MCAT to USMLE regression model

[Jathin]

Hello.

I was just curious -- does anyone happen to have a link to the studies/papers correlating MCAT to USMLE scores (Step 1 in particular, but 2 + 3 would be great too)?

In particular, I'm looking for the actual regression data (regression coefficient, regression line, slopes, etc.) I keep hearing that the MCAT is a good predictor of USMLE scores, but I haven't seen any quantification of it yet. I'd like to take a look at what the data are like, as a fun (read: I am bored out of my mind) thought experiment.

Thanks.

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[Doublecortin]

Hello.

I was just curious -- does anyone happen to have a link to the studies/papers correlating MCAT to USMLE scores (Step 1 in particular, but 2 + 3 would be great too)?

In particular, I'm looking for the actual regression data (regression coefficient, regression line, slopes, etc.) I keep hearing that the MCAT is a good predictor of USMLE scores, but I haven't seen any quantification of it yet. I'd like to take a look at what the data are like, as a fun (read: I am bored out of my mind) thought experiment.

Thanks.

i've read on here that there is actually very slight correlation between the two.

I also find it interesting how very high MCAT scores averages at a school doesn't necessarily translate into very high boards at that school vs. other schools. Case in point: WashU with its insane average of 37, I don't remember their board numbers, I am sure they do well, but not spectacularly well, the same range as many schools that have average matriculant MCAT of 32-35

but I am curious to see what others say.

 

[VoiceofReason]

i've read on here that there is actually very slight correlation between the two.

I also find it interesting how very high MCAT scores averages at a school doesn't necessarily translate into very high boards at that school vs. other schools. Case in point: WashU with its insane average of 37, I don't remember their board numbers, I am sure they do well, but not spectacularly well, the same range as many schools that have average matriculant MCAT of 32-35

but I am curious to see what others say.

Yeah I think this is a fairly accurate statement. It at least supports the idea that most MD programs give you the same medical education overall.

 

[TheRealMD]

Yeah I think this is a fairly accurate statement. It at least supports the idea that most MD programs give you the same medical education overall.

Or one test is knowledge whereas the other heavily relies on reasoning.

 

[Doublecortin]

Or one test is knowledge whereas the other heavily relies on reasoning.

you mean MCAT relies heavily on reasoning and step relies on knowledge?

 

[TheRealMD]

you mean MCAT relies heavily on reasoning and step relies on knowledge?

Err.. well, I'm not a med student but my impression is that the Step is more of a knowledge test compared to the MCAT (which sways heavily into reasoning).

Then again, what do I know? perhaps a med student can chime in?

 

[Doublecortin]

Err.. well, I'm not a med student but my impression is that the Step is more of a knowledge test compared to the MCAT (which sways heavily into reasoning).

Then again, what do I know? perhaps a med student can chime in?

dude, are you really 18!!!????!!!

 

[TheRealMD]

dude, are you really 18!!!????!!!

Lemme double-check my license. Yep. 18 years old.

 

[VoiceofReason]

I was under the impression that the USMLEs were applied knowledge just like the physical science and biological science sections of the MCAT.

 

[lord_jeebus]

Err.. well, I'm not a med student but my impression is that the Step is more of a knowledge test compared to the MCAT (which sways heavily into reasoning).

Then again, what do I know? perhaps a med student can chime in?

Step I is a test of a much more extensive knowledge base, but to assume (as many med students do) that it doesn't require sophisticated reasoning is a mistake. It is very good at rewarding "understanders" and punishing "memorizers."

 

[VoiceofReason]

Step I is a test of a much more extensive knowledge base, but to assume (as many med students do) that it doesn't require sophisticated reasoning is a mistake. It is very good at rewarding "understanders" and punishing "memorizers."

As things should be. I'm not sure why anyone would assume that the Steps wouldn't be this way.

 

[TheRealMD]

Step I is a test of a much more extensive knowledge base, but to assume (as many med students do) that it doesn't require sophisticated reasoning is a mistake. It is very good at rewarding "understanders" and punishing "memorizers."

Would you say it has less reasoning than the MCAT?

 

[diosa428]

Many premeds take the MCAT multiple times, but you are not allowed to retake the USMLE if you pass, which would have to be taken into account when doing or interpreting such a study.

 

[lord_jeebus]

Would you say it has less reasoning than the MCAT?

It's a different kind of reasoning, so it's hard to compare.

 

[Maxprime]

I think the more interesting statistic is variance of MCAT vs. boards. If a class is full of 40's & 30's, do they see a homogenization of board scores?

 

[TheRealMD]

I think the more interesting statistic is variance of MCAT vs. boards. If a class is full of 40's & 30's, do they see a homogenization of board scores?

Sounds like a chicken and egg problem all over again.

"Does the school teach the student or the student take more advantage of what the school has to offer?"

It's like asking if you went to a "better" school, will you get a better board score.

 

[Doublecortin]

Lemme double-check my license. Yep. 18 years old.

jesus!!!

how old were you when you started college?

 

[TheRealMD]

jesus!!!

how old were you when you started college?

Err.. 15?

 

[Maxprime]

Sounds like a chicken and egg problem all over again.

"Does the school teach the student or the student take more advantage of what the school has to offer?"

It's like asking if you went to a "better" school, will you get a better board score.

I meant inside the same class at a given school - do the students, on average, with better MCATs score better than students in the same environment with lower MCATs.

