Master's degree on your white coat?

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I've noticed a strange trend in hospitals recently, and I'm not sure if it's a new thing or I've not been paying attention.

I've seen a fair few doctors walking around hospitals (both academic and not) with an alphabet soup after their MD/DO title.

I'm not talking about a PhD or membership to legitimate organizations, like FACEP, etc. I am referring to master's degrees of all sorts, mostly MS, but also strangely MA and MBA. This is especially frustrating because I was a paramedic/nurse for years, and I've argued with young pre-meds that such a practice is frowned on in medicine, that other doctors/nurses would think it ridiculous.

As an incoming first year medical student, may I ask the experienced docs out there: for a physician, what academic credentials are acceptable to put after your medical degree (eg MD/DO) on your white coat, and/or business cards/desk (if you have them)?

I myself have several masters degrees because, well, I'm a complete idiot and didn't know what I wanted to do in my 20s. But what possible use could there be in adding my MS in biomedical engineering to my coat? I would never think to put anything except maybe the MPH.

I haven't had the courage to ask one of the offending doctors about this, but a lot of premeds say that they worked hard for their MS/MA/MSc/MFA, etc. and they're going to show it off and be proud no matter what anyone thinks, god damn it. Perhaps that's what the doctors I've seen think too. But is that the point of a white coat? To show off your accomplishments? I thought it was supposed to inspire confidence in your patients. If I was a patient at the local hospital and my doctor had a master's degree on his/her coat, I would think (a) why is a psych resident seeing me?, and (b) can you send the Professor away so I can be seen by someone who's not an academic and knows medicine? And if it was an MBA on their coat...wow.

Or is this just me?

Is there some sort of official or unofficial code when it comes to this sort of thing? Am I wrong for thinking these doctors are narcissistic?

Thanks!
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Why stop with Master's? Since some nurses go ahead and slap on "BSN", why can't I put on "BSB" (bachelors science biology)

LOL.

The thing about credentials is that it's an arms race. If some people starts padding their credential list with lesser accomplishments, everyone else has to do it. That's the reason pre-meds try to fill up every blank on the part of the med school application where ECs go.

I say look around, if your peers where you work are adding on master's degrees, you might as well do the same.
 
iloveDrStill said:
I've noticed a strange trend in hospitals recently, and I'm not sure if it's a new thing or I've not been paying attention.

I've seen a fair few doctors walking around hospitals (both academic and not) with an alphabet soup after their MD/DO title.

As an incoming first year medical student, may I ask the experienced docs out there: for a physician, what academic credentials are acceptable to put after your medical degree (eg MD/DO) on your white coat, and/or business cards/desk (if you have them)?

I myself have several masters degrees because, well, I'm a complete idiot and didn't know what I wanted to do in my 20s. But what possible use could there be in adding my MS in biomedical engineering to my coat? I would never think to put anything except maybe the MPH.

Or is this just me?

Is there some sort of official or unofficial code when it comes to this sort of thing? Am I wrong for thinking these doctors are narcissistic?
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I haven't seen too many (maybe 1 or 2) master's degree on the white coat, except the MPH as I can see that a physician would want students/residents to know about this degree, in terms of public health and stuff. Most patients really don't care too much about the extra degrees and generally regard physicians as having a lot of education, except maybe FACEP or if they have a little bit of knowledge about the various degrees in medicine.

I think a PhD is OK, as the degree implies a lot of hard work for a thesis. Honestly, when I have seen an "M.A." degree it looked like the person wearring the coat was insecure, as there are a lot of medical students who pursued master's degrees, and it isn't anywhere nearly as rigorous or hard as medical school AND if not an MPH, it is hard to see how it would apply to patient care and I generally get the feeling that people who put this on their coats sort of want to be seen as a doctor with extra training, strictly true, but it could be a master's degree in french literature, which doesn't enhance a person's standing as physician IMHO.

I think multiple master's looks bad unfortunately, (although I would love to have an MPH or masters in ID), because it looks like the person couldn't get into medical school or was unclear about their direction in life and got into some easy master's programs and was a professional student. I think a plain M.D. wins as it shows you are more narrowly focused. A lot of people might listing the multiple masters as a form of intimidating others to show how smart you are. . .

