Master's at Oxford/Cambridge; funding indeterminate

[sat0ri]

So I've been accepted to master's degree programs at Oxford and Cambridge (UK) but, as an international (USA) student, these degrees come with hefty price tags. They amount to $35,000 (USD) for the year, plus whatever living allowance (fairly comparable with US cost of living, 12-18K). The UK academic year starts in October which has all sorts of corollaries, chiefly that (1) it will significantly change how I approach the timeline of the med school application cycle (2) internal/institutional funding schemes are still indeterminate. Since, I don't have the luxury of waiting and see what comes of funding--as I need to start putting personal statements, MCAT, etc. into gear for this cycle--my main question is whether it would be worth taking out a loan for ~35K to study abroad.

So a quick profile of me: Would be applying this cycle (2016-2017) US MD/DO (possibly MD-PhD, whole 'nother can of worms). 3.8-3.9/4.0 GPA. Very strong research (multiple pubs/presentations; summa thesis). No MCAT, as previously said, but I'm practicing in top percentiles (attributable to good undergrad preparation). Strong-Exceptional volunteerism/altruism and clincal exposure; moderate-strong leadership.. Some potential red flags (e.g., high school expulsion). Already have taken 1.5 year gap years in a clinical as well as research job.

If I received a full-ride to either of the schools, it would be a no-brainer (I would go); however, funding is not released until May-June (approximately) and I really need to have my MCAT taken and personal statement written at that point if I decide to not go abroad and in fact apply this cycle. So basically, I need to chose one path or the other ASAP with incomplete information, and I need to know whether a student loan would be worth it. If no: prepare for the worst (no funding) and prepare to apply. If yes: take it easy on the MCAT/personal statement writing since I will be applying a year from now.

To summarize, I've been told don't go to grad school unless there is funding (guaranteed), so I'm think in my head I know I shouldn't, but I'm beginning to rationalize, so I'm here for a reality check.

Some pro's and con's (and fugitive thoughts) that have been bouncing in my head:

PROS:

• Many undergrad degrees result in more debt than this, so maybe 35K in debt isn't really that bad in the grand scheme of things
  
• I'm a high school drop out (really turned it around at uni though) so the "name recognition" factor might be more relevant in my cases (I think name recognition of top schools tends to be a bit overblown, but it my case it might show me as a vetted candidate that was otherwise questionable).
  
• Research experience will be great, and professor suggested the project we submitted will likely be impactful (read: good journal publication).
  
• I applied to schools abroad for unique and inspiring experiences, so this would be an unforgettable personal experience (forget as an applicant). This will also be a new culture and force me to grow.
• Time. Time to collect myself, enjoy life (by studying... I know), time to further prepare personal statement and really ace the MCAT.
  
• Possibly unique "hook" since so med school hopefuls are all stellar students by conventional standards,

CONS:

• Most obviously, the money (35K) and more specifically the value. Again, I've heard what these degrees offer just is not worth that amount of money.
  
• If I'm not accepted to medical school (entirely possible), then financial solvency will be a problem
• Med schools might misconstrue my intentions, both on the level of my commitment to medicine or see it is a vainglory.
  
• Time. Given that the year concludes/commences in October I would certainly need to take another as deferral would be impossible. (I'm guessing applying while I'm abroad would also be a nightmare, precluding the "just do both solution").

On other small wrinkle, I'm in the final rounds for a Fulbright scholarship to Cambridge. One of the most competitive scholarships, but for OxBridge hopefuls, it only covers ~12K (i.e., bare minimum living expenses). I'm not sure if this would change things.

I'm very bad at being brief--sorry for the gargantuan post... I highly value the SDN community and any opinions.

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[thatwouldbeanarchy]

I think you really need to decide what your priorities are right now. Medical school or a Master's degree and time abroad. If the answer is Master's, that's totally fine. I'm a huge advocate for taking time off before medical school to do whatever, travel, do research, have fun, explore other academic interests.

But it sounds like you're already on the right track as far as your application goes. (It's hard to say that for sure without an MCAT score but you have a high GPA and it sounds like you'll have good ECs as well.) I really can't imagine this Master's adding anything to your application that you don't already have. And again, that's not necessarily a reason not to do it.

