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MCP Hahnemann vs. Temple

Discussion in 'Pre-Medical - MD' started by Redbeanmochi, Oct 25, 2002.

  1. Redbeanmochi

    Redbeanmochi Member
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    Hello!

    I was wondering which school is better (in terms of education, facilities, resources, and reputation with residency directors). MCP/Hahnemann (now called Drexel) or Temple (I'm thinking Temple...).

    I received an acceptance from Temple and was thinking about withdrawing my application from MCP/Hahnemann (who I have an interview with in a few weeks). MCP/Hahnemann's financial woes and their recent change in identity (now to Drexel) makes me wonder about the negative effect on its med students.

    Any feedback would be welcome!

    Thanks, SDNers!

    redbeanmochi:)
     
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  3. dpark74

    dpark74 Senior Member
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    Everyone I talked to outside MCP medschool has said that it's not a good school because of its financial instability. I talked to my cousin at UVA and my uncle who is a physician in Maryland and both have said that its reputation is tarnished.

    My 2 cents.
     
  4. chloe5

    chloe5 Senior Member
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    congrats
    go to temple!
     
  5. ny skindoc

    ny skindoc Senior Member
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    From the residency issue I dont see much difference in terms of national reputation between these schools,the quality of the match lists look very similar.I would suggest looking at other variables to choose between them.
     
  6. WISC-ite

    WISC-ite Senior Member
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    I think you should go to the Drexel interview. I currently am enrolled in the Drexel post-bacc program and the school has a lot to offer. The only people who discuss the school's financial woes are those that don't know anything about it. FYI, I heard a rumor the other day that Drexel is in a better financial than BOTH Temple and Penn.

    The positives of the merger with Drexel University are great and this will attract both more research money and more fame (if you are into that). In addition, the facilities at Drexel are far superior to that at Temple. Temple is also it a bad area of Philly. The beauty of Drexel is that the school is in the burbs of East Falls, but it has hospitals in the bad areas if that is you bend.

    Long story short. BOTH schools offer great educations, have good reputations, and will provide everything you need in an education. I WOULD STRONGLY RECOMMEND YOU GO AND LOOK AT BOTH SCHOOLS AND MAKE THE DECISION, IF YOU HAVE THAT OPPORTUNITY. MANY STUDENTS IN PHILADELPHIA HAVE A REALLY HARD TIME CHOOSING BETWEEN THE TWO.

    Best of luck and Cheers,
    WISC-ite
     
  7. WISC-ite

    WISC-ite Senior Member
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    Oh, sorry....welcome to SDN. Also, I know my above post is highly biased, but don't sell yourself short. In the long run, is the extra day of your life going to add up to that much when put in perspective with four LONG years of medical school.

    Congrats on the acceptance. If you do go to Temple, I have many friends who have already been accepted their and I know you will be in good company.

    Again, Cheers,
    WISC-ite
     
  8. drexel used to be mcp
    which used to be wcp- which was the women's college of pennsylvania- the first medical school for women.

    it has a long tradition of community health and liberal education.

    i think its cool.

    good luck , wexy
     
  9. misspiggy

    misspiggy Member
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    Hi people, I was just wondering how long it took for you to get an interview invite from the time you turned in your app was complete. If my apps were complete in mid october, then when's the earliest that I could hear from some of these schools? Thanks guys!
     
  10. Lara

    Lara Senior Member
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    As someone who had to decide between these two schools this year, I would definitely agree with WISC that you should go to the Drexel interview. Among other things, Temple and Drexel have very different forms of curricula (traditional vs. organ systems/modules) and Drexel offers a PIL track. You'll probably prefer the environment and school itself, so at least go see if that's enough to sway you. Also, the merger with Drexel can only improve things I think.

