Maximum attainable rank during military career

[Sean Lee]

I have an USUHS interview in September, and I am finishing up my HPSP application. Right now, I am strongly leaning towards making an entire career out of the military (work and stay in the military until they no longer want me anymore). Of course, this isn't set in stone, and things may change once I start the payback period.

I am wondering that if I decide to stay in the military well after the USUHS commitment of 7 years, what military rank can I reasonably aspire to achieve? I assume a rank of O-5 (lieutenant colonel) is almost guaranteed and a rank of O-6 (colonel) is also within reach. Am I correct? Also, how likely is it for me to wear a general's star in the military as a physician? I understand that there are very few general officer positions reserved for the military's medical personnel. Lastly, is military promotion at the O-6/O-7 levels entirely based on "playing politics" and the people you know/have connections with?

I know that I am getting a bit ahead of myself, but since it is virtually guaranteed that I'll become a military physician, I might as well ask some questions that will affect me down the road.

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[DrMetal]

Max rank? O-11: 5-star flag officer, I'm well on my way. It hasn't happened since the Korean War, Gen Bradley (I think?). Some say General Petraeus was going to be first 5-star of our time, but he got caught banging his biographer.

In the medical corp: if you stay in long enough, you can make O-5 or O-6. O-7 is not likely: there just aren't that many O-7 billets in the MC (as compared to other communities in the military). They're all administrative positions (head of hospitals, etc), and you have to compete for it very aggressively.

 

[Kilgoretrout 65]

A combination of taking on admin jobs, military education, politics, and staying away from trouble (flunking PT test, too fat, DUI, illegal moonlighting, fraternization etc etc) would normally get you promoted
to 0-5, maybe 0-6. But that varies with the times and even the service you choose. Recent Army docs trying to make 0-5 got some bad news recently, see the bloodbath post. It would take a lot of crappy jobs, a lot of time
and brown-nosing to make 0-7. Most docs just want to see patients, that's why you go to school/train. The problem is you don't get much promotion credit for being a good doc. One could even say the higher the rank, the worse doc you are but I have seen exceptions in all three services.

 

[HighPriest]

If you were a nurse, you could theoretically make it to Lt General as surgeon general of the "branchofservice". Doctors used to hold that position, but it seems more and more like getting above O-6 requires a level of brown-nosing, opinion-inserting, and dignity-tarnishing that a lot of physicians just can't match. And yes, you would no longer be seeing patients. I know of one physician that made it to Major General in 14 years. That's pretty damned fast.

 

[Chonal Atresia]

If you were a nurse, you could theoretically make it to Lt General as surgeon general of the "branchofservice". Doctors used to hold that position, but it seems more and more like getting above O-6 requires a level of brown-nosing, opinion-inserting, and dignity-tarnishing that a lot of physicians just can't match. And yes, you would no longer be seeing patients. I know of one physician that made it to Major General in 14 years. That's pretty damned fast.

Are you speaking of MG Richard "Tom" Thomas? He is one of very few exceptions to my previous posts. Great guy who looks out for physicians rather than trying to "please" his bosses. However as you stated in your post, he has not saw patients for nearly 10 years. You forgot to mention that when you make 07, you give up all your medical "bonuses" (I hate that word as it makes it seem like the military is giving us something special rather than actually sodomizing us like they do).

 

[HighPriest]

Are you speaking of MG Richard "Tom" Thomas? He is one of very few exceptions to my previous posts. Great guy who looks out for physicians rather than trying to "please" his bosses. However as you stated in your post, he has not saw patients for nearly 10 years. You forgot to mention that when you make 07, you give up all your medical "bonuses" (I hate that word as it makes it seem like the military is giving us something special rather than actually sodomizing us like they do).

Yes and agreed. While as I'm sure you know there was some reason for bias, he used to show up semi-regularly to our clinic, speak with the staff and residents, find out what was on our minds, and not infrequently changes would come about. But he is the exception to the rule by a long shot.

 

[idq1i]

Yes and agreed. While as I'm sure you know there was some reason for bias, he used to show up semi-regularly to our clinic, speak with the staff and residents, find out what was on our minds, and not infrequently changes would come about. But he is the exception to the rule by a long shot.

