slowlybutshelly

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Unusual story here. I applied out of state to UVM and matriculated in 1992. This was when Vermont still had a high pass, pass, low pass, marginal pass and F system. I had the worst experience of my life at that school; despite all the hoopla it has gained in now having a nonexistent grading system (when did that change?). I had confidential letters of recommendation (from Duke) that I have been unable to retrieve (UVM said they destroyed them when I left). I am now having to ask Duke to go back in their files to get them. I went to Ross instead and now have well over the debt load of two times the average medical school in america. Ross did not require MCAT. I am currently applying to my now 3rd medical school to finish my education. I know the mCAT has changed at least twice since I took it.

How can I get a copy of my old MCAT scores from 1989?
and please pray that I do not have to take it again. Thanks.
 
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779663

You will likely 99% have to take it again. Most schools require that your MCAT be written within the last 3-5 years
 

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Unusual story here. I applied out of state to UVM and matriculated in 1992. This was when Vermont still had a high pass, pass, low pass, marginal pass and F system. I had the worst experience of my life at that school; despite all the hoopla it has gained in now having a nonexistent grading system (when did that change?). I had confidential letters of recommendation (from Duke) that I have been unable to retrieve (UVM said they destroyed them when I left). I am now having to ask Duke to go back in their files to get them. I went to Ross instead and now have well over the debt load of two times the average medical school in america. Ross did not require MCAT. I am currently applying to my now 3rd medical school to finish my education. I know the mCAT has changed at least twice since I took it.

How can I get a copy of my old MCAT scores from 1989?
and please pray that I do not have to take it again. Thanks.
There is a very good chance you will have to contact AAMC directly if you don't have the printed form they mailed to you. They probably don't have the original paperwork, but it may be archived in wither their application files or MCAT files. There is a small chance your undergraduate institution will have it archived somewhere, so you could check with the advising office. A complete long shot is that some schools you applied to have that old score.

However, as alluded to above, current schools will likely want a new score. Your 1989 score was out of 90 (six exams in the 1-15 range). Science problems has a definite correlation to today's exam, as does the Math Reasoning section (graph analysis section if you recall). But the English, Physics, Chemistry, and Biology sections were very different (2 to 5 answer choices rather than just 4) from how it is today.

Might as well see what happens, because there is bound to be a dean or two who have been around long enough to recall the old exam and how it was graded.
 
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slowlybutshelly

slowlybutshelly

ms4
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Thank you for your suggestions. I am trying my best to go forward. From your suggestions, I will follow up with Duke undergrad, AAMC; and the list of schools I remember applying to. South carolina.charleston. UNC - CH ( i got wait listed). If you have any other suggestions for me, I would appreciate it. Thank you.

and what company do you work for? May I ask?
There is a very good chance you will have to contact AAMC directly if you don't have the printed form they mailed to you. They probably don't have the original paperwork, but it may be archived in wither their application files or MCAT files. There is a small chance your undergraduate institution will have it archived somewhere, so you could check with the advising office. A complete long shot is that some schools you applied to have that old score.

However, as alluded to above, current schools will likely want a new score. Your 1989 score was out of 90 (six exams in the 1-15 range). Science problems has a definite correlation to today's exam, as does the Math Reasoning section (graph analysis section if you recall). But the English, Physics, Chemistry, and Biology sections were very different (2 to 5 answer choices rather than just 4) from how it is today.

Might as well see what happens, because there is bound to be a dean or two who have been around long enough to recall the old exam and how it was graded.[/QUOTE
 
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slowlybutshelly

slowlybutshelly

ms4
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this is the answer I received from Duke today.

" duke does not retain Mcat scores older than ten years old or letters of recommendation due to the volumes of graduates they have each year. "...

any other suggestions?
 

Nucleophile1

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this is the answer I received from Duke today.

" duke does not retain Mcat scores older than ten years old or letters of recommendation due to the volumes of graduates they have each year. "...

any other suggestions?
If that is you in the picture, I recommend changing it to preserve your anonymity.