    That said, congrats! You can rest assured that while Temple's not perfect, it's an excellent school. :)
     
  11. phinicky

    phinicky Senior Member
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    I interviewed at MCP last year, and was very impressed by the facilities. Apparently, everything was renovated before the school went bankrupt a few years back. On the other hand, many of the students that I spoke with didn't seem happy with the school. Also, board passing rates were VERY low 2 years ago- but the school is trying to make efforts to improve that.

    From what I know, Temple doesn't have very good facilities. In fact, I think that they may be losing their library(???). But, the people that I know there (MS 4) and very happy, and are doing quite well with interviewing for residency programs.
     
  12. jackjinju

    jackjinju Senior Member
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    Hi,

    I'm a fourth-year at Drexel, and i would say that overall I've been quite happy here. I would definitely go to the interview. Having been through med school, I can say that it has been a good experience. The change to Drexel is definitely positive in my mind, and the "recent financial problems" happened almost 5 years ago! So there's really no impact in that regard.
    Between Drexel and Temple (which is a fine school by the way), you get zero advantage when applying for residency which is what I am doing right now. The match lists are virtually identical, and as I am applying for residency right now, I've gotten (literally) every interview that I've wanted. The big deal when you're going for residency, from what I can tell is that you went TO AN AMERICAN MD SCHOOL. That means A LOT!! Which one only seems to really matter if a) if it's a top top school or b) if it's near the residency program you're applying to (connections) or c) if you want to get into the same department for residency that you went to med school in.

    This stuff seems to make a big difference now, believe me it meant a lot to me too. However, in hindsight, it's much ado about nothing. Just go to as many interviews as you can, go to your state school if you can ($$$), and choose (if you have a choice) where you'd be happiest. That's all that really matters....TRUST ME!

    BTW- This year's Step I pass rate was 94% which is around the national mean. I think the low rates a few years ago were an abberation, as they had been around the national mean for years and years prior to that.

    Lastly, I would agree that those who say this school is financially unstable don't know anything about it, and are going on old info. Info which, by the time you graduate, will be around 9 years old. Secondly, it is in the most solid financial state of any school in town.


    Good luck.
     
  13. ussdfiant

    Physician Moderator Emeritus 10+ Year Member

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    What the hell are you talking about?
     
  14. jackjinju

    jackjinju Senior Member
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    Yeah, I never heard about that.....you see....on these boards you get a lot of unsubstantiated rumours. Been this way for years...my school went through that, particularly several years ago. Jeez! It was very frustrating.
     
  15. Lara

    Lara Senior Member
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    I thought Temple had plans to build a *new* library, not lose the old one altogether! ;)

    But yeah, the facilities aren't exactly fancy. No biggie, especially since those of my undergrad weren't either (despite it being a top Canadian university). And I've pretty much gotten "used" to North Philly by now, at least enough to be ok living here for the next four years.

    btw, I was told at Drexel that the PIL students were the ones who really had trouble with the boards (which *could* affect a future match list in comparison with Temple). However the school's been proactive in implementing measures to prevent that from happening again, so that's a good sign.
     
  16. cg1

    cg1 Senior Member
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    Redbeanmochi,

    Personally, I'd select Temple. Did you go to the MCP/H interview?

    MCP/H/Drexel has gone through more name changes than Roseanne in the past few years. :laugh: Financially, they're not as well off as Temple.

    "Name" isn't everything, but since it's on your list of priorities in choosing a school, then Temple has the better "name". (Other than Penn, Temple has the best name in Philadelphia.)

    Drexel has the better area, but their facilities or clinical experience provided to the students aren't as good as Temple's.

    I think you'd get an excellent education from either school. ;)
     
  17. Adcadet

    Adcadet Long way from Gate 27
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  18. Adcadet

    Adcadet Long way from Gate 27
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    This is the Temple free response

    Open Questions
    What do you like best about your school?

