Matching back to CA from JHU?

[jaaackay]

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[DubbiDoctor]

Sounds like you'd be happier at USC, which is a great school. Obviously JH grads can match anywhere in the country, though - so don't worry about not matching back to california if you decide on JH. PDs consider regional ties.

 

[Forever Geebs]

USC if you enjoy your SO, can tolerate family, and like your friends. That stuff matters, believe it or not. But that’s how I’ve always operated.

Best of luck to you.


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[jdh71]

It will be impossible to match back in Cali from JHU

 

[Redpancreas]

Go to Hopkins. If you can stay for IM, you’re at the best program in the world.

 

[doc05]

USC. You have a life in SoCal and no sense screwing that up. Good luck.

And you're welcome.

 

[Entadus]

Lots of suicides at USC lately.

What are the financial packages/C.O.A.'s looking like?

You won't have a problem matching back in CA from Johns Hopkins

 

[ACSurgeon]

I am an LA native and resident (did undergrad in SoCal), and am debating between USC and JHU for medical school. My SO of 7+ years will stay in LA, my family and friends are in LA, and so matching back to California and ideally LA is currently a must. I was wondering if anyone can comment specifically on JHU students having difficulty matching back?

I understand my interests may change, but I’m looking towards IM or psychiatry. I prioritize work-life balance above all else and after shadowing, know for sure I do not want surgery and most procedural-based specialties. I’ve noticed there aren’t a lot of UCLA IM or psych residents from JHU + not a lot of JHU M4’s matches to CA. However, I’m not sure if that’s because not many applied back to CA vs. gotten rejected from CA residencies. I’ve heard about doing external rotations / sub-i’s in CA.

Of course it’s possible. The real question is, if you prioritize work-life balance above all else, why are you contemplating moving thousands of miles away from SO/friends/family for the next four years?

 

[Lnsean]

Go to Hopkins.

 

[softball2344]

If you are smart enough to get into Hopkins you will do well anywhere, I'd pick USC

 

[castlebox]

I'm actually an MS4 who applied into IM this year, and I met a good number of Hopkins med students on the interview trail (and that includes bumping into them at residencies in California). I've kept in contact with a couple of them during the whole match process and a lot of them ranked east coast programs higher than west coast programs because they wanted to stay on the east coast (where they were from). They definitely do not have any trouble getting interviews on the west coast, and I also know a couple of them got post-match surveys from these programs (i.e. they were ranked high enough to have matched). They certainly would not have any trouble matching on the west coast if they wanted to.

Just bringing up another point, if you've grown up and lived in SoCal your whole life, I would also consider the opportunity to live somewhere else for the next four years-- from what it sounds like this will probably be your only opportunity to live in another city outside of SoCal, and it will really allow you to grow as a person.

 

[castlebox]

!! Good to know. May explain the research I found.


Ahh, good to hear.

Thanks for your last paragraph as well. Matches how I’m feeling.

Yep no problem... One of my best friends from med school actually is from SoCal, grew up there and went to college in SoCal. He came to the east coast for med school and thinks it was a great decision from a personal development standpoint.

 

[Instatewaiter]

Just bringing up another point, if you've grown up and lived in SoCal your whole life, I would also consider the opportunity to live somewhere else for the next four years-- from what it sounds like this will probably be your only opportunity to live in another city outside of SoCal, and it will really allow you to grow as a person.

And what better place to live than Baltimore. They are basically the same thing- SoCal and Baltimore. One has sunshine and lots of beautiful people. The other has entire neighborhoods of blight and boarded up windows and lots of crackheads.

Baltimore where it's nicknames- "the city that reads" and "charm city" are said ironically.
Baltimore the city where residents burn down old folks homes to protest the wrong of the moment.
Baltimore where just a few years ago the local sports hero murdered a guy with a knife

In all kidding aside, as someone who lived in baltimore for years and may or may not have trained at Hopkins, Hopkins is a rare opportunity and will be a great feather in your cap. Its clinical education is second to none. You will have no problem matching UCLA, Stanford, UCSF provided you do well at Hopkins. Hopkins is literally the place where the term "rounding" came from as the residents would go around the Hopkins rotunda.