A lot of MPH don't put it on their lab coat, I think because they want to be seen as a real M.D., and don't necessarily want to be seen as soft or something . . .
 
People don't even read your white coat.
As far as being degree ****** and putting a lot of stuff on the white coat, I could care less about what other people do. In my experience it is usually the nurse practitioners who have the most initials, etc. on their white coats, not the physicians. I've never seen a physician with more than 2 degrees/initials on the white coat.

Personally, I would only put an MPH, PhD or other medically related degree . FYI there are a lot of structured master's programs in clinical research, aimed at practicing physicians and medical fellows, that are MS degrees and would be appropriate to put on the white coat if desired, IMHO. Personally, if I had an MFA or MA in English or something, I wouldn't put it on my white coat, but there's nothing inherently wrong with it, I guess. I've never seen a physician who put a non medically related degree on the white coat.
 
I will respectfully disagree with dragonfly99, and say that some folks DO read your white coat. (If no one ever did, we wouldn't be having this discussion.)

Like it or not, manner of dress (including degrees on your coat) implies a lot about you to those you come in contact with. If it makes you uncomfortable, don't do it. If you see no reason for it to make you feel uncomfortable, then do it.
 
Dr Magpie said:
I will respectfully disagree with dragonfly99, and say that some folks DO read your white coat. (If no one ever did, we wouldn't be having this discussion.)

Like it or not, manner of dress (including degrees on your coat) implies a lot about you to those you come in contact with. If it makes you uncomfortable, don't do it. If you see no reason for it to make you feel uncomfortable, then do it.
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People may "read" the initials or whatever extra education you have, but I am sure I have forgotten 90% of them, unless one also did research or something. I think dragonfly meant that there are many more important things that the number of letters you have after your name, and in a hospital the most important "badge" is your name as an attending as all the residents/students know who the good ones are.

I have seen a cardiologist who dressed very oddly, people almost smirked, but patients loved him and he was regarded as the best adult cardiologist in the hospital. It matters when residents don't dress "right", attendings and fellow residents do notice, but attendings are a different story . . . sometimes I have seen female attendings wear clothes that would be called inappropriate on female residents, but if they are the big cheese then they *may* wear high heels and show too much cleavage (compared to a resident), if they are good then everybody respects them.
 
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I'm just offering an opinion, but I'd only put my terminal degree, MD/DO, then *one* other degree if it was medically-related - MPH, PhD, DDS, DMD. If I wanted to have something like FACEP embroidered, I'd just have my terminal degree and college fellowship. Nothing worse than having more letters than the nurse practitioner on your coat.
 
Dr Magpie said:
I will respectfully disagree with dragonfly99, and say that some folks DO read your white coat. (If no one ever did, we wouldn't be having this discussion.)
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There are people who read your coat. The other doctors/nurses/hospital staff.
It's a way for people in academics to show off to one another, and if you ask me, sort of pathetic if the degrees aren't medically related. Maybe I'll get my board scores, GPA and the titles of all of my publications embroidered on my jacket when I'm a doc...


I'm willing to bet that 95% of patients don't care.
 
Eh, if you just want to identify your position in a professional capacity, I see no issue with that. However, one thing I've noticed in pediatrics is that credentials will only get you so far, what the parents really want to see is some grey hair. Somehow, having the elderly resp tech repeat what I just said puts them at ease. Human nature, I guess.

One thing I do take issue with is the superfluous use of credentials in a nonprofessional capacity. Like this one guy who would sign his personal emails with "John Doe, EMT". Seriously. Or people who sign their grocery receipts with the "MD".

You know what I say to that? Douchebag.
 
oompaloompa said:
Like this one guy who would sign his personal emails with "John Doe, EMT". Seriously. Or people who sign their grocery receipts with the "MD".

You know what I say to that? Douchebag.
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Hahahahaha, do you really know people like that? I would pay money to laugh at that person. I go out of my way to hide my credentials from people.

