Hello everyone, English is my second language; I did my high school overseas. I did not know that I was going to come to America so I never bothered to learn English, however, when I came to the US, I was struggling with the language, I had to work a lot harder than the average American student, because while studying I had to translate almost a lot of words in each page and memorize them. I did Excellent in some high level classes like Microbiology, Human Physiology, etc, and I did ok in classes like humanities and history, it is not because I did not like history and humanities but I did not know most of the vocabularies. Any way to make the long story short, with my hard work I graduated a 3.6GPA in B.S from a good University in the US. Then I took the MCAT and I got very low score in the verbal reasoning, therefore, I got rejected by Medical schools in the US. I felt bad but I believed that In the middle of difficulty lies opportunity By Einstein So I took some time off. While working to pay my college loans, I discovered that I am good in business, so I started a very small project that was so successful that I made 580K profit by the third year, money made my life a lot easier, but it was success that made me feel so good. However, I never forget about my initial dream which is to become a doctor. I met a doctor in my town, who graduated from Ross medical school in the Caribbean, and he told me about it, so I applied and got accepted, but I was not satisfied with leaving the US, so I did not go. After working for some time I went back to school to review some of the sciences and I read the Economics, WSJ and I did EK101, AAMC, I studies for MCAT then I void it, so I read more and more so I can retake the Exam, I took a lot of advice from people, but I did not pass the verbal reasoning. Over the years I improved my reading from 100 to 200 words/min. I know that an average student can read 250 Words/min, and some students can read 350 words/min, however when you learn a new language it is not the same. Now I am older, I am 31 years, married and happy with a 3 year old and I dont want to wait any more, I just want to become a doctor, and so far it did not working for me in the US, right now Business is not doing as good as it did before, I dont want to expand my business, because I know if I move on the next step in the business world, I will never be able to go to medical school, so I hired a manager to run my business so I can go the Caribbean. My concern is that what if I dont make it in medical school, should I take my chances?, I heard that if you do poor on the MCAT you will do poor on the USMLE, I also head that it is not true, that students can do good in medical school without doing good in the MCAT. Because I was out of school for a while, I am thinking about going back to my university and take high level classes like Biochemistry, physiology, Anatomy, pharmacology and genetics, it will cost me about $8900 for fall and spring, then next year I am thinking about the Caribbean for two years and take my chances. Pleases let me know if you can help.
MCAT vs USMLE
- Thread starter whynotMD
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don't go to the Caribbean. It is a bad option that is looking worse every year.
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to this point in this week's NEJM:
http://www.nejm.org/doi/full/10.1056/NEJMp1306445?query=featured_home
What other options do I have??
Take some additional time to improve your English and subsequently your MCAT scores. How were your science scores? Chances are you *will* struggle a great deal with the USMLE if your reading speed and comprehension are not greater than they currently are. Each step is over 300 questions and each question is typically at least a few sentences. Se are longer. Occasionally, some are shorter.
Bottom line, you will have a difficult time even if you go to a school outside the US (if you want to come back to the US for residency).
Perhaps get a private English tutor. Read as much as you can daily. Newspapers, novels, scientific articles. All of this will help. Good luck to you...
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Spend a year studying the english language every awake minute. Do a few thousand practice questions. Read things like the economist. Take some difficult english courses.
You can improve your verbal skill but it will take work.
Improving you verbal may 'waste' a single year while not matching from a Caribbean is guaranteed to waste 4 years of your life regardless of your financial resources.
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Just to offer the contrarian viewpoint, if you just want to be a humble family physician the Caribbean may be an OK choice, but if you want to be a specialist you should not go there. Given your business prowess and strong desire to be a physician, it may be an acceptable option. However, there is an ever increasing risk of not matching.
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Gargamel always had a thing for blondes.
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Moving to PreAllo as OP is not a med student
I took a lot of time off, and my English did improve, but my verbal reasoning section did not, my sciences are 8 and 9.
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What was your verbal score?
OP osteopathic schools might be an option depending on your overall score.
OP osteopathic schools might be an option depending on your overall score.
low, what is the lowest a DO school will take?
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Edit: deleted ops quoted score
Ok, this is so low I would seriously worry about your ability to pass the steps. They require reading pretty quickly (not speed reading per se but a decent ability) and a decent comprehension of what you're reading.
You really need to improve your verbal score before you move on. Even a 6 or 7 would be a drastic improvement.
