MD and PsyD

[the_fella]

I have seen a couple of practitioners who have both an MD and a PsyD. Sorry if this is a stupid question, but why would someone do that? Wouldn't it make more sense just to become a psychiatrist?

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[Spydra]

Hmmm that does seem unusual. I don't see why you can't strike up a conversation with these practitioners and ask what made them decide to do both. Whenever I meet someone with multiple graduate degrees I inquire and sometimes the responses are very interesting. I haven't met anyone with those 2 degrees though.

 

[WisNeuro]

I've never seen an MD/PsyD. I have seen a lot of MD/PhD in Neuroscience/Neurology for MD's who are heavily involved in research.

 

[OneNeuroDoctor]

A number of psychologist returned to get the MD. Apparently it is easier to gain admissions to MD than PhD/PsyD clinical Psychology programs.

Eventually psychologist will be physicians and trained in medical schools when we are all prescribing psychologist.

 

[WisNeuro]

The vast majority of MD/PhD's I know got the degrees through a joint program, not going back to school.

 

[the_fella]

When I said "seen" I didn't mean as a patient. I'd just seen them listed in professional directories.

 

[WisNeuro]

We know, none of the responses made me think anyone assumed it was a patient.

 

[PsychBoxe]

I know someone who practiced as an MD for years and pursued a PsyD as a career change.

 

[the_fella]

We know, none of the responses made me think anyone assumed it was a patient.

Well when someone said I should have asked them, that's what I thought they meant.

 

[AcronymAllergy]

A number of psychologist returned to get the MD. Apparently it is easier to gain admissions to MD than PhD/PsyD clinical Psychology programs.

Eventually psychologist will be physicians and trained in medical schools when we are all prescribing psychologist.

My take is that it's two fairly disparate training models, and I don't necessarily see them coinciding anytime soon. This ultimate conclusion of a single training path is one of the criticisms against prescribing privileges.

 

[Spydra]

Well when someone said I should have asked them, that's what I thought they meant.

I didn't mean seen as in this was your patient, I figured you meant you saw them in a professional setting like at your work, a hospital you interviewed, a conference, etc.

 

[nitemagi]

MD psychiatrists who complete psychoanalytic training can finish with a PsyD.

 

[AcronymAllergy]

MD psychiatrists who complete psychoanalytic training can finish with a PsyD.

Hmm, this is the first I've heard of the route, and it doesn't inherently make sense to me unless the psychoanalytic training is the equivalent of a doctoral program.

 

[WisNeuro]

Yeah, I've never seen it either. Granted, I've never worked on the East coast or California, so maybe it's a regional thing where the last vestiges of psychoanalysis reside.

 

[nitemagi]

For example:

http://www.laisps.org/psyd-in-psychoanalysis.html
http://www.pincsf.org/training/psy-d-program/
http://www.n-c-p.org/training-analysis-course.asp

 

[AcronymAllergy]

Doesn't look like any of those degrees are accredited by the APA, unsurprisingly. So yep, they're offered, but they really may not mean much of anything (other than, unfortunately, to further water down the reputation of the Psy.D. as a whole).

 

[WisNeuro]

Yep, on the coast. I still have a problem understanding the MD fascination with psychoanalysis in a field that is supposedly trying to push evidence based medicine and best practices.

 

[nitemagi]

Psychiatrists don't need to do APA internships.

More commonly I see MFT/MSWs getting these degrees, rather than MDs. Make your own conclusions about that.

 

[AcronymAllergy]

Psychiatrists don't need to do APA internships.

More commonly I see MFT/MSWs getting these degrees, rather than MDs. Make your own conclusions about that.

Oh, I wasn't implying that the lack of APA accreditation of the programs is going to significantly affect those obtaining the degree, at least when it comes to physicians. Rather, it just seems like a shameful money-grab of sorts by the programs. Add in a few classes, say the person qualifies for an ego-boosting "doctorate," and call it a day.

It could have significant repercussions for the MFTs/MSWs, though, given that the odds of them subsequently qualifying for licensure as a psychologist are probably pretty slim. But if all they want to do is seemingly boost their credentials with prospective clients, that probably won't matter too much to them, either.

 

[the_fella]

I was under the impression that psychoanalysis is now generally regarded as BS. Has there been a resurgence I'm not aware of?

 

[smalltownpsych]

I was under the impression that psychoanalysis is now generally regarded as BS. Has there been a resurgence I'm not aware of?

If you mean old school Freudian, yes. Psychodynamic psychotherapy is alive and well. I just went to a weekend conference about evidenced based psychodynamic treatment.

 

[WisNeuro]

If you mean old school Freudian, yes. Psychodynamic psychotherapy is alive and well. I just went to a weekend conference about evidenced based psychodynamic treatment.

Psychoanalysis and psychodynamic treatments are vastly different. I would consider analytic to be old school Freudian. Dynamic is far removed from that. Yes, psychodynamic has some protocols which are EBT compatible. Psychoanalysis, not so much.

 

[the_fella]

Yea, I was referring to Freudian psychoanalysis. My experience with it is limited, but I wasn't aware of the term psychoanalysis referring to anything but that.

 

[W19]

A number of psychologist returned to get the MD. Apparently it is easier to gain admissions to MD than PhD/PsyD clinical Psychology programs.

Eventually psychologist will be physicians and trained in medical schools when we are all prescribing psychologist.

Are you sure about that?

 

[WisNeuro]

It's probably similar, at least for reputable programs. Acceptance rates at good clinical PhD programs are about 2-5%.

 

[W19]

It's probably similar, at least for reputable programs. Acceptance rates at good clinical PhD programs are about 2-5%.

I don't know if we can compare the two programs since they have different requirements... Also, acceptance rate is not a good metrics to compare how difficult is it to get into a program... As far as I know, people don't even use the word 'reputable' regarding US med school. While it is extremely more difficult to get into program like Harvard, WashU etc..., their curricula are not different from Howard, Meharry etc.... Medical school curriculum in the US is standardized.

 

[AcronymAllergy]

I don't know if we can compare the two programs since they have different requirements... Also, acceptance rate is not a good metrics to compare how difficult is it to into a program... As far as I know, people don't even use the word 'reputable' when it comes to med school.

In the end, it probably depends on how you define "difficult," and yes, it's ultimately likely to be a futile exercise to compare the two. If I were to say anything, it'd be that the difficulty of getting into a funded psych doctoral program is comparable to that of med school; the admission rates are typically lower, but there are also perhaps a larger proportion of under-qualified/non-competitive applicants given the large number of undergrads who major in psychology.

And yes, the medical school world has done a much better job of regulating the quality of its programs than has psychology/the APA.

 

[W19]

In the end, it probably depends on how you define "difficult," and yes, it's ultimately likely to be a futile exercise to compare the two. If I were to say anything, it'd be that the difficulty of getting into a funded psych doctoral program is comparable to that of med school; the admission rates are typically lower, but there are also perhaps a larger proportion of under-qualified/non-competitive applicants given the large number of undergrads who major in psychology.

And yes, the medical school world has done a much better job of regulating the quality of its programs than has psychology/the APA.

I agree with you... and I have seen people do that all the time in SDN. I just don't understand how people can arrive at such conclusion...

 

[WisNeuro]

They are different metrics, but there is no demonstrable difference in level of acumen between professions. Every study has shown equivalence. They are just different skill sets.