Mayo vs Yale

Discussion in 'Pre-Medical - MD' started by Max8, Mar 23, 2007.

  1. Max8

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    So, I have a good friend who has been recently accepted to Mayo (with a full scholarship) and to Yale (no scholarship). It really isn't me (though, sometimes, I wish it were) But anyways, he's somewhat SDN-shy and has been debating about which would be a better school to go to overall. Does anyone have opinions about this? Personally, I think you can't really beat the Yale name/reputation and that the debt incurred won't be a huge deal compared to the outcome.... But it'd be nice to get other people's opinions.
     
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  3. QuantumMechanic

    QuantumMechanic Avatar=One of the Greats
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    Mayo all the way, unless location is a major issue.
     
  4. Orthodoc40

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    Mayo, definitely.
     
  5. Towelie

    Towelie Resident Towel
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    New Haven may be one of the few locations out there worse than Rochester.

    Tell your "friend" to go to Mayo.
     
  6. eurozo

    eurozo ...
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    The real question is "Will he qualify for financial aid at Yale and if so, how much?" The scholarship vs. no scholarship thing doesn't really mean much without knowing how much Yale will actually cost him. I know people who have gotten more than "a full ride" worth of financial aid, so a cost comparison can't be made with the information given.

    Also, aside from the geography thing, there is a major difference in class size, so he needs to consider whether the pros of around 30-something students per class(more interaction in class in the pre-clinical years, etc.) will outweigh the cons (possibly claustrophobic social atmosphere, etc.)
     
  7. Zippership

    Zippership the Burninator
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    Yalie here. New Haven blows. After four years there, I'm pretty eager to get out. That said, I've heard the grad school / prof. school people travel a lot more and get out of the city. There are a number of really quaint little CT towns in the vicinity and you're an hour by train from NYC. I go into NYC all the time and it's very easy to get back and forth - try doing that from Rochester. As to your friend's decision, I don't know a thing about Mayo but Yale is a very academic place. I imagine that if he/she's interested in basic science research and academic medicine, Yale would be a great place for him/her. Oh, also, a huge advantage of Yale is the proximity of the other arms of the university. Having Yale School of Music, Yale College, Yale School of Art, and Yale Drama School nearby means there's a high concentration of quality music and arts in the region. There's never a lack of things to do on the weekend or during the weekday and you have access to tons of culture for free or for a small nominal price. Also, for a small city, there's an unusually high concentration of great restaurants. That said, outside of the "Yale bubble" as we call it, there's not too much to the city itself. It's an incredibly small, insulating environment, although I'm not sure Rochester would be much better.
     
  8. thesmartazz

    thesmartazz Sleepy College Student
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    Another Yalie here. I'm going to have to disagree. I've liked New Haven a lot, and I applied to Yale med after going to undergrad there for 4 years. During the upcoming month and a half, I will seriously consider staying in New Haven.

    That said, the geographical location where your friend is coming from matters a lot. I lived in the suburban south for most of my life, and going to New Haven was a great change. It's a small, manageable city, and the med school culture is wonderful. And the food is great, too, even though I haven't been able to afford a lot of the fancier places on a college student's budget! Virtually every single Yale med student whom I've talked to is happy, and I think that says a lot. (Maybe they're also happy because of the ridiculous match list... haha...) The City is only 1.5 hours away by train, so weekend trips are not hard to make at all.

    Zippership is right in that there definitely is a "Yale bubble," which consists of the few blocks surrounding campus. During my undergrad years, I've really tried to get out of the area, and I have done a lot of community service and advocacy work. It has been extremely fulfilling, and I think that I've grown a lot as a person through it. If your friend is not the type of person who will want to engage social problems, get off campus, etc., then perhaps New Haven isn't an ideal location. However, if the HAVEN Free Clinic, for instance, is the type of place where your friend would feel right at home, then Yale may be a wonderful choice.

    But location aside, the financial aspects of this decision seem really important, so definitely have your friend fill out Need Access now. It's a huge pain in the ass...
     
  9. pyrois

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    Fill out need access ASAP.

    Full ride at Mayo still costs you $13,000/year ($11,000 room and board + $2000 computer fee).

    Unit loan at Yale costs you $17,000/year.

    When it comes down to a $4,000/year difference, and the fact that you NEED a car at Mayo and don't need a car until rotations at Yale, cost becomes negligible.