    * Temple University School of Medicine Available hospitals to rotate in
    * RAR program, which is designed to recruit and retain minority students.
    * Tremendous opportunities to get involved with community service through student organizations. Faculty is very dedicated towards preparing students for boards, while not killing them. The school fosters a non-competative environment.
    * The area is very urban.
    * Helpful facultyu in a low comptetative environment
    * Some excellent teachers Laid back student body
    * Friendly, 'down-to-earth' students
    * Its not very competitive. There are a few students who strive to be the top, but thats very few.
    * Very clinical
    * not too competitive, most professors and courses are well taught (although not all)
    * Good teaching
    * People are friendly, out-going, independent, and supportive. We are not a bunch of nerds like some med schools.
    * The diversity of the class and the helpfulness of the professors.
    * Diversity
    * excellent faculty
    * laid-back students opportunities for community service indigent hospital (plenty of hands-on learning)
    * What do I like best about my school? Every day that passes is one day closer to graduation. Expectations are low.

    What do you like least about your school?

    Temple University School of Medicine
    * Not always student friendly, rules too strict especially in certain circumstances. See below
    * The high price tuition.
    * the library
    * The library is very small
    * The area
    * Computer Lab Diminutive Library
    * The facilities are very poor-- especially the library
    * Location.
    * Hard to get answers to specific questions. constanlty get sent from one administrator to another.
    * school has no "campus" and is in a very bad neighborhood
    * Lack of library space, although they're building a new one
    * needs more room and nicer on-campus facilities, esp. study space
    * Location
    * location
    * location
    * facilities are "no frills"
    * The facilities are old and grungy. The school and hospital are located in an unpleasant area of town with no good coffee shops, restaurants, or parks to be found. Not everyone gets to stay at TUH--the clerkships are spread all over the state from Johnstown and Bethleham to suburban Philadelphia and Erie.

    Please share any other thoughts you may have about your school.

    Temple University School of Medicine
    * My father died during finals week, I took the exams and I was 1.5% away from passing, the teacher, Dr.Leonard Pakman, did not give me a break! heartless move. that really hurt.
    * It is a great place to be if you are interested in primary care, and not a snot.
    * Students and faculty are very friendly and accesible.
    * Temple Med is an institution where students come first. The curriculum is not designed to weed people out but rather to focus on clinically relevant matiriel.
    * Helpful teachers, an excellent chance to interact with inner city population and learn of their issues
    * Med school is hard and I glad that I am here with people that I enjoy being with and look forward to seeing ever day.
    * 3rd year sucks
    * not much class unity; a lot of cliques
     
  19. Adcadet

    Adcadet Long way from Gate 27
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    MCP/DREXEL free response questions Sorry I copy and pasted the wrong thing before


    Open Questions
    What do you like best about your school?

    * MCP Hahnemann SOM Allegheny Univ of Health Sci Opportunity to engage in case-based integrated learning in lieu of traditional didactic format.
    * The campus itself is the most beautiful of any others that I have visted. Very suburban, though center city is not far away. The system-based curriculum is fantastic.
    * The atmosphere at MCP Hahnemann is very relaxed compared to other schools. Also, we have a very racially diverse student body and a history of being attentive to the problem of sexism.
    * Integrated curriculum
    * Program for Integrated Learning Curriculum option (problem-based track) Also... strong women's health education
    * Faculty and administration make concerted effort to get to know students as individuals, addressing individual needs, serving as informal mentors, even socializing with students.
    * Problem based learning program
    * Great facilities Diversity of students Supportive learning environment
    * I don't know
    * The response of faculty to make changes based on stusent feedback.
    * Very encouraging of women in medicine. Lots of community service opportunities.
    * I like the noncompetitive atmosphere.
    * diversity in the student body
    * It's not too competitive, although those students are there in low numbers.
    * it's long history
    * PIL (case based curriculum)is the reason I chose this school and 4th year pathways. The pediatrics pathway director is extremely helpful.
    * The school is very diverse and flexible. They work with each student to ensure they are getting the most out of their medical education.
    * --friendly, cooperative classmates --professors LOVE to teach & will give you extra help if needed --VERY MINORITY/GAY FRIENDLY

    What do you like least about your school?