The question is whether you and your SO will stay together long distance, especially through medical school. For that matter, medical school is tough on relationships even if you are in the same city. It broke up a 4 year relationship of mine- which in all honesty was probably one of the better things that happened to me during medical school...

 

[GadRads]

Doesn't matter whether you go to USC or Hopkins in the long run. The difference in prestige is meaningless. Go where you will be happiest. Long distance is also tough on relationships .

 

[Peach Newport]

Show me a single residency program where “only” going to USC will be held against you.

You’re an LA native. Your life is there. Your support system is there. Your home is there. You will WANT those things in medical school, I guarantee it.

Do not trade such important factors for such a marginal increase in prestige. Actually, that increase in prestige isn’t marginal, it’s negligable.

The only way this decision could be easier is if you, for some reason, wanted to do residency and practice in California. Oh wait...

Anyone who seriously suggests JHU is either a troll or smoking crack.

 

[dark_knight]

Show me a single residency program where “only” going to USC will be held against you.

You’re an LA native. Your life is there. Your support system is there. Your home is there. You will WANT those things in medical school, I guarantee it.

Do not trade such important factors for such a marginal increase in prestige. Actually, that increase in prestige isn’t marginal, it’s negligable.

The only way this decision could be easier is if you, for some reason, wanted to do residency and practice in California. Oh wait...

Anyone who seriously suggests JHU is either a troll or smoking crack.

Dang. Who angered you?

But I agree with the previous posters. Don't choose a medical school for superficial reasons like name or prestige.

Choose the school and situation that will make you happiest. If that's in LA to be with your SO then great. If it's at school X because you loved the city or the faculty or the weather or whatever then also great.

Every situation is different and you have to choose what is best for you.

 

[Dwan]

Why would you go to JHU just for the sake of going back to CA? I agree you probably will be able to, but you can do that just as easily from USC as well, and your 4 years of medical school will be more pleasant if USC is the right location for you. If you wanted to gun for top residencies on the east coast, it'd be a different story. Also, JHU's IM program is not known for great work life balance.

 

[Say]

I would definitely go to JHU. Can't believe all these people in this thread. JHU is the best of the best. You can go anywhere from there. If you go back to cali after JHU you will be treated with way more respect since there are prob less JHU grads there. Being from JHU guarantees you pretty much any residency position at any program. It is only 4 years after all

 

[PhillyMed777]

Being from JHU guarantees you pretty much any residency position at any program

untrue
of course you have an upper hand, but not true.

 

[qwerty89]

Moot point because the OP has already made his/her decision.

But as a current resident originally from california and not doing residency back home I gotta say I think you shoulda picked USC.

I understand the allure of the more prestigious place. When you pick it everyone will think you are super smart. You get all the oohs and ahhs when you tell friends and family. All that makes you feel good. But in the end none of it really matters.

Nothing in the original post suggests that the additional prestige from JHU will help his/her career. Not in specialty (IM/Psych are not particularly competitive) or in career goals (never said he wanted to do academics at a big time place). He/she seems like a regular person who just wants a normal life balance. Now coming from JHU you won't have trouble matching back home with proper planning (CA away rotations 4th year, etc) but why leave in the first place.

Also regarding your relationship. Finding a good spouse honestly just gets harder as you get older. If you consider your SO to be husband/wife material then you should just stay at USC.

I think you can boil it down very simply by thinking about your future rank lists.
Would you rank a JHU (or MGH/BWH, etc) over Cedars-Sinai (if you like socal) or CPMC (if you like Norcal) for IM residency when the time comes to make a match? Both cedars and CPMC are very good sorta academic community programs in their respective regions, but not powerhouses like JHU.
If you say yes then definitely choose JHU. If not then you might as well stay home at USC.

 

[Lnsean]

I would definitely go to JHU. Can't believe all these people in this thread. JHU is the best of the best. You can go anywhere from there. If you go back to cali after JHU you will be treated with way more respect since there are prob less JHU grads there. Being from JHU guarantees you pretty much any residency position at any program. It is only 4 years after all

People can't have what others have so they try to give advices they themselves would not take.