Change? Met him - IMO it was just about lip service. Never did anything worthwhile to benefit us.

 

[HighPriest]

Change? Met him - IMO it was just about lip service. Never did anything worthwhile to benefit us.

Well, I was speaking more directly about our specific service. And not sweeping changes, because that is impossible in the quicksand that is the Army. I can think of at least one instance where he directly saved someone's career. More than I can say for the rest of OTSG.

 

[idq1i]

Well, I was speaking more directly about our specific service. And not sweeping changes, because that is impossible in the quicksand that is the Army. I can think of at least one instance where he directly saved someone's career. More than I can say for the rest of OTSG.

Understand. I was thinking of the global disgruntled medical corps. The only thing he concerned himself with during his visit to my site was how many people did CCC. The other stuff was "Hmm... I see how that may be a problem, let me have my manservant CPT write that down"

 

[Sean Lee]

A combination of taking on admin jobs, military education, politics, and staying away from trouble (flunking PT test, too fat, DUI, illegal moonlighting, fraternization etc etc) would normally get you promoted
to 0-5, maybe 0-6. But that varies with the times and even the service you choose. Recent Army docs trying to make 0-5 got some bad news recently, see the bloodbath post. It would take a lot of crappy jobs, a lot of time
and brown-nosing to make 0-7. Most docs just want to see patients, that's why you go to school/train. The problem is you don't get much promotion credit for being a good doc. One could even say the higher the rank, the worse doc you are but I have seen exceptions in all three services.

Could you elaborate a bit on that? Are you saying that army docs have trouble making O-5?

 

[Perrotfish]

Could you elaborate a bit on that? Are you saying that army docs have trouble making O-5?

Army and Navy Docs, yes. Its been a competitive promotion board for about half a dozen years now. At this point the only promotion that is really guaranteed is O-4, after that there is a 50-80% change of making 0-5 and just barely a 50% chance of making O-6

 

[Sean Lee]

Army and Navy Docs, yes. Its been a competitive promotion board for about half a dozen years now. At this point the only promotion that is really guaranteed is O-4, after that there is a 50-80% change of making 0-5 and just barely a 50% chance of making O-6

I see. So if someone cannot advance past O-4, will he be forced to retire? I assume that the seven year commitment would be over before the promotion period of an O-4?

 

[Perrotfish]

I see. So if someone cannot advance past O-4, will he be forced to retire? I assume that the seven year commitment would be over before the promotion period of an O-4?

No to both. If you make O-4 you can complete a 20 year career, so at least at the moment no physician will ever actually be forced out of the military before retiring at 20 years with a pension. Also the O-4 promotion happens at the 5-6 year mark. If you do a military residency you should finish as an O-4

 

[Sean Lee]

No to both. If you make O-4 you can complete a 20 year career, so at least at the moment no physician will ever actually be forced out of the military before retiring at 20 years with a pension. Also the O-4 promotion happens at the 5-6 year mark. If you do a military residency you should finish as an O-4

Wait, are you saying that you'll become a Major by the time you finish residency?

To my understanding, you get promoted to Captain the moment you graduate and start residency. Assuming a 4-year residency, you'll be promoted to Major in that time? Seems pretty quick.

 

[Perrotfish]

Wait, are you saying that you'll become a Major by the time you finish residency?

To my understanding, you get promoted to Captain the moment you graduate and start residency. Assuming a 4-year residency, you'll be promoted to Major in that time? Seems pretty quick.

No, I'm saying that if you do a residency and therefore stay for 7 years (3 years residency + 4 years obligation) you will be a major before you finish your obligation (2-3 years after you finish residency).

 

[colbgw02]

No to both. If you make O-4 you can complete a 20 year career, so at least at the moment no physician will ever actually be forced out of the military before retiring at 20 years with a pension. Also the O-4 promotion happens at the 5-6 year mark. If you do a military residency you should finish as an O-4

We should be careful about speaking in superlatives, considering the Air Force just had to call for volunteers for early separation in order to avoid RIFing physicians.