    MCP Hahnemann SOM Allegheny Univ of Health Sci
    * Ongoing change in clinical and basic science faculty, as well as facilities staff due to bankruptcy and re-organization last fall.
    * There are too many things to get invoved with. If you don't go to some activity you feel guilty (since everyone else who goes has to study just as much as you do).
    * The campus is lovely, as is the surrounding neighborhood. But there's no where to go out, really, that's close to campus: few restaurants, cafes, etc... within walking distance.
    * Computer facilities
    * The bankrupcty dessimated our faculty. Although many excellent faculty remain, much of the clinical faculty left to find secure jobs, leaving disgruntled, overworked, skeleton faculties at a number of former-Allegheny sites.
    * Nothing much really.
    * Not enough study space Not enough seating in the auditorium Too large of a class
    * There are still a few kinks that need to be worked out regarding the new curriculum.
    * Rotations in 3rd & 4th year are often out of the city. Some teaching was sporadic and poorly attended in 2nd year.
    * Our school recently went through some extremely difficult financial troubles. We are still recovering from that (i.e. still recruiting new faculty, redefining our relationship with our hospitals which are now not as strongly affiliated with our school, trying to get patients back into the hospitals, etc.)
    * lack of resources
    * It's a little disorganized.
    * that it's owned by a healthcare corporation
    * Paying for parking at Hahnemann.
    * Too much time in lectures at times.
    * --financial aid assistance is poor

    Please share any other thoughts you may have about your school.

    MCP Hahnemann SOM Allegheny Univ of Health Sci
    * Excellant location, great teaching facilities, lots of opportunity for volunteer work and extracurricular activity. I'm not in the traditional track, so the number I submitted is VERY rough.
    * Very open to people of all races, genders, and sexual orientations (and to married students like myself). Many professors represent various races, genders and orientations and serve as good role models for students.
    * Our school has had a difficult year due to the financial crisis that took place last year. Despite this, I'm getting a great education and I've learned that we have an administration and teaching staff that's really behind the students in every way. Also, we offer PBL, which is proving to be an excellent way of studying medicine for me.
    * Innovative curriculum. Supportive faculty.
    * Extremely supportive environment for all students from all walks of life
    * The PIL program was superb!!
    * It is a good school with alot of good people.
    * It was perfectly fine
    * Overall, I am glad I came to this school.
    * I would choose it again. Good woman's mentoring program.
    * I'm glad I chose MCP/Hahnemann SOM.
    * The bankruptcy has had a very negative effect in many ways and I feel betrayed almost to thepoint of wanting to sue for their witholding of information to applicants about the state of the school
    * I bet it will be a lot better in the future since we have new money from Tenet and Drexel.
    * it's on an upswing but there is still potential problems. a complete merger with Drexel will be a very positive step
    * When I struggled with academics I found the Dean of Student Affairs to be NOT helpful. I got the idea that the school did not care for individual students--just that the majority made it through. Also, in the same respect the Minority Affairs office brushed me off. I'm disappointed to say the least.
    * The school is now Drexel. Many applicants are still nervous about the schools reputation due to the past few years of instability. As a student that has lived through this, the school is better for what has happened. They are not only stable but the curriculum and 3rd and 4th years have been re-invented in a positive way.
    * --IFM (traditional curriculum) prepares you better for the boards than the PIL (problem-based curriculum) --school seems very stable despite its chaotic financial history (they have sheltered the students well from those issues)
     
  20. Redbeanmochi

    Redbeanmochi Member
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    thanks for the responses everyone! :)

    cg1, no, i did not end up going to the drexel interview. i was impressed with the clinical training at temple (esp. the children's hospital, and decided to send in my deposit and cancel the drexel interview).

    i interviewed at jeff back in november, and i may have to start another philly med school thread if i hear positive news from them: jeff vs. temple. it would be a great x-mas present to hear back from a few rolling admissions schools...

