MCAT and non-native English speakers

[Taty]

I just need to vent...

My father was "very supportive" he told me that because I am in the USA
less than 5 years I will never pass MCAT and I will never get accepted to
the USA medical school. Well, I have a green card, I came to the USA
4.5 years ago. I also have 2 degrees from US University,I have 3.64 Undegrad and 3.78 Grad GPA,I was working 2 jobs while studying, making my way through the college, I do research and blah,
blah,blah My Kraplan tests were good but I psyched out in August and got 24P
So,I retook it in April...

Now, he keeps telling me that I will not make it,that I am in a big disadvantage,plus I am a woman and nobody takes women to surgery (he thinks so)
It's all getting on my nerves...

Sometimes I feel that he is right and I have to just give up everything...

People...does anybody know someone who was in the US less than 5 years passed MCAT and got to med school?

Any comments please...

I am sorry my dad gets on my nerves ...I just need to vent...I cannot just hold it anymore and play happy and self-confident....

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[gujuDoc]

Wow that sucks.

If you are a permanent resident, then you should still apply, and apply to a broad range of schools.

I don't necessarily think that being in the country less then a few years, as a non native english speaker, means you won't do as well.

I used to have a good friend in highschool who had just moved there when I went to school with him. Over the course of his undergrad career he did well and got a 35 on the MCAT. Maybe that it out of the norm, but it does not mean it is impossible to do well.

The one thing a lot of non-native speakers need to do is read a lot more. Most non-native speakers hate even trying to read any English books. But reading is the key to developing better English skills.

 

[Taty]

I am trying to read a lot... in August I got 8 on verbal,but i missed 3 passages-did not have time to complete them ,therefore,when they called 5 minutes left I put "Cs" and "Bs" . In April I completed everything in time,but again it does not mean that i have right answers...

 

[iraqiamerican]

no dont let people make excuses for yourself. You have to be stronger then that. I went throught what you are talking about as well, but I grew out of it and stopped making excuses for myself. Just do your best. Thats all one can do.

 

[gujuDoc]

I am trying to read a lot... in August I got 8 on verbal,but i missed 3 passages-did not have time to complete them ,therefore,when they called 5 minutes left I put "Cs" and "Bs" . In April I completed everything in time,but again it does not mean that i have right answers...

Wait it out and see how you did. Some places, not all, but some places do take the best subscores from different administrations. USF did that for a friend. I believe Tufts may do that as well. But I'm not sure on Tufts. I've just heard that from someone long ago.

 

[Taty]

no dont let people make excuses for yourself. You have to be stronger then that. I went throught what you are talking about as well, but I grew out of it and stopped making excuses for myself. Just do your best. Thats all one can do.

I do not make any excuses i do not complain about my MCAT score and stuff,I just want to meet people in the same boat ...ONCE AGAIN I DO NOT MAKE ANY EXCUSES

 

[gujuDoc]

no dont let people make excuses for yourself. You have to be stronger then that. I went throught what you are talking about as well, but I grew out of it and stopped making excuses for myself. Just do your best. Thats all one can do.

They weren't making excuses so much as venting about people who have little faith in them.

 

[Taty]

no dont let people make excuses for yourself. You have to be stronger then that. I went throught what you are talking about as well, but I grew out of it and stopped making excuses for myself. Just do your best. Thats all one can do.

if u really went through the same thing u would not post something like that u would understand me

 

[Mikhail]

Hi there,

Don't worry, you're not the only one in such position. I had been in the country for 4 years by the time I took the MCAT (this April) and I did not know English when I came to the country. I know exactly how it feels when you read a passage and cannot follow what's going on. But, as I can see from what you wrote, you're an optimist and have already achieved what most people cannot achieve in the whole life. If you keep the same pace, you'll be a doctor really soon! Also, don't you want to prove you father that he is totally wrong?!!!
About a woman in surgery. 30 years ago your father would have been correct saying that there are no women in surgery. This is untrue nowadays. I’ve been volunteering in surgery department at one of New York's leading hospitals. I have gone to a lot of operations. I cannot say that there are as many women as men, but there are plenty of them. Moreover, there are a lot female surgical residents at this hospital. So, you'll be a surgeon for sure. By the way, what kind of surgeon do you want to be?
Good luck!!!
Mikhail

I just need to vent...