Ok, this is so low I would seriously worry about your ability to pass the steps. They require reading pretty quickly (not speed reading per se but a decent ability) and a decent comprehension of what you're reading.
You really need to improve your verbal score before you move on. Even a 6 or 7 would be a drastic improvement.
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not that low and I agree that's too high risk for future board exams.
maybe try an MCAT tutor or one on one with a student who has done well on the MCAT to see what specifically you're having a problem with on that section.
is it trouble finishing the passages, is a comprehension issue, is it certain questions types you struggle with? it's probably more than one of those, but different strategies are needed for different problems.
maybe try an MCAT tutor or one on one with a student who has done well on the MCAT to see what specifically you're having a problem with on that section.
is it trouble finishing the passages, is a comprehension issue, is it certain questions types you struggle with? it's probably more than one of those, but different strategies are needed for different problems.
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Find another career.
Face it, at 31 with a 3 year old, you have more important priorities, like feeding that little ****er.
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Considering OP claims to clear 580k, it boggles my mind that this thread exists.
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Considering OP claims to clear 580k, it boggles my mind that this thread exists.
Passion bro. Money isn't everything or so they say.
I scored a 9 in Biological Sciences, I read all the passages and I finished them on time and I did horrible in the verbal reasoning but it is not the same as USMLE at all. I don't think it is fair to stop my whole carrier because of the verbal reasoning, I know I am a second language speaker and I must to improve my reading. In the last two years I have improved my reading up to 200 words/min which nothing compare to an average American student, however my goal is to spend another year to improve my reading and to take higher level sciences that might help me in medical school and in the USMLE step 1.
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Passion bro. Money isn't everything or so they say.
it is true money is not everything, money can makes your life a lot easier but it is not everything.
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Passion bro. Money isn't everything or so they say.
Its not a matter of passion or drive. Its a matter of risk calculation. Moving his entire family to the caribbean for a shot at landing a US residency is unwise IMHO. Maybe if he was single and young but making this decision could adversely affect the people he cares most about. What can you do when you have a medical degree, mouths to feed, $300,000 of debt, and no residency?
OP, aim your passion to another field. If healthcare is where you need to be then go into it as something other than a physician.
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Okay, here is some honest advice:
It is true that the United States have and still are increasing the number of admitted medical students per year now. It is also true that there is still a freeze on the number of residencies (which by the way are funded by Medicare). The AMA is looking into seeing if they can increase the residencies however, upon looking at the data, the large amount of people applying to residencies are mostly applying to the top paying residencies and not applying (so much) for the Primary care residencies like family and pediatrics. If you look at the MSAR you will see an overwhelming amt of people applying to those vanity residencies i.e. (dermatology, plastics) and the other higher paying residencies (anesthesiology, surgery, cardio) etc... and leaving a huge amount of unfilled spots for family residencies.
Now rant over... that leads me to answer your question... If you want to go to the Caribbean.. I will say go for it, do it! because what is going to happen is that you will spend 2 years there, come back to the states ... do your clinicals for 2 years, then you will match in residency if you want to do primary care you will have a GREATER chance(being a Caribbean graduate) of matching because most students here don't want to do Family medicine <<< if a small percentage of the US students are ranking and trying to get into Family Medicine compared to the overwhelming amount of openings for Family Medicine, then there will be a greater number of available slots to fill for family medicine... therefore leaving the door wide open for IMG's>>>>> So there is your opening. Also the rate of matching for Caribbean students in the US has drastically increased over the last 2 years. See the data. This year was something like over 92%
But that wasn't really your question... your question was being that your verbal scores aren't that high, will you pass the USMLE because you heard the USMLE was similar to the MCAT. In actuality, maybe you will or you won't do that well on the USMLE, because the USMLE is different than the MCAT. You are tested on different concepts ... but, if you go on to medical school now in the Caribbean, you have 2 years of practicing and especially with all your school material you will have to read, you will have no choice but to improve your verbal and reading skills. Then in 2 years you take your step 1. If you don't pass it .. just take it again, But in the meanwhile, you should be preparing yourself with practice tests just like the MCAT so you don't have to keep taking it (which by the way hurts your chances of placement if you have to keep retaking the Step)
If you are having doubts about going to the Caribbean, I say always go with your first feeling. If you are having doubts don't do it. Instead, get some more practice material and continue studying the verbal sections and taking Verbal section practice tests until you score what you want. Enroll in a course that specializes in verbal like a reading course at a local community college or a speed reading course or an English as a second language course at a local community college while taking practice test for the MCAT verbal section then retake the MCAT again.