 

[Rekt]

Hello, everyone! Thanks to each and every one of you for your input. I’ve mentioned earlier that I overall prefer JH over USC in terms of curriculum, research opportunities, student body, etc. and am 100% fine with moving across the country. It wasn’t super about prestige... Some may find this silly, but I looking for some reassurance that moving back to CA for residency wasn’t an absolutely grueling uphill battle since I haven’t seen many current residents at UCLA/USC/etc. from JH or many JH M4’s matching to CA. As someone mentioned above, it’s probably because they ranked East coast programs higher. I understand there will be a hill nonetheless, but as long as there isn’t some huge bias against having East Coasters matching to CA. Your comments have reassured me that this should not be a huge concern and PD’s do consider regional ties.

I’ve decided to choose JH and cannot be any happier with my decision.

Screw them. It's interesting how this is one thread where people are saying to pick CA over prestige, but bring it up any other time and it matters a lot. You made a smart decision.

 

[qwerty89]

Because other times are different situations. In this case the OP said they want to do IM or Psych which are not competitive. If they wanted to do Derm/ENT/Ortho/Integrated IR, etc then that's different. With those specialties there is no guarantee of matching. If the plan is to be a community doc in Psych or IM then I don't see the point.

Prestige obviously matters but only to a point. If the OP is going to ultimately rank all mid and low tier California residency programs over top/mid tier east coast programs then I don't see prestige really helping him out as much as it otherwise would.

If your rank list is going to be
1. UCLA
2. UCSD
3. USC
4. UCI
5. UCD
6. Cedars
7. CPMC
8. JHU
9. BWH
10. UMich, etc

then the added prestige makes no difference. On the other hand if you are gonna rank in order of prestige with no regard for location with something like this
1. JHU
2. MGH
3. UCLA
4. UMich
5. Northwestern
6. UCSD

etc then, yes, the added prestige of going to a top 5 institution will help.

Also what about your significant other. 7 years is a really damn long time with no ring. Are you planning on getting married? If not then disregard, but if you are then you might wanna ask them what they want and if they are down with a 4 year long term relationship. 3 hour time zone difference is no joke.

That being said, like I said before, you will probably eventually match in California regardless. At least for those specialties.

Keep in mind that USC is no slouch. If you were comparing a low-tier allopathic or any DO school then its completely different.

 

[mw18]

Hello, everyone! Thanks to each and every one of you for your input. I’ve mentioned earlier that I overall prefer JH over USC in terms of curriculum, research opportunities, student body, etc. and am 100% fine with moving across the country. It wasn’t super about prestige... Some may find this silly, but I looking for some reassurance that moving back to CA for residency wasn’t an absolutely grueling uphill battle since I haven’t seen many current residents at UCLA/USC/etc. from JH or many JH M4’s matching to CA. As someone mentioned above, it’s probably because they ranked East coast programs higher. I understand there will be a hill nonetheless, but as long as there isn’t some huge bias against having East Coasters matching to CA. Your comments have reassured me that this should not be a huge concern and PD’s do consider regional ties.

I’ve decided to choose JH and cannot be any happier with my decision.

FWIW Hopkins matched 2 students at USC for IM this year.

 

[Peach Newport]

Dang. Who angered you?

But I agree with the previous posters. Don't choose a medical school for superficial reasons like name or prestige.

Choose the school and situation that will make you happiest. If that's in LA to be with your SO then great. If it's at school X because you loved the city or the faculty or the weather or whatever then also great.

Every situation is different and you have to choose what is best for you.

I’m not angry, I’m just trying to stress a point that pre-meds very often ignore.

Everyone going off to med school thinks of it like college - that they’re going off on some cool new adventure, to an unfamiliar part of the country, where they’ll find new friends, and a new life.

But so often... it just isn’t like that. Med school isn’t college. It’s an emotional meat grinder. Your social circle is mostly other medical students who, like you, never really have time to hang out. It’s lonely.

I go to school in NYC. I’m an NYC native - my family and friends are here. I’m also very rarely stressed out in med school, and that’s not a coincidence. I have an extensive social support network that has saved me on several occasions.

