MCAT score vs. opinion on relevance

[MoosePilot]

Please choose the combination of your score range and your opinion of the relevance of MCAT score.

---

Members don't see this ad.

 

[Pinkertinkle]

I don't think the test is irrelevant, scores in the range of 30-34 are all the same, 35+ too.

 

[Khenon]

I think relevancy is personal. For people who've been out of school for some time, it's just testing your ability to re-memorize and re-learn long forgotten material, that holds no use in medical school. I think the point of the test is to determine one's ability to read critically, interpret data, and assimilate foreign information in a short amount of time. The material chosen (physics, chemistry, etc) is because most people applying to med school are undergrads and have this info fresh in their minds. But for those who've been out of school, it's more difficult. I know there's no other way to test for this, but I definitely don't think the MCAT holds any relevance for someone like me.

 

[Mistress S]

Do you mean, do I think the score is relevant in the application process, or relevant as an indicator of my intelligience or abilities? Clearly med schools care deeply about scores, but although I scored decent overall I do not feel this says much about me personally.

 

[liverotcod]

Interesting poll, MoosePilot.

 

[juniper456]

clever-- very clever.

 

[MoosePilot]

My personal intent was "do you think the test measures any traits which will lead to you being a better student or doctor". Choices needed to be somewhat short, though, and I wanted to leave some room for folks to define it themselves.

My thought was that very few who scored low would think it was relevant and more who scored high would. I think people should consider the significance of that.

 

[sdnstud]

relevant to what? relevant to med school admissions?

My stats:
Applied 2003: GPA=3.8, MCAT=27 (10P/7V/10B), Applied to 20, 1 interview, 0 acceptance.

Applied 2005: GPA=3.8, MCAT=33 (12P/9V/12B), Applied to 38, 6+ interview (I was Aug MCATer, it is still early for us), 0 acceptance so far (my first interview in Dec)

 

[waterski232002]

This is an excellent question you pose... I am curious how many of you are Pre-med, Pre-clinical med students (1st or 2nd yrs), clinical med students (3rd or 4th yrs), or physicians...

The reason I think this is so interesting is that the MCAT was originally created because it was supposed to predict which students would score well on the USMLE exams. This is obviously important for the medical institutions who are granting admissions because they want all their students to be successful and have as close to a 100% pass rate as they can. From what I have witnessed in medical school, MCAT scores in no way whatsoever predict a person's success on the USMLE.

IMO it is largely because the MCAT does not really test what DOES make a person successful in medical school: dedication, determination, and hard-workl. Everyone who gets in has brains, and I would argue that anyone who scores over a 24 has brains. It seems as if people like to hold on to this "magical" number 30 as to who is "smart" or "worthy" of medical school. This is a human construct that has been artificially established by applicants/medical institutions. You'll find that once you enter medical school (for those who do), the MCAT means nothing and your work-ethic will make or break you. I have seen many friends and colleague with MCAT scores in the 32-34 range fail out of medical school. As with anything else, the MCAT needs to be judged along with the rest of the applicant's total package.

To some extent the MCAT does test your determination and perseverance. Thus it isn't totally ridiculous, although the content is almost entirely irrelevant.

I would bet that if you asked this same question to people who are medical school graduates or 3rd/4th year clinical medical students (who have taken at least USMLE step I), they will agree that the only way the MCAT is similar to the USMLE is it's ability to see if you can withstand a 12 hr marathon of stress.

 

[kenmc3]

This is an excellent question you pose... I am curious how many of you are Pre-med, Pre-clinical med students (1st or 2nd yrs), clinical med students (3rd or 4th yrs), or physicians...

The reason I think this is so interesting is that the MCAT was originally created because it was supposed to predict which students would score well on the USMLE exams. This is obviously important for the medical institutions who are granting admissions because they want all their students to be successful and have as close to a 100% pass rate as they can. From what I have witnessed in medical school, MCAT scores in no way whatsoever predict a person's success on the USMLE.

IMO it is largely because the MCAT does not really test what DOES make a person successful in medical school: dedication, determination, and hard-workl. Everyone who gets in has brains, and I would argue that anyone who scores over a 24 has brains. It seems as if people like to hold on to this "magical" number 30 as to who is "smart" or "worthy" of medical school. This is a human construct that has been artificially established by applicants/medical institutions. You'll find that once you enter medical school (for those who do), the MCAT means nothing and your work-ethic will make or break you. I have seen many friends and colleague with MCAT scores in the 32-34 range fail out of medical school. As with anything else, the MCAT needs to be judged along with the rest of the applicant's total package.

