Do medical students in good southern schools (Vanderbilt, Emory, etc.) have slightly less opportunities and likelihood of success for residency matching into good hospitals in the northeast (NY Presbyterian, UPenn, etc.) compared to good medical schools in the northeast (NYU, Pitt, etc.)?
Match into northeast residency from southern med school?
- Thread starter nychila
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So regional bias cannot even be overcome by attending a school with a strong reputation like Vanderbilt?
From my understanding, away rotations are sub-specialty rotations at other hospitals at the end of fourth year for short durations and are selected through an application process?
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"Regional bias" is much less important in terms of residency matching compared to medical school acceptance. Your USMLE scores and many other factors are a much more significant part of your application. If you review the match lists of large programs, you will see they often draw from a large geographic distribution.
Audition or away rotations are a double-edged sword and can either strengthen a weak application or weaken a strong one, depending on your performance. They are not routinely a good idea (although for some specialties/some programs they can be mandatory or highly recommended).
Audition or away rotations are a double-edged sword and can either strengthen a weak application or weaken a strong one, depending on your performance. They are not routinely a good idea (although for some specialties/some programs they can be mandatory or highly recommended).
I never said it cannot be overcome, and I never said that you would be at a disadvantage by attending Vanderbilt.
You were comparing Vanderbilt to NYU and Pitt, so yes i think its a wash overall since any extra 'prestige' you gain from attending Vanderbilt will be off set by the regional bias NYP will have towards NYU and Pitt. If you are comparing Vanderbilt vs a mid-low tier school in the northeast, then obviously Vandy's reputation will help you out at a hospital like NYP.
But as was mentioned before, this preference is only one part of your application and having a strong overall package will make you a highly desirable candidate anywhere, especially coming from a prestigious school like Vanderbilt.
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Yep.
The reputation of your program, while a small contribution, may overcome any perceived regional bias.
As above, *all else being equal*, a degree from Vanderbilt would carry more weight at big NE programs than one from Touro.
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What would make doing an away rotation not a good idea? I thought it was a good way to see if a particular program was a good match for you?
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Do you have problems with reading comprehension?
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Because while most people can hold their social ineptitude at bay for a day, its a lot harder to do for 4 weeks.
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All else being equal and you were well liked, then yes.
If we found you annoying, then no.
Yes and no. If you're a good student at a place like Vanderbilt, you will absolutely match at the big universities with no problem if that's what you really want to do. Doing an away rotation is certainly helpful, particularly for California programs, but by no means necessary. It also depends on why you want to move to the Northeast- is your family/SO there or do you just kinda want to live in NYC? If it's the former, and it's clear in your application somewhere (you did a lot of schooling in the NYC area, your permanent address/ birthplace is around there) you shouldn't have a problem. A lot of interviewers ask about ties to the area when you're there, so it's nice to be able to say "my family's here, I'd really like to come back" instead of "nope, but the area seems cool".
That being said, it's better the devil you know than the devil you don't, so the big name East Coast places might have a little bit of an edge, particularly if the program is very small. Agai, this has a lot to do with ties to the area. If it's the in-home program of a med school, they have the added benefit of having worked with those students/ the people who wrote their letters of rec, which really helps.
But a place like Vanderbilt? No, that won't close any doors.
Again, yes and no. That depends a lot on how many people from your class wants to get into the home program for that particular specialty, because programs tend to cap the number of residents they take from their own med school. On the one hand, most programs I've heard of will interview their own med students and anyone who rotates through there regardless of board scores/ how competitive you are/ whether you actually want to go there. At best, it's a way for you to rank (and hopefully be ranked by) a program that you may otherwise not have gotten a shot at because of below-average scores or something. At the very least, it's a practice interview so you can become more polished later. So to that effect- sure, it's a benefit to come from that school- you'll get an interview no matter what, you have a chance to get to know the faculty and program director, the residents know you well, etc. But you'll almost always have to deal with a cap on the students they take from their own med school, if you pissed off the residents during your time there it'll be problematic (maybe you wouldn't have put your foot in your mouth in a 6 hour interview day, but you did during the months you were rotating on that service), and you'll basically be compared head-to-head with your classmates who are applying to the home program.
See above. The problem is that they're also seeing if you're a good match for them. On an away rotation, you're expected to work harder and longer hours than that program's own med students, cause you're there to impress. It's a one month long interview for the job. You can't just say "my only weaknesses are that i work too hard and care too much" during your interview and get away with it, because they've seen your weaknesses first hand. It's also generally much easier to piss someone off than impress. I dont know about you, but in one month I can put my foot in my mouth multiple times, but I can generally keep it together for an interview day.
That being said, as WS pointed out, there are some specialties where it's basically required to do a bunch of aways, and sometimes you pick a specialty your med school's hospital doesnt have and you have to do aways regardless. Most people do fine. You just want to be the best they've seen while never making anyone angry or making them think you're not on par with their other students, and that's hard work.
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Generally speaking, which specialties would require/strongly recommend away rotations?
As far as I've seen (someone correct me if I'm wrong), generally speaking the more competitive the specialty, the more useful the away rotation. This is because the really competitive (particularly surgical) specialties tend to be really small- think <5 residents per year, sometimes no more than 1 or 2. So you really work together a lot. You HAVE to fit in with the other residents well and the attendings have to feel like they can trust you completely, or else it's going to be a very long, painful 5-7 years for everyone. I know plastics and ortho pretty much "require" 2-3 aways. The people I know doing rad onc, ENT, nsurg and even derm did one or two.
Honestly, if you do a good job at an away it can be very beneficial. Not just for that place, either- if you can get a good letter from a bigwig at a different program (whether it's because you just want a second one or because your school doesn't have as big a name in that field), that's really looked upon well. For other specialties, too, sometimes you can only do one month at your school, and this way you can prove that you've done it at least 2-3 months and are sure you know what you're getting yourself into. Finally, for EM for example, if you go to a school with a smaller/ very academic ED, it may be beneficial to do a month at a big inner-city county place or a big community ED so when you apply to those programs you can say that you know what they're like.
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How about I give you Vanderbilt's published match lists since 2005 and let you decide for yourself?
https://medschool.vanderbilt.edu/events/match-day
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From a general and plastic surgery vantage, well regarded if old school in terms of residency training. Most in those fields, even outside of Texas, would be familiar with UTSW.
