appleluver7

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I have seen an accredited United States medical school who claims their average (mean) MCAT scores are:

8 PS; 9 BS; 9 VR

This is a 26 total. Now, from reading the posts on this board, it would seem that you MUST have a 30+ to even be CONSIDERED for admissions, let alone, get in. I am wondering: If this is true, then how is this school's average so low?

I assume that if their average is 26, then this means a large portion of students do score below 26 and get in? I assume a few of these are "minorities", but the school I'm talking about is in a rural area, meaning that they have few minorities in practice. Therefore, most of the people who are getting in and scoring 24 and 25 are white...

I guess it surprises me that so many people on here say you have to have a 30+ to even be considered when it is clear that there are some caucasian applicants who are getting in who have 24 or 25 total. (8,8,8 for instance.)

What do you think? Is the school lying about their averages?
 

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What school is this for? Are you working from the '07-08 MSAR?
 

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jackieMD2007 said:
What school is this for? Are you working from the '07-08 MSAR?

I think he is talking about SIU. Remember that MSAR is a bit inflated and they take the median for accepted students. A lot of schools give out the the matriculation data or class profile now. I hope that helps.
 

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DrVanNostran said:
I think he is talking about SIU. Remember that MSAR is a bit inflated and they take the median for accepted students. A lot of schools give out the the matriculation data or class profile now. I hope that helps.
Hmmmm, good call there. I think the OP is also getting caught up in the SDN hype of "OMG! I only have a 37 and a 3.9, will I get in?!?!" ;) You gotta work from the MSAR, the school websites, and common sense.

And, OP, if you are talking about SIU, don't even bother to apply unless IL is your home state, as they do not accept OOS. :luck:
 

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Keep in mind that schools that have averages 27 or below are usually looking for something else. URM or people from rural areas within a state tend to be the big 2. I am a strong believer that you dont need a 30+ to be considered. I think that if everything else is good (3.5+, LORs, EC) you should be good with a 28 if you apply to plenty of schools. just my 2 cents from a know nothing M2 .
 
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appleluver7

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jackieMD2007 said:
Hmmmm, good call there. I think the OP is also getting caught up in the SDN hype of "OMG! I only have a 37 and a 3.9, will I get in?!?!" ;) You gotta work from the MSAR, the school websites, and common sense.

And, OP, if you are talking about SIU, don't even bother to apply unless IL is your home state, as they do not accept OOS. :luck:
Hi-

I am talking about SIU ;)

I am an Illinois resident actually although I'm not talking about admission for myself but my friend. He's from Illinois too. Anyway, is SIU telling the truth about their MCATs being 26?

As I said, it's clear to me that there are caucasian applicants who are getting into SIU with scores below 26...since 26 is the AVERAGE. Now, I'm not suggesting a lot people are getting in to SIU with 24/25, but it's clear there are people. Am I just totally off base here??

In other words, would he have a good shot at SIU with a 24/25 being an Illinois resident? Obviously I'm just talking about MCAT assuming his other **** is OK.
 

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appleluver7 said:
Hi-

I am talking about SIU ;)

I am an Illinois resident actually although I'm not talking about admission for myself but my friend. He's from Illinois too. Anyway, is SIU telling the truth about their MCATs being 26?

As I said, it's clear to me that there are caucasian applicants who are getting into SIU with scores below 26...since 26 is the AVERAGE. Now, I'm not suggesting a lot people are getting in to SIU with 24/25, but it's clear there are people. Am I just totally off base here??

In other words, would he have a good shot at SIU with a 24/25 being an Illinois resident? Obviously I'm just talking about MCAT assuming his other **** is OK.
I'm not sure what any of this has to do with race.
However, I would think he would have an okay shot there.

My friend applied with a 26 last year, was interviewed by SIU, but she was ultimately not accepted. She was accepted in the Caribbean and a few other places overseas. She was not interviewed by any other MD programs. She did not apply DO.

From SIU's website:
Applications and Acceptances for the 2005 Entering Class
Total number of MD program applications (all IL) 968
Total number of MD/JD program applications 45
Number acceptances offered 192
Number of students enrolled 72 (SMALL CLASS SIZE!)
Mean age of enrolled students at time of application 23
Mean g.p.a. of enrolled students 3.50/4.0
Mean MCAT scores of enrolled students
Biological Sciences 9
Physical Sciences 8
Verbal Reasoning 9
Writing Sample O

And about the requirements:
Medical College Admissions Test (MCAT) scores must not be older than two years, with:
Minimum verbal reasoning subtest score of "7"
Biological sciences subtest score of "6"

Overall cumulative undergraduate or last 60 hours or course work grade point average must be 2.70/4.0 scale
 

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appleluver7 said:
Hi-

I am talking about SIU ;)

I am an Illinois resident actually although I'm not talking about admission for myself but my friend. He's from Illinois too. Anyway, is SIU telling the truth about their MCATs being 26?

