MD/MBA- feeling conflicted

[guannaberry]

Sup guys,

I am currently accepted to the 4 year MD/MBA at Tufts, which does the business portion at Brandeis/Heller (unranked MBA). I am waitlisted at UCI, USC, and interviewed at UCLA but did not hear back yet. However, the Tufts program requires me to register by June 15, so I have to drop all waitlists at that time. Also, I got no financial aid from Tufts, I'll have to pay 110k/year for tuition and other costs basically, in loans.

Today I took the GMAT (for MBA portion) and got a 770.

I can't see myself going to Tufts because of the insane cost and loans that I will not be able to pay off until I'm well in my 40s, and because of the Brandeis' unranked MBA, which makes me feel like I wasted my GMAT score. Does anyone have any suggestions to what I could do at this point? Keep in mind that I have to drop all waitlists mid June.

Thanks!

Edit: Took out the part about HBS, it was confusing. I am more interested in which school to target right now to do my MD/MBA and how to get off waitlists etc.

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[Agnieszka020]

Yes, 770 is a great score, but like in med school admissions it's not all that matters in MBA admissions. Do you have enough professional business experience to be competitive for the top 10 business schools?

 

[guannaberry]

whoa..I think I remember seeing you back in georgetown forums. I started programs at the hospital of my undergrad, and I ran organizations on campus. I am still a senior, and the past 4 years have been devoted to things like research so no business experience. However, at the same time, most of the Md/MBA programs I have contacted tell me that I do not need business experience (not sure how much of this is actually true).

 

[guannaberry]

Yes, 770 is a great score, but like in med school admissions it's not all that matters in MBA admissions. Do you have enough professional business experience to be competitive for the top 10 business schools?

sry, did not quote you but i replied

 

[Agnieszka020]

whoa..I think I remember seeing you back in georgetown forums. I started programs at the hospital of my undergrad, and I ran organizations on campus. I am still a senior, and the past 4 years have been devoted to things like research so no business experience. However, at the same time, most of the Md/MBA programs I have contacted tell me that I do not need business experience (not sure how much of this is actually true).

What does Georgetown have to do with anything?
All I'm saying is that I don't know anyone who did their MBA in top tier school without having a serious professional background. I know people get into the non-ranked programs but name really matters when it comes to business school (I did my MBA at a not so great school and it didn't turn out to be worth much in the end. My husband did it in a great school and was able to jumpstart his career. Of course in addition to a great gmat score he had close to five years of business experience and so did most of his classmates)

 

[guannaberry]

What does Georgetown have to do with anything?
All I'm saying is that I don't know anyone who did their MBA in top tier school without having a serious professional background. I know people get into the non-ranked programs but name really matters when it comes to business school (I did my MBA at a not so great school and it didn't turn out to be worth much in the end. My husband did it in a great school and was able to jumpstart his career. Of course in addition to a great gmat score he had close to five years of business experience and so did most of his classmates)

I plan on having it for hospital administration later on down the line, and you never know, yours might come in handy someday. If you saw my question above, you woulda seen that I did not consider top 10 schools anyways. I want to do my MBA where i do my MD. I was just conflicted as to what I shoul ddo with about a month left to get off waitlists.

 

[ChemEngMD]

I plan on having it for hospital administration later on down the line, and you never know, yours might come in handy someday. If you saw my question above, you woulda seen that I did not consider top 10 schools anyways. I want to do my MBA where i do my MD. I was just conflicted as to what I shoul ddo with about a month left to get off waitlists.

You mentioned HBS. A 770 is a good enough score for HBS or Wharton or Booth, but in order to get into top programs you need at least a couple of years of professional development. From what I've seen with friends at top schools you could do it in two, but you'd have to really climb during those two years, not talking one promotion, more like 5. A couple I've known have taken 3-5 years.

The point is that your 770 isn't a waste. You could always enroll at Tufts as a regular MD student and use that 770 to apply to HBS for a break between 3rd and 4th year? Or you could ditch the whole medical school thing, go get a job in pharmaceuticals, bust your butt for a couple years and apply to a top business school then and have a shot.

I agree though - Tufts' cost is absurd.

 

[darkjedi]

The Brandeis MBA degree is absolutely not worth it. Being an MD/future MD gives you some bonus points as far as 'professional development' goes. It's no guarantee, but I think it is worth holding out for a top tier MBA. non-brand name MBAs are limited added value, and Brandeis' program is unproven.

 

[OrgasmicChemistry]

Here are a couple thoughts:

First, with a 770 and no work experience you still don't have a chance at HBS without SIGNIFICANT otherworldly leadership experiences in undergrad (think starting a non-profit and growing it to a national organization or starting a profitable hedge fund rather than being VP of your fraternity... believe it or not, some pple actually do this in undergrad). When I was looking into it I think HBS let in ONE student straight from college for a class of ~1000. So it doesn't really matter what your score was, you basically don't have a shot there.

