[Masters Level Clinical Psychologist] vs [LCSW]

[VerryBerry]

It seems like a Licensed Clinical Social Worker (LCSW) has very similar capabilities as a Masters Level Clinical "Psychologist". What are the main differences though, and what are the pros and cons?

1) Time

2) Job security/Stability

3) What you can do with your masters


The question becomes:
Which one is the overall "better" job: Masters Level Clinical "Psychologist" or a Licensed Clinical Social Worker (LCSW)?

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[Therapist4Chnge]

I guess a 3rd thread was needed, as the first two threads at the top of the forum didn't sufficiently address this?

Master's Level Psychologist is a very uncommon opportunity because "Psychologist" is a protected term in the vast majority of states. The handful of "Clinical Psychology" masters programs are used as a stepping stone towards doctoral training, and not as a shortcut for someone who wants to call themselves a psychologist.

 

[cplreyes]

People with MAs in clinical psych that want to practice do so under MFTI in California. Depending on the MA program you may need additional classes. This year the Board included LPCCs in the mix. Similarly, MAs in clinical psych may practice using this designation, you may need additional classwork. The reason for additional classwork is that the Board looks for specific coursework, not simply a degree in a certain field. This also applies to MFT programs. In either case, you would not be able to practice as a psychologist unless you register with the CA Board of Psychology. The only master level psychologists are Educational Psychologists, but they have to advertise as such.

 

[cplreyes]

Do your research and compare MFTs vs LCSWs (look to my previous post for the rational in CA). The included hours in MFT/MA in clinical psych programs are misleading, because the board requires more hours for them Post Grad. So, it actually works out to the same in terms of the years that it takes to be eligible to sit for the exam.

 

[Therapist4Chnge]

People with MAs in clinical psych that want to practice do so under MFTI in California. Depending on the MA program you may need additional classes. This year the Board included LPCCs in the mix. Similarly, MAs in clinical psych may practice using this designation, you may need additional classwork. The reason for additional classwork is that the Board looks for specific coursework, not simply a degree in a certain field. This also applies to MFT programs. In either case, you would not be able to practice as a psychologist unless you register with the CA Board of Psychology. The only master level psychologists are Educational Psychologists, but they have to advertise as such.

...because the MA Clinical Psych. degree is meant as a stepping stone for students who are trying to make their application more competitive for application to doctoral programs, and not a degree for practice.

Try for a MSW or similar if you want to practice. Try for a doctoral level degree if you want to be a psychologist.

 

[VerryBerry]

T4C: Yes, I am already aware that those who pursue a Masters level can't be called a psychologist, which is why I had written that word in quotation marks.
Also, which 2 threads are you referring to? I am specifically asking about a comparison between the two, and I couldn't find that here. Maybe I missed it.

cplreyes: Thanks for your input! I noted the point about the hours of clinical work.

 

[O Gurl]

VerryBerry, if you don't mind my asking:

What is it that you want to do? Specifically? What would your dream job involve?

 

[VerryBerry]

VerryBerry, if you don't mind my asking:

What is it that you want to do? Specifically? What would your dream job involve?

Well I am interested in mental health such as eating disorders, depression, anxiety, child/marital abuse, neglect, and aging (Alzeihmer's/Dementia). I would eventually like to work at a hospital, which is why I am leaning towards the LCSW now. It doesn't seem like an occupation achieved from having a Masters in clinical psychology would provide job stability (in terms of how many jobs are available, not having to fear that you're going to get laid off, and a reasonable pay). I also have to stay in California, so it doesn't seem like the Masters in clin psych is a very smart choice, because the majority of the programs are geared towards eventually entering a PhD or PsyD program. In fact, I have not been able to find any programs that let you just stop at the Masters level (with no intention of entering a PhD/PsyD program I mean).

Also, I am not lazy or unwilling to commit to a PhD program, but I have obligations that I need to fulfill. That's why I am only looking into Master programs. I know the general consensus is that Master students are just unwilling to commit, and looking for the 'easy way out'. That's really not my case. I am genuinely interested in mental health and psychology as the subject matter. This is why I am still unsure of LCSW, since it seems like the focus is more on the outer world with a hint of the inner self.

 

[Therapist4Chnge]

Also, I am not lazy or unwilling to commit to a PhD program, but I have obligations that I need to fulfill. That's why I am only looking into Master programs. I know the general consensus is that Master students are just unwilling to commit, and looking for the 'easy way out'. That's really not my case. I am genuinely interested in mental health and psychology as the subject matter. This is why I am still unsure of LCSW, since it seems like the focus is more on the outer world with a hint of the inner self.