As I said, it's clear to me that there are caucasian applicants who are getting into SIU with scores below 26...since 26 is the AVERAGE. Now, I'm not suggesting a lot people are getting in to SIU with 24/25, but it's clear there are people. Am I just totally off base here??

In other words, would he have a good shot at SIU with a 24/25 being an Illinois resident? Obviously I'm just talking about MCAT assuming his other **** is OK.
I believe the school is only open to in state residents (giving them a fairly small applicant pool), there are a lot of other Illinois schools they are competing with, and they take a fairly small number of students compared to other schools. Thus a small number of students who were accepted for other reasons despite a low MCAT section, esp PS, can really skew the average.
Nationally, however average MCAT scores are considerably higher, closer to 30-31. At the top of the rankings you would need higher than that to be average.
 

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Also keep in mind, the students on this bored tend to be a bit more involved and anal in pursuing their medical careers. I bet if you look through the people on this board, there is a higher than average acceptance rates. The more you care, the better you do on MCATs, higher GPA, more EC, more you pay attention to things like this message bored. Not the most representative group perhaps.
 

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ESzczesniak said:
Also keep in mind, the students on this bored tend to be a bit more involved and anal in pursuing their medical careers. I bet if you look through the people on this board, there is a higher than average acceptance rates. The more you care, the better you do on MCATs, higher GPA, more EC, more you pay attention to things like this message bored. Not the most representative group perhaps.
Do you mean "board"?
 

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Another thought: people have a tendency to approach avg MCATs as cut offs.

When a school says they have a 30 MCAT average, this really means that quite a few people did even better, but also that quite a few people did worse. And still got in.

Look to be in the neighborhood of a school's avg MCAT. You don't need to hit it.
 

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appleluver7 said:
Hi-

I am talking about SIU ;)

I am an Illinois resident actually although I'm not talking about admission for myself but my friend. He's from Illinois too. Anyway, is SIU telling the truth about their MCATs being 26?

As I said, it's clear to me that there are caucasian applicants who are getting into SIU with scores below 26...since 26 is the AVERAGE. Now, I'm not suggesting a lot people are getting in to SIU with 24/25, but it's clear there are people. Am I just totally off base here??

In other words, would he have a good shot at SIU with a 24/25 being an Illinois resident? Obviously I'm just talking about MCAT assuming his other **** is OK.
You have prompted me to start a thread I've been thinking about for a while. Look for "Chicago residents getting any love from SIU??" coming to a thread near you.
 

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breck said:
You have prompted me to start a thread I've been thinking about for a while. Look for "Chicago residents getting any love from SIU??" coming to a thread near you.
On this note, I've heard that SIU has a huge preference for people from Southern Illinois, not Chicago.
 
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Law2Doc said:
I believe the school is only open to in state residents (giving them a fairly small applicant pool), there are a lot of other Illinois schools they are competing with, and they take a fairly small number of students compared to other schools. Thus a small number of students who were accepted for other reasons despite a low MCAT section, esp PS, can really skew the average.
Nationally, however average MCAT scores are considerably higher, closer to 30-31. At the top of the rankings you would need higher than that to be average.
No matter how you slice it, the school's MCAT is 26. Yes, some people at SIU likely had extremely high MCATS of 35, 37, 39, 42, 43, but the far majority had scores at 26 or less. I agree with the other person who said that people tend to focus on the average as a "cut off".

Therefore it is reasonable to think that in fact, a 25 on the MCAT would be a competitive score for SIU from a student from downstate Illinois. Chicago students are not going to get much favoritism because there are 6 alternative schools in Chicago, so SIU has little incentive to admit students who are from Chicago.
 
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leahmaria said:
On this note, I've heard that SIU has a huge preference for people from Southern Illinois, not Chicago.
For those of you who don't understand, "southern" Illinois is anything south of the southern Chicago burbs (i.e. Bloomington, Urbana-Champaign, Pontiac, Lincoln, Springfield, Carbondale, Decatur). Am I right?

Even though *technically* and from a geographic perspective Bloomington is "central" Illinois, SIU still prefers people from *central AND southern Illinois* because the population in southern alone is so small, there wouldn't be enough qualified applicants to draw students only from southern. For all effective purposes, you need to be from *central or southern* Illinois. But from a Chicagoan's perspective that means...everything south of Tinley Park/Plainfield/Orland Park area.

Also, since SIU's campus is only in southern Illinois for the first year, and the subsequent years are in Springfield, being from central Illinois could also be a big help. Any disagree?
 

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appleluver7 said:
No matter how you slice it, the school's MCAT is 26. Yes, some people at SIU likely had extremely high MCATS of 35, 37, 39, 42, 43, but the far majority had scores at 26 or less. I agree with the other person who said that people tend to focus on the average as a "cut off".