 

[HighPriest]

We should be careful about speaking in superlatives, considering the Air Force just had to call for volunteers for early separation in order to avoid RIFing physicians.

This is like a unicorn. If it hears you talking about it, it'll disappear forever. Everybody just stop talking about it.

 

[Sean Lee]

Since we are talking about military medicine/career, I have a question about all those lovely (but confusing "special pays"). I don't want to start a separate thread for this.

To my understanding, all military physicians get paid a base salary, BAH (if not living on base), and BAS based on his/her rank and time in service. The base salary, BAH, and BAS are the same across the uniformed services, so a lieutenant colonel EM doctor gets the same pay as a lieutenant colonel commander of a combat battalion.

Now, military physicians also receive all sorts of "special pays" such as ISP, ASP, and a bunch of other acronyms. From what I've read on many SDN threads about military medicine, it seems that these special pays are often not paid to physicians for all sorts of arbitrary reasons (such as pissing off a commanding officer, and line officers in charge to dispensing paychecks feeling jealous that physician officers are paid more than they are)! Also, many people complain on SDN that their special pays are never paid on time! Are these allegations true? It is hard for me to believe that a major government organization (such as the military) has trouble paying salaries on time. In my impression, only private, poorly-run, and about to go bankrupt companies have trouble paying their employees on time.

I would appreciate if current military physicians can shed some light on these issues. More specifically, how prevalent is it that physicians aren't being paid their entitled pays?

 

[Perrotfish]

Since we are talking about military medicine/career, I have a question about all those lovely (but confusing "special pays"). I don't want to start a separate thread for this.

To my understanding, all military physicians get paid a base salary, BAH (if not living on base), and BAS based on his/her rank and time in service. The base salary, BAH, and BAS are the same across the uniformed services, so a lieutenant colonel EM doctor gets the same pay as a lieutenant colonel commander of a combat battalion.

Now, military physicians also receive all sorts of "special pays" such as ISP, ASP, and a bunch of other acronyms. From what I've read on many SDN threads about military medicine, it seems that these special pays are often not paid to physicians for all sorts of arbitrary reasons (such as pissing off a commanding officer, and line officers in charge to dispensing paychecks feeling jealous that physician officers are paid more than they are)! Also, many people complain on SDN that their special pays are never paid on time! Are these allegations true? It is hard for me to believe that a major government organization (such as the military) has trouble paying salaries on time. In my impression, only private, poorly-run, and about to go bankrupt companies have trouble paying their employees on time.

I would appreciate if current military physicians can shed some light on these issues. More specifically, how prevalent is it that physicians aren't being paid their entitled pays?

Your special pays are guaranteed by law and your CO does not have the power to deny them arbitrarily, or even as a punishment after you are convicted of a crime. I have never seen a thread or heard a rumor about a board certified physician denied special pay.

Yes the pays are annual and are frequently late (months late) because they sign the budget late. Maintain an emergency fund and it won't be an issue.

 

[Sean Lee]

Your special pays are guaranteed by law and your CO does not have the power to deny them arbitrarily, or even as a punishment after you are convicted of a crime. I have never seen a thread or heard a rumor about a board certified physician denied special pay.

Yes the pays are annual and are frequently late (months late) because they sign the budget late. Maintain an emergency fund and it won't be an issue.

So the special pays are frequently late? But they are always paid (or retroactively paid), right?

Also, are the base pay, BAH, and BAS ever late? It won't make much sense for national security if your basic rank-and-file soldier can't expect a steady paycheck.

 

[Perrotfish]

So the special pays are frequently late? But they are always paid (or retroactively paid), right?

Also, are the base pay, BAH, and BAS ever late? It won't make much sense for national security if your basic rank-and-file soldier can't expect a steady paycheck.

Yes they are always paid. The base pay, BAH, and BAS are always on time unless there if a true government shutdown, and since those don't last long they are never more than two weeks late. The special pays are bonuses paid annually, and they are frequently later than expected but they are paid. Since they are a once a year bonus there is no retroactive pay, you just get the whole bonus a few months later.

