MD degree for DO to practice outside of U.S?

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apellous

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Hello,

Need some help. I remember a past thread about this topic. There was a place that would grant MD degrees to DOs who want to work abroad.


Thanks in advance

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drdrtoledo said:

so let me get this straight....during 4th year of medical school (DO) you can sign up and take this "online course" for 12 months and then receive your MD (from UHSA) along with the DO from your osteopathic school? Sounds kind of weird....is this degree even recognized by the AMSA or the LGMCE (or whichever instituion grants the Medical Degree)? For some reason it just doesn't sound real and it seems more like a way to get your money..... :confused: any thoughts?
 
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Dr. Don said:
so let me get this straight....during 4th year of medical school (DO) you can sign up and take this "online course" for 12 months and then receive your MD (from UHSA) along with the DO from your osteopathic school? Sounds kind of weird....is this degree even recognized by the AMSA or the LGMCE (or whichever instituion grants the Medical Degree)? For some reason it just doesn't sound real and it seems more like a way to get your money..... :confused: any thoughts?

UHSA isn't recognized by California, so it's questionable. I guess DO's who want/need an MD degree to practice OUTSIDE the US might think that spending the bucks there is a good deal, but the won't be able to practice with that license in some places in the US. http://www.medbd.ca.gov/Unapproved_Med_Schools.htm

BTW, none of the off-shore schools are recognized by LCME. Some states (like California and Texas) have stringent requirements of their own for recognizing medical education, far above the requirements of ECFMG, the group that gets FMG's recognized in the US. California, for example, requires a site visit (that the school pays for), where they review the facilities, curriculum, student admission standards, etc. It's not at all a slam-dunk. And because California is so tough, several other states (New Mexico, for one) specifically say "whatever California approves is what we approve".

California is very strict, they have permanently disqualified some schools, and anyone who completes any of their medical training at a non-approved school (and doesn't repeat it elsewhere) won't be licensed in California, no matter what. No loopholes like if you've been licensed in another state for 30 years or anything like that.

The big-three Caribbean schools (SGU, Ross, AUC) are all approved by California, and Saba just had their site visit, the medical board will discuss the report at their November 2004 meeting.
 
Dr. Don said:
so let me get this straight....during 4th year of medical school (DO) you can sign up and take this "online course" for 12 months and then receive your MD (from UHSA) along with the DO from your osteopathic school? Sounds kind of weird....is this degree even recognized by the AMSA or the LGMCE (or whichever instituion grants the Medical Degree)? For some reason it just doesn't sound real and it seems more like a way to get your money..... :confused: any thoughts?

For what it's worth, UHSA is on the WHO directory of medical schools. I would only find this program useful if you are a foreign national and you want to return to your home country to practice medicine. It is very hard for Americans (or any foreigner for that matter) to obtain work visas as physicians in "desirable" countries. This is true whether you are a MD or a DO. If your interest is mission work, then the countries who need you don't really care, and you usually work under the collective license of a charitable organization.

To the OP, what is your ultimate desire? Are you American, or if not, do you wish to return to your home country?
 
flighterdoc said:
I guess DO's who want/need an MD degree to practice OUTSIDE the US might think that spending the bucks there is a good deal, but they won't be able to practice with that license in some places in the US. http://www.medbd.ca.gov/Unapproved_Med_Schools.htm
They'd still be able to practice anywhere in the US cause they'd still have their DO. ;)
 
wanna. I was asking b/c an attending was wondering. He wants to retire(but still work) and he has been looking into panama, costa rico,etc. I knew I had seen something about it here in a thread and I told him I would find it. Thanks everybody.


Also I think It would be better if I was in another county to have the MD(or whatever they have it that county). It would make things much easier. It is like many of the FMGs have M.B. or whatever degree that use. To me it does not matter that much it would just be easier to fit in and have to try to explain things. Would even be harder with a language and culture barrier. Please dont through me to much $hit like you should be proud of being a DO and all that mess, b/c I am and that is not what I am saying. It is just when in Rome.....you know.