To some extent the MCAT does test your determination and perseverance. Thus it isn't totally ridiculous, although the content is almost entirely irrelevant.

I would bet that if you asked this same question to people who are medical school graduates or 3rd/4th year clinical medical students (who have taken at least USMLE step I), they will agree that the only way the MCAT is similar to the USMLE is it's ability to see if you can withstand a 12 hr marathon of stress.

Excellent post waterski. I agree, the MCAT is merely a predictor on how well you take tests, similar to the SAT. My SAT score was below average for my undergrad school yet my scholastic performance is in the top 5% of my class. So obviously my SAT score hasn’t predicted my college performance. The same will prob be true of med school. I scored below a 30 yet I have still received acceptances. While I haven’t started med school yet I took a full med school course load over the summer as part of a special program and received all A's with less effort than I expected. Most people I talk to agree – the MCAT is a “fair” representation of your USMLE score but in no way predicts your ability to succeed in med school. With competition the way it is these days “popular” schools need an extra way to weed out students, even if it is a poor method. I know plenty of people who scored below a 30 and I consider to be truly brilliant while I know others who score above a 35 who would seem to have the intelligence of a rock if you were to meet them on the street.

 

[MoosePilot]

This is an excellent question you pose... I am curious how many of you are Pre-med, Pre-clinical med students (1st or 2nd yrs), clinical med students (3rd or 4th yrs), or physicians...

The reason I think this is so interesting is that the MCAT was originally created because it was supposed to predict which students would score well on the USMLE exams. This is obviously important for the medical institutions who are granting admissions because they want all their students to be successful and have as close to a 100% pass rate as they can. From what I have witnessed in medical school, MCAT scores in no way whatsoever predict a person's success on the USMLE.

IMO it is largely because the MCAT does not really test what DOES make a person successful in medical school: dedication, determination, and hard-workl. Everyone who gets in has brains, and I would argue that anyone who scores over a 24 has brains. It seems as if people like to hold on to this "magical" number 30 as to who is "smart" or "worthy" of medical school. This is a human construct that has been artificially established by applicants/medical institutions. You'll find that once you enter medical school (for those who do), the MCAT means nothing and your work-ethic will make or break you. I have seen many friends and colleague with MCAT scores in the 32-34 range fail out of medical school. As with anything else, the MCAT needs to be judged along with the rest of the applicant's total package.

To some extent the MCAT does test your determination and perseverance. Thus it isn't totally ridiculous, although the content is almost entirely irrelevant.

I would bet that if you asked this same question to people who are medical school graduates or 3rd/4th year clinical medical students (who have taken at least USMLE step I), they will agree that the only way the MCAT is similar to the USMLE is it's ability to see if you can withstand a 12 hr marathon of stress.

Do a search for a correlation between USMLE and MCAT. You may not see it anectdotally, but it has been documented in at least one study.

http://www.aamc.org/students/mcat/research/bibliography/koeni008.htm

You say anyone with over a 24 has brains. Well, you have to define your terms. What does "brains" mean in this context? A less than average performance on a test taken by most serious pre-medical students? Most pre-med students are intelligent. It's difficult to graduate from college without intelligence, but med schools don't take all intelligent pre-meds. They're looking to sort between numerous intelligent applicants. I think the MCAT does test something relevant to success as a medical student. I think hard work and dedication trumps everything else, but I think the MCAT does test proficiency with basic biology, chemistry, and physics, and the ability to choose the most correct answer from a group of answers on unfamiliar material.

 

[waterski232002]

Do a search for a correlation between USMLE and MCAT. You may not see it anectdotally, but it has been documented in at least one study.

http://www.aamc.org/students/mcat/research/bibliography/koeni008.htm

You say anyone with over a 24 has brains. Well, you have to define your terms. What does "brains" mean in this context? A less than average performance on a test taken by most serious pre-medical students? Most pre-med students are intelligent. It's difficult to graduate from college without intelligence, but med schools don't take all intelligent pre-meds. They're looking to sort between numerous intelligent applicants. I think the MCAT does test something relevant to success as a medical student. I think hard work and dedication trumps everything else, but I think the MCAT does test proficiency with basic biology, chemistry, and physics, and the ability to choose the most correct answer from a group of answers on unfamiliar material.