But personally, if it were me, I wouldn't take out 35K in private loans for a degree that probably won't make a significant difference in my MD prospects. Especially if you're considering applying MD/PhD, this seems like an epic waste of money. As someone who has a totally unreasonable amount of private loans, I would avoid going down that road, if at all possible. Keep in mind that these loans will just be chillin' and accruing interest for at least 4 years of medical school. I would skip the Master's and instead focus on crushing the MCAT. (And treat yourself to a trip to Europe once you get accepted.) You can always apply to dual degree programs and save yourself the time and money!

 

[eteshoe]

Hey there congrats on this opportunity. I just wanted to say first off that I don't think things from your high school days will play any real factor into your applications (except criminal convictions). I have to agree that getting a masters is usually not worth it if it's not being funded (I did my MSc due to it being funded), more so in your case since you have demonstrated a strong scholastic aptitude (i.e. strong UG GPA). Though if it does come through, that would be a good enough opportunity to delay med school for a bit.

I don't know how far you are with your MCAT studying but I would advice that you do not rush and fall short of a strong score. You seem fairly young, so taking a few yrs off won't work against you (I had 4yrs off between UG and Med school due to working + MSc). Applying abroad, while not ideal, is possible especially if you pre-write your secondaries, PS, etc (search SDN).

More than anything I will say a strong MCAT with your profile will go a very long way - another yr delay will not hurt you so pace your efforts.

 

[vk77]

It completely depends on how you think the master(s) programs you got into will be useful to your interests in the future, and it depends on how strong you think your application is today. I am doing something quite similar this year, and I applied to medical schools this cycle, while abroad in the UK getting a master's degree. Despite what the conventional wisdom is here on SDN, I thought that 1.) the experience has given me a strong sense of direction on where to take my medical career, and 2.) really helped me punch above my weight based on numbers alone to get me interviews and offers at a few unexpected places. Virtually every physician or dean I interviewed with was very impressed with my program, and I'm sure this would be the case with a school like Oxford or Cambridge. FWIW, my LizzyM was 71, and I got interviews at two top-ten programs, as well as a few schools often regarded as "low-yield," among some other programs. I also have been accepted to two programs, one of which was my top-choice, and plan to matriculate there in August.

If I were you, I'd definitely go for this opportunity. You'll likely never have a chance again in your life to study at a place like Oxford or Cambridge, and to rub shoulders with some incredibly smart people outside of the field of medicine, which will be invaluable to broadening your horizons and lending yourself some perspectives on medicine that may not be intuitive to a physician. Medicine needs out-of-the-box, multidisciplinary thinkers with diverse skill-sets, which you have a chance to acquire with an outside master's. Studying in the UK as a graduate student is also a compelling enough reason alone to take advantage of an opportunity like that. Applying while abroad was definitely challenging, and stressful in its own right, but I'm really glad I did it. It was worth saving an entire year of my life in exchange for navigating some logistical issues and fighting through some jetlag on interview days.

 

[Tots]

YOLO I say do it. Alternatively you can apply to medical school now and then break after third year to go to the UK for a 1 year masters if it seems to fit in your timeline/interests/finances. <-- I am going to LSHTM next year between 3rd year/4th year.

 

[alpinism]

If you don't mind shelling out the cash and living abroad for a year then by all means do the masters.

Just know that it will help very little for med school apps as most schools only care about undergrad GPA and MCAT scores. You'll be doing it for the experience and not for the application boost. The one exception would be if you can get a substantial research project done during the year. In that case you could potentially boost your app at more research oriented schools. FWIW I studied abroad at Oxford for a semester and loved it over there. IMO its well worth it despite the cost.

 

[vk77]

Most of the questions on SDN about masters degrees usually concern GPA as in will a good masters make up for a mediocre UG GPA. This poster is obviously in a much different situation and was really looking at the funding issue and the timing for medical school. Completion of a masters itself (not as a GPA repair tool) is always an accomplishment that can be shown on an application to medical school. For those looking in top schools, research-heavy careers,or academic medicine, a top flight masters can be an outstanding accomplishment and have great impact to acceptance to medical school. Looking at acceptance stats at a few of the Ivy league med schools, seem to have 30% or more of matriculants with advanced degrees.