Therefore it is reasonable to think that in fact, a 25 on the MCAT would be a competitive score for SIU from a student from downstate Illinois. Chicago students are not going to get much favoritism because there are 6 alternative schools in Chicago, so SIU has little incentive to admit students who are from Chicago.
Even a combined high score can contribute to the low average if they were high on two sections, but unbalanced. Eg. if the 35 was a 14, 15, 6, it might bring down the average PS score. And the school has about half as many students total as most med schools, so again, any small deviation in grade will skew the class more than at most places. You are combining the average of each section rather than looking at the median person's MCAT score. The median person's MCAT score would better tell you what score to target.
 
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Law2Doc said:
Even a combined high score can contribute to the low average if they were high on two sections, but unbalanced. Eg. if the 35 was a 14, 15, 6, it might bring down the average PS score. And the school has about half as many students total as most med schools, so again, any small deviation in grade will skew the class more than at most places. You are combining the average of each section rather than looking at the median person's MCAT score. The median person's MCAT score would better tell you what score to target.
So basically, what you are saying is that the average 26 is highly misleading, and that, to be "competitive" to SIU, you would need a score of around 31 (slightly less than the "outlier" of 35)? So I should tell the guy with a 25 to not even consider the school since he doesn't have anywhere near a 30-31 right?
 

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appleluver7 said:
So basically, what you are saying is that the average 26 is highly misleading, and that, to be "competitive" to SIU, you would need a score of around 31 (slightly less than the "outlier" of 35)? So I should tell the guy with a 25 to not even consider the school since he doesn't have anywhere near a 30-31 right?
Maybe you should tell "your friend" to:
1. Speak with his pre-med people about his MCAT Score/grades in regards to eligibility
2. Speak with SIU directly about his interest in the school and what scores he would need to be competitive.
 

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breck said:
You have prompted me to start a thread I've been thinking about for a while. Look for "Chicago residents getting any love from SIU??" coming to a thread near you.
When I called SIU, and when I looked on their website, they verified that there is a large group of students in each class that hail from Chicago. Look at the student notebook they put together. They have stories in there from students who moved from Chicago to Carbondale, etc. They have a list of what cities in IL the students are from.

Chicago is a HUGE metropolitan area, with a ton of UG schools right here. Just because you aren't from Mt. Prospect doesn't mean you don't have a shot!
 
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jackieMD2007 said:
Maybe you should tell "your friend" to:
1. Speak with his pre-med people about his MCAT Score/grades in regards to eligibility
2. Speak with SIU directly about his interest in the school and what scores he would need to be competitive.
I will tell him...it's just a little surprising to me that a score of 31 is necessary for admission to SIU. I am not a URM and am headed to Yale Medical for the fall with a score of 31, so I guess it seems like people on this board over-inflate the MCATs necessary for admission.

I'm surprised I haven't been murdered for my ****ty score of 31. Curtains for Yale! Richard Levin should step down ASAP to protest my admission :laugh:
 

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appleluver7 said:
For those of you who don't understand, "southern" Illinois is anything south of the southern Chicago burbs (i.e. Bloomington, Urbana-Champaign, Pontiac, Lincoln, Springfield, Carbondale, Decatur). Am I right?

Even though *technically* and from a geographic perspective Bloomington is "central" Illinois, SIU still prefers people from *central AND southern Illinois* because the population in southern alone is so small, there wouldn't be enough qualified applicants to draw students only from southern. For all effective purposes, you need to be from *central or southern* Illinois. But from a Chicagoan's perspective that means...everything south of Tinley Park/Plainfield/Orland Park area.

Also, since SIU's campus is only in southern Illinois for the first year, and the subsequent years are in Springfield, being from central Illinois could also be a big help. Any disagree?
I have heard anything south of I-80 is where the cutoff is at.
Marcia
 

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appleluver7 said:
So basically, what you are saying is that the average 26 is highly misleading, and that, to be "competitive" to SIU, you would need a score of around 31 (slightly less than the "outlier" of 35)? So I should tell the guy with a 25 to not even consider the school since he doesn't have anywhere near a 30-31 right?
I didn't say anything close to that. I said that the statistics you were looking at could be misleading, but never suggested what score you would need. And I would suggest that even if folks are getting in with a 25, that does not mean that there wasn't a driving force other than the MCAT that was their hook, so I wouldn't be at all surprised if someone with that purported average and nothing really unusual actually has no real shot at getting in. But I truly have no idea.
I personally would tell anyone with a 25 to seriously consider not applying this year and retaking the MCAT, because a few more points can significantly improve his odds. But to each his own.
 
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mdille2 said:
I have heard anything south of I-80 is where the cutoff is at.
Marcia
I'm from Urbana and that makes sense. Urbana by SIU standards is considered southern/central. I-80 filters out all the Chicago burbs which represent some 10 million people.
 

