Matching into Desirable Location Cali

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libertyyne

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What would it take to match into a desirable location in California from someone that has no ties to the state, area going to a mid tier state school in the midwest? What would my app have to look like for say something like IM?

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Depends on how much you're willing to sacrifice in terms of name brand, training quality, and fellowship potential. There are community IM programs in California, even ones in great locations, that take mostly DOs and IMGs. The trade-off is that you're going to be behind the 8-ball applying to cards or GI afterwards.
 
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Depends on how much you're willing to sacrifice in terms of name brand, training quality, and fellowship potential. There are community IM programs in California, even ones in great locations, that take mostly DOs and IMGs. The trade-off is that you're going to be behind the 8-ball applying to cards or GI afterwards.
So If I am not interested in going pasts IM into fellowship it will be an easier task?
 
So If I am not interested in going pasts IM into fellowship it will be an easier task?

I think that the high-end IM programs on the West Coast are tougher to get into than their equivalent programs in the Midwest or the Northeast because there are so few of them out West. I have a hard time believing that run-of-the-mill community-based IM programs in California are that competitive.
 
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Something to think about:

These desirable locations are extremely expensive. As a resident you won't be rolling in dough. If you don't have any other connections outside of wanting to enjoy the weather etc it might make more sense to get into the best program you can(most places will be cheaper cost of living than southern cali) and then look to practice as an attending in the desirable area when you have the money to compensate for the lifestyle.
 
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Something to think about:

These desirable locations are extremely expensive. As a resident you won't be rolling in dough. If you don't have any other connections outside of wanting to enjoy the weather etc it might make more sense to get into the best program you can(most places will be cheaper cost of living than southern cali) and then look to practice as an attending in the desirable area when you have the money to compensate for the lifestyle.
I have thought about this, But dont the connections you make in residency lead to jobs?
 
You'll never make it past the interview stage for California residencies if you continue calling it Cali ;)

(jk) (but not really)
 
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You'll never make it past the interview stage for California residencies if you continue calling it Cali ;)

(jk) (but not really)
I was accepted to a school in Cali. There was a slight problem though.
 
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You'll never make it past the interview stage for California residencies if you continue calling it Cali ;)

(jk) (but not really)
THANK YOU! I'm so glad someone else has expressed this opinion. For many of us who grew up there, hearing people not from there calling it "cali" is like nails on a chalk board (although I hear some of the younger people saying it now). While on the subject, please no one call San Francisco "san fran" or worse, "frisco".
 
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Well I cant change the title any longer. Duly noted. I blame notorious BIG and LL cool J for the "Cali" use in our culture in general.
 
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Well I cant change the title any longer. Duly noted. I blame notorious BIG and LL cool J for the "Cali" use in our culture in general.
Oh man, is that where it came from? I was always curious. I heard it for the first time when I went out of state for college (many many moons ago) but when I moved back home to work, I started hearing some of the high school age kids saying it too. Never knew how it got started.
 
What would it take to match into a desirable location in California from someone that has no ties to the state, area going to a mid tier state school in the midwest? What would my app have to look like for say something like IM?
So you aren't originally form California? Why do you want to go there for residency? Northern or Southern California?

It is a cool place, but life is more difficult there on a residents salary. You will worry a lot less about money if you live in the Midwest and I feel like removing that stressor from residency would be valuable. I also don't know how much time you will have to appreciate the beach or do stuff like ski on the weekends if you end up in California. Literally the only thing that California has going for it during residency is that the weather is good so you won't be cold walking from your door to your car and then from your car to the hospital. You can also soak up the sunshine while sitting in traffic on the freeway. If you are willing to pay all that extra money for good weather for 3 years then go ahead I guess. Also, If you go to a solid academic IM program you shouldn't have trouble getting a job somewhere in California after residency.
 
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So you aren't originally form California? Why do you want to go there for residency? Northern or Southern California?