 

[Doublecortin]

I meant inside the same class at a given school - do the students, on average, with better MCATs score better than students in the same environment with lower MCATs.

i think the latter, step1 averages are pretty similar across the board, i believe, at least there is no clear trend of schools with higher mcat averages having higher board averages

 

[StealthNerd]

Err.. well, I'm not a med student but my impression is that the Step is more of a knowledge test compared to the MCAT (which sways heavily into reasoning).

Then again, what do I know? perhaps a med student can chime in?

dude, are you really 18!!!????!!!

Lemme double-check my license. Yep. 18 years old.

jesus!!!

how old were you when you started college?

Err.. 15?

Holy. Crap.

I simultaneously feel: A) like a ****** and B) full of hope for the future.

Go RealMD Go!!!

 

[Doublecortin]

Holy. Crap.

I simultaneously feel: A) like a ****** and B) full of hope for the future.

Go RealMD Go!!!

I second that

 

[TheRealMD]

Holy. Crap.

I simultaneously feel: A) like a ****** and B) full of hope for the future.

Go RealMD Go!!!

Oy, now. There's good reason why my MDapps wasn't available for people to see (and it's even been taken down again), because I don't really deserve this praise you SDN'ers keep giving me. I'm not that special!

 

[87138]

Err.. 15?

No offense, but why?

 

[TheRealMD]

No offense, but why?

I feel I've divulged quite a bit already. Let's just say... some grades went poof.

 

[StealthNerd]

I feel I've divulged quite a bit already. Let's just say... some grades went poof.

"poof"? What in the sweet hell do you mean "poof"? ... It seems you were already accepted to several schools (won't post which ones since you want to keep it private)... please tell me you didn't flunk any classes!!!

You were my hope!! My shining star!!! ... You even made me feel ******ed!!!

Please tell me that there is still hope for Homo sapien!!!



Seriously though, I wish you the best. I was just telling my spouse earlier this morning that we're sending our future kid to college at 16 and s/he will graduate at 19. That was really more for my early retirement than anything else. ... now because of your glorious example if we have kids I'm going to tell them to start applying at 11 or 12.

 

[LaMusicienne]

"poof"? What in the sweet hell do you mean "poof"? ... It seems you were already accepted to several schools (won't post which ones since you want to keep it private)... please tell me you didn't flunk any classes!!!

I think he meant, like, 9th 10th 11th grades... not ABC grades

 

[TheRealMD]

"poof"? What in the sweet hell do you mean "poof"? ... It seems you were already accepted to several schools (won't post which ones since you want to keep it private)... please tell me you didn't flunk any classes!!!

You were my hope!! My shining star!!! ... You even made me feel ******ed!!!

Please tell me that there is still hope for Homo sapien!!!



Seriously though, I wish you the best. I was just telling my spouse earlier this morning that we're sending our future kid to college at 16 and s/he will graduate at 19. That was really more for my early retirement than anything else. ... now because of your glorious example if we have kids I'm going to tell them to start applying at 11 or 12.

Well, the ones I care about are in my sig (scroll above to see). And if you are REALLY that interested in my MDapps page, I cam PM a link to you.

As for the kids comment... oy, my parents have been making oh so many comments about it since I found out about both on Christmas Eve.

 

[StealthNerd]

Well, the ones I care about are in my sig (scroll above to see). And if you are REALLY that interested in my MDapps page, I cam PM a link to you.

As for the kids comment... oy, my parents have been making oh so many comments about it since I found out about both on Christmas Eve.

Touche. ... Man, didn't even notice the sig.

Jesus dude. Seriously. You keep slappin me in the face like I'm some friggin '****! (please exuse the offensive language folks... I'm just not used to feeling dumb).

You know what? I blame the late hour and the fact that I'm sick. ... There. I feel better.

RealMD: You're still my hero. Want to study for the boards with me?

 

[Vihsadas]

Here's the first few links off of pubmed...

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/sites/e...ez.Pubmed.Pubmed_ResultsPanel.Pubmed_RVDocSum
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/sites/e...ez.Pubmed.Pubmed_ResultsPanel.Pubmed_RVDocSum
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/sites/e...ez.Pubmed.Pubmed_ResultsPanel.Pubmed_RVDocSum

(Note the author, and therefore the implicit bias to the MCAT as a better predictor, but hey...I'm not complaining. )
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/sites/e...ez.Pubmed.Pubmed_ResultsPanel.Pubmed_RVDocSum

And one about using a uGPA adjustment index to account for grading harshness across institutions for good measure.
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/sites/e...ez.Pubmed.Pubmed_ResultsPanel.Pubmed_RVDocSum

 

[diosa428]

There's a kid in my class who was 17 when we started school. We also had a 19 year old and 2 20 year olds. It was a little bit crazy.

 

[novastorm]

I for one don't take any of the AAMC's studies seriously.

 

[TheRealMD]

Touche. ... Man, didn't even notice the sig.

Jesus dude. Seriously. You keep slappin me in the face like I'm some friggin '****! (please exuse the offensive language folks... I'm just not used to feeling dumb).

You know what? I blame the late hour and the fact that I'm sick. ... There. I feel better.

RealMD: You're still my hero. Want to study for the boards with me?

*Repeat after me: TheRealMD is not special. TheRealMD is not special*

 

[StealthNerd]

*Repeat after me: TheRealMD is not special. TheRealMD is not special*

Fine Doogie, fine. You got it buddy.

 

[MsJLewis]

*Repeat after me: TheRealMD is not special. TheRealMD is not special*

Stop being modest. You're a rockstar. Ain't no shame in your game!