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appleluver7 said:
Chicago students are not going to get much favoritism because there are 6 alternative schools in Chicago, so SIU has little incentive to admit students who are from Chicago.
First of all this shouldn't make a difference. Secondly, you have to take a look at what other schools you are talking about. Two of those schools are Pritzker and Northwestern. Neither of these schools have a preference for in state residents and the best of the best have a hard time getting into them. Then their is RFU, a private school, with matriculated numbers of (49 In State, and 124 Out of State residents). Clearly no in state preferenc there. Then their is Loyola, another private school, with 58 In State, and 82 Out of State residents). Perhaps their is a small preference there but when you look at the number of students In and Out of state that applied you'll see that maybe there isn't. Now we are down to UIC and Rush. There are definitely state preferences here because these schools are state funded. Do they discriminate against central and southern IL residents?? Not openly, if at all. WhY?? B/c central and southern IL residents pay taxes just like Chicago residents. So the incentive for SIU to admit Chicago residents is the same as the incentive for Rush and UIC to admit them, because they ALL PAY IL TAXES!!! Take a look at the numbers the cheapest tuition in any IL school is at SIU. Is this really fair???
 

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Easy does it there, captain. I just got off the phone with their admissions people who said (RIGHT NOW) that Chicago residents are represented in the class. Of course students coming from downstate are given preference, but when I suggested the rule about I-80 being the cutoff, she laughed and said that was not true.
 
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breck said:
First of all this shouldn't make a difference. Secondly, you have to take a look at what other schools you are talking about. Two of those schools are Pritzker and Northwestern. Neither of these schools have a preference for in state residents and the best of the best have a hard time getting into them. Then their is RFU, a private school, with matriculated numbers of (49 In State, and 124 Out of State residents). Clearly no in state preferenc there. Then their is Loyola, another private school, with 58 In State, and 82 Out of State residents). Perhaps their is a small preference there but when you look at the number of students In and Out of state that applied you'll see that maybe there isn't. Now we are down to UIC and Rush. There are definitely state preferences here because these schools are state funded. Do they discriminate against central and southern IL residents?? Not openly, if at all. WhY?? B/c central and southern IL residents pay taxes just like Chicago residents. So the incentive for SIU to admit Chicago residents is the same as the incentive for Rush and UIC to admit them, because they ALL PAY IL TAXES!!! Take a look at the numbers the cheapest tuition in any IL school is at SIU. Is this really fair???
whoa...I never said Chicago students can't get into SIU. Clearly, because Chicago is large, there are students at SIU from Chicago. I said Chicago students are not favored (meaning they have an advantage)...if you honestly will try and tell me that a student from Chicago with the same credentials as a student who has lived in Springfield all her life have the same shot, then I think you are deluding yourself. Given equal applicants, SIU will choose the downstate person. It's just the game. Get over that. I think that once SIU has filled a good portion of its class with quality downstate people, they are happy to fill the rest of their class with a lot of good people from Chicago. Also, fewer people from downstate are going to apply to get into SIU, just because there are fewer people who are from this region. As a result, you are going to find that proportionally, downstate people are very well represented. I suspect the acceptance rate for downstate people is slightly higher than the acceptance rate for Chicago people but I could be wrong.

Bottom line: if you are from Chicago you have a good shot with good credentials. If you are from downstate, you will be given extra brownie points and you will win in the admissions game against an applicant from Chicago. SIU even says it favors people from downstate on their website. To suggest that therefore Chicago people have the same exact chance with equal qualifications as an Urbana applicant is plain dumb.
 

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appleluver7 said:
No matter how you slice it, the school's MCAT is 26. Yes, some people at SIU likely had extremely high MCATS of 35, 37, 39, 42, 43, but the far majority had scores at 26 or less. I agree with the other person who said that people tend to focus on the average as a "cut off".

Therefore it is reasonable to think that in fact, a 25 on the MCAT would be a competitive score for SIU from a student from downstate Illinois. Chicago students are not going to get much favoritism because there are 6 alternative schools in Chicago, so SIU has little incentive to admit students who are from Chicago.
I partially agree that as long as you are within the 'average' range, you are competitive (MCAT score wise) for that school. However, don't forget that distribution also matters. If a school has an average of 26, it doesn't mean that if there's someone with a 36 then there has to be someone with a 16 in the school. More likely, it means most people scored within a point or two of 26 and a few stragglers who were 24-27 and the rest > 27. Since the bulk of scores would most likely be within the 24-27 range, it doesn't take a 16 to counteract the 36.


Also remember the class profile would include waitlisters. In other words, the kids who have good shot at the school probably scored slightly above average. By the time class profile is compiled, the numbers also reflect the waitlisters who were borderline and waited until March, April, May to find out their acceptance. I think that's why people on these boards say a 30 is needed---it's not just anal retentiveness, it's also the best way to guarantee you will be accepted within the normal range of time.
 