 

[Sean Lee]

Yes they are always paid. The base pay, BAH, and BAS are always on time unless there if a true government shutdown, and since those don't last long they are never more than two weeks late. The special pays are bonuses paid annually, and they are frequently later than expected but they are paid. Since they are a once a year bonus there is no retroactive pay, you just get the whole bonus a few months later.

But say that bonuses are supposed to be paid in December of each year. If you didn't get paid your 2012 bonus until March 2013, will you still get your 2013 bonus?

Also, are all special pays paid annually? Isn't there monthly special pays as well?

 

[Sean Lee]

Not to be overly cynical, but I've read many articles on how the military/government won't hold its end of the bargain/contract when paying bonuses.

 

[ArmyTiger]

So the special pays are frequently late? But they are always paid (or retroactively paid), right?

Also, are the base pay, BAH, and BAS ever late? It won't make much sense for national security if your basic rank-and-file soldier can't expect a steady paycheck.

If you're interested in a military (or government) career, now would be a good time to forget the idea of things "making sense."

 

[Perrotfish]

Not to be overly cynical, but I've read many articles on how the military/government won't hold its end of the bargain/contract when paying bonuses.

I think what you are referring to is theory, common on this board, that the military will suddenly stop paying these bonuses at some point in the future, because of budget cuts. I'm not sure if its justified cynicism or not but its certainly never happened before. If it did happen it would need to be a decision made at a national level, your CO will never have anything to do with it.

Really one of the oddest things about the military is that you sign a contract that details exactly how long you're not allowed to quit for, but they don't commit to any specific pay scale. They can stop giving rate of inflation raises, they can cut your bonuses, they could even theoretically stop paying you entirely and you would still be legally obligated to work for them. I don't think it will happen, but at the same time it is another strong argument not to take more than a 4 year obligation.

 

[Sean Lee]

I think what you are referring to is theory, common on this board, that the military will suddenly stop paying these bonuses at some point in the future, because of budget cuts. I'm not sure if its justified cynicism or not but its certainly never happened before. If it did happen it would need to be a decision made at a national level, your CO will never have anything to do with it.

Really one of the oddest things about the military is that you sign a contract that details exactly how long you're not allowed to quit for, but they don't commit to any specific pay scale. They can stop giving rate of inflation raises, they can cut your bonuses, they could even theoretically stop paying you entirely and you would still be legally obligated to work for them. I don't think it will happen, but at the same time it is another strong argument not to take more than a 4 year obligation.

Or 7 years for USUHS.

But in all honesty, even if I am only paid the regular salary of line officers, I still think the pay is pretty adequate. I don't have any expensive tastes/hobbies, and I'll have no debt whatsoever.

 

[HighPriest]

Or 7 years for USUHS.

But in all honesty, even if I am only paid the regular salary of line officers, I still think the pay is pretty adequate. I don't have any expensive tastes/hobbies, and I'll have no debt whatsoever.

That is inexperience talking. Every few months someone comes along talking about how they don't care all that much about the pay. You will.

 

[Sean Lee]

That is inexperience talking. Every few months someone comes along talking about how they don't care all that much about the pay. You will.

Yeah, you're most likely right.

And do you start getting bonus/special pays in residency? Or do all the extra $$$ only come after board certification?

 

[colbgw02]

And do you start getting bonus/special pays in residency? Or do all the extra $$$ only come after board certification?

Not being in residency =/= board certified, especially in military medicine.

MASP - available to all physicians not in residency.
ISP - available to all physicians beginning 3 months after residency completion
BCP - paid to all board-certified physicians
VSP - paid to all physicians

MSP is a different animal and more complicated. I'll never sign for it, so I never really bothered to understand the rules completely. However, you're not eligible for it until you've served in the medical corps for at least 8 years, so you'll have plenty of time to figure it out.

 

[sonofva]

I am currently a transitional year intern and my current leave and earnings statement shows that I am getting VSP OF 416.66. Overpaid? Should I call finance?


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[colbgw02]

I am currently a transitional year intern and my current leave and earnings statement shows that I am getting VSP OF 416.66. Overpaid? Should I call finance?