The NYC natives in my class are by far happier than the transplants, who are almost invariably the walking balls of stress and misery. It’s not a rule, but there’s a strong correlation.

A lot of S*** happens in 4 years. Your parents and friends die. Your long-term significant other leaves you or cheats on you with someone who has time for them. You fail an important test. Your self-esteem gets chewed up, spit out, and discarded as a relic of the past. In situations like this, the way you manage yourself and your emotions is everything... and being on home turf (as opposed to say, a strange unfamiliar city) gives you a massive advantage.

It’s not “just 4 years.” 4 years is a long time.

Also, Med school is when a lot of people meet life partners. People they really love. It’s a hell of a complication when you know that you’re gonna move across the country within the next 4 years and he/she can’t come with you. That can be crushing. But you know who doesn’t have that problem?

To phrase this in a way SDN can understand, the happier student, in a better mental state, is in the best position to get higher board scores.

This might be worth it if it conferred a major career benefit. For instance, you had your heart set on a blisteringly competitive specialty and you were choosing between schools with extremely different reputations (nether of which applies here).

OP, it’s your decision and it’s your life. Only you know yourself, I won’t presume to know you better than you know you. My concern is that you’re making a bad deal with yourself and you don’t know it yet.

 

[Lnsean]

Screw them. It's interesting how this is one thread where people are saying to pick CA over prestige, but bring it up any other time and it matters a lot. You made a smart decision.

That's because jealousy is a thing. People see others having things they want so they try to sabotage it. They try to do it sneakily too.

 

[hellanutella]

@jaaackay

Just wanted to reach out as a LA to JHU transplant – I too was deciding between CA schools and taking the plunge out east. The scenery (and weather) change can be jarring, but I've never been told it'd be harder matching back west from JHU vs. a CA school.

Please message me if you have any questions about the transition, Hopkins, or anything else!

Disclaimer: if you're looking at some of the highest-echelon CA residency spots or uber-competitive specialties, these matches will be a challenge regardless of your home institution.

 

[RogueUnicorn]

Everyone going off to med school thinks of it like college - that they’re going off on some cool new adventure, to an unfamiliar part of the country, where they’ll find new friends, and a new life.

But so often... it just isn’t like that. Med school isn’t college. It’s an emotional meat grinder. Your social circle is mostly other medical students who, like you, never really have time to hang out. It’s lonely.

For me and many (most?) of my classmates med school was awesome. We for the most part in fact had ourselves cool new adventures in an unfamiliar part of the country, found new friends and new lives. We hung out all the time and were rarely lonely. Honestly it just mostly sounds like you go to a stressful school.

I acknowledge this is affected by my recent emotions so I’m going to be rethinking my decision every day and talking to all friends and physicians. Another worst-case scenario pushing me to choose USC: IF I move to JH and IF I meet someone else there like many do, what are the chances he wants to move to SoCal? I’d hate to be in that situation again and have yet to find a logical counterpoint other than “date in residency!”

Counter-counterpoint - what if you meet a new SO at USC and now you have to couples match with one/both of you trying to get somewhere competitive?

Sorry to hear about your turmoil. That being said I echo about half the posters in saying it's a no-brainer to go to JHU provided you like the school, which it seems you do. The opportunity differences between these two institutions for students is tremendous. As long as you think you will be able to be fine in what is truthfully a crappy city with crap weather without any physical family support, go to Hopkins.

 

[qwerty89]

Hmm. Given that the relationship no long exists. I really think its closer to a toss up now.

One thing you gotta remember that it is MUCH harder to move to an unknown place for residency or fellowship than it is for medical school. Med school (for better or worse) really is like college 2.0. Plenty of other people in a similar situation and you will make friends easily.

Can't say the same for residency. People are older and more likely to have families of their own. That and the whole being busier thing easily leads to isolation.

Coming from JHU you won't have a problem matching back in California if that is what you prefer (not saying you are guaranteed UCSF/UCLA, but mid-tier academic IM/Psych should be absolutely no problem even with mediocre step 1).

I had assumed that you had a great relationship that was gonna lead to marriage. THAT would really change things.