Masters Programs before Clinical PhD?

[psychmusic]

So I am currently a Junior at a top 50 liberal arts school, and I plan on applying to a solid handful of PhD programs next year, but I'm not very hopeful I'll get in. I really have my heart set on going to a school that I know is very reputable and where I'd be happy. Given my application is rather weak, I am looking for some research-oriented Masters programs that I can apply to in the mean time, but I'm having a lot of trouble finding them. I don't know where I could get a list. Most of the programs that I'm applying to don't have masters programs. Here are my stats, I'd really appreciate any input at all.

-Major- Psychology and Music
-Biological Psychology Concentration and College Honors Program- both of which require a senior thesis that will be in the area I have done most of my research in

-GPA- 3.9, Psych GPA- 3.92 (will be either 3.88 or 3.93 after this semester depending on my current psych class)

-GREs- I'm typically a good tester, but the GRE gives me indigestion. I got 162 verbal and 155 quantitative on the Princeton Review practice test before I started studying, but I haven't taken it since.

Research Experience
Started research in Cognitive Neuroscience Lab at the beginning of sophomore year. I have two major concerns here-
1) I do research in memory and attention, but I really want to work with a grad adviser who studies mental disorders or brain damage (I ultimately plan on going into clinical neuropsych research/practice
-my lab also studies addiction but I can't get involved with those projects right now
2) I have done two presentations, but only at my own school's advanced research colloquium and the summer research colloquium (and I don't even know if those things count). I do not have any publications and I'm afraid I may not get any before I leave. Best case scenario I'll be one author out of 9 or 10.

Clinical experience-

I worked at a group home for criminally committed patients the summer before my sophomore year. I am going to do a clinically related internship this semester, I'm just not sure what yet.



I'd really prefer schools in the New England area. I think I will apply to both Boston University and Boston College (and at the risk of getting yelled at for not posting this in the WAMC thread.... WAMC for these schools?)

But ultimately I really just want to know if anyone is aware of anywhere I could get a list of Masters programs that focus on research.

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[PsychPhDone]

You have a great GPA. I'd suggest you get a full-time RA job rather than go the Master's route.

 

[wigflip]

You have a great GPA. I'd suggest you get a full-time RA job rather than go the Master's route.

+1

I was skimming the post and trying to figure out what the "weak" part was. No pubs? A lot of students going into internship have none.

If you're still set on the MA apps:
You might nose around, use the search function, especially on the masters forum--that question has been asked a lot recently. CSUN and CSU Fullerton both have programs in SoCal--but there are others mentioned that escape me.

 

[psychmusic]

Thanks for the input. I do plan on going for RA positions but I want to apply to four or five MA programs in case I can't find a good position in the area I'm interested in.

 

[deleted176373]

Given my application is rather weak, I am looking for some research-oriented Masters programs that I can apply to in the mean time, but I'm having a lot of trouble finding them.

Not sure I see a weak application, sounds like your GRE would be roughly 90% verbal and the 70% quantitative (near a 1300 old score).

What's weak other than the quantitative score?

 

[psychmusic]

I don't mean weak as in its bad, I mean there is a very good chance I won't get into any programs, especially the ones that I want to apply to. I think my research experience is also somewhat detrimental. I am interested generally in brain disorders, and I'm looking to go into neuropsych, but I currently do research in cognitive neuroscience and attention.

 

[KillerDiller]

Stick to the funded Masters programs if/when you apply. Luckily, these also tend to be the ones that are heaviest on research. Off the top of my head (and there are other threads on here that will list more):

Villanova (general psych M.S., not the counseling M.A. program)
Wake Forest
William and Mary
Ball State
NYU (may or may not be funded, I can't remember)

 

[AcronymAllergy]

I don't mean weak as in its bad, I mean there is a very good chance I won't get into any programs, especially the ones that I want to apply to. I think my research experience is also somewhat detrimental. I am interested generally in brain disorders, and I'm looking to go into neuropsych, but I currently do research in cognitive neuroscience and attention.

Cognitive neuroscience research can be very relevant to neuropsychological theory and practice; I definitely wouldn't knock yourself for that experience just yet. "Brain disorders" often affect these basic cognitive skills in various ways, and having a strong understanding of how these skills work is very important in neuropsychology. Beyond that, I sometimes feel that people can go through grad school without getting a good idea of what normal cognitive functioning actually looks like. You could definitely use your experience in a cog neuroscience lab to address this point.