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NonTradMed said:
I partially agree that as long as you are within the 'average' range, you are competitive (MCAT score wise) for that school. However, don't forget that distribution also matters. If a school has an average of 26, it doesn't mean that if there's someone with a 36 then there has to be someone with a 16 in the school. More likely, it means most people scored within a point or two of 26 and a few stragglers who were 24-27 and the rest > 27. Since the bulk of scores would most likely be within the 24-27 range, it doesn't take a 16 to counteract the 36.


Also remember the class profile would include waitlisters. In other words, the kids who have good shot at the school probably scored slightly above average. By the time class profile is compiled, the numbers also reflect the waitlisters who were borderline and waited until March, April, May to find out their acceptance. I think that's why people on these boards say a 30 is needed---it's not just anal retentiveness, it's also the best way to guarantee you will be accepted within the normal range of time.
You speak in generalities and show no empirical evidence to suggest a 30 is needed for admission to SIU!! I am from the area and know a lot about the admissions process there; friends father is on the admissions committee. Please don't overstep your bounds and try to extrapolate about a specific school for which you know very little. An MCAT score of 25 would be competitive at SIU.
 

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I have met with the admissions director and some commitee members of SIU because I have had them invited to my school and helped with fundraisers etc.

SIU---FAVORS students from Southern and Central Illinois, that is stated on their website and the MSAR. Also, as for a majority of students with way high MCATS-probably false. The 25th Percentile is around 24ish I think and 75th is around 27. SIU, is the cheapest school in Illinois because yes it is state funded and it is down south, far from Chicago.

Bottom line, if you are from Southern or Central Illinois with a mid-20s score, you are very competitive there.
 

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appleluver7 said:
whoa...I never said Chicago students can't get into SIU. Clearly, because Chicago is large, there are students at SIU from Chicago. I said Chicago students are not favored (meaning they have an advantage)...if you honestly will try and tell me that a student from Chicago with the same credentials as a student who has lived in Springfield all her life have the same shot, then I think you are deluding yourself. Given equal applicants, SIU will choose the downstate person. It's just the game. Get over that. I think that once SIU has filled a good portion of its class with quality downstate people, they are happy to fill the rest of their class with a lot of good people from Chicago. Also, fewer people from downstate are going to apply to get into SIU, just because there are fewer people who are from this region. As a result, you are going to find that proportionally, downstate people are very well represented. I suspect the acceptance rate for downstate people is slightly higher than the acceptance rate for Chicago people but I could be wrong.

Bottom line: if you are from Chicago you have a good shot with good credentials. If you are from downstate, you will be given extra brownie points and you will win in the admissions game against an applicant from Chicago. SIU even says it favors people from downstate on their website. To suggest that therefore Chicago people have the same exact chance with equal qualifications as an Urbana applicant is plain dumb.
Whoa yourself. Before you start throwing out nasty comments like: you are deluding yourself, get over it, and to suggest [such and such] is plain dumb maybe you should have reread my post. I never suggested that Chicago students have the exact same chance. My whole argument is that SIU prefers students from southern and central IL and this is BS. You specifically stated that "SIU has little incentive to admit students who are from Chicago [presumably b/c] Chicago has 6 other schools". I said this is a BS reason b/c there seem to only be two schools in IL that give IL residents preference, mainly UIC and Rush. The fact that these 2 schools do this should have absolutely no effect whatsover on how SIU treats all IL residents. Why?? Because SIU is a state funded school just like Rush and UIC. Due to this I said SIU does indeed have an incentive to let other IL residents in and yet they still aren't doing it. Despite your contention that SIU has no incentive to give equal preference to all IL residents I say they do. The incentive is that IL residents and their families indirectly fund that school. In spite of this, SIU still doesn't give all IL residents an equal shot. I think this is BS. Rush and UIC are state funded and as a result ALL state residents get the same benefits of being in state residents at these schools, so why wouldn't SIU follow the same policy. Where is the confusion??????????? When did I suggest that Chicago applicants have the exact same chance as Urbana applicants??? All I said was the incentive was their (the state funding) and they disregard it. How on earth did you spin this into me claiming Chicagoans have an equal shot as central and southern IL residents????? I DON'T GET IT :confused:
 

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appleluver7 said:
You speak in generalities and show no empirical evidence to suggest a 30 is needed for admission to SIU!! I am from the area and know a lot about the admissions process there; friends father is on the admissions committee. Please don't overstep your bounds and try to extrapolate about a specific school for which you know very little. An MCAT score of 25 would be competitive at SIU.
First of all, if you read my post, I never said a 30 was need for admission to SIU. Please indicate to me where I questioned that a 25 was NOT competitive for SIU? I said a score far below that of the average range is noncompetitive for any med school. I also put the range at ~25-27 for competitiveness at a school which puts its average score at 26.