Apellous
 
Buster Douglas said:
They'd still be able to practice anywhere in the US cause they'd still have their DO. ;)


Which is why I said they couldn't practice with the MD.
 
drdrtoledo, that was an awesome link.

I'm really suprised about Norway. Most Scan. countries tend to be progressive and since they are notorious for balking at EU policies, have a shortage of rural docs, and an immigrant influx to fill a glut of their jobs... I'm... surprised.

Anyway, almost every country in the EU will give preference to a) a native and b)an EU member. Unless you can convince them that you will do rural med. and know someone.

France makes almost everything difficult... even for the French policy makers - no surprise there.

I've heard that Ireland and Australia have agressively solicited for health professionals(so I'm suprised w/ the Irish sit. as well). In fact, I heard that antibiotics are OTC in parts of Australia where there is very little access to medical intervention.

That is my 0.02$
 
flighterdoc said:
Which is why I said they couldn't practice with the MD.

They could,however, use the MD initials in addition to their DO initials outside Texas and California. In other words, this program gives the DO the opportunity to write an DO-MD in their title. It's just that you lose respectability when both MD's and DO's find out that your MD was granted though a one year on-line program through Antigua. Think that won't get one a bad rep.
 
gioia said:
In fact, I heard that antibiotics are OTC in parts of Australia where there is very little access to medical intervention.

FYI

Only in very remote communities in Australia would antibiotics be available over the counter.

Most isolated stations, missions, minesites, etc pack a comprehensive medical kit that includes antibiotics. They're pretty much linked to the Royal Flying Doctor Service (RFDS) by radio and aeroplane, and can call in for instructions on how to use their medical equipment if needs be.

Some of our Indigenous communities suffer health and health care standards on par with the poorest parts of Asia and Africa. Many lack basic public health infrastructure.
 
coreyw said:
FYI

Only in very remote communities in Australia would antibiotics be available over the counter.

Most isolated stations, missions, minesites, etc pack a comprehensive medical kit that includes antibiotics. They're pretty much linked to the Royal Flying Doctor Service (RFDS) by radio and aeroplane, and can call in for instructions on how to use their medical equipment if needs be.

Some of our Indigenous communities suffer health and health care standards on par with the poorest parts of Asia and Africa. Many lack basic public health infrastructure.

Thanks COREYW,

May I ask you a question? Didn't literature appear, say 5 years ago, highlighting the increase of antibiotic resistance in Australia (due to OTC self-treatment)? I'm only curious, not accusatory, and the area mentioned was outside of Sidney... The article was comparing US over-administration of antibiotics in peds with similar probs. in the Western World.
 
gioia said:
Thanks COREYW,

May I ask you a question? Didn't literature appear, say 5 years ago, highlighting the increase of antibiotic resistance in Australia (due to OTC self-treatment)? I'm only curious, not accusatory, and the area mentioned was outside of Sidney... The article was comparing US over-administration of antibiotics in peds with similar probs. in the Western World.

Hi Gioia,

Good question. I'm not familiar with the study you allude to, but others I've seen show that antibiotic resistance is generally on the rise in Australia, just as everywhere else. Australian medicos' use of antibiotics (esp. broad spectrum) was much higher than the US and Canada, and much much higher than the UK in the late 90's. It's now started to plateau, but my sense (and I'm not a physician) is that GPs especially still tend to over-prescribe for minor self-limiting ailments of viral/bacterial aetiology, and many still don't educate their patients in the propert use of antibiotics, which may be part of the cause of growing resistance.

It's very difficult to self-prescribe antibiotics in most parts of Australia.