    Ignore the financial aspect until financial aid comes about and assess the schools directly.

    As a plus, Yale's match list this year was so crazy I felt nauseated after viewing it.

    If he hits up the unit loan, I'll have to cast my vote for Yale in this case despite being quite a fan of Mayo.

    If he hits up nothing... go to Mayo:p
     
  10. lina123321

    lina123321 ralph: im a unitard
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    u should set up a poll...my votes goes to mayo
     
  11. Shadowboricua

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    na
     
    #10 Shadowboricua, Mar 24, 2007
    Last edited: Jan 23, 2010
  12. pyrois

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    Oh yeah:p Although I wasn't aware you could get grant aid for the computer fees. That would be cool.
     
  13. Max8

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    The financial aid stuff is an interesting point--but, wouldn't financial aid just mean debt to be paid off later?? Whereas the Mayo money is a true scholarship, not a loan.

    I don't think he (my "friend" as Towelie puts it---not sure if the quotes means I may not have friends or the person might be me---) will qualify for financial aid that isn't loans...does Yale give any sort of aid that doesn't have to be paid back later anyways? Any academic scholarships?

    Thanks for all the feedback, I've never been to Rochester but I have been to New Haven quite a lot.....interesting to hear people's opinions of it.
     
  14. pyrois

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    Yale is renowned for their financial aid. As one of the folks told me on interview day "we don't really need your money, we just want a show of commitment on your part to your medical education." When I say $17,000 unit loan, it means the other $40,000/year is covered by grants, aka you don't have to pay them back later/free money/scholarship.

    Although you do have to write thank you letters to the donors. Personally, I'll bake them apple pies and snickerdoodles:p

    Unfortunately if you are rather wealthy (200k+/year), they don't have non-need-based aid, so that may sway your decision.
     
  15. Max8

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    He's from a midwestern smallish city but went to undergrad in a big city (also not on the East Coast).... As far as I know he's only been to New Haven that once for the interview, so the whole "New Haven Sucks vs New Haven's Not-So-Bad" argument is important.
     
  16. pyrois

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    New Haven seemed actually very nice to me. Then again I'm not much into nightclub/bar scene. I prefer little coffee shops, music, and theatre for my entertainment. It's a matter of taste I think.
     
  17. Mr. Tee

    Mr. Tee Indentured servant
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    You and I have similar tastes good sir. I didn't see anything wrong with New Haven.
     
  18. Max8

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    Does this mean Yale won't even give subsidized loans through the Fafsa like most other medical schools offer? Because, having to include one's parent's information on the finaid forms can make it look like one is wealthy when in fact you might need full aid in loans to cover the tuition. By "aid" I guess that I mean "loans" in this case.
     
  19. pyrois

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    Oh, they still offer subsidized loans. I forget all the different names, but your friend would probably know/have the info in his folder. They're all standard sorts of loan soarces for the most part.
     
  20. melissainsd

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    I have to post in any sort of Mayo vs (fill in the blank). Go to the other school (in this case Yale)...I need your Mayo spot :p
     
  21. byong_soo

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    mayo for sure
     
  22. mrs.smith

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    another Yalie here... I liked New Haven and your friend will be studying, not sightseeing
     
  23. Stolenspatulas

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    id go to mayo, kinda wish i applied after scoping the website out...
     
  24. Max8

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    wow, i'm kinda surprised how much this is all coming down in favor of Mayo...? Aren't there any people who want to make a hardcore case for Yale or for New Haven? During my interview there it really didn't seem so bad and I think New Haven's proximity to other big East Coast cities is a definite plus over Rochester.... What about curriculum and/or prestige differences? I think my friend wants to keep his options open for the competitive ortho/rads/neuro programs... would the Yale name make a noticeable difference over Mayo?
     
  25. NovemberWhiskey

    NovemberWhiskey Junior Member
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    Interesting, this thread is getting a totally different set of replies (Mayo) than the Case vs. Harvard thread is.. (Harvard).

    Is it because Mayo/Yale are a closer comparison than Harvard/Case and therefore the cost issue edges Mayo up while not making as much a difference for Case?

    Max8, please let me know what your friend decides to do, I'll be interested to hear his choices/reasons...
     
  26. 8744

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    Your friend is an idiot. I guess Mayo is just some dumpy Caribbean medical school.

