MCAT a necessity?

[HoCk]

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I just wrote the MCAT...and scored pretty
poorly..I got 8vr/7ps/9bs/p writing
my GPA is 3.81...
but I was wondering if there were any american schools that don't require you to write the MCAT, which means that I would only need to use my (pretty good) GPA

 

[ask698]

The only one I can think of off the top of my head is John Hopkins. I recommend you check the MSAR for others. Hopkins does require at least one standardized test score, so you would need to submit SAT, ACT or GRE scores if you do not want them to see your MCAT scores. Also keep in mind that your scores for whatever exam you submit would need to be very competitive, becasue, even though they do not require the MCAT, Hopkins' average MCAT score is 11.3 and the average GPA is 3.83. Also keep in mind that Hopkins is a non-AMCAS school so you'll need to contact them directly to request an application. Hope this helps.

Tony

 

[HoCk]

ok.....ya...that helps a lot..
its just that I am from Ontario..and I don't really have (or need) any standardized scores here...so all I have is the mcat.
kinda ****ty...since I would have to submit that......is there any place that lists all of the non-mcat affiliated schools?
I've been looking EVERYWHERE...but can't find any....

ALso...anyone know if I should even bother to apply w/ my ****ty MCAT scores or should I just write it again? would writing again go against me?

 

[GeoLeoX]

You can count on the fact that any school that doesn't require the MCAT is going to have VERY high expectations of its candidates otherwise. Unless one has cured cancer or is Albert Schweitzer, I don't see much of a chance for the average student.

G

[This message has been edited by GeoLeoX (edited 10-27-2000).]

 

[turtleboard]

Hopkins and, I believe, Rochester both don't require an applicant to take the MCAT, in which case they want to see an SAT, ACT, or GRE, like the other poster mentioned.

HOWEVER, they both want the MCAT scores if the applicant HAS taken the exam. So you're going to be asked to submit it to them should you apply. And, if you're already thinking about it, you can't get away with not giving it to them because they'll get it from AMCAS.

Other than those two, all US MD and DO medical schools require the MCAT for admission. Even St. George's University requires an MCAT. The only Island School that I can think of that has any kind of reputation and doesn't require the MCAT is Ross University.

But your scores aren't that bad. Are you considering re-taking the MCAT? Or, as you Canadians say, re-writing the MCAT? Aye? A note about re-taking the MCAT: Unless you significantly improve your scores, re-taking the MCAT won't make an ounce of difference in your chances of getting into med school. By "significant" I mean you'd have to score a composite that was 4 to 5 points above (MAYBE just 3 would do it) what you currently have. My premed advisor in college once told me that research conducted by a bunch of premed advisors somewhere showed that even students retaking the MCAT and significantly improving their scores didn't gain comparable acceptance rates to students who took it once and are "score-matched." There's also the added threat of you scoring the SAME or LOWER on the second shot, and that could very well screw you over more than it would help. In college my premed advisor use to remind all the students studying for the MCAT: Study hard now, take it once and only once, and PRAY that you'll do well.

My advice is to work with what you have now, or retake it and pull that score up by at least 5 points to make yourself competitive. What are the averages at the med school(s) in Ontario?


Tim of New York City
(who has relatives in British Columbia and find their "Canadian-speak" somewhat irritating)

[This message has been edited by turtleboard (edited 10-27-2000).]

 

[psi1467]

I'm pretty sure that I read that Johns Hopkins was requiring MCAT scores this year for the first time.

 

[bereave]

CORRECTION!

Rochester and Ross DO require MCAT scores! I recently met with my advisor and checked Rochester's website and they do indeed require MCAT scores of all applicants. Ross University recently held a general interest meeting in Boston and make specific mention that MCAT scores were required of all applicants. Thought I'd sharpen the answer!

Have a great weekend all!

 

[HoCk]

well up here in canada its pretty different..
because....here's the deal up here..
basically... if u do bad on the MCAT..
you can try it again (according to rules of AAMC) and the med schools will only look at your most recent MCAT score...so basically if you get all 4's the first time then second time around get all 13's..
they only look at 13's...and don't even notice or care that you wrote it 5 times..
or wutever..
BUt..
there is like TONS of essays and questions to write and the interview process is pretty hard....also dont' bother applying unless your GPA is above 3.7...
so its hard in other ways..

I mean...just because you had a bad day writing one exam doesn't mean it should go against you in applying for med school in the future.....I guess its not the same in the US...since they take the average or wutever.....and strangely enough...it seems that the average acceptance GPA's are lower...
oh well...I guess I'll just stick with applying up here..