Posted using SDN Mobile

Assuming this is not your first internship (in which case, I'm not really sure of the rules)...

Depends. I mean, they're definitely overpaying you, but whether or not you want to bring attention to their mistake is up to you. Even if it's only a few bucks, you can benefit from the time value of money by making a little dough from this "loan". Is that ethical? Probably not, but if the situation were reversed, they wouldn't hesitate to screw you. Regardless, don't spend the money. Chances are they'll come looking for it eventually.

 

[Sean Lee]

I just find it incredibly exciting that I have a very good chance getting accepted by USUHS and start a career as a physician/officer. Maybe I am being naive, but it doesn't hurt having an optimistic view towards the future.

 

[az19]

No to both. If you make O-4 you can complete a 20 year career, so at least at the moment no physician will ever actually be forced out of the military before retiring at 20 years with a pension. Also the O-4 promotion happens at the 5-6 year mark. If you do a military residency you should finish as an O-4

You know, if the people at top are not promoting, and now the influx of O3s has been increasing, I can see quite soon that even O4 might not be so guaranteed, I think like 75 to 85 percent at first in zone look might be norm for a while when the perfect storm hits.

 

[colbgw02]

You know, if the people at top are not promoting, and now the influx of O3s has been increasing, I can see quite soon that even O4 might not be so guaranteed, I think like 75 to 85 percent at first in zone look might be norm for a while when the perfect storm hits.

I don't think it works like that. In the medical corps, I believe that selection for O-5 and beyond is "competitive", whereas it is not for O-4. That is, for O-4, the question asked is "has the officer done XYZ?" Whereas, for O-5, it's "how does the officer compare to his peers?"

 

[denali]

Me personally, I would make the call. I was (unbeknownst to me) paid the wrong BAH my first year on active duty. Painful when they cut off your pay to get their money back.

Quite right. Been there myself RE: overseas COLA, and went to bat in vain for my soldiers for problems with advance pay, allotments, and BAH screw-ups.

When DFAS figures out the mistake (and they will), no matter how many days/months/years from now, they will (depending on when they figure it out) deduct up to $3800 all at once from your pay. No repayment plan, no warning, no f*cks given about your cash flow issues.

Bottom line: check your LES every month and get problems corrected ASAP.

 

[HighPriest]

Quite right. Been there myself RE: overseas COLA, and went to bat in vain for my soldiers for problems with advance pay, allotments, and BAH screw-ups.

When DFAS figures out the mistake (and they will), no matter how many days/months/years from now, they will (depending on when they figure it out) deduct up to $3800 all at once from your pay. No repayment plan, no warning, no f*cks given about your cash flow issues.

Bottom line: check your LES every month and get problems corrected ASAP.

Agreed. They will eventually find out. Likely not until your next PCS, and by then it'll be a big bill.

 

[Sean Lee]

Agreed. They will eventually find out. Likely not until your next PCS, and by then it'll be a big bill.

Wait, so if the individual is overpaid $400 something, why would they deduct up to $3800 from the paycheck? Penalty?

 

[sonofva]

Wait, so if the individual is overpaid $400 something, why would they deduct up to $3800 from the paycheck? Penalty?

So I'm supposed to be getting paid 100, they're paying me 416. Take 316 times 12 months



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[Vandalia]

On the rank issue:

At this time the maximum rank a member of the Medical Corps can obtain is Lieutenant General/Vice Admiral (O-9). There used to be just one in each service - the Surgeon General. It also used to be law that the Surgeon General had to be a physician. That is no longer the case, and I believe the Army Surgeon General is a nurse. For some reason that I could never figure out, Army nurses seemed to have far more power than their counterparts in the Air Force and Navy. Maybe it was the M.A.S.H. TV series... Recently, a couple of additional joint O-9 positions have been created - the Director of the Defense Health Agency and the commander of medical facilities in the DC area. (The joint DC position may have been transferred to the DHA.) As the push for "purple suiting" military medicine moves slowly forward, it is possible that a medical O-10 (full) General/Admiral position might be created.