My father was "very supportive" he told me that because I am in the USA
less than 5 years I will never pass MCAT and I will never get accepted to
the USA medical school. Well, I have a green card, I came to the USA
4.5 years ago. I also have 2 degrees from US University,I have 3.64 Undegrad and 3.78 Grad GPA,I was working 2 jobs while studying, making my way through the college, I do research and blah,
blah,blah My Kraplan tests were good but I psyched out in August and got 24P
So,I retook it in April...

Now, he keeps telling me that I will not make it,that I am in a big disadvantage,plus I am a woman and nobody takes women to surgery (he thinks so)
It's all getting on my nerves...

Sometimes I feel that he is right and I have to just give up everything...

People...does anybody know someone who was in the US less than 5 years passed MCAT and got to med school?

Any comments please...

I am sorry my dad gets on my nerves ...I just need to vent...I cannot just hold it anymore and play happy and self-confident....

 

[Taty]

Hi there,

Don't worry, you're not the only one in such position. I had been in the country for 4 years by the time I took the MCAT (this April) and I did not know English when I came to the country. I know exactly how it feels when you read a passage and cannot follow what's going on. But, as I can see from what you wrote, you're an optimist and have already achieved what most people cannot achieve in the whole life. If you keep the same pace, you'll be a doctor really soon! Also, don't you want to prove you father that he is totally wrong?!!!
About a woman in surgery. 30 years ago your father would have been correct saying that there are no women in surgery. This is untrue nowadays. I’ve been volunteering in surgery department at one of New York's leading hospitals. I have gone to a lot of operations. I cannot say that there are as many women as men, but there are plenty of them. Moreover, there are a lot female surgical residents at this hospital. So, you'll be a surgeon for sure. By the way, what kind of surgeon do you want to be?
Good luck!!!
Mikhail

I want to go to oncology, as I understood this is subdivision of general surgery. By the way when you applied last year or applying now?

 

[isabelle18]

I have actually known a number of people who've lived in the US for less than 4 yrs and have been accepted into great med schools. Some of them got great MCATs, even better than those who were born here. My friend, for example, completed college in 3 yrs, took the MCAT, applied to med schools and now she's just completed 1st. year in Harvard. So, yes, it is possible...

 

[theblastopore]

I am trying to read a lot... in August I got 8 on verbal,but i missed 3 passages-did not have time to complete them ,therefore,when they called 5 minutes left I put "Cs" and "Bs" . In April I completed everything in time,but again it does not mean that i have right answers...

Hi,
I think I'm in almost the same boat as you are with a few differences:
1) I've been in the USA for a little bit more than 10 years (my highest PRACTICE verbal score was 8, and I got a 5 and a 6 on the last two practice test--STILL WAITING FOR APRIL MCAT SCORE)
2) I didn't go to graduate school
3) I took 5 years to complete my BS (in computer science) and spend two more years taking prerequisites for med school
4) I didn't work much during college

So I think you are an exceptional student, and you'll succeed. I think you can still get into med school with other two scores (PS and BS), work experience, and GPA making up for the 8 in VR.

Good luck

 

[Taty]

Thank you everyone for the kind words and GOOD LUCK!!!

 

[Hakashi]

Now, he keeps telling me that I will not make it,that I am in a big disadvantage,plus I am a woman and nobody takes women to surgery (he thinks so)
It's all getting on my nerves...

Sometimes I feel that he is right and I have to just give up everything...

Your father is right in a sense. It is much harder for a woman to get into surgery than a man. First, women retire earlier than men. Second, women work less hours per week than men do. Third, women have children and take time off and then return only to work part-time.

If English is not your first language, I hate to break it to you, but Verbal on the MCAT is going to spank your ass.....

 

[Taty]

Your father is right in a sense. It is much harder for a woman to get into surgery than a man. First, women retire earlier than men. Second, women work less hours per week than men do. Third, women have children and take time off and then return only to work part-time.

If English is not your first language, I hate to break it to you, but Verbal on the MCAT is going to spank your ass.....