A 1999 government-appointed joint committee found that resistance was on the up for two main reasons: 1) over-prescription and 2) transfer of resistance from non-humans to humans (fully two-thirds of the mass of antibiotics used in Australia are used by the livestock industries). http://www.health.gov.au/pubhlth/strateg/jetacar/present2.htm

A 1997 study found that:

"Antibiotic use in Australia remained steady between 1990 and 1995, with an estimated 24.7 DDDs/1000 population/day dispensed through community pharmacies in 1990 and 24.8 DDDs/1000 population/day in 1995. Amoxycillin, although declining in use, remained the most dispensed antibiotic. Compared with the other countries surveyed, Australia had the highest percentage use of tetracyclines, such as doxycycline, and the lowest percentage use of fluoroquinolones. Use of trimethoprim-sulfamethoxazole and flucloxacillin declined in Australia. In new cases of upper respiratory tract infection or pharyngitis, an antibiotic prescription was recorded for 57% of urban patient encounters and 73% of rural patient encounters.

"Antibiotic use in Australia is high, as in many other developed countries, but did not increase between 1990 and 1995. The overall profile of antibiotic use in Australia by drug class was similar to that in the United Kingdom. Antibiotics were still commonly prescribed for upper respiratory tract infection (which is usually viral), more commonly by rural than by urban general practitioners."
http://www.mja.com.au/public/issues/aug4/mcmanus/mcmanus.html

To their credit, the Royal Colleges and government health departments have apparently put quite a bit of effort into trying to spread the word on appropriate and judicious antibiotic use.

Word on the use of manual therapeutics and other complementary therapies for the treatment of URT and ENT infections has not spread however. Use of botanic medicine (esp echinacea) and nutritional supplements (esp. Vit.C and Zn) also appears to have risen, but there is precious little discussion, let alone collaboration between the 'natural medicine' and allopathic fields. Incidentally, there appears to have been a rise in the use of vaccinations for influenza, especially amongst the elderly, but the drug companies targeting anyone who 'can't afford to get sick.' (My parents - in their seventies and eighties - are this boat, and I'm very grateful for the flu jabs for their sakes!!!)

We're in the middle of our flu season here. I'm fending off a bug right now that's got a lot of folks laid up. Most of my peers (professionals) aren't running off to their GP, but are trying to take it easier, taking Echinacea and the usual plethora of cough lozenges and syrups, and painkillers. So, there's progress for you, but they are the more educated types.

Over-use or inappropriate use of antibiotics is a real bug-bear of mine :)
 
Thanks for the info. CoreyW, the links are great.

Over-use or inappropriate use of antibiotics is a real bug-bear of mine
Mine too!

A 1999 government-appointed joint committee found that resistance was on the up for two main reasons: 1) over-prescription and 2) transfer of resistance from non-humans to humans (fully two-thirds of the mass of antibiotics used in Australia are used by the livestock industries).

That's interesting. From what I know, the USDA denies that antibiotics delivered to cattle for milk production has any adverse effect or potential for antibiotic resistance among humans. In the past year, 'organic' milk companies have been required (by the USDA) to include a disclaimer that there is NO STATISTICAL DIFFERENCE between organic milk (that uses no hormones) and traditional milk. Hmmm....

:luck:
 
gioia said:
Thanks for the info. CoreyW, the links are great.

Mine too!



That's interesting. From what I know, the USDA denies that antibiotics delivered to cattle for milk production has any adverse effect or potential for antibiotic resistance among humans. In the past year, 'organic' milk companies have been required (by the USDA) to include a disclaimer that there is NO STATISTICAL DIFFERENCE between organic milk (that uses no hormones) and traditional milk. Hmmm....

:luck:


That is interesting. Check out these links Gioia

http://www.pmac.net/AM/again.html
http://www.abc.net.au/science/slab/antibiotics/agriculture.htm (nice little site from the Australian Broadcasting Corporation's science section)

And even McDonalds make mention of the threat posed by over-use in animal production! www.mcdonalds.com/corp/values/ socialrespons/market/antibiotics.html

Anyway, this afternoon as i was coming home from Melbourne Airport I noticed a bloody great sign over the Tullamarine Freeway with the words:

"Common colds need common sense... they don't need antibiotics"

This was sponsored by the Pharmaceutical Benefits Scheme, a federal government initiative... they're really trying to save taxpayer dollars it seems.
 
Hey, Thanks Corey, I'm on it! :)
 
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