Good link to some factual information; however, I would argue that this article actually supports my point. Correlation coefficients predicting the Basic Science performance in medical school based on Undergrad GPA was .56, and based on MCAT scores were .64. This tells me that it was only slightly higher than flipping a coin to predict whether a student will be "successful" based on these criterion individually. If I were a betting man, I wouldn't put my money on either one of these!!!

If you use both the GPA and MCAT scores to predict med school grades then we begin to see a little improvement with a correlation coefficient of .73 which is slightly more impressive (almost 3 out of 4 people who were "successful" in undergrad based on GPA and MCAT combined were actually "successful" in the first 2 years of med school). This emphasizes the point that the MCAT should be used in unison with other predictors and NOT alone.

If you look at qualities which people maintain in order to have BOTH a high GPA and a high MCAT score, it is usually hard-work and determination, with some neurons firing once in awhile too. Students who have good overall application packages (decent GPA, decent MCAT, and likely have a balanced resume) will probably indicate this type of well-rounded and intelligent student. If they are brilliant but lazy their GPA may struggle. On the other hand, if they are a hard-worker, but may be intellectually challenged, then the MCAT may suffer.

My only caveat is that the study results are hard to correctly interpret without more detail. For instance, how was a student determined to be "successful" in medical school, and what was a "successful" USMLE/MCAT score. Were the authors classification of successful scores arbitrary, or based on pass/fail, or based on percentiles?

Realistically, your proficiency in biology, chemistry, and physics should be apparent based on your undergraduate grades. Furthermore, these topics are not crucial to your success in medical school... again, they are a test of your ability to analyze and understand scientific data. A do agree that the MCAT does set a standard for proficiency in these categories across all undergraduate institutions and does show one's ability to analyze basic data, but does not necessarily correlate with your success in medical school.

 

[dr.z]

Whether it is relevant or not, I'll let the med schools decide. I just hate that test!

 

[UseUrHeadFred]

I scored 25 or less and think MCAT score is relevant  	   	2  	3.77%
I scored 25 or less and think MCAT score is irrelevant 		7 	13.21%
I scored between 26 and 29 and think MCAT score is relevant 	3 	5.66%
I scored between 26 and 29 and think MCAT score is irrelevant 	8 	15.09%
I scored 30 or above and think MCAT score is relevant 		27 	50.94%
I scored 30 or above and think MCAT score is irrelevant 	6 	11.32%

My god! We need to convince those people that the MCAT is important before they take it! Their opinion that it doesn't matter is causing them to score lower!

(Get it? I misinterpreted... correlation/caus... oh nevermind.)

 

[paintsites]

Just get a copy of the MSAR data! You'll quickly see that students who receive 28 on MCAT are accepted about 50% of the time, while students at 34+ are accepted about 80%.

It makes a huge difference.

 

[Nutmeg]

My god! We need to convince those people that the MCAT is important before they take it! Their opinion that it doesn't matter is causing them to score lower!

(Get it? I misinterpreted... correlation/caus... oh nevermind.)

 

[jeffsleepy]

Good link to some factual information; however, I would argue that this article actually supports my point. Correlation coefficients predicting the Basic Science performance in medical school based on Undergrad GPA was .56, and based on MCAT scores were .64. This tells me that it was only slightly higher than flipping a coin to predict whether a student will be "successful" based on these criterion individually. If I were a betting man, I wouldn't put my money on either one of these!!!

If you use both the GPA and MCAT scores to predict med school grades then we begin to see a little improvement with a correlation coefficient of .73 which is slightly more impressive (almost 3 out of 4 people who were "successful" in undergrad based on GPA and MCAT combined were actually "successful" in the first 2 years of med school). This emphasizes the point that the MCAT should be used in unison with other predictors and NOT alone.

This isn't the correct use of the coefficient. If you use a random coin flip to predict success, you will end up with a r value of 0, not 0.5. Also, the .73 should be used to predict the number of standard deviations away from the average. If we use what you're saying, an r value of 0 would mean that successful people in college are always unsuccessful in med school, which is untrue.

 

[Khenon]

relevant to what? relevant to med school admissions?

My stats:
Applied 2003: GPA=3.8, MCAT=27 (10P/7V/10B), Applied to 20, 1 interview, 0 acceptance.

Applied 2005: GPA=3.8, MCAT=33 (12P/9V/12B), Applied to 38, 6+ interview (I was Aug MCATer, it is still early for us), 0 acceptance so far (my first interview in Dec)

Great point sdsnstud! Is the MCAT score relevent to one getting into med school? HELL YEAH!!