Well...i think that all things that you wrote here depends from the woman, maybe it is wrong but i am not family oriented...

and about the verbal...i got 8 already which is not that bad considering that i am non-native english speaker, well i would be happy with the 8 again as long as my other scores are higher

 

[iraqiamerican]

if u really went through the same thing u would not post something like that u would understand me

I am sorry if I sounded in a wrong way. I was just trying to say you cant see yourself at a disadvantage compared to people born here (Even if its true.) Because when that mentality goes in your head, you start to give up on things easier (this is what happend with me.)

So I hope the best for you.

 

[Taty]

I am sorry if I sounded in a wrong way. I was just trying to say you cant see yourself at a disadvantage compared to people born here (Even if its true.) Because when that mentality goes in your head, you start to give up on things easier (this is what happend with me.)

So I hope the best for you.

yea we all are in the same boat

 

[Hakashi]

Well...i think that all things that you wrote here depends from the woman, maybe it is wrong but i am not family oriented...

and about the verbal...i got 8 already which is not that bad considering that i am non-native english speaker, well i would be happy with the 8 again as long as my other scores are higher

hello taty.

Whether you are family oriented or not is irrelevant. When you go into the interview they will see you are a woman, and immediately 'part-timer' will pop into their heads. If the school is a big surgical residence facility, you will be at a disavdantage no matter what you do.

If you are getting 8 now that's good especially for someone who doesn't speak english well. If you can do well on the other 2 sections, the 8 won't hurt you that badly.

 

[Taty]

hello taty.

Whether you are family oriented or not is irrelevant. When you go into the interview they will see you are a woman, and immediately 'part-timer' will pop into their heads. If the school is a big surgical residence facility, you will be at a disavdantage no matter what you do.

If you are getting 8 now that's good especially for someone who doesn't speak english well. If you can do well on the other 2 sections, the 8 won't hurt you that badly.

i was thinking they are welcoming women and minorities...but they can think everything they want, i dont care...it is not going to discorage me...

 

[Mikhail]

Hey Taty,

I heard a story yesterday about a girl who left Russia with almost graduating from medical school. She transfered a lot of classes and completed an undegrad. degree in 2 years here. She took the MCAT and you won't believe me: she got 14 in physical, 13 in bio and 4 in verbal sections. She sent out secondaries and she got 1 interview. She went there and explained that she had been in the country for 4 years and she had already achieved a lot by that time. She got in!!! She is a 3rd year resident right now.
Don't listen to people who say that you won't be able to become a surgeon.
Mikhail.

P.S.
BTW, what does it mean that you're not family oriented You don't want to have a husband and children .... I thought it's a natural instict for most animals.

i was thinking they are welcoming women and minorities...but they can think everything they want, i dont care...it is not going to discorage me...

 

[Hakashi]

i was thinking they are welcoming women and minorities...but they can think everything they want, i dont care...it is not going to discorage me...

You thought wrong. People are now becoming fed up with the amount of women in medicine, because pretty much all of them end up going part-time. This is unfair to men who could still be working full-time who were not able to get into medical school.

 

[Taty]

You thought wrong. People are now becoming fed up with the amount of women in medicine, because pretty much all of them end up going part-time. This is unfair to men who could still be working full-time who were not able to get into medical school.

well I assume that you are a guy....

dont worry i work as hard as u do to get to medical school...

 

[Taty]

Hey Taty,

BTW, what does it mean that you're not family oriented You don't want to have a husband and children .... I thought it's a natural instict for most animals.

Well not now

Thanks for the story it sounds really inspiring

 

[gujuDoc]

You thought wrong. People are now becoming fed up with the amount of women in medicine, because pretty much all of them end up going part-time. This is unfair to men who could still be working full-time who were not able to get into medical school.

Excuse me!!!! Not all women are working part time. Most the female doctors that I know work full time and have almost always worked full time.

 

[Hakashi]

well I assume that you are a guy....

dont worry i work as hard as u do to get to medical school...

Hello Taty.

The question is not if you are going to get into medical school, but in regards to surgical residencies. The fact is, women are much more likely to go on part-time than men. Period. When you apply to a surgical residence, if you have a man and a woman applying, the man will be chosen because if this fact. Whether you personally agree or disagree is irrelvant.

