MCAT guy

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May 24, 2010
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I've noticed on some of the match lists a person will have a primary match, but then a secondary match...

e.g.

Lisa Williams
--Internal medicine, preliminary
--Diagnostic radiology

Does this mean they matched into both and can chose? When would that decision have to be made. It appears that the second choices are more competitive specialties in general and I'm just attempting to understand it.

Another example:

Joe Blow
--Surgery, preliminary
--Anesthesiology

If you match both do you just then get your choice?
 

pnguyen

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some specialties require you to do a preliminary PGY-1 (intern) in medicine or surgery.
 

gettheleadout

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As I understand it, the applicant would have matched to both, as the primary match position is (as you showed) typically a prelim/transition year that acts as their internship, and they continue to the second program upon completion of the first. Someone correct me if this is way off.
 

quiltlady

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That's correct. For several fields, you have to match to a preliminary program as well as the advanced program. That means in your fourth year you have to apply and interview for several prelim spots as well as your specialty spots.
 

FIREitUP

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I've noticed on some of the match lists a person will have a primary match, but then a secondary match...

e.g.

Lisa Williams
--Internal medicine, preliminary
--Diagnostic radiology

Does this mean they matched into both and can chose? When would that decision have to be made. It appears that the second choices are more competitive specialties in general and I'm just attempting to understand it.

Another example:

Joe Blow
--Surgery, preliminary
--Anesthesiology

If you match both do you just then get your choice?
didn't you ask in a another thread what the significance of PGY-2 Matches were? Where here's your answer; sometimes you need a prelimary year to match into your desired specialty. That PGY-2 match is contingent on completing your preliminary year PGY-1.
 

Frazier

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I've noticed on some of the match lists a person will have a primary match, but then a secondary match...

e.g.

Lisa Williams
--Internal medicine, preliminary
--Diagnostic radiology

Does this mean they matched into both and can chose? When would that decision have to be made. It appears that the second choices are more competitive specialties in general and I'm just attempting to understand it.

Another example:

Joe Blow
--Surgery, preliminary
--Anesthesiology

If you match both do you just then get your choice?
Nice question. I wondered the answer to this also.
Muff, wherever you may be, take notes on what a useful thread looks like.
 

startswithb

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Good thread! My questions: which specialties require the prelim year? It seems there are a lot of diagnostic radiology/prelim/transitional years, what about surgery or anesthesiology? Also, there are some people listed as just Plastic Surgery and there are some that are Prelim/Plastics. Is it based on which program? Or speciality? Is matching into a full program without a prelim year better? Does doing a prelim year have to do with your competitiveness? I am very confused. :confused:
 
OP
M

MCAT guy

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didn't you ask in a another thread what the significance of PGY-2 Matches were? Where here's your answer; sometimes you need a prelimary year to match into your desired specialty. That PGY-2 match is contingent on completing your preliminary year PGY-1.
Yes I did ask that. Just trying to learn bro :)
 

MacVA

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MCAT GUY,

I believe the correct verbiage is transitional/preliminary years and then the advanced years. For some specialities, you need to match both a transitional/prelim year and the advanced year. It is possible to match your advanced year (actual speciality) and not match anyway in a trans/prelim year and thus have to scramble (happened to my cousin last year).

Some of these specialities include:
Anesthesiology
Ophthalmology
Radiology-Diagnostic
Dermatology
Phys Medicine & Rehab
 

MacVA

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Good thread! My questions: which specialties require the prelim year? It seems there are a lot of diagnostic radiology/prelim/transitional years, what about surgery or anesthesiology? Also, there are some people listed as just Plastic Surgery and there are some that are Prelim/Plastics. Is it based on which program? Or speciality? Is matching into a full program without a prelim year better? Does doing a prelim year have to do with your competitiveness? I am very confused. :confused:
INTEGRATED PLASTICS or PLASTICS. If PLASTICS, you need a prelim/trans year. If INTEGRATED PLASTICS, it is built in.
 
OP
M

MCAT guy

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May 24, 2010
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Good thread! My questions: which specialties require the prelim year? It seems there are a lot of diagnostic radiology/prelim/transitional years, what about surgery or anesthesiology? Also, there are some people listed as just Plastic Surgery and there are some that are Prelim/Plastics. Is it based on which program? Or speciality? Is matching into a full program without a prelim year better? Does doing a prelim year have to do with your competitiveness? I am very confused. :confused:
If you go here: http://www.nrmp.org/data/resultsanddata2010.pdf
Pg. 7

You will see that these specialties are PGY-2

note: some programs will allow you to enter without a preliminary...

PGY-2 Positions
Anesthesiology
Dermatology
Emergency Medicine
Neurology
Nuclear Medicine
Pediatrics-Medical Genetics
Physical Medicine & Rehab
Plastic Surgery
Preventive Medicine
Psychiatry
Psychiatry-Neurology
Radiation Oncology
Radiology-Diagnostic
Urology
 

startswithb

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Thanks guys!
 
OP
M

MCAT guy

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Just for the record, this one doesn't happen.
dude, I thought it didn't make sense also.