That's not the case at all. The vast majority of Masters-level students are hard working and pursuing their training for the right reasons. Sometimes doctoral students and doctoral professionals in the field can get irked when masters-level students assume they have the same training. The training is different...not better or worse, just different in focus and scope.

 

[O Gurl]

Well I am interested in mental health such as eating disorders, depression, anxiety, child/marital abuse, neglect, and aging (Alzeihmer's/Dementia). I would eventually like to work at a hospital, which is why I am leaning towards the LCSW now. It doesn't seem like an occupation achieved from having a Masters in clinical psychology would provide job stability (in terms of how many jobs are available, not having to fear that you're going to get laid off, and a reasonable pay). I also have to stay in California, so it doesn't seem like the Masters in clin psych is a very smart choice, because the majority of the programs are geared towards eventually entering a PhD or PsyD program. In fact, I have not been able to find any programs that let you just stop at the Masters level (with no intention of entering a PhD/PsyD program I mean).

Also, I am not lazy or unwilling to commit to a PhD program, but I have obligations that I need to fulfill. That's why I am only looking into Master programs. I know the general consensus is that Master students are just unwilling to commit, and looking for the 'easy way out'. That's really not my case. I am genuinely interested in mental health and psychology as the subject matter. This is why I am still unsure of LCSW, since it seems like the focus is more on the outer world with a hint of the inner self.

Well, let me assure you that LCSWs are prevalent and highly skilled professionals in hospital and inpatient residential settings where these disorders are treated. So it could be the ideal career choice for you.

I hope that you have not gotten the impression that any of the PhD/PsyD camp is saying that you have to pursue that degree level in order to work in mental health and help people with these disorders. That is certainly not the case. Your personal obligations, whatever they may be, are completely valid reasons for not wanting to pursue the doctorate as this route requires a somewhat ridiculous amount of mobility.

From what you described, the LCSW (with an MSW from a respected, university-based institution) would set you up nicely. However, there will be limitations in terms of:
1. being able to provide comprehensive assessments. So you may be able to work with patients with Alzheimer's (dementia) and their care givers in terms of adjustment issues. However, you would not be able to test and diagnose these conditions.
2. research
3. teaching
4. some administrative positions

But if these are not deal-breakers for you and your interest is in providing individual, group, and family interventions (which is quite a task on its own), then the LCSW would be an awesome fit. Have you started researching programs?

 

[VerryBerry]

That's not the case at all. The vast majority of Masters-level students are hard working and pursuing their training for the right reasons. Sometimes doctoral students and doctoral professionals in the field can get irked when masters-level students assume they have the same training. The training is different...not better or worse, just different in focus and scope.

Well I don't mean that every single person thinks that way, but from reading posts here and elsewhere, it certainly does seem like it (a good chunk of people). I was also referring to those who just want to stop at a Masters and not pursue a doctorate, so I should have been more clear.

 

[VerryBerry]

However, there will be limitations in terms of:
1. being able to provide comprehensive assessments. So you may be able to work with patients with Alzheimer's (dementia) and their care givers in terms of adjustment issues. However, you would not be able to test and diagnose these conditions.

Have you started researching programs?

Thanks for your reply!

I read that a LCSW is able to diagnose in particular states though.
I think in California you can only consult with other staff, but I couldn't find anything specific on this.

I have checked all of the schools' websites that offer the Masters in Social Work degree (in California at least). Since it's a general Masters degree in social work, what specifically should I look for in their curriculum if I want to purse the LCSW route? A lot of clinical hours of course, but anything else that's important? I eventually plan to e-mail each school to ask specific questions.

 

[VerryBerry]

^Thanks for your reply!




Is a Master's Level Clinician another name for a LCSW?
I am a bit confused about this, because I have been reading that a Master's Level Clinician is also a Licensed Mental Health Counselor.