The top realistic rank is Colonel/Captain (O-6). Twenty years ago, an AF line officer once said that 3 out of every 2 physician make Colonel. That is apparently no longer true, and it seems promotion rates are getting to be the same as for line officers.

Promotion to Brigadier General/Rear Admiral boils down to luck - or being at the right place at the right time. To give an idea of that, the promotion rate from Lt Col to Col is ~50/60%. The promotion rate from Colonel to Brigadier General is about 0.1% Way back when, I knew a guy who had an average career and decided to take one last cushy job in Tampa, FL before he retired. Then something called Desert Storm happened. As CENTCOM surgeon, he ended up being promoted to Brigadier General.

It used to be that as a physician if you stayed in and were not kicked out you were pretty much guaranteed (O-5), Lieutenant Colonel/Commander. That has become less true as time passes. However, if you are promoted to Major, you will generally have enough retainability to reach the 20 year minimum retirement time.

On special pays, I think I had one occasion when the paperwork (signed agreement) got lost or delayed. Other than that there were never any problems. While a commander does (or did) have to sign the agreement, trying to pull some sort of power-play would guarantee an investigation. Once appointed, those investigators were like the old DC Special Prosecutors - once appointed they could investigate any wrongdoing they come across even if completely unrelated. That very threat is usually enough to deter all but the most bone-headed commander.

So that is a general over-view. Others can give the more current practical details.

 

[Sean Lee]

So I'm supposed to be getting paid 100, they're paying me 416. Take 316 times 12 months



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I see. So they overpaid you 300+ a month for 12 months...

 

[Sean Lee]

On the rank issue:

At this time the maximum rank a member of the Medical Corps can obtain is Lieutenant General/Vice Admiral (O-9). There used to be just one in each service - the Surgeon General. It also used to be law that the Surgeon General had to be a physician. That is no longer the case, and I believe the Army Surgeon General is a nurse. For some reason that I could never figure out, Army nurses seemed to have far more power than their counterparts in the Air Force and Navy. Maybe it was the M.A.S.H. TV series... Recently, a couple of additional joint O-9 positions have been created - the Director of the Defense Health Agency and the commander of medical facilities in the DC area. (The joint DC position may have been transferred to the DHA.) As the push for "purple suiting" military medicine moves slowly forward, it is possible that a medical O-10 (full) General/Admiral position might be created.

The top realistic rank is Colonel/Captain (O-6). Twenty years ago, an AF line officer once said that 3 out of every 2 physician make Colonel. That is apparently no longer true, and it seems promotion rates are getting to be the same as for line officers.

Promotion to Brigadier General/Rear Admiral boils down to luck - or being at the right place at the right time. To give an idea of that, the promotion rate from Lt Col to Col is ~50/60%. The promotion rate from Colonel to Brigadier General is about 0.1% Way back when, I knew a guy who had an average career and decided to take one last cushy job in Tampa, FL before he retired. Then something called Desert Storm happened. As CENTCOM surgeon, he ended up being promoted to Brigadier General.

It used to be that as a physician if you stayed in and were not kicked out you were pretty much guaranteed (O-5), Lieutenant Colonel/Commander. That has become less true as time passes. However, if you are promoted to Major, you will generally have enough retainability to reach the 20 year minimum retirement time.

On special pays, I think I had one occasion when the paperwork (signed agreement) got lost or delayed. Other than that there were never any problems. While a commander does (or did) have to sign the agreement, trying to pull some sort of power-play would guarantee an investigation. Once appointed, those investigators were like the old DC Special Prosecutors - once appointed they could investigate any wrongdoing they come across even if completely unrelated. That very threat is usually enough to deter all but the most bone-headed commander.

So that is a general over-view. Others can give the more current practical details.

So in order the get any bonus money, your CO has to sign off on it? Is this on a yearly basis?

 

[Sean Lee]

Yes, and you also require a CO signoff when you reapply to a residency, if you go out GMO.

However, that is basically a formality.

I see. But just out of curiosity, if the bonus pay is guaranteed by law/contract, what's the reason behind having a CO sign off on it?

 

[denali]

https://hr.mods.army.mil/SpecialPay/Documents/Index.htm

 

[Sean Lee]

https://hr.mods.army.mil/SpecialPay/Documents/Index.htm

Gave me a headache...