    I swear, until you mentioned it, I didn't even know Yale had a medical school (and I didn't care, either).
     
  27. sunnyjohn

    sunnyjohn Got Mustard?
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    Repeat after me, "Free money is good."

    The rat bazztids who run this racket are giving you free money before they screw you over in residency. Take it.

    Your friend should go to Yale. Melissainsd wants his place (and scholarship) at Mayo.

    (I'm being sarcastic for those who don't get it) :smuggrin:
     
  28. pyrois

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    To be honest, they are so close (ignoring the financial factor) that it's hard to say either way. It really depends on your personal preference. Needless to say, the Mayo people are absolutely fantastic, but I haven't had a chance to meet the Yale people in force.

    Gaaaaah, stupid decisions! Why can't we live in Soviet Russia. In Soviet Russia, you don't pick school, school pick you! Oh wait... that's kind of what happens here too...
     
  29. weathertalk

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    Well, I think Yale and Mayo are very close for a number of reasons

    Yale has the ivy league razzle dazzle among the hoi polloi. However, most doctors would laugh so hard that they'd piss themselves if you even tried to compare Yale Hospital to the legendary Mayo Clinic.

    As far as location, Rochester and New Haven both suck like a dirt devil. NYC "is" accessible from New Haven. However, the disadvantage is that you have to live with poor crack-selling people where rochester doesn't have that problem.

    I think it comes down to this... If you like basic science research and dont' mind training at an unranked hospital, go to Yale. If you are willing to sacrifice name recognition among commoners, but want to be able to train at the best hospital in the world (except for hopkins maybe), go to Mayo
     
  30. Max8

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    Ok, so, most people would agree that the clinical training at Mayo is far superior to Yale? Does this translate into better Residency matches?
     
  31. pyrois

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    If you want to match back into Mayo or the mid-west, then yes.

    If you want to match elsewhere, then no.
     
  32. Auscultate

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    If it is full-ride at Mayo versus loans at Yale, then it would be a no-brainer for me, I'd say take the money and go with Mayo.
    However, if the money is not the issue, it's Yale all the way...
    Yale is an amazing place to be for med school. While the Yale system may not be for everyone, they have an incredible group of students with a lot of diverse experiences and interests which makes for a great atmosphere. You will learn what you need to know but in a relaxed (as much as possible) atmosphere. Coming out of Yale, you will be able to match into your choice of residency program (assuming you don't totally slack off). Just take a look at their match list.
    As for New Haven, it is really not bad at all. The down town area has been rejuvenated with a lot of bars/lounges/clubs and there are a wide variety of restaurants available. If you wish new York is just 1.5 hours away.The reputation for crime in the city is not the reality. It may have been so some years ago but it's not the case. As with any city, you have to be careful of certain areas.
    Also going to Yale med, you are part of the whole of Yale university so you can get to interact with people from all of the schools - law, business, Drama, undegrad, whereas Mayo is not even a university. Sure, Mayo clinic is a more renowned hospital than Yale-New Haven, but for what you need as a med student you'll come out equally trained from both places as a student but a Yale degree would go further all things being equal.
     
  33. footcramp

    footcramp Senior Member
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    Just spend one winter in Rochester. If you aren't taking SSRIs by March, consider yourself lucky. Anyone who would willingly live four years in Rochester Minnesota is an IDIOT.
     
  34. SuziQ

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    i say mayo, wow. I was there as a PATIENT and it was absolutely incredible. Go for Mayo
     
  35. Stolenspatulas

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    wow. please enlighten us with more of your wonderful posts.
     
  36. weathertalk

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    Yes, because New Haven is a shiny, sunny paradise.
     
  37. Darkshooter326

    Darkshooter326 Senior Member
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    I would probably choose Yale, if I was so lucky, because the class size is larger, and it is relatively close to a major city. (Twin Cities doesn't count :laugh:) Those are things important to me, maybe not important to others.

    And personally, I think the Yale name is stronger. Someone earlier said they didn't know Yale had a med school, and while everyone knows the Mayo clinic has an amazing hospital, I am sure many people don't know they teach medicine.
     
  38. pyrois

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    Prior to the application process, I couldn't tell you for certain if any university or hospital outside of CA had a med school associated with it:p

    No joke:p
     
  39. Xibye

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    Mayo all the Way-o!
     
  40. SupergreenMnM

    SupergreenMnM Peanut, not chocolate
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    I was in this position last year.