You will absolutely have to re-take the MCAT. Some of the people who took the old MCAT that was out of 45 had to re-take the new MCAT because their scores were expiring.

Your status says that you are currently a medical student. Are you still at Ross?

Unless you have recent recommendation letters that were submitted to Ross, you will definitely need to get new ones since you matriculated to a US medical school over 20 years ago.
 
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slowlybutshelly

slowlybutshelly

ms4
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But But is that you in your profile pic? If so, why the recommendation only for me? My time with Ross expired in 2012. Along with my Step1. Currently applying to third medical school. I do have recommendation letters from Ross Dean and faculty.
 
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slowlybutshelly

slowlybutshelly

ms4
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better? Ok. call me ignant. vulnerable. naive...but obviously I need to be educated. about the need for anonymity. Now I understand how ClusterB's can be so controlling that they might want to follow me to my office (real life) but I do not fear for my life from them. People hide behind the internet for lack of transparency. What am I missing? why so necessary to retain anonymity?
 
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slowlybutshelly

slowlybutshelly

ms4
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Never watched her. only seen one or two episodes ever. She looks like a stereotypical blonde.
That's a photo of Amy Pohlet, Saturday Noght Live actress and star of the television show "Parks and Recreation".
 

Horse Apiece

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If you're not a troll this is very disheartening. Have you thought about another career path? At some point you have to cut your losses...
 
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I am not a troll; my name is shelly and yes it is all true. No, I am a scientist at heart, so I have not thought of another career path. I am burnt out and my parents are poor, elderly, and I cannot provide for them. So that part is disheartening. and the fact I was given an F for a course I passed just because UVM admin decided to play games with me. A pathology professor at the school actually told me 'this type of thing doesnt usually happen here'. lie. I bet it has happened over and over again and no one has said anything.

This happened to me after I came back from Africa in the Peace corps. right around the time that the stanford professor in neurology was suing her male colleagues in a tell all book (playing with the boys). there is enough back and forth between east and west coast for me to believe that the bubble of 'do not take conflicts outside into the media' was becoming a norm. so here I sit today wondering how 90%ile scores on the MCAT, Peace corps service, can land me in places where ' I am not happy where my feet landed'. The system is broken...but I did not break it. I am just their scapegoat.

I did find out today that MCAT score prior to 1990 are not in the electronic record system but that I can fill out some paperwork for them to retrieve it from ???? whereever it might be. and pay a fee, of course.

Meanwhile, I am supposed to sit quietly in a corner and sulk..because it only happened to me?

Advice on how any of you would have handled it?
What happened to you exactly? I'm confused and what you've said is a bit vague. What was the reason they gave you an F?
 
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slowlybutshelly

slowlybutshelly

ms4
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I uploaded a file about the situation but was advised against keeping it up. I am happy to share it with anyone by email if they would like to know. [email protected]. It was circa 1992. I was entrapped in admin acting liking Narcissists. certain people in the school believed med students were guilty until proven innocent. Many people have suggested writing my story, telling it. But I have been staying anonymous in angst. the statute of limitations is up so I can't get compensated for my pain. But it was severe discrimination. I was the only out of state student embroiled in in state conflict. I was the stranger in the kingdom.

I am curious to share my story and see what others might have done/still would do about it. Thanks.
 

FCMike11

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I am not a troll; my name is shelly and yes it is all true. No, I am a scientist at heart, so I have not thought of another career path. I am burnt out and my parents are poor, elderly, and I cannot provide for them. So that part is disheartening. and the fact I was given an F for a course I passed just because UVM admin decided to play games with me. A pathology professor at the school actually told me 'this type of thing doesnt usually happen here'. lie. I bet it has happened over and over again and no one has said anything.


Advice on how any of you would have handled it?
Move on with my life..what do you plan to do with your degree /if/ you are able to obtain it?