 

[HoCk]

oh yA...ALSO in ontario...there are 3 med schools that don't even look at MCAT..
but you need freaken amazing marks...
and have to prove why you deserve to exist as a human being....basically

not too many positions for foreigners (sorry fellow americans)
I think its maybe b/c of our different health care system...they want canadian doctors to stay in canada....or wutever
I am REALLY suprized that there isn't ONE..
non-aamc affiliated med school
.....tell me thats not a money makin monopoly!!!

 

[turtleboard]

I sincerely doubt the AAMC profits much, if at all.

It's not as if Canada is its own country. It's the fifty-first state for crying out loud!

Just kidding. Don't send the mounties after me, aye!


Tim of New York City.

 

[Willow]

Tim, what's with the "aye" thing? I live in BC and have never heard anyone say that who wasn't a Scottish tourist.

BTW, my boyfriend is a New Yorker, and says I have no detectable "accent". I think he has one, however.

Willow,

who doesn't say "aye", "eh", or "aboot".

 

[Ian Wong]

Hmph!

Last I was in New York (two years ago), I wasn't all that impressed with your city's accent either! 😛 Although G*d damn, flying into the city, and seeing buildings and streets for the last 10 minutes of air time before landing was a heck of an eye-opener.

Anyway, HoCK, as far as I know, there's only one Ontario medical school that doesn't ask for the MCAT, that being McMaster. The other four, U of Toronto, U of Ottawa, University of Western Ontario, and Queens University all require the MCAT, and require you to score relatively highly.

Unless you are an American citizen, I wouldn't expect you to have an easy time applying to US schools. You'd be applying as an international student, without state residency, which pretty much rules out going to the inexpensive state schools. That leaves the expensive private schools, which I believe ask for relatively high MCAT scores.

I'd re-write the MCAT, but first try to figure out why the results weren't there.

Ian, MS2 and proud Vancouver-ite
Premed Advice Page
www.geocities.com/mdpremie

PS: And no, we don't actually say "eh?" at the end of our sentences except to mess up the Yank tourists that come up each summer because of our pitiful exchange rate...

 

[MSepo]

BTW, ask698:
Hopkins is not non-AMCAS. I don't know when they switched but you do currently have to apply to that school through the application service.

 

[Djanaba]

Just one minor thought: You may have an easier time if you are a Native North American student. There are a few med schools who actively recruit these students (Dartmouth used to, U of MN - Duluth still does). While they are held to the same scrutiny as all other applicants, they are also more willing to look at your non-MCAT strengths.

 

[gower]

A major qualification to Djanaba's post.

"Native American" has a specific meaning. It refers to what we commonly call American Indian. And you can't just say you are that. They usually ask for documentary evidence of tribal affiliation. Djanaba is correct that some med schools, such as Dartmouth and several in the mid-west, actively try to recruit Native Americans. Too many applicants in the past, who claimed "minority" status, were not, so US medical schools look more carefully at identity claims.
US medical schools do not consider Canadians
foreign students. Canadian citizens who apply are regarded as if they are Americans.
I don't know if Canadians appreciate being lumped with us south of the border, but take advantage of it anyway.

 

[HoCk]

wow...I totally didn't know that we were equally considered...I just thought foreign was foreign.....but I'm sure that in state people are given presidence...just like up here....so its always easier to apply to your own state...

 

[Cobragirl]

Willow....don't be so defensive about your accent!! Some of us LIKE accents! I work with a guy from Canada, and personally, I love it when he says "aboot" and "eh"! My husband is from Maine, and I can tell you honestly that when I first met him it was his accent that hooked me! Be proud of where you're from...there's no shame in having an accent! Hell, I grew up in Texas and now live in north Florida....Texas accent mixed with good 'ole Southern Belle! (and married to a "yankee"

)

Although I have a good education and "know better", words like "ain't" and "ya'll" are a big part of my speaking vocabulary and I'm not the least bit ashamed of it! Don't feel like you have to defend WHO you are!!!

[This message has been edited by Cobragirl (edited 10-28-2000).]

 

[ask698]

MSepo,

Thanks for clarifying that Hopkins is AMCAS now. I was just going of the top of my head from what I remember when I looked into the school a couple of years ago and Hopkins was not on my list when I applied this year (couldn't see myself living in Maryland), so I was unaware of the updated information. I do believe that the rest of the info was correct, but please correct me if I was wrong.