 

[Sean Lee]

I haven't read the applicable pubs, but presumably it is to verify that your performance has been up to standard, and that your overall conduct as a physician and officer merit the payment of a bonus.

Well that does makes some sense. You get your base pay/BAH/BAS no matter how ****ty of a job you do, but you are only entitled to "bonus" and "special" pay if you do a decent/good job.

But in practice, everyone gets their bonus/special pay, right? I mean, what's to prevent a capricious CO from giving you a poor performance review, hence preventing you from getting your special pay?

More cynically, what if a CO doesn't want a physician ranked under him/her making more money than he/she does?

 

[Perrotfish]

Well that does makes some sense. You get your base pay/BAH/BAS no matter how ****ty of a job you do, but you are only entitled to "bonus" and "special" pay if you do a decent/good job.

But in practice, everyone gets their bonus/special pay, right? I mean, what's to prevent a capricious CO from giving you a poor performance review, hence preventing you from getting your special pay?

More cynically, what if a CO doesn't want a physician ranked under him/her making more money than he/she does?

Generally your pay is guaranteed by law, and no one from the CO to the surgeon general has the discretion to affect your pay in any way. If the CO is signing off on your bonus, chances are that means that he's signing off that you meet whatever the (clear, written) requirements are for the bonus, not that he thinks you're worth paying the bonus to.

If anyone else has experienced a different scenario, I would love to hear about it.

 

[Sean Lee]

I have never encountered that, nor have I heard of it happening. My experience has been that the character of military officers is, on average, far in excess of the average civilian. I have worked for capricious commanders, and malignant commanders, but at the end of the day, all were honest men.

I find it hard to believe that a person can be malignant and honest at the same time. Is he honest about his malignant intentions? If so, then that's a terrible person to work under.

I've seen posts on SDN where individuals state that they were threatened by their COs over payment of bonuses. I've also heard many incidents where these pays are frequently delayed.

 

[colbgw02]

Generally your pay is guaranteed by law, and no one from the CO to the surgeon general has the discretion to affect your pay in any way. If the CO is signing off on your bonus, chances are that means that he's signing off that you meet whatever the (clear, written) requirements are for the bonus, not that he thinks you're worth paying the bonus to.

If anyone else has experienced a different scenario, I would love to hear about it.

This is right, I think. They're generally making sure that you are credentialed and privileged in accordance with the stipulations of the contract. Even a referred OER or non-promotable status aren't enough to put the skids on your bonus.

 

[Vandalia]

I mean, what's to prevent a capricious CO from giving you a poor performance review, hence preventing you from getting your special pay?

More cynically, what if a CO doesn't want a physician ranked under him/her making more money than he/she does?

What would you do if your Medical School Dean refused to write the "Dean's Letter"?

What would you do if a department refused to report a grade for your MS-3 rotation?

Pretty simple, actually. You make a phone call and there is an investigation.

Every member of the military has the right to appeal an administrative act (or failure to act) by a commander. (GROSS generalization, but this isn't the place for a multi-page treatise.)

Remember, your commander wants to get promoted - or at the very least move on to a better assignment. Certainly, not be the subject of a headline on Stars and Stripes or the Air Force (insert service) Times that he was relieved since his superior "lost confidence in his ability to command."

Also, the investigator, once appointed, has the ability to investigate ANY misconduct he finds. This is sort of like Ken Starr and the "special prosecutors" appointed in Washington in the 80's and 90's. Believe me, the last thing any commander wants is an outside investigator snooping around who has an essentially unlimited mandate.

 

[idq1i]

I see. But just out of curiosity, if the bonus pay is guaranteed by law/contract, what's the reason behind having a CO sign off on it?

1 - To verify your continued eligibility, to include no unfavorable actions and continued unrestricted licensure
2 - To trap you in your job in your last year for 3+ months. The ISP (the largest $$$ sum) contract starts 3 months after you come on active duty. If you come on as most people in July and you sign the contract in the last year, you get to be on AD through October. Fellowship/Job vs. pay.... up to you