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slowlybutshelly

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I love your quote about the brick walls. Currently banging my head into one. How did I go from getting a 99%ile on MCat in 1989 to a US medical school out of state,from the cream of the crop to the bottom feeder (few really know that I am a cajun and grew up 3 wheeling through crawfish ponds). I would love to get my degree, have a family, mainstream my life in some way; and give back. sort of like harry connicks speech at Loyola 2016 commencement; one hand going forward and the other reaching behind to help people. I have been doing that all my life and am just tired. I need to read the book 'compassion fatigue'. me focusing on me will be hard. just what i can do, without being entrapped and made to believe I cannot. At this point just having a car that I choose and a roof over my head that doesn't leak at age 50 would be nice. and children and a family....

I plan to be ethical and pay back my federal and private student loans. I am not even sure what my dream is...
I took the personality inventory and it matched me in anesthesiology (99%). neurosurgery, dermatology and radiology.

Move on with my life..what do you plan to do with your degree /if/ you are able to obtain it?

Sent from my Nexus 6P using SDN mobile
an
 
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slowlybutshelly

slowlybutshelly

ms4
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I saw you were on SDN mobile. I am on an iphone 6 mobile. can you tell me how to access SDN mobile (is there and app for it or do you just open it up on the computer)? currently my mother is in a nursing home and father has 10k worth of bills to pay from CIPD; my hope would be to buy a home and and get my parents into long term health care; even though my sister and mom are wacko...

I plan to pay off my federal loans and private loans and live on protein shakes (mannatech, advocare, or herbalife).
Move on with my life..what do you plan to do with your degree /if/ you are able to obtain it?

Sent from my Nexus 6P using SDN mobile[/QUOTe
 

Nucleophile1

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But But is that you in your profile pic? If so, why the recommendation only for me? My time with Ross expired in 2012. Along with my Step1. Currently applying to third medical school. I do have recommendation letters from Ross Dean and faculty.
I'm flattered that you thought that was me. That is Amy Poehler portraying Leslie Knopes from Parks and Recreation, a favorite show of mine. It's wise to have anonymity on the Internet.

If you want to go to medical school, you will HAVE to take the new MCAT. Don't bother trying to get your old scores; schools will not accept them.

What is your GPA? cGPA and sGPA.

What have you done in the way of EC's?

You seem to indicate that you failed out of Ross. I wouldn't recommend getting letters from a school that you failed out of unless you are 100% sure that they will be excellent

Keep in mind that you ou have attended two medical schools and have not finished school at each one. This is going to throw up a HUGE red flag for Admissions committees. Even with an excellent MCAT, you are not guaranteed a seat in medical school. Have you considered PA or NP school? Podiatry school? Physical therapy?
 
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FCMike11

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I'm flattered that you thought that was me. That is Amy Poehler portraying Leslie Knopes from Parks and Recreation, a favorite show of mine. It's wise to have anonymity on the Internet.

If you want to go to medical school, you will HAVE to take the new MCAT. Don't bother trying to get your old scores; schools will not accept them.

What is your GPA? cGPA and sGPA.

What have you done in the way of EC's?

You seem to indicate that you failed out of Ross. I wouldn't recommend getting letters from a school that you failed out of unless you are 100% sure that they will be excellent

Keep in mind that you ou have attended two medical schools and have not finished school at each one. This is going to throw up a HUGE red flag for Admissions committees. Even with an excellent MCAT, you are not guaranteed a seat in medical school. Have you considered PA or NP school? Podiatry school? Physical therapy?
This is more or less what I was getting at, Shelly. Residency selection is also increasingly becoming more competitive as well. But that's really only a later hurdle if a school overlooks your multiple dismissals.
I saw you were on SDN mobile. I am on an iphone 6 mobile. can you tell me how to access SDN mobile (is there and app for it or do you just open it up on the computer)? currently my mother is in a nursing home and father has 10k worth of bills to pay from CIPD; my hope would be to buy a home and and get my parents into long term health care; even though my sister and mom are wacko...