I'm sure you work very hard, as do all other premedical students to get into medical school. I'm sure if you continue your work ethic you will get in. However, we are not talking about medical school, we are talking about post-MD residencies....

 

[Hakashi]

Excuse me!!!! Not all women are working part time. Most the female doctors that I know work full time and have almost always worked full time.

Hello gujudoc.

The fact is women retire earlier than men do, work less hours per week, and take maternity leave. Period. A surgeon must be on call when starting pretty much 2/3 of the year and work long hours. Whether you agree or not, surgical residencies are hesitant to take women when they have men who are also applying.

Surely you can admit many female doctors become part-time after their first child is born?

I don't want to turn this into a male vs female thread. I am just stating facts to the orginal poster about why it is going to be very hard for her to become a surgeon of any kind.

 

[Taty]

Hello gujudoc.

The fact is women retire earlier than men do, work less hours per week, and take maternity leave. Period. A surgeon must be on call when starting pretty much 2/3 of the year and work long hours. Whether you agree or not, surgical residencies are hesitant to take women when they have men who are also applying.

Surely you can admit many female doctors become part-time after their first child is born?

I don't want to turn this into a male vs female thread. I am just stating facts to the orginal poster about why it is going to be very hard for her to become a surgeon of any kind.

Well...I did overcome the obstacles that were more difficult...this is not going to stop me at all, i do not care about other women surgeons...

I know surgeon who has 3 kids and never worked part-time....by the way it is female....

 

[gujuDoc]

Hello gujudoc.

The fact is women retire earlier than men do, work less hours per week, and take maternity leave. Period. A surgeon must be on call when starting pretty much 2/3 of the year and work long hours. Whether you agree or not, surgical residencies are hesitant to take women when they have men who are also applying.

Surely you can admit many female doctors become part-time after their first child is born?

I don't want to turn this into a male vs female thread. I am just stating facts to the orginal poster about why it is going to be very hard for her to become a surgeon of any kind.

Listen, you need to stop making generalized and disgusting insulting statements to others. First you make blanket statement to that poster that was giving a hypothetical situation about their MCAT scores. And then to this poster.

Women are capable of everything men are capable of doing. If there are less women in surgery, that is not because they are less hesitant but because they chose not to go into it of their free will.

If there are more women being accepted, that's because there are also more women with good scores and ECs outdoing men in the process. Or its because at certain areas, there are less men applying then females.

Last but not least, none of the women physicians I have known through my parents have taken to working part time. In fact, in many of those house holds, the men work less, and the women run their practice or both are physicians and work equally hard.

So I suggest you get your f***ed up facts straight. Women are not taking anything away from men. They work equally hard to get where they want to be.

As it is, men are still the majority of surgeons, so why you are acting all insecure about this one female wanting to be a surgeon is beyond me.

If she can make it and do it, then good for her.

 

[gujuDoc]

Oh and one more thing, don't assume that how some women live their lifes means that all women live their life a certain way.

I actually had a very good friend here at USF, Arsenic knows her since she's at med school with him now. Anyhow, she wants to be a general surgeon and chose to not have children so that she can focus on her career. Her husband is quite ok with it.

Is your next generalization going to be that all women should have kids??? That women should be barefoot and pregnant while the man runs the household????? Get off of it.

 

[gujuDoc]

Hello Taty.

The question is not if you are going to get into medical school, but in regards to surgical residencies. The fact is, women are much more likely to go on part-time than men. Period. When you apply to a surgical residence, if you have a man and a woman applying, the man will be chosen because if this fact. Whether you personally agree or disagree is irrelvant.

I'm sure you work very hard, as do all other premedical students to get into medical school. I'm sure if you continue your work ethic you will get in. However, we are not talking about medical school, we are talking about post-MD residencies....

Since you are not in medical school, have never applied to residency, don't know how many women have actually applied to surgical residencies, etc. I suggest you not make such sweeping generalizations.

The fact is not that they are hesistant to take women over men, so much as that many women personally CHOOSE NOT TO DO SURGERY OUT OF THEIR OWN FREE WILL. Those that do choose to do surgery do get chosen if their board scores and med school grades, etc. are good.

