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Are any of you enrolled in an MD/MBA program? If so, how is it going and what specialty are you going into?
MD/MBA
- Thread starter MeghanMD
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5 years, like most other MD/Master's programs (MPP/MPA, MPH, MA/MS, MHS).
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Might as well just paint a bull's eye on your back.
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I did my MD/MBA/pHD/JD in just over 7 years, don't let anyone tell you you can't do something. Reach for the stars.
You can even get your MBA/MPH simultaneously with your MD curriculum through an online university like Davenport or Walden. I have a friend doing this right now and she manages to find time as you only get a few assignments per week. They space out the course work for about 2 years (I think)
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This could be sleeping pill hangover I'm experiencing right now but...you know that's not her actual picture, right? I think that's the Grey's chick. Or did she pull the switch-a-roo after you made that comment?
My current favorite new pre-med poster is CardiologyPrincess , trifecta of screen name, real pic (although no duck face, sadly) and content.
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are you cereal?
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At first I thought this was a joke, but now I think you're actually serious. How many universities have a med school but no b-school? Even if you're at Rush or Cornell (NYC), there should be numerous reputable business schools in close proximity.
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My school has a 4 year MD/MBA program that is full time in the summer before and after first year (4+ years?). I'm not really sure any of the students in the program know better than others what they want to do.
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Lol srsly online MBA? Lol. Any non top-15 MBA is already useless. An online MBA is worth less than the toilet paper I used last night.
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Yes, she pulled the switch-a-roo AFTER I made the comment. I know that was the actress from Grey's Anatomy. I say "was" bc that's no longer her avatar.
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Unless you are mainly aiming to build up your pedigree rep (i.e. attend a top school only for the sake of having it on your record), completing an MBA while in med school is not ideal, IMO.
I was as close as one could get to proceeding down this path and gave it a lot of thought.
What are you hoping to gain from an MBA?
1) Business knowledge and acumen? Not the best time to do it now. The platitude "if you don't use it, you lose it" is largely applicable. My undergrad major was in business...I did the stuff daily for 2-3 years. I graduated a few years ago and since that time haven't had to play with balance sheets, determine valuation, or juggle ratios...as a result I lost most of it from my working memory (sadly). Sure, it will come back to me quicker than those learning it from scratch -- but if you are looking to learn the foundation of "business" why not learn it when you are ready to actually apply it in daily operations?
2) The connections? Hint: this is where most of the utility in MBA's sits for most people. However, again, if you do your MBA during medical school -- you might make some good contacts, but once B-school graduation comes, your peers are going to go out and start hustling. On the other hand, you will have more med school...and then residency...and maybe a fellowship to tend to. By the time you are ready to break out of training mode and build your brand/empire/whatever -- your connections are going to be stale, or at least not as strong as when you were in the heat of the MBA program.
Some other thoughts:
MBA's aren't cheap. I made some posts long ago in the MD/MBA subforum doing a cost analysis of doing the joint degree. The numbers were pretty staggering. The fact that you are sticking on this extra tuition early in your career (when the utility of that purchase is essentially zero at that point in time) is a poor financial choice -- interest is accumulating on the purchase today for what you might not "use" for another 6-8 years.
If you are adamant about getting an MBA, depending on your specialty, residency might be the better time to pursue it. Some residencies will cover tuition. You will be closer to the point of actually being able to utilize the knowledge. You will be closer to the point of actually being able to utilize your connections.
I was as close as one could get to proceeding down this path and gave it a lot of thought.
What are you hoping to gain from an MBA?
1) Business knowledge and acumen? Not the best time to do it now. The platitude "if you don't use it, you lose it" is largely applicable. My undergrad major was in business...I did the stuff daily for 2-3 years. I graduated a few years ago and since that time haven't had to play with balance sheets, determine valuation, or juggle ratios...as a result I lost most of it from my working memory (sadly). Sure, it will come back to me quicker than those learning it from scratch -- but if you are looking to learn the foundation of "business" why not learn it when you are ready to actually apply it in daily operations?
2) The connections? Hint: this is where most of the utility in MBA's sits for most people. However, again, if you do your MBA during medical school -- you might make some good contacts, but once B-school graduation comes, your peers are going to go out and start hustling. On the other hand, you will have more med school...and then residency...and maybe a fellowship to tend to. By the time you are ready to break out of training mode and build your brand/empire/whatever -- your connections are going to be stale, or at least not as strong as when you were in the heat of the MBA program.