But that is straight off a match list of a school I interviewed at.

Last year there were 588 spots of PGY-2 gas, so I was wondering what the preliminary would be but I guess surgery is one of them.
 

BrainBuff

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Good thread! My questions: which specialties require the prelim year? It seems there are a lot of diagnostic radiology/prelim/transitional years, what about surgery or anesthesiology? Also, there are some people listed as just Plastic Surgery and there are some that are Prelim/Plastics. Is it based on which program? Or speciality? Is matching into a full program without a prelim year better? Does doing a prelim year have to do with your competitiveness? I am very confused. :confused:
There are few specialties that do not require a "separate" internship and their programs are fully integrated:

General Surgery
Pediatrics
Internal Medicine
Family Practice

Some surgical specialties will require a year of General Surgery like, (need to apply for PGY1 General Surgery and PGY2 positions)

Plastics
Urology
Neurosurgery;

however, some of these programs may be offered with the Internship in General Surgery already included as well (no need to apply for a separate PGY-1 position).

All medical specialties also require a year of internship : this could be a year of Internal Medicine or a year of the so called Transitional (which is more like a year of Family Practice) = need to apply for pGY1 and PGY 2 positions

Ophthalmology
Dermatology
Psychiatry
Neurology
Radiology
Nuclear Medicine
Radiation Oncology
PM&R
Emergency Medicine
Anesthesiology;

just like for surgery, some of these programs may offer an integrated Internship without the need to apply for a separate PGY-1 position. It all depends on the specific school or hospital.


The rest of the surgical subspecialties (Cardiothoracic, Vascular, etc ) are PGY-5 positions that you enter after finishing General Surgery (4 years) The same with the medical subspecialties (GI, Cardiology, Pulmonary, ICU, etc) which start as PGY-4 positions after completing an Internal Medicine (3 years) residency just like any fellowships.
 
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dude, I thought it didn't make sense also.

But that is straight off a match list of a school I interviewed at.

Last year there were 588 spots of PGY-2 gas, so I was wondering what the preliminary would be but I guess surgery is one of them.
Actually, I take my post back. I hadn't seen it before, but it makes sense when you think about it. A surgery internship would be a good preparation for being someone who works exclusively in a surgical setting. I just didn't know it was possible. Cool :)
 
OP
M

MCAT guy

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Thanks for the info guys.

Very helpful. :thumbup:
 
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Thank you so much Brain Buff!

I was wondering how it works for ob/gyn. Also, do most people who need to do a preliminary year do the program at the same hospital/ school affiliation?

Thanks!
 
OP
M

MCAT guy

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May 24, 2010
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Thank you so much Brain Buff!

I was wondering how it works for ob/gyn. Also, do most people who need to do a preliminary year do the program at the same hospital/ school affiliation?

Thanks!
See the NRMP pg. 7 (link above)

There were 1,187 OB/GYN spots last year for PGY-1 and 0 PGY-2. So I could be wrong, but it appears it is built in for OB/GYN.
 

gravitywave

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The rest of the surgical subspecialties (Cardiothoracic, Vascular, etc ) are PGY-5 positions that you enter after finishing General Surgery (4 years)
General Surgery is a five-year residency; the fellowships are PGY-6 positions.

inb4TheProwler
 

DrBowtie

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INTEGRATED PLASTICS or PLASTICS. If PLASTICS, you need a prelim/trans year. If INTEGRATED PLASTICS, it is built in.
Integrated plastics refers to the 6 year guaranteed plastics spot vs regular plastics which is 5 yr gen surg + plastics fellowship (that is applied for during your gen surg residency).

Prelim years being linked or unlinked doesn't really matter except for the possible inconvenience of moving more times.
 

gettheleadout

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Some surgical specialties will require a year of General Surgery like, (need to apply for PGY1 General Surgery and PGY2 positions)

Plastics
Urology
Neurosurgery;

however, some of these programs may be offered with the Internship in General Surgery already included as well (no need to apply for a separate PGY-1 position).
Integrated plastics refers to the 6 year guaranteed plastics spot vs regular plastics which is 5 yr gen surg + plastics fellowship (that is applied for during your gen surg residency).
Somebody clarify this for me: Do Plastics programs exist that are not integrated, but accept applicants with a general surgery prelim year? (as opposed to a full general surgery residency)
 

DrBowtie

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Somebody clarify this for me: Do Plastics programs exist that are not integrated, but accept applicants with a general surgery prelim year? (as opposed to a full general surgery residency)
To my knowledge no. You either match directly into an integrated program direct from med school, or apply as a pgy-3/4 for a pgy-6 spot. I guess you could potentially score a spot if someone in an integrated program dropped out.

If anyone knows different, feel free to correct.
 

Longshanks

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Great thread. Very helpful in clearing that up. Some residents and attendings tried to explain it in the Osteopathic student forum but it was very confusing (maybe because they were also discussing resolution 42).

MCAT guy: 9/10 thread. Would've been 10/10 if you ended it with "yo". But its getting added to my favorites anyway, yo.