Second, MBAs generally are worth about the same everywhere unless you're at a top 6 program (HBS, Wharton, Stanford, Booth, Sloan, Kellogg), or a school that has specific connections to a specific field you want to get into (Yale to IB outside of wall street or something).

Third, the main benefit of a top programs is that they'll provide greater opportunities to you outside of medicine (i.e., in biotech/pharma/VC, rather than hospital administration). If what you want to do is hospital admin, I can't imagine that it significantly matters where you go. However, you would get a more customized (if less broad) education at the Tufts program, where you graduate with an MBA with a specialization in Healthcare Management or something.

Fourth, consider the opportunity cost of taking an extra year for the 5-year program.

So, are you wasting your score by going to Tufts? Well, it seems like it aligns with your goals of hospital admin, and you won't get into HBS, so don't worry about that. Most important, the medical school actually accepted you, so it's your best bet so far. I'd call the other schools and try to get a decision from them around May 15.

 

[pawpal]

Having worked for one of the Big Four, I wouldn't expect you to get into any highly ranked MBA programs without any business experience. Friends of mine had trouble after several years at a very reputable firm and good GMAT scores.

 

[guannaberry]

Here are a couple thoughts:

First, with a 770 and no work experience you still don't have a chance at HBS without SIGNIFICANT otherworldly leadership experiences in undergrad (think starting a non-profit and growing it to a national organization or starting a profitable hedge fund rather than being VP of your fraternity... believe it or not, some pple actually do this in undergrad). When I was looking into it I think HBS let in ONE student straight from college for a class of ~1000. So it doesn't really matter what your score was, you basically don't have a shot there.

Second, MBAs generally are worth about the same everywhere unless you're at a top 6 program (HBS, Wharton, Stanford, Booth, Sloan, Kellogg), or a school that has specific connections to a specific field you want to get into (Yale to IB outside of wall street or something).

Third, the main benefit of a top programs is that they'll provide greater opportunities to you outside of medicine (i.e., in biotech/pharma/VC, rather than hospital administration). If what you want to do is hospital admin, I can't imagine that it significantly matters where you go. However, you would get a more customized (if less broad) education at the Tufts program, where you graduate with an MBA with a specialization in Healthcare Management or something.

Fourth, consider the opportunity cost of taking an extra year for the 5-year program.

So, are you wasting your score by going to Tufts? Well, it seems like it aligns with your goals of hospital admin, and you won't get into HBS, so don't worry about that. Most important, the medical school actually accepted you, so it's your best bet so far. I'd call the other schools and try to get a decision from them around May 15.

really like your response, I think you actually understood my question. thanks

 

[guannaberry]

The Brandeis MBA degree is absolutely not worth it. Being an MD/future MD gives you some bonus points as far as 'professional development' goes. It's no guarantee, but I think it is worth holding out for a top tier MBA. non-brand name MBAs are limited added value, and Brandeis' program is unproven.

yeah but I can't back out of it if I go to Tufts. They say they'll put me on waitlist if i drop the degree LOL. So does where you get your mba matter if you just want to do hospital admin?

 

[OrgasmicChemistry]

really like your response, I think you actually understood my question. thanks

Happy to help, but to be fair it was a confusing question. Are you seriously considering forgoing an MD/MBA acceptance to ride out the waitlists at other schools? I'm an unabashed prestige ***** so I'd have trouble getting excited about doing the Tufts MD/MBA also, but REALLY??? I feel like we've all invested so much to get an acceptance at this point that I couldn't let one go on the off chance I get off of some other waitlist...

 

[guannaberry]

Happy to help, but to be fair it was a confusing question. Are you seriously considering forgoing an MD/MBA acceptance to ride out the waitlists at other schools? I'm an unabashed prestige ***** so I'd have trouble getting excited about doing the Tufts MD/MBA also, but REALLY??? I feel like we've all invested so much to get an acceptance at this point that I couldn't let one go on the off chance I get off of some other waitlist...

I was drunk when i wrote the question LOL. I now realize how it could be so confusing. I mean, idk. The prospect of getting into geffen and then doing the anderson mba would be ideal at this point. Of my options, that would probably give me the best end game. I am not sure if it's worth it. I'm currently talking to a lot of friends in business to ask about their opinions on what I should do.

And as much as I liked Tufts when I interviewed, they are asking me to take out 111,446$ in loans. I think that is international language for go bury myself? Worst comes to worst, I might just work for a few years and apply to b-school. At this point, I'm not gonna lie; I'm fcking confused too. This next month until June registration at Tufts will be critical.

 

[cyberchicken001]

I was drunk when i wrote the question LOL. I now realize how it could be so confusing. I mean, idk. The prospect of getting into geffen and then doing the anderson mba would be ideal at this point. Of my options, that would probably give me the best end game. I am not sure if it's worth it. I'm currently talking to a lot of friends in business to ask about their opinions on what I should do.

And as much as I liked Tufts when I interviewed, they are asking me to take out 111,446$ in loans. I think that is international language for go bury myself? Worst comes to worst, I might just work for a few years and apply to b-school. At this point, I'm not gonna lie; I'm fcking confused too. This next month until June registration at Tufts will be critical.