It is a cool place, but life is more difficult there on a residents salary. You will worry a lot less about money if you live in the Midwest and I feel like removing that stressor from residency would be valuable. I also don't know how much time you will have to appreciate the beach or do stuff like ski on the weekends if you end up in California. Literally the only thing that California has going for it during residency is that the weather is good so you won't be cold walking from your door to your car and then from your car to the hospital. You can also soak up the sunshine while sitting in traffic on the freeway. If you are willing to pay all that extra money for good weather for 3 years then go ahead I guess. Also, If you go to a solid academic IM program you shouldn't have trouble getting a job somewhere in California after residency.
I dont know how jobs for MDs work, I was under the impression that good jobs are usually word of mouth kind of thing, so doing a residency in california would make that infinitely easier. Plus I am kind of done with the winters in the midwest and my vitamin D level is in the dumps, so the added costs are worth it to me and my family.
 
What if you're leaving California for a Midwest mid tier school and you want to come back home? Still difficult because it's still California residency, but less difficult, right?
 
Surprised it's not been mentioned yet, but doing away rotations during 4th year is a common way to demonstrate interest in a geographical area to which you may not otherwise have a connection.
 
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The cost burden in the Bay Area is definitely not insignificant. Before med school, I was paying $4000/mo for a small dump on the peninsula. My brother pays $5200 for a small but nice place in a borderline neighborhood in the city. If I make it home for residency, there is a very real possibility I will ask my parents if I can live with them...in my late 30s. Hubby is not a fan of this idea.

SoCal is less expensive though.
 
The cost burden is definitely not insignificant. Before med school, I was paying $4000/mo for a small dump on the peninsula. My brother pays $5200 for a small but nice place in a borderline neighborhood in the city. If I make it home for residency, there is a very real possibility I will ask my parents if I can live with them...in my late 30s. Hubby is not a fan of this idea.

SoCal is less expensive though.
$4000/mo on the peninsula is ridiculous (unless you have kids), how many rooms??
 
The cost burden is definitely not insignificant. Before med school, I was paying $4000/mo for a small dump on the peninsula. My brother pays $5200 for a small but nice place in a borderline neighborhood in the city. If I make it home for residency, there is a very real possibility I will ask my parents if I can live with them...in my late 30s. Hubby is not a fan of this idea.

SoCal is less expensive though.
Some programs have subsidized housing for residents.
 
$4000/mo on the peninsula is ridiculous (unless you have kids), how many rooms??
Not ridiculous for the Palo Alto/Los Altos/Menlo Park area for >1,000 sq ft (https://sfbay.craigslist.org/search/pen/apa?nh=78&nh=79&nh=83&minSqft=1000&availabilityMode=0) .

This place was a 2 br and approx 1400 sq ft. It was actually a good price for its size and neighborhood. It's possible although difficult to find places cheaper in that area, but at the time I had a job that paid well so I was fine with the rent.
 
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I think that the high-end IM programs on the West Coast are tougher to get into than their equivalent programs in the Midwest or the Northeast because there are so few of them out West. I have a hard time believing that run-of-the-mill community-based IM programs in California are that competitive.
It's always been weird to me how IM-light and FM-heavy the West is.
 
Not ridiculous for the Palo Alto/Los Altos/Menlo Park area for >1,000 sq ft (https://sfbay.craigslist.org/search/pen/apa?nh=78&nh=79&nh=83&minSqft=1000&availabilityMode=0) .

This place was a 2 br and approx 1400 sq ft. You can find places cheaper, but at the time I had a job that paid well.
That's still kind of crazy! I have a friend in one of those three towns renting a 1500 sq ft 3-bedroom house for less than $2.5k. Admittedly, that's a total steal, but there are definitely great options out there if you know where to look
 
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SoCal is less expensive. OP, I don't know which you prefer but definitely check out LA, OC, Inland Empire (IE), and SD. If you want cheaper living and really only care about weather and not the beach/cultural amenities then look into the IE and a program like Loma Linda. There are also some non-academic programs in SoCal like St. Mary's in Long Beach which wouldn't be that unaffordable. Even some areas of OC aren't that expensive and a place like UCI would be feasible as long as you stayed away from living in the coastal cities.

At risk of invoking some anger (I feel like SDN is NorCal heavy) I'm going to go out on a limb and say that NorCal is not worth the price tag. Don't get me wrong, it is a lovely area, but not worth the financial consequences.
 