 

[Taty]

As it is, men are still the majority of surgeons, so why you are acting all insecure about this one female wanting to be a surgeon is beyond me.

If she can make it and do it, then good for her.

Agree, probably the guy just sees me as a competition and thinks that I will take his place when I'll get my residency

The funny point is that we are not in the medical school...yet, but already talking about residencies

 

[gujuDoc]

Agree, probably the guy just sees me as a competition and thinks that I will take his place when I'll get my residency

The funny point is that we are not in the medical school...yet, but already talking about residencies

Yah my last post on the 1st page should really be taken into account. In other words, this dude makes his generalizations but he has absolutely no proof to back up what he's saying, yet wishes to portray it as facts.

I would be interested in seeing the data where it shows that women who actually wanted to go into surgery were turned down due to being female rather then male.

The fact is that many women choose not to go into surgery of their own free will. If they are more often found in pediatrics, family practice, internal med, or internal med subspecialties, its because they chose one of those lesser working hour residencies. Those few that have wanted to sincerely become a surgeon, have done so.

On a side note, Taty, don't give up. My friend had a 25 and 26 on his MCAT. He took the test 3 times, and finally was almost ready to give up and go carribbean. He's a really good friend, so I was really praying hard for him. Anyhow, he was lucky to get the last possible interview date at our institutions med school. He got waitlisted, but it was on a ranked waitlist, so they told him by mid may he would be getting off. Sure enough, a few days after the official May 15th drop date for multiple acceptances, he got off the waitlist and will be in med school in the fall. He wants to go into surgery as well.

If your scores are still in the late 20's and not above 30, I would apply to a broad based number of schools. He said he would advise people with slightly lower numbers to apply to Meharry and Howard. Also, he said to apply to a broad range of schools and many schools. Its a lot of money to fork up, but it is worth it if even for one acceptance only.

 

[rain1_rain1]

People...does anybody know someone who was in the US less than 5 years passed MCAT and got to med school?

Taty, you are not the only one! I have been in this country for little less then 3 years My engahlisshhhh is so screwed, I actually slept on one of the passages while taking the April MCAT !!! Now I think, I will be happy with anything from 26 on, who really cares. You can get easily into DO schools and pursue your dream to become surgeon. For me even that avenue isn't easy, just for the fact that I am not even a permanent resident of this country, but this only makes my determination stronger, don't give up - FIGHT, yes FIGHT.

Hope tonight turns golden for all of us, Good Luck!

 

[gujuDoc]

Taty,

I should also mention that a good friend of mine from highschool got a 35 on his MCAT. He had been in the country probably about a total of 5 years exactly at the time he took it. He's now in med school.

 

[Taty]

You can get easily into DO schools and pursue your dream to become surgeon. For me even that avenue isn't easy, just for the fact that I am not even a permanent resident of this country, but this only makes my determination stronger, don't give up - FIGHT, yes FIGHT.

Hope tonight turns golden for all of us, Good Luck![/QUOT

Do DO graduates have a good chance of going to surgery?

 

[rain1_rain1]

"Do DO graduates have a good chance of going to surgery?"

Taty, you can check the match list of many DO schools. A lot of DO graduates go in family practise, and internal medicine BUT some also go into surgery, esp. orthopaedics!

Nish

 

[Taty]

Yah my last post on the 1st page should really be taken into account. In other words, this dude makes his generalizations but he has absolutely no proof to back up what he's saying, yet wishes to portray it as facts.

QUOTE]
it seems that Hakashi attacks every thread

 

[Taty]

"Do DO graduates have a good chance of going to surgery?"

Taty, you can check the match list of many DO schools. A lot of DO graduates go in family practise, and internal medicine BUT some also go into surgery, esp. orthopaedics!

Nish

Can DO become MD or MD become DO?
I so weird offices like Dr. Known DO,MD....does not make any sense to me but I saw it by my own eye's.

 

[criminallyinane]

You thought wrong. People are now becoming fed up with the amount of women in medicine, because pretty much all of them end up going part-time. This is unfair to men who could still be working full-time who were not able to get into medical school.

This 18-year old child has no idea what he is talking about. Women now outnumber men in medical school. He is just making things up!

