Master's degree prior to admission?

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necta

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Hi everyone, this is my first time posting on SDN so I don't know what to expect but here's my question.
My undergrad GPA is horrible, and I don't mean in the lower 3.0s, it's in the lower 2.0s. However, I do have a great desire to get into med-school and think that I have plenty of other credentials to support my desire. Lately I have thought of starting a graduate program to add something good to my application and have something to fall back on in case things don't work out. Is there a preference for a particular degree that would be impressive and what do schools think of online degrees? I have been considering Public Health Administration, Masters of Public Health, and some Psychology M.S.'s. Please reply with any comments and/or suggestions. Thanks a lot!

I would also like to add that I am planning on taking a post-bac pre-med program somewhere along the way....

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With an undergraduate GPA in the low 2.0's it is very unlikely that you would be accepted to a medical school in the U.S. Unfortunately, the standard application used for medical schools does not combine graduate and undergraduate classes. Many medical schools screen applicants using overall undergraduate GPA, science undergradaute GPA, and MCAT scores and little emphasis is placed on graduate GPA.

It might be best to take upper level science undergraduate courses; enough to improve your undergraduate GPA to the acceptable range (above 3.0). Even at this level, admission to medical school can be difficult. A masters degree in public health, psychology, or public administration are nice to have but would not overshadow your poor undergraduate GPA.
 
Thanks for the reply MPP! I forgot to add that I will be doing a post-bac pre-med program to highly improve my sciences grades....
 
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First, where theres a will..theres a way....dont ever take "NO" for an answer. If your undergrad grades suck, think about taking some of the courses over again (or enroll in a post-bacc program and kick ass).

In terms of grad work, I would recommend you prove yourself academically in the hardcore sciences (ie..physio, biochem, mol.bio, etc)...most of the classes a first year med student would take. A Masters in the sciences will hold more weight with the adcoms (even though the degree itself can be quite useless in and of itself). Masters in public health (provides many opportunities for you as a physician)is a very useful degree, however, it doesnt really prove that you can handle med school material as most of the public health classes arent as demanding academically. Since in your situation your GPA kinda stinks (no hard feelings), i would recommend you raise it as much as possible by taking your undergrad sciences over again and then perhaps taking grad level sciences...whether its in a structured Masters program (usually 2 years..with some exceptions..G'town) or on your own.

Third, make sure you study hard for the MCAT (practice, practice, practice) and do as well as you can.

In conclusion, it will take alot of work (ALOT) but I will never say "unlikely" or even worse.. "impossible" to get in to a US med school. Good luck...you CAN do it... :)

DOCTORSAIB
 
Hi! If you really want the MPH or the MHA and think that you would try to go back to school to get it after you completed your MD/DO degree, then go ahead and do it. If you don't really want it, then you should probably get a Masters degree in the sciences.
Also, if you haven't had any science courses yet, then I would think that you still have a good chance.
 
mpp is right, nicely put. you will need high MCATs, to retake courses that you did badly in, some killer extracurriculars, time off, great letters of rec, awesome graduate level work (why do the post bac med thing....very expensive, getting an additional degree that is worth something as a fall back is probably better. we all know that medical post bac programs are fluff masters degrees that mean nothing!), good personal statement, etc. and then you have to pick med schools to apply to that are more forgiving. good luck!
 
Thank you ALL very much for providing such good and inspiring replies....
 
I think the post-bach will be crucial. Your science GPA will be very important. Also, the post-bach courses can be included into you undergrad GPA, which is what schools use to make the cut-offs. You're going to have to do very well though, so there will be little room for slacking.
As for the grad degree, it may help some. It won't help initially, since schools use your undergrad GPA and MCAT to decide on who to interview. At the interviewing stage though, the grad degree might be helpful.
I was in a similar situation, in that my undergrad GPA is lower than most, and I have a MS. I managed to get one acceptance, so I would say you can do it. I couldn't take a post-bach, so you have an advantage there.
Good luck and hang in there.
 
FIRST, THROW OUT WHAT MPP SAID AND FORGET IT. IT IS LIKELY THAT IF YOU REALLY WANT TO GET INTO MEDICAL SCHOOL AND ARE WILLING TO FIGHT FOR IT, YOU WILL GET IN. IT WON'T BE HARVARD, BUT ANY SCHOOL ACCREDITED WILL TRAIN YOU WELL. Opps, caps lock on! Sorry.

DO well in the Post Bacc segment and keep the Sci GPA up around 3.3-3.5ish. These are just random numbers but they come from talking with ACTUAL Admissions Deans from the OPM convention and not pulling numbers out of my @$$. Second, if you do a graduate program, consider one that is attached to an actual medical school so you can network and make in roads early. That really helps. Letting a school know that you are seriously interested in them and are set to succeed will really help.

I know someone who got in with a 1.25 UGrad GPA, so throw all that other crap out of the window. The others don't know what they are talking about quite frankly. His final Ugrad GPA after taking a Neuroscience bachelors was a whopping 2.5. GO figure.

You can do it, just tone out the nay sayers. They just want to kill competition or feel that the way they did it is the only way.
 
Sorry, I have to chime in here. I was just accepted off the waitlist at Cincinnati with a 2.5 ugrad gpa (2.3 science). I did do a one year masters program in anatomy and finished with a 3.8, but it is obviously possible to get in after a less than stellar start.