I certainly agree with your post, and that more experienced minds in medical school admissions, such as yourself, appreciate the value of a strong master's degree in a field complementary to medicine. However, even in the responses to this thread alone (I've also seen a number of others), I think there is a strong tendency within the SDN community to conflate "special master's degree programs" and master's degree programs that are competitive to gain admission to, and job-qualifying in their own right, as well as to downplay the impact of unique experiences such as a master's program abroad at Oxford or Cambridge. I won't profess to being a guru of medical school admissions by any means, but if my experiences from the interview trail and conversations with healthcare professionals this year are indicative of anything, it's that there is a visceral need for people literate in medicine to sculpt its future, through approaches that can be readily acquired from unique and diverse experiences.

OP, the questions in this thread remind me a lot of an article by Dr. Sachin Jain I read a few months back. He talks about the need for more medical minds in delivery science, but I think the argument is applicable to virtually any topic related to medicine as a whole. Again, I'm sure a master's at Oxford or Cambridge will help your chances if the rest of your application is strong, but you really should do it because of the motivations described in articles like these IMO.

 

[crunchywhit]

I am applying during a stint at Oxford (postdoc though, not seeking a degree).

I do not believe that the Oxford "brand" had tangible benefits during my admissions process. That may not reflect accurately on your experience.

You are underestimating the cost of living in one of the most expensive cities in Europe. You don't consider the cost of visas, etc.

It would be a nice experience but IMHO absolutely not worth the expense or the necessary deferral of matriculation into medical school.

I was enamored with Oxford but after living there for a while I realized that it was not a smart decision financially, and that scientifically I could have been just as successful and much happier at a top US department.

You are competitive for admission without this experience. Do you want to be a doctor? If I were you I would focus on that endeavor.

Caveat - if you are considering MD/PhD perhaps this has value. I completed my PhD prior to med school applications so I literally know nothing about that process. I will defer to the wise people on this board

Last note ... Cambridge is a less expensive, nicer city than Oxford IMHO.

Feel free to PM regardless if you decide on the UK and I can tell you what I know regarding logistics.

 

[TheOneAndOnlyJamesFranco]

I do not mean to hijack this thread in anyway, but I believe my dilemma is very similar and will help OP from a new perspective.

I am applying this spring with a LizzyM of ~70 (took new+oldMCAT) and have 2 pubs, 1 honors thesis, and am on Gap year 1 volunteering abroad as a music therapist for a patient population that I have extensive experience with.

I also did the whole fulbright/gates-cambridge/Marshall thing, and although was unsuccessful, I am sitting on an offer to study Medical Humanities (MSc) at prestigious university in London.

My dilemma is this, I could do more research (specifically clinical because I have yet to try it) which won't really help my application but I think will help me bolster research skills, stay scientifically sharp, and potentially help me establish connections for during medical school?

OR

I can go to London and study something entirely different, probably help me in some mystical way when I am a physician and basically really enjoy my year while trying to dabble in some research abroad. However, having spent a year abroad, I am concerned that the connections I make will fail to have longevity. The bright side, however, is that this opportunity may provide my application with a bit more "flair" and help me in the current cycle, while an extra year of research may not.

I do not wish to come off blasé or conniving as I would equally enjoy both, I just feel a little conflicted personally and professionally. I am desperately seeking some advice as a deposit deadline is within weeks, and we can, for now, leave discussion of money off the table!

Thanks guys!

Most of the questions on SDN about masters degrees usually concern GPA as in will a good masters make up for a mediocre UG GPA. This poster is obviously in a much different situation and was really looking at the funding issue and the timing for medical school. Completion of a masters itself (not as a GPA repair tool) is always an accomplishment that can be shown on an application to medical school. For those looking in top schools, research-heavy careers,or academic medicine, a top flight masters can be an outstanding accomplishment and have great impact to acceptance to medical school. Looking at acceptance stats at a few of the Ivy league med schools, seem to have 30% or more of matriculants with advanced degrees.

I certainly agree with your post, and that more experienced minds in medical school admissions, such as yourself, appreciate the value of a strong master's degree in a field complementary to medicine. However, even in the responses to this thread alone (I've also seen a number of others), I think there is a strong tendency within the SDN community to conflate "special master's degree programs" and master's degree programs that are competitive to gain admission to, and job-qualifying in their own right, as well as to downplay the impact of unique experiences such as a master's program abroad at Oxford or Cambridge. I won't profess to being a guru of medical school admissions by any means, but if my experiences from the interview trail and conversations with healthcare professionals this year are indicative of anything, it's that there is a visceral need for people literate in medicine to sculpt its future, through approaches that can be readily acquired from unique and diverse experiences.