I hope you find clarity and are comfortable with the decision that is before you! Congratulations on being accepted to medical school, even if it is in the Caribbean, that is more than some people can say on here.
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Oh my.
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Didn't I hear on here a few times that the MCAT section with the highest correlation to USMLE performance was the verbal section? Anyone have that info?
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While it's true that Family Medicine, community IM, peds, and psych are less competitive and thus "easier" for a US-IMG to get matched, it's not a "greater" chance compared to a US-MD student. The US student does not need to apply to nearly the same amount of programs and aren't discouraged due to status.
I.e
US-MD
Applies to 30 FM programs. Can be anywhere they desire. Gets 20 interviews. Makes the choice to go to 12. Ranks 9.
US-IMG
Applies to 110 FM Programs. All programs are ones that will take IMG students. Gets 11 interviews. goes to all and ranks all no matter what(better to be matched than go unmatched....NOONE SHOULD EVER SOAP)
I.e
US-MD
Applies to 30 FM programs. Can be anywhere they desire. Gets 20 interviews. Makes the choice to go to 12. Ranks 9.
US-IMG
Applies to 110 FM Programs. All programs are ones that will take IMG students. Gets 11 interviews. goes to all and ranks all no matter what(better to be matched than go unmatched....NOONE SHOULD EVER SOAP)
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Lol. That's nice you believe it that way. I admit that I also tend to be carried away in my idealism and somehow back it up with whatever stats I can find.
Yup.
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A 9 is below average for MD. So quit harping that score like it means something. It doesn't.
Verbal reasoning is very important because what do you think you'll be doing once you become a physician? You read articles, treatment plans, charts, and synthesize information from all these sources in order to develop a treatment plan for your patients.
In fact, the one section that is most highly correlated with success in medical school and the USMLE is the verbal reasoning section.
Look, it's your life. Do with it what you want. Just don't bitch about it in 4-6 years when you fail out of the Carib or fail to match and watch your entire 580k savings disappear.
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Move on with life. You could go to Ross, but I would doubt that you would be able to pass the boards and that is a huge risk. Sure, your verbal might suck, but your other scores are not that great either. In college you can control the amount of courseload you can get. You only take three classes a semester so you don't get overwhelmed. That is not the case in Medical school. You get a whole lot of stuff a lot faster and you need to be able to read and comprehend that stuff quickly. I remember one person who had a 39 at Michigan state, but it turns out she was there for 5 years, only took 12 units, only the easiest science classes, and she got overwhelmed and dropped out the first semester because she couldn't hang with the amount. I just don't think it is for you or worth the risk.
Now, as to your original question (kind of) does MCAT score correlate to USMLE. Back in the day (Almost a decade ago) I correlated ever persons USMLE score to what their MCAT score was who posted on SDN. Sure, it was not a scientific study, but there was a amazing correlation. Only people who scored above a 35 on the MCAT got about a 250 on the boards. There was a sample size of about 60 and a lot more higher range (i.e. board scores about 220) who reported.
Now, as to your original question (kind of) does MCAT score correlate to USMLE. Back in the day (Almost a decade ago) I correlated ever persons USMLE score to what their MCAT score was who posted on SDN. Sure, it was not a scientific study, but there was a amazing correlation. Only people who scored above a 35 on the MCAT got about a 250 on the boards. There was a sample size of about 60 and a lot more higher range (i.e. board scores about 220) who reported.
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Moreover, if you feel that you may struggle with the English reading aspect of the USMLE beware that as an international graduate you have far less leeway with your score. A failing score on the USMLE can be very damaging to a IMG who is simply trying to match anywhere..or so I've been told.
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This is often repeated on these forums, but it's untrue. In a recent metaanalysis, "the biological sciences subtest had the only adjusted medium effect-size value on measures of medical school performance." Also, this paper used retrospective single school data that demonstrated the poor ability of the VR score to predict medical school performance in people who learned English after age 11 - a finding particular useful for the OP's situation.
But that's the academic side. For OP, or anyone, the Carib is a losing deal and getting worse every year. Don't let the Match statistics fool you. In fact, we can't even compare the Match results for this year and going forward to the ones from previous years because of the all-in policy. But make no mistake, things are going to get worse for Carib grads on average if we can't even match everyone that's graduating stateside. That NEJM article in post #3 is required reading for every single medical student who plans on a US residency.
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