    For me, I chose before I even knew about financial aid (and I'm poor). I chose Mayo...for several reasons. First, I like the small class size and incredible amount of personal attention the students get. Second...the names, both have excellent reputations, however to the common person and to a lot of docs the Mayo name is second to none ANYWHERE, while the Yale name sometimes has a negative conotation. Third, location: both are close to major metropolitan areas. Both have major drawbacks (Rochester=cold, New Have outside Yale bubble sucks...so either way you're in a bubble, lol). Also, Mayo has a reputation for matching a good number of their students into some of their own world class residency programs. Finally, I would have done poorly in Yales system, which is supposed to let people go at their own pace...I like structure though and work better with it, others may be different so thats a very personal thing.

    Ok, last again, as it turned out Mayo gave me a full tuition scholarship and I only need about 10k a year in substidized loan to cover the rest. Yale didn't give much, I would've gotten some grant but would have needed money beyond their unit loan :scared: and all in all would have ended up with more typical medical student debt.

    Oh, last thought...from everyone I've talked to (MDs, Residency Directers, etc.) and 100% said the clinical experience you can get at Mayo is second to none world wide, not just compaired to Yale. :)
     
  41. Boris Badenov

    Boris Badenov Member
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    I'm sorry, but after seeing this discussion, I felt compelled to chime in here. Yale's match results are SIGNIFICANTLY stronger than Mayo's. By a VERY LARGE margin. This discussion about Mayo's apparent clinical superiority is either: A) misguided, B) dubious and exaggerated, or C) totally irrelevant in light of Yale's far better residency placement.

    While he should obviously consider finances and wait for that financial aid package, if his primary objective is to go to the place that helps his career most, he would be crazy to turn down Yale. Program directors are obsessed with pedigree, and very few medical schools will take him as far as Yale will based on name alone. It's in a totally different league than Mayo.
     
  42. Auscultate

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    Errmm, I beg to differ here...but to the "common person" the Yale name is far stronger than Mayo (isn't that something you put on a sandwich? ;) ). And I don't know what "negative connotation" you're talking about.
    The Mayo Clinic is definitely considered one of the premier HOSPITALS in the world, but it is a different ball game when we are talking about medical SCHOOLing. And as someone already mentioned, Yale has an awesome match list every year with their students going into top residency programs.
    If you are from the midwest or want to stay in that area for residency and practice then Mayo would be a good choice - otherwise, all things being equal I would go with Yale.
     
  43. jbar

    jbar Senior Member
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    I think worrying about what's the "best school overall" isn't that productive. Once you are talking about the top 10 or 20 schools the real question is what's best for the individual student. Med school is tough, lots of work and diffecult transitions. So your friend should be going where he/she feels most at home. They've interviewed at both, seen the schools and met some students. It's really a question of where they see themselves. Yeah, I go to Yale, I really like it here. But that's just because the school is a good fit with my work style, my family location, my clinical interests, etc. Your friend should go to the second look weekends, or call some students at both schools and figure out where they're going to be happy. Screw the match rates and reputation in the comunity
     
  44. Max8

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    Thanks for all the great feedback we're (my friend and I) getting from this thread! It seems to be widely contested whether the Mayo name or the Yale name would be better just for recognition value. Some are claiming the Yale has a better match list---does anyone have objective statements about this point? It also seems like the Yale and Mayo programs have pretty different styles, which is a big factor to consider....
     
  45. etf

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    mayo, even if location were an issue. hell i'd go there if the school was inside a huge jar of mayo.
     
  46. pyrois

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    If the student in question knew which place was best for him, his friend wouldn't be going to a forum of complete strangers to pit the schools against each other:p

    Hence, match rates and reputation in the community (us) matters:)

    Regarding match lists, one of the great things about Yale is that it's old. Mayo, on the other hand, is hardly older than I am. The medical school comes in at a little over 30 years old.

    As a result, when applying for residency, none of the residency directors even knew about Mayo when they applied to med school. They have no "old friends" from Mayo. They themselves are not from Mayo. With only 42 graduating students per year, most choosing to stay at Mayo or return to their home states for residency, most of the coastal hospitals have never seen a Mayo medical student, hence they cannot say that Mayo produces good students.