Ha lol.

 

[trino]

The fact that a school is asking you to take out $440k in loans (not counting the 5th year for MBA) is the most compelling evidence I've seen for how screwed up medical education costs are in this country...

Since Tufts is the only school that accepted you, I don't see options for you OP. It has been highly discouraged by adcoms to back out of an MD acceptance and then try to reapply. In short, it shows confusion about your goals. I would wait until the June 15th deadline. If that rolls around and you haven't got any other acceptances, you're locked into Tufts. You can try and plead your way out of the MBA program, but I'm not sure the workings of that and you said they would rescind your offer. You might be able to plead your way out of it during med school though. Of course UCLA is ideal, but after June 15th I think movement will be minimal and there's no way you could place your bets on getting off the waitlist for one of the countries best medical schools.

Basically, if you want to be a doctor, don't go back on Tufts. I don't know if you can make it into hospital administration without an MD, but maybe that's an option

 

[OrgasmicChemistry]

hahaha, yea man that's a tough one. It really sucks they pull the plug on your MD app if you withdraw from the MBA. I don't think it's unreasonable to call the offices at the other places in a couple weeks, explain your situation, and ask for a decision in early June. It's probably well-timed, given that WLs should start moving soon.

Personally (and this is just me), I wouldn't bail on MD to do an MBA, but that's because I want to be a practicing physician. If you don't, it is def possible to do hospital admin with an MBA and no MD (my aunt went that route). Some programs specialize in Healthcare Management as well. However, don't count on working for a few years at a crappy job and getting into HBS. They want quality work experience and high level leadership roles.

Finally, if you got a 770 once, you'll be able to get at least a 750 again (which is an unofficial cutoff for competitive applications at the top schools). Don't worry about wasting your score, you can always retake the GMAT. Schools may even accept it at a later time bc it's a really really good one.

Good luck man

PS: yes, UCLA would be a dream

 

[ChemEngMD]

Technically, if he were to withdraw from the MBA program and put on the WL at Tufts - would OP have to report being accepted to a medical school previously if he were to apply again next cycle or the cycle after?

 

[OrgasmicChemistry]

Technically, if he were to withdraw from the MBA program and put on the WL at Tufts - would OP have to report being accepted to a medical school previously if he were to apply again next cycle or the cycle after?

huh... maybe not... that might be worth looking into

 

[guannaberry]

Definitely, not to mention the projected increase in loan interest rates in the next few years. It's like they are trying to make me unable to attend. My loans will literally exceed a million, and I can't believe the government is condoning this sht.

If i do go to tufts, it would limit my choices in specialty also, because I'll have that number above my head at all times. I wanted to do pediatrics, but clearly I have to do something else if I want to make an actual income.

The fact that a school is asking you to take out $440k in loans (not counting the 5th year for MBA) is the most compelling evidence I've seen for how screwed up medical education costs are in this country...

Since Tufts is the only school that accepted you, I don't see options for you OP. It has been highly discouraged by adcoms to back out of an MD acceptance and then try to reapply. In short, it shows confusion about your goals. I would wait until the June 15th deadline. If that rolls around and you haven't got any other acceptances, you're locked into Tufts. You can try and plead your way out of the MBA program, but I'm not sure the workings of that and you said they would rescind your offer. You might be able to plead your way out of it during med school though. Of course UCLA is ideal, but after June 15th I think movement will be minimal and there's no way you could place your bets on getting off the waitlist for one of the countries best medical schools.

Basically, if you want to be a doctor, don't go back on Tufts. I don't know if you can make it into hospital administration without an MD, but maybe that's an option

 

[Dwan]

That MBA is such a ripoff. No one else would pay for the program individually, so they lure MDs into buying it via dual degree. It seems like you had a strong app judging by your other interviews. I would withdraw from the MBA if I were you even if it meant risking being put on the WL, it simply is not worth the burden of $1 mil debt for a no-name MBA when you've done so well as an applicant (but only if, in the circumstance that you were to re-app, schools would not know that you held the MD/MBA acceptance)

 

[TheTod]

Yes, 770 is a great score, but like in med school admissions it's not all that matters in MBA admissions. Do you have enough professional business experience to be competitive for the top 10 business schools?

Hey, I don't mean to piggy-back on this thread, but I had a question about applying for the MBA portion as a medical student and you seem to understand a few things about MD/MBA programs.

My school offers an MD/MBA joint degree, but the students are expected to apply for the business school during their 3rd year. I've been toying with the idea and I was hoping that someone could give me an idea about how difficult it is to get into the MBA program as a MD student already. I've heard that chances of getting accepted are high, but I'm not certain if that's the typical experience. Do you know the relative difficulty level of getting in?

I have yet to take the GMAT and I'm not expecting to blow it out of the water considering that STEP 1 is looming around the corner. Yet, I have some military experience and some good leadership experience. Do you think that I'll meet any resistance in terms of getting accepted?


Thanks!