 

[aliendroid]

You thought wrong. People are now becoming fed up with the amount of women in medicine, because pretty much all of them end up going part-time. This is unfair to men who could still be working full-time who were not able to get into medical school.

Are you kidding? I think it's fantastic that there are now more women in medical school than men. Later on when you start looking for that cute little blond gold-digger, just imagine how little competition you are going to have. The number of available single male doctors coming out of residency is way down. It’ll be raining gold-diggers all over you. You can have two in each arm.

Taty, I have a friend from Iran that came here to study because they don't let people in his religion study at university there. He came here and he didn't do very well on the VR part of the MCAT. Just tell them your story in your personal statement and send in the application. Don't let anyone discourage you from anything. Yes, it is true that women more often go on maternity leave and go part time than men, but who cares.

 

[gujuDoc]

Taty,

How did your MCAT scores turn out?????????? Hope you did ok!!!!!!!!!!!

 

[Taty]

Taty,

How did your MCAT scores turn out?????????? Hope you did ok!!!!!!!!!!!

THE SAME

I'll sit 3rd time for april 2006 if not will go to carribean...what about u?

 

[Taty]

Are you kidding? I think it's fantastic that there are now more women in medical school than men. Later on when you start looking for that cute little blond gold-digger, just imagine how little competition you are going to have. The number of available single male doctors coming out of residency is way down. It’ll be raining gold-diggers all over you. You can have two in each arm.

Taty, I have a friend from Iran that came here to study because they don't let people in his religion study at university there. He came here and he didn't do very well on the VR part of the MCAT. Just tell them your story in your personal statement and send in the application. Don't let anyone discourage you from anything. Yes, it is true that women more often go on maternity leave and go part time than men, but who cares.

I AM GONNA GAMBLE I'LL APPLY TO MY STATE SCHOOLS WITH MY 24P
tell my story,show my research anyway what i have to lose?

 

[gujuDoc]

I AM GONNA GAMBLE I'LL APPLY TO MY STATE SCHOOLS WITH MY 24P
tell my story,show my research anyway what i have to lose?

That's a good idea. Apply to NYCOM (the DO school too). Also, some schools may take the best of subsections, making your score higher. Find out if any of the schools of interest do that. My friend had a 25 and 26, and when it was the best of subsections it turned to a 28, and that's how they viewed it.

 

[rain1_rain1]

Since you are not in medical school, have never applied to residency, don't know how many women have actually applied to surgical residencies, etc. I suggest you not make such sweeping generalizations.

The fact is not that they are hesistant to take women over men, so much as that many women personally CHOOSE NOT TO DO SURGERY OUT OF THEIR OWN FREE WILL. Those that do choose to do surgery do get chosen if their board scores and med school grades, etc. are good.

Agree!!!

I hope there are more girls then guys in any school I go, can you even imagine a med school full of d**ks??? I pity on those who went to school's in 50's, 60's ...

 

[aliendroid]

Agree!!!

I hope there are more girls then guys in any school I go, can you even imagine a med school full of d**ks??? I pity on those who went to school's in 50's, 60's ...

Think of all the ego and testosterone and crudeness lol. Probably worse than the locker room of an NFL football team.

 

[Taty]

Think of all the ego and testosterone and crudeness lol. Probably worse than the locker room of an NFL football team.

yea agree

 

[DJmunster]

I cannot say that there are as many women as men, but there are plenty of them. Moreover, there are a lot female surgical residents at this hospital. So, you'll be a surgeon for sure. By the way, what kind of surgeon do you want to be?

how is this bad thing? Test shows that men handle stress better than woman. Would you want your surgon to be incompetent? So unless you r there to socialise then not having certain sex in a field shouldn't bother u right? Political correcttness is a bad thing my friend

 

[Taty]

how is this bad thing? Test shows that men handle stress better than woman. Would you want your surgon to be incompetent? So unless you r there to socialise then not having certain sex in a field shouldn't bother u right? Political correcttness is a bad thing my friend

The post from like 2 years ago..I think I took MCRAP twice since that time hehe

 

[DJmunster]

The post from like 2 years ago..I think I took MCARAP twice since that time hehe

no I was talking to that other guy mikail