    That all being said, Mayo is a great place, and come another 100 years, it will likely rise to the top 10 in the rankings. Already, it is the youngest school in the top 25. The second youngest school in the top 25 is Baylor, which has a 70 year head start on Mayo. I think 70 years will allow Mayo to show it's worth. Until then, it will match mostly back into its own hospital.
     
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  47. omegaxx

    omegaxx New Member
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    What I'd be looking at, if I were in your shoes (a nice pair of shoes to be in, mind you:D), is whether the Yale curriculum will work for me. It is a very unique curriculum, under which I, personally, probably won't get much work done.
     
  48. SupergreenMnM

    SupergreenMnM Peanut, not chocolate
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    Perhaps it depends where you live, in the midwest/mountain west where I have all my experience (note, none on either coast) Yale has a definate negative connotation and I'm actually surprised anyone (other than someone at Yale) is not aware of that.

    I conceed the point about Yale being older, however, they Mayo clinic itself is very old even if the school is newer and I believe that offsets this a lot.

    Last, I interviewed at both places and got into both places, and chose the one that I felt offered the superior educations (Mayo). Thats a personal choice for each person as they are very different atmospheres, but it no where near how you say with them being in different leagues:confused:

    Either way, it will come to a personal choice as to which he thinks will serve him better; obviously not everyone is so convinced of Yales superiority ;) nor Mayo's so it, as always when two schools are even, comes down to personal preference.

    At very worse, you can rely on matching back to mayo, whose residency programs in almost everything are very good.
     
  49. alcatraz

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    Just to shed some light on residency matching and so forth. As someone who knows how the process went down this year, I will tell you that almost all the students from this year's graduating class at Mayo had their pick of programs. Almost everyone matched to their first choice (40/42). For many their first choice was Mayo Clinic, way before MGH, Brigham, Hopkins, etc. On that note, I can say from experience that several who stayed at Mayo got the "I'm calling/writing to let you know you were ranked to match...are in the top 3 ranked applicants...,best applicant we've had to our program this year.. etc" from MGH, BWH, JHH, UCSF etc (myself being one of them).

    Secondly, going to Mayo Medical school certainly does NOT lock anybody into any program at Mayo. Several of the programs at Mayo, especially those that are very highly desired and ultra-competitive on a national/international level (i.e. ortho, neurosurg, ent, radiology, derm) are extremely competitive whether or not you go to medical school there. So for the student who said "At very worse, you can rely on matching back to mayo," you better publish, ace your rotations and smack the **** outta Step 1 if you wanna match into something competitive at Mayo (sorry to be the bearer of the truth).

    Thirdly, as far as program directors not knowing "old friends from Mayo." If you've been to national meetings you will soon realize, the top-dogs on the American Board/College of (insert any specialty here), either are on staff at Mayo or trained at Mayo at some point in their careers (ESPECIALLY in the surgical arena). The staff at Mayo are some of the absolute leaders in their respective fields. Chances are, if you're not at Mayo, MGH, Hopkins, or UCSF -- the guy writing your letter of rec from your school (even at Yale) probably wishes he was boyz with the department heads at the Mayo Clinic.

    That said, I'm sure Yale is a great institution and I think you can't go wrong with either choice. But to say that you would somehow be disadvantaged at Mayo is just ludicrous. Bottom line -- if you've got the scores, the grades, the research, and the effort, with names like Mayo or Yale following you -- you're gonna be kicking ass and taking names on the match trail no matter what. But I will say, having rotated at, and having gone to some of the highly touted places on here during the residency interview circuit, Mayo Clinic, to me, is one of the best training programs in the country - period. As for med school, go where you'll be happy. If that's New Haven, CT go, if it's Rochester, MN go. Truth be told, both towns aren't anything to call home about if you're into fine dining or the best hip-hop clubs (but Rochester is certainly one of the nicest and most convenient places to live if you don't mind travelling out for your dance club fix). If you want the proximity to NYC, heck, why live in New Haven??? Go to Columbia or Cornell.
     
  50. pyrois

    2+ Year Member

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    Sorry, should have been more specific.

    "Old friends from Mayo Medical School."

    Plenty of folk from Mayo Clinic.
     
  51. Long Dong

    Long Dong My middle name is Duc.
    10+ Year Member

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    Go to Mayo, it is like no place else in the world. I said this before, George Bush, Kings and foreign dignitaries can choose to get medical treatment anywhere they want. Where do they choose to get treated at, The Mayo Clinic.
     

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