Tony

 

[Willow]

Originally posted by Cobragirl:
Willow....don't be so defensive about your accent!! Some of us LIKE accents! I work with a guy from Canada, and personally, I love it when he says "aboot" and "eh"! My husband is from Maine, and I can tell you honestly that when I first met him it was his accent that hooked me! Be proud of where you're from...there's no shame in having an accent

LOL, I wouldn't be defensive, Cobragirl, if I had one!

In Canada, as in the USA, accents are regional. In my experience, the "eh" and "aboot" talk is prevalent among those who live up north, and some Eastern provinces. Just as a Southern drawl is not representative of how all Americans speak, neither is the "Canook" accent of Canadians.

I am quick to point this out (what you construed as defensive) because many Americans harbor misconceptions about Canada. Having travelled in the States quite a bit, I'm often asked why I don't speak "like that" (was I educated in the States?) I have also been asked, in all seriousness, if I live in an igloo.

There is also the Canook that frequents American television. My favorite was an episode of Frasier, when the characters decided to drive up to Canada from Seattle. Out in the wild, they stopped in a gift shop run by a lumberjack-type, and had their picture taken with a moose head. This only a few hours north of Seattle! In reality, they would have been in the heart of Vancouver, one of the world's most metropolitan cities, where I live (and where, incidentally, it never snows.)

Anyone who wants to understand where I'm coming from should check out the clips on the following pages -- hilarious commercials that pretty much say it all.

I am Canadian

No Doot Aboot It

No Doot Eh

Willow (with sense of humour intact)


[This message has been edited by Willow (edited 10-28-2000).]

 

[Ian Wong]

Hi,

Gower: Do you know where on the web I could look that up? My understanding was that being a Canadian that didn't attend a US undergrad university puts one at a large disadvantage when applying to US med schools.

Does this mean that as a Canadian, I have the same chance of entering a US med school as an out-of-state American applicant?

Ian, MS2
Premed Advice Page
www.geocities.com/mdpremie

 

[turtleboard]

I've always wondered about the status of Canadians applying to US med schools too, but have never found anything regarding that in the MSAR or anyplace else.

The flight into New York through LaGuardia is a GREAT ride through the entire city. I think the approach actually covers all five boroughs!

I had a conversation with a friend of mine who has a degree in linguistics. Apparently some scholars believe that the Southern drawl we northeasterners dreadfully hate is actually the original spoken American English. As for accents, some are more tolerable than others.

My experience in London wasn't unlike the Jerry Seinfeld American Express commercial. I saw those Molson commercials, but was wondering what you guys call a "couch?" It was mentioned in the "I am Canadian" commercial, but I couldn't make it out.

By the way, Willow, what most people call the "New York accent" is more of a "Long Island accent." New York has such an infusion of out-of-towners that most New Yorkers don't have an accent, and practically all pronounce words like broadcast journalists. "Gonna" and "wanna" are now part of the national vernacular, I believe.

Tim of Brooklyn,
minus the accent and the attitude.

[This message has been edited by turtleboard (edited 10-29-2000).]

 

[gower]

Ian, I can't say where it appears in MSAR, but I have known that for years. Canadian medical schools, incidently, are accredited by the same group that accredits US medical schools. Americans who earn MDs from Canadian medical schools are eligible for licensure in the US as if they had graduated from a US medical school. They are not foreign graduates here. However, McGill has been about the only Canadian med school that regularly accepted some Americans. The others are like many of our own state schools who take mostly or only state/province students.
I had a student once from Canada (Manitoba I think) who married an American and so she attended my college. She still retained her Canadian citizenship but her degree was from the US.
I would try some US schools if I were you. Probably mostly, if not all, the private ones. You might first try those states that border Canada. I assume you took your premedical courses in the US, which might make it easier anyway for you to apply to US schools.
If you have access to medical school catalogs, in your premedical advisor's office perhaps, or college counseling office, or library, look at the back pages. Many, not all, med schools give lists of students in each of past four years' classes, or first year class only, and where they are from and where they attended college. Look for Canadians. That may give you some leads. But keep in mind that the rosters you see are those students who were accepted AND chose to attend. More were accepted, but went elsewhere. I hope this helps.

 

[MDreamer]

I recall reading somewhere that Canadians are considered foreign students to all US medical schools and therefore have a decreased chance of being accepted. In other words, if you are not a US citizen then you are considered foreign no matter what.