 

[stigmata]

Behavioral Health Providers
Psychologist- A psychologist is a doctoral level behavioral health provider who is licensed by the state of Colorado to provide psychological services. A psychologist must have earned a doctoral degree (Ph.D., Psy.D., Ed.D.) from an accredited university in psychology, completed at least a one-year clinical internship and a one-year clinical post-doctoral training or residency, as well as pass both state and national examinations in order to have a license and practice. Psychologists are trained to diagnose and treat behavioral health and mental health conditions. They are usually the only behavioral health provider who can legally administer and interpret psychological testing, and are generally well trained in (EBM) evidence based medicine procedures for treating psychiatric conditions. Psychologists with specific training may prescribe medications in Louisiana and New Mexico.
Psychiatrist- A psychiatrist is a physician who is licensed by the state of Colorado to provide psychiatric treatment. A psychiatrist must have earned a medical degree (M.D., D.O.) or, (MBBS and others in the U.K., Canada) from an accredited school of medicine, completed a psychiatric residency (3 years or more), and pass both state and national examinations in order to have a license to practice. Psychiatrists are trained to diagnose and treat psychiatric conditions, and usually specialize in using psychotropic medications as well as other medical procedures in addition to psychotherapy.
Mid-level Medical Providers- There are various degrees and licenses that allow a person to be a mid-level medical provider including nurse practitioners(PNP,FNP), clinical nurse specialists(CNS), physician’s assistants(PA-C), and nurse anaethesists, and they vary from state to state. In Colorado you may be treated by a nurse practitioner or clinical nurse specialist as well as a physician’s assistant for psychiatric conditions. Mid-level medical providers are not doctors, but are generally licensed to provide medical care and prescribe medications under the supervision of a physician. Mid-level providers are usually specialists in one area of medicine, and rarely provide psychotherapy or other forms of behavioral health treatment.
Psychotherapists- There are various degrees and licenses that allow a person to be a psychotherapist including licensed clinical social worker(LCSW), marriage and family therapist(MFT), licensed professional counselor(LPC), and in Colorado some psychotherapists are not licensed. All psychotherapists used by the mental health centers or NBH are licensed professionals or are supervised by licensed professionals. Psychotherapists are trained in various forms of psychotherapy to help either treat a psychological condition or to help a person through the recovery process. All licensed psychotherapists have earned at least a master’s degree in counseling, social work, or psychology (depending on license type), and are adept at providing a wide variety of services for behavioral health consumers. All licensed psychotherapists must pass a standardized state examination in order to receive their license. Psychotherapists do not prescribe medications.

 

[VerryBerry]

^Thanks for the replies everyone!



I have another question regarding the LCSW. I know that you have to complete ~3000 of supervised clinical training, but how do you apply for this training? Is this a special kind of program that you have to apply to after getting your Masters in Social Work? I've been trying to find programs for the Licensed Clinical portion, but can't. How does the "Licensing Clinical" part come into play after receiving the general MSW? Where's the application for it?

 

[BSWdavid]

^Thanks for the replies everyone!



I have another question regarding the LCSW. I know that you have to complete ~3000 of supervised clinical training, but how do you apply for this training? Is this a special kind of program that you have to apply to after getting your Masters in Social Work? I've been trying to find programs for the Licensed Clinical portion, but can't. How does the "Licensing Clinical" part come into play after receiving the general MSW? Where's the application for it?

The supervised clinical training comes from working in the field. Basically, you work as a therapist under the supervision of a licensed clinical social worker. Once you complete your hours, you take an exam and apply for your license.

 

[VerryBerry]

The supervised clinical training comes from working in the field. Basically, you work as a therapist under the supervision of a licensed clinical social worker. Once you complete your hours, you take an exam and apply for your license.

Thank you for your reply!

How do you get the opportunity to work in the field (in a clinical setting) though? Once you get your Masters of Social Work, is it basically a free-for-all, in the sense that anyone can do this? I am just worried that I won't be able to get the opportunity to complete these ~3000 hours. If there isn't a special program you have to apply to, how exactly are you supposed to start the process? Would my Masters school help me find a clinical therapist to work under?

 

[BSWdavid]

Thank you for your reply!

How do you get the opportunity to work in the field (in a clinical setting) though? Once you get your Masters of Social Work, is it basically a free-for-all, in the sense that anyone can do this? I am just worried that I won't be able to get the opportunity to complete these ~3000 hours. If there isn't a special program you have to apply to, how exactly are you supposed to start the process? Would my Masters school help me find a clinical therapist to work under?

Most agencies and community mental health centers hire recent MSW graduates, although it does very as some positions require the individual to have their clinical license. Basically, you do a job search and look for positions that only require the MSW. You would then practice under the supervision of an LCSW in order to obtain the 3000 hours necessary for licensure.