Second, 'overstep my bounds'? Sounds a bit arrogant, don't you think? Are you an expert at the admissions game because of your "friend's father" at SIU? From my experience as an applicant, I would say ~30 is needed to be competitive MCAT wise for most med schools, and that I agree with the general SDN assumption that one needs to have score within the 30 range to be considered competitive. However, I never said this specifically applies to SIU.

Third, my personal experience from various schools, as well as from friends who've been through the process before me, indicates that a slim range of MCAT occurs for most med school acceptees. This means that, in a school with 30 MCAT average, a 36 MCAT will not mean someone with a 24 is guaranteed an in. This, in all probability, means that a lot of people will cluster around the 30 average, in which case, a 36 will not pull the average up that much. It's simple statistics. Ditto with SIU. This means for someone with a 26 average, that doesn't mean that someone with a substantially lower MCAT score, say a 20, will have a good shot becuase they accepted someone with a 32.
 

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You're assuming that these low scores come from "minorities"! That's offensive and presumptious.



appleluver7 said:
I have seen an accredited United States medical school who claims their average (mean) MCAT scores are:

8 PS; 9 BS; 9 VR

This is a 26 total. Now, from reading the posts on this board, it would seem that you MUST have a 30+ to even be CONSIDERED for admissions, let alone, get in. I am wondering: If this is true, then how is this school's average so low?

I assume that if their average is 26, then this means a large portion of students do score below 26 and get in? I assume a few of these are "minorities", but the school I'm talking about is in a rural area, meaning that they have few minorities in practice. Therefore, most of the people who are getting in and scoring 24 and 25 are white...

I guess it surprises me that so many people on here say you have to have a 30+ to even be considered when it is clear that there are some caucasian applicants who are getting in who have 24 or 25 total. (8,8,8 for instance.)

What do you think? Is the school lying about their averages?
 

DrVanNostran

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SIU gives preference to Southern and Central Illinois Students because they HOPE that these students will serve an underserved poplulation; that is what their curriculum is geared towards.
 

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appleluver7 says:

appleluver7 said:
I have seen an accredited United States medical school who claims their average (mean) MCAT scores are:

8 PS; 9 BS; 9 VR

This is a 26 total. Now, from reading the posts on this board, it would seem that you MUST have a 30+ to even be CONSIDERED for admissions, let alone, get in. I am wondering: If this is true, then how is this school's average so low?

I assume that if their average is 26, then this means a large portion of students do score below 26 and get in? I assume a few of these are "minorities", but the school I'm talking about is in a rural area, meaning that they have few minorities in practice. Therefore, most of the people who are getting in and scoring 24 and 25 are white...

I guess it surprises me that so many people on here say you have to have a 30+ to even be considered when it is clear that there are some caucasian applicants who are getting in who have 24 or 25 total. (8,8,8 for instance.)

What do you think? Is the school lying about their averages?
To which Tsk replies:

TSK said:
You're assuming that these low scores come from "minorities"! That's offensive and presumptious.
Excellent reading comprehension there.

Sometimes I wonder if Al Sharpton moonlights as a premed here. Race-baiting is so much fun! :clap:
 

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Andre04 said:
appleluver7 says:



To which Tsk replies:



Excellent reading comprehension there.

Sometimes I wonder if Al Sharpton moonlights as a premed here. Race-baiting is so much fun! :clap:

:laugh: :laugh: :laugh:
 

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DrVanNostran said:
SIU gives preference to Southern and Central Illinois Students because they HOPE that these students will serve an underserved poplulation; that is what their curriculum is geared towards.
Apparently so. I just don't think that the people who live in other parts of Illinois (especially me) should have their tax money supporting SIU when they turn around and discriminate against us b/c they are trying to fix a problem in "their healthcare system." It seems like they are biting the hand that feeds them. Do you think the funding they get from central and southern IL residents is proportional to the number of central and southern IL residents they are letting in?? This is more of a rhetorical question, but I'll say I doubt it.
I don't even understand why SIU feels like it is their problem to solve but since they do there are other ways to do this. They should do something to attract doctors down there instead of making Chicago premeds pay the price for this problem. They could offer scholarships to people who commit to working X number of years in the area, just like the Army does to attract doctors. They could just give up their state funding, they abuse it anyway, and then become a private school so they can have a nationwide pool of applicants who want to work in underserved areas to pull from. If the area is still so underserved their perceived solution to the problem is obviously coming up short. It's time for them to come up with some new ideas. Do what you've always done, and you'll get what you've always got.
 

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Yes. The solution is OBVIOUSLY to fight city hall. Good, strong thinking. :smuggrin:
 

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jackieMD2007 said:
Yes. The solution is OBVIOUSLY to fight city hall. Good, strong thinking. :smuggrin:
Didn't you ever see Rocco's Modern life? You can't fight City Hall and win, well short of the entire town breaking into song in an impromptu broadway performance.
 