    -r
     
  21. Lara

    Lara Senior Member
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    Yeah, I was definitely sold with the Children's hospital. :) Just be aware that there isn't a peds residency program here unfortunately.

    Hope to see you here next year! You're lucky, they'll have two year's worth of results with the "new" curriculum by then.
     
  22. tufts02

    tufts02 Member
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    so at this point in the process i am in at both temple and drexel and although im waiting for decisions elsewhere i'm also just trying to figure out which one i'd choose betweeen the two.

    i was definitely impressed with drexel and if it were not for its supposed poor rep and board score issues i'd have no problem w/ this decision. when i interviewed there my interviewer assured me that the board score and curricular problems were an aberration of that class a couple years ago and since there has been no problems w/ students in either program. in fact they said that the PIL program students do better b/c they get more time to study for the boards b/c of the way the curriculum is set up.

    as far as temple goes, the facilities definitely seemed lacking but the students seemed to like the school a lot.

    tough decision...hopefully i wont have to choose :)
     
  23. ScreamingTreesRule

    ScreamingTreesRule Senior Member
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    tufts02,
    Good luck with your decision.

    Actually, I thought they had great facilities when I visited at Temple. The library could've been larger (but it's not like it was filled to capacity with students..so I wouldn't worry about that). Plus, they are in the process of building a brand new one.

    Temple students perform above the national average on the Boards. I think Drexel's excuse of having a new curric doesn't explain why they did worse for so many years. :(
     
  24. Nirvana

    Nirvana Senior Member
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    I'd go with the school that has the better reputation (Temple).


    "My father died during finals week, I took the exams and I was 1.5% away from passing, the teacher, Dr.Leonard Pakman, did not give me a break! heartless move. that really hurt."

    Ouch! After reading that, If I decided to go to Temple, I'd stay clear of that guy! :eek:

    Maybe Dr. Pakman is just bitter because he's named after a lame videogame? :laugh:
     
  25. ShortStuff

    ShortStuff a trueblue spitfire
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    Can we throw Jefferson in to the mix of philly schools. I will interview at Temple and have been accepted to Jefferson so I was wondering how people thought they compared??
     
  26. Cory

    Cory Senior Monkey Member
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    yeah, i'd like to hear what people think of Jefferson also. I have an acceptance there, and I got on the waitlist at Temple (out of stater), so I'm curious what you all think of them and Drexel as well.
     
  27. Redbeanmochi

    Redbeanmochi Member
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    that would be a good idea, since i just got into jeff also and need to make a decision regarding the two (temple and jeff).

    regarding location, i would say that jeff has the best location; center city, near bars/great restaurants/the cute historical district/movie theaters, etc. clinically, i heard jeff and temple are equally strong. the facilities at jeff were much more impressive to me than the ones at temple. about the curriculum...i'm going to have to do some research to dig up more info.

    -r
     
  28. Lara

    Lara Senior Member
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    Jefferson gives percentage grades on transcripts and this is ABSOLUTELY something to take into consideration as it'll add substantially to the pressure. It's almost impossible to appreciate just how much till you're in med school.

    But yes, the location's very nice and run, don't walk if you have any thoughts about going into dermatology. :)
     
  29. DW

    DW Fix me some sandwiches
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    i thought jefferson (at least as my foggy memory from the interview day tells me) that they recently switched to honors, pass, low pass, fail :confused:
     
  30. DW

    DW Fix me some sandwiches
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    taken from jefferson's online student handbook :

    1. Grading System
    a. Courses in the Basic Medical Sciences
    Most courses in the basic medical sciences are given numerical grades with the passing grade established at
    70. Beginning with the incoming class of 2006, courses will be evaluated on an Honors, Pass, Fail basis.
    Honors will be given for final averages of 90% or greater.
     