I plan to pay off my federal loans and private loans and live on protein shakes (mannatech, advocare, or herbalife).
There is an SDN app on the android app store. No idea about apple.

Sent from my Nexus 6P using SDN mobile
 
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slowlybutshelly

slowlybutshelly

ms4
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No. I did not fail out of Ross. I passed Step1, Step2CS. I did fail Step2ck 4 times which is the limit in LA. But I have had the excuse (if I may) of Katrina, Gustav, now these floods, and elderly parents being hospitalized - and three hospitalizations in my family within 6 months. I know most psychologists say that I am only responsible for myself. but it has been so hard...
 
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slowlybutshelly

slowlybutshelly

ms4
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With all do respect, I have functioned highly in undergrad, abroad, and in other states outside the area where my family is - with no support system. cultivating a support system is fundamental to me now. I watch communities celebrate passing scores of students and wonder how ...that did NOT happen to me at UVM. I am certainly not as resilient as some people think I am either.
This is more or less what I was getting at, Shelly. Residency selection is also increasingly becoming more competitive as well. But that's really only a later hurdle if a school overlooks your multiple dismissals.

There is an SDN app on the android app store. No idea about apple.

Sent from my Nexus 6P using SDN mobile
 
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slowlybutshelly

slowlybutshelly

ms4
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I got into UVM with a 2.7 from Duke. yes yes I know. But I was a psychology and zoology major with a degree in neuroscience in 1988. way before places like Tulane got Neuroscience degrees around 2000. I was with cutting edge people finding the gene for early onset Alzheimer's and got a research publication out of it. ApoE4. I think what happened to me at UVM was a bit of a culture bound syndrome and terrible misfit of school admin; deans of that med school smoked like feigns. I am much happier in LA my home state; if I can just convince people to welcome me back. and why din't I apply here? I do not know...
I'm flattered that you thought that was me. That is Amy Poehler portraying Leslie Knopes from Parks and Recreation, a favorite show of mine. It's wise to have anonymity on the Internet.

If you want to go to medical school, you will HAVE to take the new MCAT. Don't bother trying to get your old scores; schools will not accept them.

What is your GPA? cGPA and sGPA.

What have you done in the way of EC's?

You seem to indicate that you failed out of Ross. I wouldn't recommend getting letters from a school that you failed out of unless you are 100% sure that they will be excellent

Keep in mind that you ou have attended two medical schools and have not finished school at each one. This is going to throw up a HUGE red flag for Admissions committees. Even with an excellent MCAT, you are not guaranteed a seat in medical school. Have you considered PA or NP school? Podiatry school? Physical therapy?
 
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slowlybutshelly

slowlybutshelly

ms4
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I also have an MPH in international epidemiology from Tulane. over 3.5 GPA. BUT I cannot upload to ERAS because I failed Step2ck 4 times. BY the way, it used to be that you could be in residency without having to pass Step2ck; one could be in a ten year surgery residency (decade with Dick at Duke) and not have to take Step2ck until the end. So why Ross makes its students Pass Step2ck before getting a residency I do not know.
 

Nucleophile1

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No. I did not fail out of Ross. I passed Step1, Step2CS. I did fail Step2ck 4 times which is the limit in LA. But I have had the excuse (if I may) of Katrina, Gustav, now these floods, and elderly parents being hospitalized - and three hospitalizations in my family within 6 months. I know most psychologists say that I am only responsible for myself. but it has been so hard...
I'm sorry for your series of unfortunate events, but ADCOMs are not going to overlook 4 failures. You shouldn't have continued to re-take the test when you weren't ready; it shows poor decision making skills. How far apart were these re-takes?