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That's still kind of crazy! I have a friend in one of those three towns renting a 1500 sq ft 3-bedroom house for less than $2.5k. Admittedly, that's a total steal, but there are definitely great options out there if you know where to look
Totally agree you can find cheaper if you try. Especially if you're willing to live in East Palo Alto or the area in Menlo Park around 101. But if you check out Craigslist, what I was paying was actually on the lower end for what's available in that area.

Sorry, OP, for highjacking your thread to complain about Bay Area housing prices!!
 
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SoCal is less expensive. OP, I don't know which you prefer but definitely check out LA, OC, Inland Empire (IE), and SD. If you want cheaper living and really only care about weather and not the beach/cultural amenities then look into the IE and a program like Loma Linda. There are also some non-academic programs in SoCal like St. Mary's in Long Beach which wouldn't be that unaffordable. Even some areas of OC aren't that expensive and a place like UCI would be feasible as long as you stayed away from living in the coastal cities.

At risk of invoking some anger (I feel like SDN is NorCal heavy) I'm going to go out on a limb and say that NorCal is not worth the price tag. Don't get me wrong, it is a lovely area, but not worth the financial consequences.
I love Socal, not a big fan of NorCal.
 
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The best way to penetrate (hehe) California from out of state is to do away rotations there.
 
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Lot of people from cali here
67127880.jpg
 
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I think that the high-end IM programs on the West Coast are tougher to get into than their equivalent programs in the Midwest or the Northeast because there are so few of them out West. I have a hard time believing that run-of-the-mill community-based IM programs in California are that competitive.

It's always been weird to me how IM-light and FM-heavy the West is.

No matter what programs you look at, there's less out west than east just because of population density and history.

As far as how IM-light and FM-heavy it is, I can say it's definitely a "hippie" thing. Something about the value in a provider caring for the ENTIRE family from birth all the way to death, that it adds this extra personal element where the physician becomes part of the extended family even! And bumps into their patients at the grocery store, the local pee wee baseball games, etc etc. A pillar of the community and a trusted friend.

Compared to the East coast, the West is still, well, the wild west to some extent. The idea that you still need a practitioner that can do all of the following: do a C-section, an appendectomy, sew an ear back on, do well child checks, a vasectomy, do your sigmoidoscopy, and treat your "cough" - I have learned to call this, "cowboy medicine." It's basically what happens when you have just one doc in the boondocks. It broadens the scope of practice. Now, for an FM doc to sew an ear back on in a city like Seattle - outside the scope of practice, why the **** didn't you get a real surgeon? Not gonna fly. In some parts of WA, 5 hour drive from a surgeon? You just tried to save an ear.

The ob/gyn clerkship director told me the idea of FM docs doing anything more than a "simple" vaginal delivery (a concept ob/gyn doesn't believe in for non-obs, as any delivery can go "wrong"), was ridiculous, as the ob/gyn spends 4 years training doing nothing but this type of medicine, and the FM doc only does a few months of ob/gyn. They summed up FM docs (without special fellowships) doing this, as "cowboy medicine." That's where I got the term. That's also were I sorta picked up one idea about what makes FM unique from, say, IM.

Let's just say I was privy to some lectures from both sides as to the differences in IM and FM philosophies, the history, and why it's a thang out west.

An IM doc can't fit the above bill in any meaningful way as I described it. I still see value in IM, it's distinct in philosophy, there's reasons to have it. Just saying.

TLDR:
there's an interesting reason there's such a "FM" movement out west
if you read the story, you might learn about FM and West coast medicine philosophy
 
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No matter what programs you look at, there's less out west than east just because of population density and history.

As far as how IM-light and FM-heavy it is, I can say it's definitely a "hippie" thing. Something about the value in a provider caring for the ENTIRE family from birth all the way to death, that it adds this extra personal element where the physician becomes part of the extended family even! And bumps into their patients at the grocery store, the local pee wee baseball games, etc etc. A pillar of the community and a trusted friend.

Compared to the East coast, the West is still, well, the wild west to some extent. The idea that you still need a practitioner that can do all of the following: do a C-section, an appendectomy, sew an ear back on, do well child checks, a vasectomy, do your sigmoidoscopy, and treat your "cough" - I have learned to call this, "cowboy medicine." It's basically what happens when you have just one doc in the boondocks. It broadens the scope of practice. Now, for an FM doc to sew an ear back on in a city like Seattle - outside the scope of practice, why the **** didn't you get a real surgeon? Not gonna fly. In some parts of WA, 5 hour drive from a surgeon? You just tried to save an ear.