The biggest piece of advice I'll offer is to not geographically limit yourself. Having a geographical preference is fine, but if you're applying to fewer than 10-12 schools, you may be significant reducing your chances of acceptance. Also, the "price" of geographic restrictions becomes even steeper at the level of internship and, to some extent, post-doc.

 

[psychmusic]

The biggest piece of advice I'll offer is to not geographically limit yourself. Having a geographical preference is fine, but if you're applying to fewer than 10-12 schools, you may be significant reducing your chances of acceptance. Also, the "price" of geographic restrictions becomes even steeper at the level of internship and, to some extent, post-doc.

I really appreciate your input. I see what you're saying about avoiding limiting myself geographically. As far as PhD programs go, I'm applying literally all across the country based entirely on the program and not the location. For masters, though I feel somewhat more limited as I don't want to spend thousands to get settled in a new area only to spend tens of thousands on an interim step on the way to a PhD.

 

[wigflip]

I really appreciate your input. I see what you're saying about avoiding limiting myself geographically. As far as PhD programs go, I'm applying literally all across the country based entirely on the program and not the location. For masters, though I feel somewhat more limited as I don't want to spend thousands to get settled in a new area only to spend tens of thousands on an interim step on the way to a PhD.

I'd like to provide a counterpoint to the geographic mobility advice. Your training and career are very important, but your life is too. If you are so incredibly focused, and know yourself so well that location (for the PhD) genuinely doesn't matter to you, that's to your benefit. But several years down the road you may decide that working every minute of the day and night is driving you bonkers, and if that happens, you'll want to be somewhere you can stomach. Not to mention that the "go anywhere" philosophy doesn't necessarily work so well for certain populations (i.e. LGBT for one). Just remember, you're not just a junior scholar, but a human too.

 

[cara susanna]

A good program can make up for a bad location, IMO. Speaking as someone in probably one of the most undesirable school locations in the nation.

 

[MemberNumber]

A good program can make up for a bad location, IMO. Speaking as someone in probably one of the most undesirable school locations in the nation.

I agree, and I'm probably more in the "go anywhere" boat. I think that your training is the most important thing, because good training and good connections/professional development will open the most doors for you to be very selective when you actually try to get a job. You'll be at your place of employment much longer than grad school, hopefully, and it can be quite a pain to change jobs a lot.

In addition, if you're spending a lot of time on school work, you'll be much happier if you feel supported and taken care of in your program while you're working long hours. I would hate working long hours for people I didn't enjoy working with, even if I was living on the beach.

If you're the type of person that is focusing on geography because of other people that live in the area, it obviously gets a bit more hairy. In that case, it may be helpful to consider applying to more schools than you normally would so that you can make some hard decisions in case you get into a program far away, but don't get into any programs close to home.

Good luck with everything! I personally believe that most university cities/areas are livable for 4/5 years of your life if the program is supportive and pleasant to work in.

 

[wigflip]

A good program can make up for a bad location, IMO. Speaking as someone in probably one of the most undesirable school locations in the nation.

I'm sure that's true for some. I think it also depends on what your life is like--I'm older, in a committed relationship, and a Culture Pig. I go to school in a place (let's call it "Crapsville") with serious pretensions of grandeur, but no substance. Food is overpriced and terrible, "late" show is on at 7:45 and features Jim Carrey, Adam Sandler, or similar, only independently owned video store closed down. My ramshackle apartment with no soundproofing cost more than my mortgage at home, lacked proper heating, and the water quality was awful. It smelled like poop. Took me forever to figure out where the stench was coming from--the water I bathed in daily, of course. Really, almost destroyed my hair. So every week when I'd drive there from home (on weekend visit to reality) I'd have to pack the car full of tapwater from home, carry it up the stairs to my dank hole, heat it up, and them pour it over myself in order to wash and rinse my hair.

The grad students I know who come from MON (Middle of Nowhere) and the young True Believers think they've died and gone to heaven. The people from big cities, Culture Pigs, and older students who've been around know it's a dump and lament the decision to put education over happiness.

 

[wigflip]

Good luck with everything! I personally believe that most university cities/areas are livable for 4/5 years of your life if the program is supportive and pleasant to work in.

That's the gamble though, isn't it? What if people aren't supportive and pleasant to work with, and you've consigned yourself to Crapsville?

Other issue is relationships. I've watch a lot of people lie to themselves about "making it work across the distance." I'm the only one I know who succeeded, and that's probably only because we logged so many years together before I started grad school. Almost killed my relationship = definitely not worth it for me. Another great reason to go to grad school when you're young, single, mobile.