I got into UVM with a 2.7 from Duke. yes yes I know. But I was a psychology and zoology major with a degree in neuroscience in 1988. way before places like Tulane got Neuroscience degrees around 2000. I was with cutting edge people finding the gene for early onset Alzheimer's and got a research publication out of it. ApoE4. I think what happened to me at UVM was a bit of a culture bound syndrome and terrible misfit of school admin; deans of that med school smoked like feigns. I am much happier in LA my home state; if I can just convince people to welcome me back. and why din't I apply here? I do not know...
2.7 is too low for US medical schools. With your history of failing Step 2CK four times and leaving two medical schools, it is not looking good for you. I know that is probably not what you want to hear, but I want to be honest with you so that you do not waste more time and money. I strongly encourage you to pursue other options. PA and NP are both great careers. I saw you like anesthesia. Have you considered a nurse anesthetist program? It doesn't cost as much as medical school and you will be practicing much sooner.

I also have an MPH in international epidemiology from Tulane. over 3.5 GPA. BUT I cannot upload to ERAS because I failed Step2ck 4 times. BY the way, it used to be that you could be in residency without having to pass Step2ck; one could be in a ten year surgery residency (decade with Dick at Duke) and not have to take Step2ck until the end. So why Ross makes its students Pass Step2ck before getting a residency I do not know.
In the US, you have to pass Step2CK before graduating medical schools.
 
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slowlybutshelly

slowlybutshelly

ms4
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I am already maxed out 552k in federal and private student loan debt; I cannot take out more money for any other education. My curriculum at Duke was essentially undergrad med school; I worked my whole last year in the NC mental health system seeing patients under the tutelage of the President. I was more than prepared for medical school. I passed my first year easily. then 'the incident'; then I did not want to stay there anymore. Failed first attempt at Step1 in 1994. badly. This was during pen and paper; bubble in scan tron exams. I figured out I was an audio learner whilst at Ross; my scores dramatically improved. But it took me a lot psychologically to come back from my ordeal - and I only passed Step1 on my 5th attempt.

Passed Step2CS first attempt in Atlanta. I took first attempt at Step2ck 2006 new years eve when the ball was dropping in times square. kinda stupid. next attempt was 2007 in Louisiana after being incredibly burned out. thrid attempt in illinois 2009. Decided to give myself a break and my 7 year deadline was May 2011. But in 2010, my mother suffered a catastrophic leg injury and landed in ICU. My father got pneumonia and almost died. my brotehr got a cavernous sinus thrombosis; 3 hospitalizatiosn within 6 months and I freaked. I asked Ross admin for an extension of my deadline; they refused. said terrible things to me. and I failed it on 4th attempt in nov 2010 by a few points.

I know what my strengths (audio learner) and weaknesses (timing issues) are with exam taking and I know I have complex PTSD from UVM situation (which I am working through in therapy now).

I know I could pass all these exams again. A residency director here in La has suggested that I take Step3 and if I pass it the first time, she would advocate for me to the board. But I cannot register for Step3.

SO first I need a diploma ( I was 7 weeks from graduation) then I need to be able to take Step3.
 
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slowlybutshelly

slowlybutshelly

ms4
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I have heard in the foreign community that people have taken step3 before other exams. If you know anyone who has done this, can you please put them in touch with me?
I am already maxed out 552k in federal and private student loan debt; I cannot take out more money for any other education. My curriculum at Duke was essentially undergrad med school; I worked my whole last year in the NC mental health system seeing patients under the tutelage of the President. I was more than prepared for medical school. I passed my first year easily. then 'the incident'; then I did not want to stay there anymore. Failed first attempt at Step1 in 1994. badly. This was during pen and paper; bubble in scan tron exams. I figured out I was an audio learner whilst at Ross; my scores dramatically improved. But it took me a lot psychologically to come back from my ordeal - and I only passed Step1 on my 5th attempt.

Passed Step2CS first attempt in Atlanta. I took first attempt at Step2ck 2006 new years eve when the ball was dropping in times square. kinda stupid. next attempt was 2007 in Louisiana after being incredibly burned out. thrid attempt in illinois 2009. Decided to give myself a break and my 7 year deadline was May 2011. But in 2010, my mother suffered a catastrophic leg injury and landed in ICU. My father got pneumonia and almost died. my brotehr got a cavernous sinus thrombosis; 3 hospitalizatiosn within 6 months and I freaked. I asked Ross admin for an extension of my deadline; they refused. said terrible things to me. and I failed it on 4th attempt in nov 2010 by a few points.