OP, the questions in this thread remind me a lot of an article by Dr. Sachin Jain I read a few months back. He talks about the need for more medical minds in delivery science, but I think the argument is applicable to virtually any topic related to medicine as a whole. Again, I'm sure a master's at Oxford or Cambridge will help your chances if the rest of your application is strong, but you really should do it because of the motivations described in articles like these IMO.

I am applying during a stint at Oxford (postdoc though, not seeking a degree).

I do not believe that the Oxford "brand" had tangible benefits during my admissions process. That may not reflect accurately on your experience.

You are underestimating the cost of living in one of the most expensive cities in Europe. You don't consider the cost of visas, etc.

It would be a nice experience but IMHO absolutely not worth the expense or the necessary deferral of matriculation into medical school.

I was enamored with Oxford but after living there for a while I realized that it was not a smart decision financially, and that scientifically I could have been just as successful and much happier at a top US department.

You are competitive for admission without this experience. Do you want to be a doctor? If I were you I would focus on that endeavor.

Caveat - if you are considering MD/PhD perhaps this has value. I completed my PhD prior to med school applications so I literally know nothing about that process. I will defer to the wise people on this board

Last note ... Cambridge is a less expensive, nicer city than Oxford IMHO.

Feel free to PM regardless if you decide on the UK and I can tell you what I know regarding logistics.

 

[aldol16]

Hey, sorry to necrobump, but for the people who were considering the Masters - what did you end up doing? I'm sitting on an offer of admission and am awaiting funding decisions but obviously the chances that I get a significant portion paid for is very very slim.

If you are waiting for funding from a competitive international scholarship (Gates, Marshall, Fulbright, Rhodes (already announced)), then these will release decisions before you have to apply to med school. If you're waiting on internal funding from the universities themselves, know that overseas funding is very limited - especially for those pursuing MPhil courses and not a doctoral course. So if you haven't heard about funding when the AMCAS opens for submission, you should probably submit the AMCAS and not worry about attending the UK universities.

You should never, in my opinion, take out a loan to go get a master's in the UK. That master's will mean very little and will not qualify you for much more than what your bachelor's already qualifies you for. It is, in my opinion, a waste of money and unless you have money to spare (and waste), it's not worth it. Start thinking about alternatives for your gap year(s). Apply to research positions in the states and start interviewing for them in the early spring. And jobs as well.

 

[Lucca]

If you want to do research the NIH IRTA and Predoctoral fellowships at either the NIH or through the extramural programs are the best bet. Training that you get paid for. Don't pay for a Masters degree.

 

[Lucca]

Yeah I'm still waiting to hear back from a competitive fellowship, but since these scholarships are so competitive, I'm trying to make the decision of whether I would consider going without funding. The Masters I applied to is related to the medical humanities and it's sort of uncannily perfect for where I feel I'm at, intellectually. I would be taking courses and doing some research, ultimately ending in a dissertation on the philosophy of medicine. Would this qualify me to do some basic teaching of bioethics if I go into academic medicine (it's not an MA in Bioethics, but still a Masters in a related field)?

I'm already planning on taking a gap year and otherwise would probably just continue doing research with the same PI I've been working with for the past three years. My stats are solid (LM ~80) and I don't think my ECs will be deficient in any area by the end of this academic year, so I was thinking why not go to the UK and study something I'm really interested in right now and also have the opportunity to experience a different country/culture and do some traveling?

My parents have mentioned that if I can secure any amount of funding they'd be willing to loan me the rest of the money (at no interest). Idk I've been juggling these pros and cons up and down for a while now, maybe a little neurotic since I haven't even heard back from funding yet, but still...

Which are you applying to right now? I ask because I am waiting to hear back from one of OxCam as well

 

[Lucca]

Gates You wouldn't go if you don't get the funding?

That's right. It's a great experience so if I was in your situation I may consider it (parents paying off part) but otherwise I am planning on staying in the US for my gap year.