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jackieMD2007 said:
Yes. The solution is OBVIOUSLY to fight city hall. Good, strong thinking. :smuggrin:
Would you like to extrapolate on this??
 

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Law2Doc said:
I didn't say anything close to that.
This for some reason is one of the funniest lines I have read on SDN. When I was reading his reply to your post, I was thinking the exact same thing as you I suppose.

I wonder if colleges, better yet any level of school, are teaching reading comprehension, or maybe just reading, or at least English these days?
 

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breck said:
Would you like to extrapolate on this??
Take my advice, no take Rocco's advice, get a dance troupe together start working on a script for your song performance and hire an A list choreographer for the dance portion and I am sure change will be right around the corner.
 
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breck said:
Apparently so. I just don't think that the people who live in other parts of Illinois (especially me) should have their tax money supporting SIU when they turn around and discriminate against us b/c they are trying to fix a problem in "their healthcare system." It seems like they are biting the hand that feeds them. Do you think the funding they get from central and southern IL residents is proportional to the number of central and southern IL residents they are letting in?? This is more of a rhetorical question, but I'll say I doubt it.
I don't even understand why SIU feels like it is their problem to solve but since they do there are other ways to do this. They should do something to attract doctors down there instead of making Chicago premeds pay the price for this problem. They could offer scholarships to people who commit to working X number of years in the area, just like the Army does to attract doctors. They could just give up their state funding, they abuse it anyway, and then become a private school so they can have a nationwide pool of applicants who want to work in underserved areas to pull from. If the area is still so underserved their perceived solution to the problem is obviously coming up short. It's time for them to come up with some new ideas. Do what you've always done, and you'll get what you've always got.
Have you ever lived in central or southern Illinois? I don't think so...

In fact, I have lived in central Illinois for nearly two decades, and I can honestly say that SIU needs to attract people to the area because the area is extremely underserved and is "undesirable" by most Chicagoans' standards. SIU is no fool. They know that most Chicagoans would do a "dump and run" at SIU, where they would simply use up the school's resources for an MD degree and then high-tail it to Chicago to practice medicine at the elite places there like U Chicago or the Northwestern Medical Faculty Foundation. To believe otherwise, is to not be a cynic and not be a critical consumer.

Everyone knows that Chicagoans "hate" central Illinois. I have loads and loads of friends from Chicago who treat me like trash (well somewhat jokingly but obviously there is truth to it) because I am from central Illinois. One of my friends from Chicago tells me (in a condescending fashion) that I have a "southern acccent" tantamount to an accent from Texas. Others tell me I am a hick. There is an overwhelming sense that Chicago people are better than central IL folks. Finally, even more suggest that central Illinois is a wasteland worth obliterating. Some even go as far as to call the area filled with Republican neo-nazis. Most don't like to even be associated with the region.

I love how, just because SIU has a lower MCAT average, that all Chicagoans "jump" at the chance to try and get into SIU.

It is true that the culture is very different down in central Illinois, and I think that as a result, SIU understands that having lived in that culture for many years can actually help make you a more effective physician when you end up practicing there. As a result, Chicagoans are truly out of touch with downstate in so many ways.
 

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breck said:
Apparently so. I just don't think that the people who live in other parts of Illinois (especially me) should have their tax money supporting SIU when they turn around and discriminate against us b/c they are trying to fix a problem in "their healthcare system." It seems like they are biting the hand that feeds them. Do you think the funding they get from central and southern IL residents is proportional to the number of central and southern IL residents they are letting in?? This is more of a rhetorical question, but I'll say I doubt it.
I don't even understand why SIU feels like it is their problem to solve but since they do there are other ways to do this. They should do something to attract doctors down there instead of making Chicago premeds pay the price for this problem. They could offer scholarships to people who commit to working X number of years in the area, just like the Army does to attract doctors. They could just give up their state funding, they abuse it anyway, and then become a private school so they can have a nationwide pool of applicants who want to work in underserved areas to pull from. If the area is still so underserved their perceived solution to the problem is obviously coming up short. It's time for them to come up with some new ideas. Do what you've always done, and you'll get what you've always got.
**its late so I didnt edit this post, sorry.

I completely understand where you are coming from. Topics like this were discussed heavily in a lot of my classes---I just finished my MPH.

When discussing health care, it is primarily discussed regionally, since each region has a different set of needs. In illinois, we have two primary needs Urban and Rural. To address our rural needs, we have dedicated RMED and RIMSAP which goes through UIC and SIU, and have also designated SIU to educate the student of southern and central Illinois. IMHO, the latter is useless since most of the students who do graduate from SIU end up leaving for an urban area. So it does seem as if our tax dollars are going to waste; BUT we have to keep in mind that many of the areas in central and southern illinois are disadvantaged in many respects, so SIU is there to cater to those students.

We can get into the whole affirmative action, URM, etc debate but we all know its pointless.