I know what my strengths (audio learner) and weaknesses (timing issues) are with exam taking and I know I have complex PTSD from UVM situation (which I am working through in therapy now).

I know I could pass all these exams again. A residency director here in La has suggested that I take Step3 and if I pass it the first time, she would advocate for me to the board. But I cannot register for Step3.

SO first I need a diploma ( I was 7 weeks from graduation) then I need to be able to take Step3.
 

Horse Apiece

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You should look into podiatry, dentistry, and PA programs, but I honestly have no idea how you would fund them. No medical school is going to take you since you have already have taken the boards, and also you need an MCAT taken within the last 3ish years to apply depending on school, and most schools are phasing out the old MCAT's by this next app cycle. If you did some research and formulated a good plan, you could potentially try to work for a nonprofit org for 10 years, to get federal loan forgiveness.
 
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slowlybutshelly

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My plan right now is to study uworld and be prepared to take Steps again. It used to be that a person could take Step 1 as many times as possible; then they changed it to a 6 attempt rule in 2013. My argument is that I should not be subject to a 6 attempt rule because I passed my Step1 on 5th attempt. IF I was a USA student, I would not be subject to 6 attempt rule. But because I am ECFMG...here I am.

I cannot do dentistry; spend my life in a dentist's office. same with podiatry. The Pa's I talk to tell me to keep trying to finish medical school. funding another education is not a choice. I must persist.
 
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I am interested in hearing from people about what they would do if they were me.
 

WhittyPsyche

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You really sound stuck in the past. You repeatedly say it used to be this way and that way... The reality is it's NOT that way anymore. You had 5 attempts at Step 1, it sounds like your family health issues were on the later attempts so I'm not sure you can use that as a crotch. You do not have a limit on the amount of times because you are an IMG. EVERYONE has limits on the number of times and the time period.

You are in therapy, great. You have to get passed "the incident", it's been over two decades. Like seriously, it's been my entire life and then some and you're still obsessed with something you cannot change.
You are very likely not getting into medical school. Your chances are beyond slim, they're minuscule. You have taken the steps already, retaking multiple times after failures and you've attended multiple schools and failed, you are the definition of High Risk for admissions. You need to take the advice above and start thinking about another career path and a way to pay down your mountain of debt. You are at least 48-50 years old now, so you need to seriously consider if you get through medical school, how much longevity you have for a residency and then to start making enough money to pay back your educational loans. After another go at it, you'll be looking at ~750k of debt and near retirement age.


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Mad Jack

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But But is that you in your profile pic? If so, why the recommendation only for me? My time with Ross expired in 2012. Along with my Step1. Currently applying to third medical school. I do have recommendation letters from Ross Dean and faculty.
If you have left two prior medical schools, the chances of a third one taking you stateside are literally zero. Your reasons for leaving are unimportant- you have a record of failing to finish what you start, and one that has followed you. Furthermore, there are a lot of licensing intricacies that might come up depending on how old your Step 1 is that might make getting a license difficult in some states even if you were miraculously able to finish. Your odds are not just bad, they are impossible.

And I just noticed you had five Step 1 attempts- that will bar you from licensure in the majority of states and certainly prevent you from matching.
 

Mad Jack

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I am interested in hearing from people about what they would do if they were me.
Declare overwhelming bankruptcy with no ability to repay my loans and move on to a new field. You can get loans this extensive dismissed if you truly have no ability to repay, as in your case.
 
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slowlybutshelly

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ms4
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I just got a letter from Iowa; they have a limit of 6 attempts on step1. I passed on my 5th attempt. They have a limit of Step2ck and can combined as 6 attempts. I passed step2cs first time. Failed Step2ck 4 times so I should have one last attempt:)


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