 

[AcronymAllergy]

It does obviously come down to personal preferences and priorities. I don't fall into the "younger" camp, although I'm likely not in the "older" group, either. I do, however, have very little holding me to any one particular location other than a penchant for warm weather. I've yet to visit a place that I couldn't "make work" for 4-6 years, although given that I did so with my grad program, I'm less-inclined to make the attempt with post-doc. Nonetheless, I am contemplating applying to at least a site or two without a significant geographic compatibility; in my mind, there's generally no harm in applying. And while I'd like to end up back in my home town, if push comes to shove, I'd rather have the non-geographically-compatible offer than none at all. That, and sadly, there are no relevant post-docs available in my state this year.

However, not everyone has those same views. I'm not at all saying that my take is the "right" or "best" one. What I can say, though, is that as I'm sure most everyone here is aware, a geographical restriction--just like any other--does limit your options, which in our field can potentially end up being either a minor inconvenience or a catastrophic career de-railer. For some people, it will hardly be an issue at all; for others, it may be the difference between finishing grad school or not.

 

[cara susanna]

I'm a huge theatre and opera buff and there is very little of that around here. I'm doing just fine.

 

[paramour]

I think cara, MemberNumber, wig, and Acronym all bring up excellent points.

My program, like cara's, also is in a craptastic location. However, I'm actually used to "much worse," so I didn't think it would be too much of an issue . . . Until you start dragging a lack of support from one's program and a long-distance relationship into the mix (and, yes, we had been together for many, many moons prior to my relocation--a marriage well dead & buried now). But, hey, my education is worth more than anything else, and this is what I had been telling myself for the past umpteen years.

Now I'm well-entrenched in the land o' grump & bitterness.

It is a crapshoot not knowing whether the sacrifices you may make geographically are going to be worth it for the level of support you may or may not receive in your program. Everything in life is a gamble though, so I'm not sure how this is any different. If receiving education at this level is something that one wants to do, then you suck it up and do it. Although I am certainly not enthusiastic about my own location, it would not prevent me from receiving the desired training and education in the area(s) of interest to me. (The support, or lack thereof rather, would be the only thing that would potentially make me question my decision to cease & desist. And, unfortunately, you don't always know that until you're already there.)

I personally would not allow geographical limitations to restrict my choices for graduate schools, internships, post docs, etc. However, I can understand in certain situations how some folks would take it into consideration (e.g., their family is of utmost importance to them and they want to remain near immediate family who may be helping them out with children, or they need to take their spouse's employment into consideration, or whatever the case might be). At the same time, if these individuals restrict their choices too much, then I should hope that they also understand that they may be setting themselves up for failure and the need for a new career somewhere along the line (particularly if they are doing so too early in the game).

In the meantime, psychmusic, I am not familiar with how the new GRE scores equate to the old GRE scoring system, but your stats seem to be fine. I would echo the advice of the others in that it seems as if you would benefit more from an RA position (if you are able to swing it) to enhance your research experience and continued studying for the GRE to boost your scores (and I went the master's route myself).

G'luck on whichever path you choose!

 

[deleted176373]

I don't mean weak as in its bad, I mean there is a very good chance I won't get into any programs, especially the ones that I want to apply to. I think my research experience is also somewhat detrimental. I am interested generally in brain disorders, and I'm looking to go into neuropsych, but I currently do research in cognitive neuroscience and attention.

I applied to extremely competitive programs, with less than what you have going for you, and I was fairly competitive. Mind you this was 2006 and 2007, but I did end up getting 14 interview offers (8 of which I attended) and was accepted at three very decent schools. Granted both Boston schools ignored me on my first round of applications (and I didn't apply a second time when I figured out that my Personal Statement wasn't personal enough.)

Interviews included competitive programs like University of Kansas, Texas A&M, University of Alabama, Michigan State University, Baylor, and Uniformed Services University.

Now mind you, I believe things have gotten more competitive in the last four years, but I don't think it is so much more competitive that you should not reasonable expect to gain interviews at respectable schools. Don't box yourself in to applying to programs that you may never be competitive for. While there is some advantage to having a Masters degree for some programs, others are biased to taking people straight from undergrad.

I wish you the best of luck in your pursuits. If you are pursuing primarily an academic path, then certainly prestige and connections at the graduate level are more important than they might be if practice is your end goal.