As a pre-med, I wish that SIU would offer the same admission standards to those not in central or southern Illinois, however as a true health care advocate and a strong believer in health policy reform, I think we need to keep on allowing SIU to favor central and southern Illinois as long as they try to keep the student in the region.
 

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Everyone knows that Chicagoans "hate" central Illinois. I have loads and loads of friends from Chicago who treat me like trash (well somewhat jokingly but obviously there is truth to it) because I am from central Illinois. One of my friends from Chicago tells me (in a condescending fashion) that I have a "southern acccent" tantamount to an accent from Texas. Others tell me I am a hick. There is an overwhelming sense that Chicago people are better than central IL folks. Finally, even more suggest that central Illinois is a wasteland worth obliterating. Some even go as far as to call the area filled with Republican neo-nazis. Most don't like to even be associated with the region.
That is a pretty huge generalization to make.


However, I do agree that SIU knows they need to produce physicians who will stay in the region. However, like the other poster said, there are better ways. This debate has and will go on for years to come.
 
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DoctorPardi said:
This for some reason is one of the funniest lines I have read on SDN. When I was reading his reply to your post, I was thinking the exact same thing as you I suppose.

I wonder if colleges, better yet any level of school, are teaching reading comprehension, or maybe just reading, or at least English these days?
I knew that Law never said that, but I do like to flame bait ;)

In all honesty, though, because he said he slightly "mostly agreed" with my assessment that the 25 MCAT might get in, I wanted to be hyperbolic and flame bait a bit. I do think that people sometimes have a tendency on here to never "totally" agree just to be argumentative. I felt like that's kind of what he was doing, so I took things to extreme and said, "so you think nothing but a 31 will be competitive to SIU!!" lol. I was hoping he'd say, "hey I never said that!"

I hope I have some reading comprehension skills, since I got a over 700 on my standardized verbal scores from way back when and am heading to New Haven for med.
 

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appleluver7 said:
They know that most Chicagoans would do a "dump and run" at SIU, where they would simply use up the school's resources for an MD degree and then high-tail it to Chicago to practice medicine at the elite places there like U Chicago or the Northwestern Medical Faculty Foundation.

.
Chicagoans have every right to do this. You make it sound like SIU has resources. These are not SIU's resources, they are the resources (read money) of the state of Illinois and all IL residents SHOULD BE entitled to them. Can you give me a good reason why they should not be entitled to funding that comes from THEIR own pockets?? I would love to hear it.

appleluver7 said:
I love how, just because SIU has a lower MCAT average, that all Chicagoans "jump" at the chance to try and get into SIU.

.
You make it sound like this amuses you. Most people call applying to schools with average MCAT scores a little below your own COMMON SENSE. I'm not sure why this amuses you.

Some side notes:
1.) You rip on people for hating central and southern IL. Gee that's funny, I could have sworn you said somewhere that you are going to Yale. Yet, you chastize people for wanting to go back to Chicago after studying at SIU. Odd!!! I know you didn't choose Yale b/c it's cheaper than SIU. Apparently you think you are above them too.

2.) "Have you ever lived in central or southern Illinois? I don't think so..."
How in the hell do you know where I have or have not lived. You are a very presumptious person.
 

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appleluver7 said:
I hope I have some reading comprehension skills, since I got a over 700 on my standardized verbal scores from way back when and am heading to New Haven for med.
:scared: :scared:

If your reading comprehension is so tight how come you claimed that I said Chicago students have an equal chance at SIU when that is nowhere to be found in my post?? You were so confident it was there that you said this assertion is "plain dumb" and "you are deluding yourself".
 

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appleluver7 said:
Everyone knows that Chicagoans "hate" central Illinois. I have loads and loads of friends from Chicago who treat me like trash (well somewhat jokingly but obviously there is truth to it) because I am from central Illinois. One of my friends from Chicago tells me (in a condescending fashion) that I have a "southern acccent" tantamount to an accent from Texas. Others tell me I am a hick. There is an overwhelming sense that Chicago people are better than central IL folks.
Well screw them. There is nothing wrong with being a hick. I have a huge texas accent and I'm proud of it.
 

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Anastasis said:
Well screw them. There is nothing wrong with being a hick. I have a huge texas accent and I'm proud of it.
Anastasis--I can assure you Chicagoans are very friendly; the OP is criticizing basically everyone outside of central and southern Illinois for whatever reason I don't know. But us Chicagoans love our southern neighbors, there is no doubt about it:)
 

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The OP is full of cowpies. SIU has a preference for applicants interested in rural medicine since that's a part of their focus/mission. It doesn't mean they "hate" Chicagoans, and it doesn't mean all Chicagoans see So.linoisers as "hicks". Whenever you see one person implying that large numbers of "other" people unanimously think the same way, it's usually a situation of an inferiority complex at best and a prejudice at worst. In this case, it seems as if the OP just thinks she won't get into SIU, and is busily trying to pin the future blame on someone/something else.