An MPH has a well-developed precedent for being including. PhD, JD, or other doctoral-equivalent on a white coat seems reasonable to me. Apart from that, I'm wholly unimpressed. It just seems like hubris to me. That MS or MBA and 85 cents will get you a cup of coffee.
 
oompaloompa said:
One thing I do take issue with is the superfluous use of credentials in a nonprofessional capacity. Like this one guy who would sign his personal emails with "John Doe, EMT". Seriously. Or people who sign their grocery receipts with the "MD".

You know what I say to that? Douchebag.
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Laugh out loud, I guess what I'm trying to say is that master's degrees in a clinical setting (save for the MPH) is superfluous...it doesn't seem to add anything. And I would imagine those same people would be the ones signing their grocery list with their credentials

Also, I think people do read your coat...I can't be the only one who does. And I do think that professional presentation means a lot. To
DarthNeurology, certainly you would never recommend that a doctor dress like a prostitute. As you said, you'd have to be a pretty good doctor to compensate for that.

I appreciate that people will be more concerned with your skills as a physician. I wasn't implying that these people don't have skills, I was just curious what mainstream attitudes were regarding MS, MA and MBA after your MD/DO title.

Thank you for all your opinions!
 
At many academic medical centers, it is expected that one who is interested in clinical research will complete an MS in clinical investigation (NOT an MPH...at least @my academic medical center, where the MPH is a weak degree), so I think that would be totally appropriate to have on the white coat. Depending on the institution/med center, the MPH or MS may be pursued as the terminal degree for a fellow or junior faculty member interested in clinical research.
 
I think that the MD is a fairly weak degree that should be left off

(<---graduating in 3 wks :laugh:)
 
"As the number of letters behind a physicians name increases on his/her white coat, their ability to take proper care of a patient decreases."

Panda Bear MD

This is an exponential relationship for N.Ps :laugh:
 
wow the MD section is hilarious. im getting the impression most of you have a God complex. is this something they teach in med school?
 
Acceptable: MPH, JD, PhD

With the exception of the MPH anything you got in less than 2 years should be on your CV but not your white coat. I think some of that crap RNs put on their coats are like weekend certification courses.


Amory Blaine, BA. MD. ACLS. PALS. ATLS.
 
MD, DO, PhD, JD would be all acceptable. However I have issues with people throwing around an MPH while not accepting MBA, MS, etc. Some are able to obtain their MPH in a year's time while the MS/MBA may take 2 years depending on which program you go to. A few of my friends went the MPH route prior to coming to medical school and have no desire to do public health but is socially acceptable in the medical circles for it to be more acceptable than an MBA, or an MS. I think just end it with the MD if you don't have a JD/PhD after it. Even FACEP, FACP, etc are jokes. Leave it on your business card but off the white coat. Patients are confused enough as it is
 
AmoryBlaine said:
Acceptable: MPH, JD, PhD

With the exception of the MPH anything you got in less than 2 years should be on your CV but not your white coat. I think some of that crap RNs put on their coats are like weekend certification courses.


Amory Blaine, BA. MD. ACLS. PALS. ATLS.
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Speaking from the lawyer side I actually don't think a JD has any business being on a white coat.
 
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Law2Doc said:
Speaking from the lawyer side I actually don't think a JD has any business being on a white coat.
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Unless you want patients to hate you, leave the JD on your wall.
 
AmoryBlaine said:
Acceptable: MPH, JD, PhD

With the exception of the MPH anything you got in less than 2 years should be on your CV but not your white coat. I think some of that crap RNs put on their coats are like weekend certification courses.


Amory Blaine, BA. MD. ACLS. PALS. ATLS.
Click to expand...

Why stop there. We shouldn't be satisfied until the credentials creep down our sleeves. Patients need to know that we have ACLS, PALS, ATLS, EMT, Watch Opera, Blood Donor, HS Diploma, Wipe my own butt, Sam's Club Member training. They just neeeed to know this!

I have personally only seen MPH and PHD after a physicians name. As someone who will graduate with a dual degree I don't think I would put the MPH after my name. When I saw it on a white coat the only thought that came to my mind was: Who cares?
 