The ob/gyn clerkship director told me the idea of FM docs doing anything more than a "simple" vaginal delivery (a concept ob/gyn doesn't believe in for non-obs, as any delivery can go "wrong"), was ridiculous, as the ob/gyn spends 4 years training doing nothing but this type of medicine, and the FM doc only does a few months of ob/gyn. They summed up FM docs (without special fellowships) doing this, as "cowboy medicine." That's where I got the term. That's also were I sorta picked up one idea about what makes FM unique from, say, IM.

Let's just say I was privy to some lectures from both sides as to the differences in IM and FM philosophies, the history, and why it's a thang out west.

An IM doc can't fit the above bill in any meaningful way as I described it. I still see value in IM, it's distinct in philosophy, there's reasons to have it. Just saying.

TLDR:
there's an interesting reason there's such a "FM" movement out west
if you read the story, you might learn about FM and West coast medicine philosophy
But that's not really the case in desirable areas in California as resource density for specialties is probably adequate. You can say FM practice in rural areas is cowboyish because of necessity, but that happens in West Virginia and Maine as well.
 
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The cost burden in the Bay Area is definitely not insignificant. Before med school, I was paying $4000/mo for a small dump on the peninsula. My brother pays $5200 for a small but nice place in a borderline neighborhood in the city. If I make it home for residency, there is a very real possibility I will ask my parents if I can live with them...in my late 30s. Hubby is not a fan of this idea.

SoCal is less expensive though.

I'm in SoCal right now and have no desire to return for residency/life because of the cost and traffic. The knowledge that my tiny, already expensive STUDIO apartment will have likely have doubled in price in 4 years is too painful :cryi:
 
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I dont know how jobs for MDs work, I was under the impression that good jobs are usually word of mouth kind of thing, so doing a residency in california would make that infinitely easier. Plus I am kind of done with the winters in the midwest and my vitamin D level is in the dumps, so the added costs are worth it to me and my family.

This.
 
But that's not really the case in desirable areas in California as resource density for specialties is probably adequate. You can say FM practice in rural areas is cowboyish because of necessity, but that happens in West Virginia and Maine as well.
Well if we want to include desirable to mean weather(not the beach) then there certainly is a deficit in both specialties and primary care docs specifically in the Inland Empire(IE)-- Riverside, Colton, San Bern, and Redlands all suffer from a lack of docs even though it's technically SoCal-- Loma Linda Mecical Center pretty much has to treat a good chunk of Californians in this huge region!
 
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Well if we want to include desirable to mean weather(not the beach) then there certainly is a deficit in both specialties and primary care docs specifically in the Inland Empire(IE)-- Riverside, Colton, San Bern, and Redlands all suffer from a lack of docs even though it's technically SoCal-- Loma Linda Mecical Center pretty much has to treat a good chunk of Californians in this huge region!
Ah the Salton Sea. My favourite disaster tourism spot.
 
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SoCal is less expensive. OP, I don't know which you prefer but definitely check out LA, OC, Inland Empire (IE), and SD. If you want cheaper living and really only care about weather and not the beach/cultural amenities then look into the IE and a program like Loma Linda. There are also some non-academic programs in SoCal like St. Mary's in Long Beach which wouldn't be that unaffordable. Even some areas of OC aren't that expensive and a place like UCI would be feasible as long as you stayed away from living in the coastal cities.

At risk of invoking some anger (I feel like SDN is NorCal heavy) I'm going to go out on a limb and say that NorCal is not worth the price tag. Don't get me wrong, it is a lovely area, but not worth the financial consequences.

Thousand Oaks for the win!
 
You'll never make it past the interview stage for California residencies if you continue calling it Cali ;)

(jk) (but not really)

This was literally my first thought when I saw this thread!!

Another caveat, Southern Californian's don't typically say NorCal or SoCal, but actually tend to say Northern California and Southern California. ... Also, us Southern California's always say "the" before a highway, like in "take the 101", whereas nothern Californians always omit the "the" and say "take 101". At least, this is what I learned as a Southern California girl who went to college in Nothern California.
 