  31. Cory

    Cory Senior Monkey Member
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    does anyone know, or can anyone find out what a daily class schedule is like for jefferson? i can't find anything on how many hours students spend in class a week.
    thanks!
     
  32. Peaches

    Peaches Junior Member

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    Choice is really a beautiful thing. I agree that you should proceed with the interview, keeping all your options open. In others words don't burn any bridges. Then decide which choice is best for you. If it truly becomes a toss up , I would consider such factors as the cost , the area, and which school has the "it" for you. It may come down to your gut feeling. I went to Temple undergrad, and am now at temple for premed post-bach.

    I was recently impressed with Jefferson on the patient side of things. A relative of mine had a portion of his thumb cut off by a circular saw. I was the first to arrive at the another phila. hospital with him, another relative went to retrieve the thumb. It was like a scene from ER when he brought the thumb in on ice. We left to go to jefferson for care. (Due to malpractice this hosp. did not have an orth. surg.) At Jefferson the chief hand /surgeon administered care, while a Jefferson med student first year was shadowing him. I was able to watch as well. The difference in medical care , and level of expertise was amazing.

    Good Luck. And Congrats for making it thus far.

    `
    ;)
     
  33. Lady MD

    Lady MD Member
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    I'd agree.

    And when considering Temple versus Jefferson, since that was brought up, I'd say that it's close.

    A plus for Temple:
    Both schools have great reputations, but Temple is considered the better school and has the better reputation nationwide (and definitely in Philadelphia).

    A plus for Jefferson:
    As far as medical schools go, Temple has the better clinical experience, but Jefferson is ranked by U.S. News and is also closer to downtown.

    Both schools are excellent and you really can't go wrong with either one. :cool:
     
  34. johnstoner

    johnstoner Ben Franklin on Hashish
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    jefferson is better i think b/c temple area is really ghetto...i think from a social stand point, people would be much happier at jefferson given that its around center city.

    location is just as important
     
  35. CatsAreKillers

    CatsAreKillers Senior Member
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    The medical campus isn't as "ghetto" as the main campus for undergrads.

    Anyways, men shouldn't be "afraid" of the campus (unless they're wimpy) since Temple probably has roughly the same percentage of females as other med schools do. So if the females aren't timid about being there, I'm sure the male students can take it. ;)
     
  36. DW

    DW Fix me some sandwiches
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    and this is alll based on what?
     
  37. Nirvana

    Nirvana Senior Member
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    How's it going, DW?

    Pretty much when a poster asks "Which school is better? A or B?", they are asking for opinions.

    These replies are, for the most part, based on, yes, you guessed it:

    Opinions. ;)


    BTW, I would concur about Temple's rep. I'm from Phila and Temple def has the better reputation. That's not to say that JEFF or Drexel don't have good reps either. :cool:
     
  38. DW

    DW Fix me some sandwiches
    Moderator Emeritus 10+ Year Member

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    well enough nirvana

    i would just like this thread to kind of have some remote factual basis, along with people posting invalidated stuff about a school's grading system or "which school is better respected in the area". as a born and raised south philadelphian, i actually dont entirely agree with the statement "temple is definitely more respected than jefferson". and thats just my "opinion" (and least i have usnews to back that up :rolleyes: )

    see how silly this all sounds :p
     
  39. INeedAdvice

    INeedAdvice Senior Member
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    It should be the law that everything that we read on this board be based on scientific fact and theories that are derived from scholars and researchers of both academic and corporate worlds.









    I think it's possible to take this stuff a little too seriously. :p
     
  40. Lara

    Lara Senior Member
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    Oh, geez - I'm really sorry for posting outdated information. :( All I'd heard was that Jeff had percentage grades, and I'm surprised no one's ever said otherwise since the change began with my year. Surely some Temple students interviewed there after all!

    Actually I'd say that P/F/H with H being 90% rather than a specified fraction of the class is preferable to Temple's P/F/HP/H system. Very good move on their part to change and I'd expect the students to be much happier and relaxed than before.
     

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