Jamers said:
Why stop there. We shouldn't be satisfied until the credentials creep down our sleeves. Patients need to know that we have ACLS, PALS, ATLS, EMT, Watch Opera, Blood Donor, HS Diploma, Wipe my own butt, Sam's Club Member training. They just neeeed to know this!

I have personally only seen MPH and PHD after a physicians name. As someone who will graduate with a dual degree I don't think I would put the MPH after my name. When I saw it on a white coat the only thought that came to my mind was: Who cares?
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It's in your .sig. You must care.
 
Just go with the MD, anything else is irrelevant to your patients.

If someone wants to review your credentials it is easy enough to find this information on line, in this setting it is appropriate to list your PhD, college membership, publications, etc. Your clinical colleagues will know your background if it matters to them. In the patient encounter all that matters is that you are properly identified as the decision maker; this is most efficiently accomplished by having your name followed by MD.

MD,PhD on the coat is meaningless imo. I knew a guy with a PhD in English who did this. The majority of MD/PhD’s are FMGs who did a PhD to get into medical school, not MSTPs, so you are not necessarily communicating your elite status by listing both degrees (in fact many will assume you are an FMG).
 
tkim said:
It's in your .sig. You must care.
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This is SDN, not my white coat. Here, people may give a crap and want advice on dual degree/MPH. In the clinic, all they care is that I know what I am doing with their care.
 
Jamers said:
This is SDN, not my white coat. Here, people may give a crap and want advice on dual degree/MPH. In the clinic, all they care is that I know what I am doing with their care.
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That may be a rationale if they seek you out because of your sig, but wouldn't it be easier simply to see the threads that ask about MPH and post there?
 
tkim said:
That may be a rationale if they seek you out because of your sig, but wouldn't it be easier simply to see the threads that ask about MPH and post there?
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It could or they could just as simply come across my name on the forums I type on and get curious. Isn't that the point of this website: a place for those curious about fields of medicine to come and be informed? Am I not helping in that capacity? A white coat I wear to the hospital and a website I visit are hardly the same thing, sorry. But this is all for moot, I think the two of us have hijacked this thread and taken away from its original purpose. In the end, I will keep my MPH on SDN so that those who come across my name and are curious can ask (which has happened) and off my white coat where it will not affect how I treat my patients.
 
Jamers said:
It could or they could just as simply come across my name on the forums I type on and get curious. Isn't that the point of this website: a place for those curious about fields of medicine to come and be informed? Am I not helping in that capacity? A white coat I wear to the hospital and a website I visit are hardly the same thing, sorry. But this is all for moot, I think the two of us have hijacked this thread and taken away from its original purpose. In the end, I will keep my MPH on SDN so that those who come across my name and are curious can ask (which has happened) and off my white coat where it will not affect how I treat my patients.
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Okay.
 
Gyric said:
The majority of MD/PhD's are FMGs who did a PhD to get into medical school, not MSTPs, so you are not necessarily communicating your elite status by listing both degrees (in fact many will assume you are an FMG).
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I had no idea this was the case. Do others agree?

Also, in regard to NPs (who I have nothing against)- Isn't the issue with them is that their credentials are 'enhanced' with lower degrees, such as bachelor's and certificate programs?

Thanks for all your responses!
 
iloveDrStill said:
I had no idea this was the case. Do others agree?

Also, in regard to NPs (who I have nothing against)- Isn't the issue with them is that their credentials are 'enhanced' with lower degrees, such as bachelor's and certificate programs?

Thanks for all your responses!
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I disagree as well; gyrics experience is definitely unusual. The vast majority of MD/PhDs are those who either completed a combined program or took time off during medical school to get the PhD.

Now, there are some PhDs, MDs, and some of these may be FMGs, but it represents a very small proportion of the applicant pool.
 
Gyric said:
Just go with the MD, anything else is irrelevant to your patients.
Click to expand...

Best advice in this whole thread!

further a real MD (not a DO or DNP)!!!!
 
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