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THANK YOU! I'm so glad someone else has expressed this opinion. For many of us who grew up there, hearing people not from there calling it "cali" is like nails on a chalk board (although I hear some of the younger people saying it now). While on the subject, please no one call San Francisco "san fran" or worse, "frisco".

Lol... when I was in medical school one of my classmates was going on break to San Francisco and he kept calling it "Frisco", to the point of arguing with me that that's what it was called despite me being a Californian.


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This was literally my first thought when I saw this thread!!

Another caveat, Southern Californian's don't typically say NorCal or SoCal, but actually tend to say Northern California and Southern California. ... Also, us Southern California's always say "the" before a highway, like in "take the 101", whereas nothern Californians always omit the "the" and say "take 101". At least, this is what I learned as a Southern California girl who went to college in Nothern California.

Definitely true about the freeway designation. I was just talking about that last week with another Californian and trying to explain that to our medical student.


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take 101 makes no sense unless you're a movie director
 
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In central California we say take "highway 101" and "interstate 5". Obviously we are right about this. Just another example of how LA and "Frisco" ruin Cali
 
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This was literally my first thought when I saw this thread!!

Another caveat, Southern Californian's don't typically say NorCal or SoCal, but actually tend to say Northern California and Southern California. ... Also, us Southern California's always say "the" before a highway, like in "take the 101", whereas nothern Californians always omit the "the" and say "take 101". At least, this is what I learned as a Southern California girl who went to college in Nothern California.
Accurate
 
Genuine curiosity...why does it annoy Californians so much that people call it "Cali?" I've heard the same thing about calling Los Angeles "LA." Isn't California known for its affinity for abbreviation slang?
 
Genuine curiosity...why does it annoy Californians so much that people call it "Cali?" I've heard the same thing about calling Los Angeles "LA." Isn't California known for its affinity for abbreviation slang?

Cause when it's nice outside every day you need to find something else to be concerned about
 
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Genuine curiosity...why does it annoy Californians so much that people call it "Cali?" I've heard the same thing about calling Los Angeles "LA." Isn't California known for its affinity for abbreviation slang?

It doesn't annoy us, at least not all of us ;). I live in CA, and I literally can't remember the last time I heard someone say "Cali", whereas I hear people say "California" everyday. It's not that it's annoying, it's just that "Cali" sounds foreign to me.
 
It doesn't annoy us, at least not all of us ;). I live in CA, and I literally can't remember the last time I heard someone say "Cali", whereas I hear people say "California" everyday. It's not that it's annoying, it's just that "Cali" sounds foreign to me.

Yeah it doesn't annoy me either it just sounds very touristy or unsophisticated.

In reference to the user above who thought California was known for its abbreviated slang I have to admit I've never heard of that. It's definitely true of Australia and while California is known for it's slang, I can't say that I never noticed or heard that it's particularly abbreviated.


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SoCal is less expensive. OP, I don't know which you prefer but definitely check out LA, OC, Inland Empire (IE), and SD. If you want cheaper living and really only care about weather and not the beach/cultural amenities then look into the IE and a program like Loma Linda. There are also some non-academic programs in SoCal like St. Mary's in Long Beach which wouldn't be that unaffordable. Even some areas of OC aren't that expensive and a place like UCI would be feasible as long as you stayed away from living in the coastal cities.

At risk of invoking some anger (I feel like SDN is NorCal heavy) I'm going to go out on a limb and say that NorCal is not worth the price tag. Don't get me wrong, it is a lovely area, but not worth the financial consequences.
Dont go to Loma Linda unless your comfortable with their mandates on lifestyle (i.e no alcohol, no coffee, no soda, no athiests)
 
Dont go to Loma Linda unless your comfortable with their mandates on lifestyle (i.e no alcohol, no coffee, no soda, no athiests)

I don't believe residents are bound to the lifestyle agreement like medical students are.
 
Dont go to Loma Linda unless your comfortable with their mandates on lifestyle (i.e no alcohol, no coffee, no soda, no athiests)
I thought that was true for medical students, but I wasn't sure if it applied to residents.
 
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