Jayme
 
I'm currently in a Masters program and have been following these exact debates for the past year. What you'll find Vokamis is that for every person who "knows" someone who didn't get in with a MS (and low Undergrad GPA) there is another who knows someone who did. And the admissions "experts" are just as equally divided on the issue.

In my case I met with a local Med School Adcom and discussed my past/options. In the end I signed up for my Masters program. And I also know someone who had a low undergrad, went back to get his MS and a year later was accepted to Med School. Like I said the opinions and examples are endless and everyone thinks they're an expert.

So here's the bottom line.
#1 pick a program and get A's. Not B's and B+'s, but A's. The fact is you (and I) have to do some serious make-up work and have some proving to do.

#2 Take only "hardcore" science courses. If you're in a Masters program you have to take seminar credits and such, but don't take any fluff science. They won't mean anything to Adcoms.

#3 Apply to a wide range of Med Schools. Inclued ALL of your state schools and some DO schools.

#4 And this is just as important as getting A's. Do well on the MCAT. You "must" get above a 30. No pressure :) :)

Hope this helps.

PS: you can use the search function and read past graduate/masters posts all day long if you like.
 
Also, after you kick ass in your post bacc classes you might want to check out the Georgetown SMP Masters Program. In my opinion, it's the best masters program for people who had low UGrad grades, because you take classes alongside of medical students...what better way to prove yourself. Downside: very expensive.

<a href="http://www.go.to/physio" target="_blank">http://www.go.to/physio</a>
 
WOW! My hopes are rising from all your replies. Thank you very much, it means A LOT to me...
 
Vokamis-- don't EVER let anyone tell you that your low ugrad GPA is going to prevent you from fulfilling your dreams. You can't change those bad grades, but I'm gonna guess that there's more to you than grades. Take hardcore science classes and do well. Get some great ECs in something you enjoy doing that is medically related, and get some diverse, non-medical ECs. Do well on the MCAT, and write a kick-ass personal statement, and get some great LORs. I'm not saying that it's going to be easy-- you've got a lot of making up to do (just being honest). But if you're really passionate about medicine, you will find a way to get there.
 
Vokamis-- don't EVER let anyone tell you that your low ugrad GPA is going to prevent you from fulfilling your dreams. You can't change those bad grades, but I'm gonna guess that there's more to you than grades. Take hardcore science classes and do well. Get some great ECs in something you enjoy doing that is medically related, and get some diverse, non-medical ECs. Do well on the MCAT, and write a kick-ass personal statement, and get some great LORs. I'm not saying that it's going to be easy-- you've got a lot of making up to do (just being honest). But if you're really passionate about medicine, you will find a way to get there.
 
•••quote:•••Originally posted by jhiratzka:
•Sorry, I have to chime in here. I was just accepted off the waitlist at Cincinnati with a 2.5 ugrad gpa (2.3 science). I did do a one year masters program in anatomy and finished with a 3.8, but it is obviously possible to get in after a less than stellar start.

Jayme•••••Hey Jayme,
What were your ECs and MCAT? In state/out?
 
everything mpp said is right on the money. mpp said that with a current UG GPA in the low 2.0s, it is very unlikely that anyone would be accepted to med school. there is no arguing with this. no one said it was impossible (for those of you who mentioned stories about people who DID get in with these stats)--just that the odds are not in your favor. anyone who would actually argue with this doesn't understand how competitive it is to get into med school.

but nowhere did mpp say that you were locked out of med school for the rest of your life, regardless of what you are currently bringing to the table. adcoms love inspirational stories of people who show dramatic improvement, so as long as you work hard to bring up that GPA (and provided the rest of your app is in order), you can do it. persistence is what matters, above all. so chase your dreams--you have nothing to lose and everything to gain.

regarding the whole masters vs undergrad/post-bacc debate, what it boils down to is that, as was mentioned earlier, masters grades are not averaged into your undergrad GPA, which is what many adcoms use to screen out applicants. you can be an amazingly stellar graduate student, but if your undergrad numbers are sub-par, many schools will simply show you the door. on the other hand, you can gain invaluable knowledge and experience with a graduate degree and you walk away with it with something tangible, in the event that you don't get into med school. the bottom line is that you can NEVER go wrong with a solid undergrad GPA (even if that GPA was brought up to respectable levels after you graduate from college); however, a fantastic graduate performance is only going to matter to certain schools.
 
i'm with coffeecat. i'm an exphysio from gtown (2001) and the program saved me. before the program, i had a sub 3.0 undergrad gpa w/ a 33 mcat. then i did well at gtown and improved my mcat to a 37 and got in to several schools. you just need motivation! good luck!
 
•••quote:•••Originally posted by c_redleg:
• •••quote:•••Originally posted by jhiratzka:
•Sorry, I have to chime in here. I was just accepted off the waitlist at Cincinnati with a 2.5 ugrad gpa (2.3 science). I did do a one year masters program in anatomy and finished with a 3.8, but it is obviously possible to get in after a less than stellar start.

Jayme•••••Hey Jayme,
What were your ECs and MCAT? In state/out?•••••No real spectacular EC's, I was on the football and track teams as an undergrad, no research, just pretty generic stuff, really. EMT, hospital jobs, etc. MCAT was a 33Q, out of state applicant
 
Thank you all very much for offering great advice, I truly appreciate all of it
 
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