Some other thoughts:
MBA's aren't cheap. I made some posts long ago in the MD/MBA subforum doing a cost analysis of doing the joint degree. The numbers were pretty staggering. The fact that you are sticking on this extra tuition early in your career (when the utility of that purchase is essentially zero at that point in time) is a poor financial choice -- interest is accumulating on the purchase today for what you might not "use" for another 6-8 years.
If you are adamant about getting an MBA, depending on your specialty, residency might be the better time to pursue it. Some residencies will cover tuition. You will be closer to the point of actually being able to utilize the knowledge. You will be closer to the point of actually being able to utilize your connections.
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Good post, but isn't residency even more grueling than med school?
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Sure, and that was the reason for the important qualifier of "depending on the specialty".
General surgery at MGH (stereotype of hellish residency), good luck with that.
Psychiatry at San Mateo (stereotype of cush residency), should be very doable.
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Here's that cost analysis I referenced in an earlier post, in case anyone is interested in reading more (a lot more).
Two thoughts:
1) This was from 2012, so numbers prob have changed (but I'm guessing not favorably).
2) I apparently had a lot of free time before med school. I miss that.
http://forums.studentdoctor.net/thr...ts-weight-to-the-professional-student.960937/
Two thoughts:
1) This was from 2012, so numbers prob have changed (but I'm guessing not favorably).
2) I apparently had a lot of free time before med school. I miss that.
http://forums.studentdoctor.net/thr...ts-weight-to-the-professional-student.960937/
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Opportunity cost is so difficult to measure
Those doctors who go into the administrative side of hospital work - do they usually have some business education? I certainly can't see it being of much value merely to do private practice - as one could obviously pick most of it up without throwing away money.
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Opportunity cost is so difficult to measure
Those doctors who go into the administrative side of hospital work - do they usually have some business education? I certainly can't see it being of much value merely to do private practice - as one could obviously pick most of it up without throwing away money.
As you allude to, it is very hard to draw any concrete conclusions.
Some do have formal business education.
Some just have their MD degree, acumen, and hustled.
Steve Allen is the CEO of Nationwide Children's (very prominent healthcare entity out of OH). He only has an MD.
John Fox is CEO of Emory Healthcare. He only has an MBA.
Marc Boom is the CEO of The Methodist Hospital System (Houston). He has both an MD and MBA.
Jeffery Romoff is the CEO of UPMC (healthcare mega-system out of PA). He only has a masters...in philosophy. (and some other honorary degrees)
There is so much skill, talent, and luck inherent to landing these positions (between the politics, ladder climbing, etc) that the degrees are largely irrelevant at which to look, IMO.
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well degrees do play a major role. I have my MD/MBA/pHD/JD and i run stark industries.
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This makes sense. You are a world leader in measuring the acidity and basicity of solutions.
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I am a world leader in producing the best military grade equipment money can buy.
EDIT: CIA/FBI/Homeland i am totally just joking
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I'm sure you can see this, but clearly its what you learn as an MBA that us most helpful. And for MBA this would be admin/organiz skills..but I think the most 'successful' researchers r natural admin / projectmgr type ppl anyway so they don't need the school work and probably attend conferences on that stuff and learn from colleagues. What's more curious is how do u learn the finance and books piece that you could put to use in strategy function. That stuff us generally not very intuitive nor can you responsibly learn it 'on the job'. Basically sometguhgnlike treasury mgt is very,very hard, sort if takes a small lifetime to learn , and they don't integrate that kniwledge within MBA very successfully..its its own specialization. And again, the crossover is really only helpful on strategy perspective in large healthcare environment or of in the policy piece.
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This is just not true. Anyone who knows anything about MBAs or is one/has been in one will tell you that the most important thing for business school is connections. Everything else you mentioned is just gravy. The best guy with terrific management skills will never get his foot in the right door without knowing the right people who will recognize those skills and give him a chance.
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Anecdote:
My buddy finished up his MBA at HBS a couple of years ago after doing undergrad at Harvard, as well. I asked him if he was learning anything new, he said no. The connections were worth their weight in gold though.
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I just don't believe it.. too simple.. there's NO WAY you graduate from HBS having NOT learned alot of management, and books, and marketing... Obviously then if you just have a sales job it's all pointless..
And I also know that being able to work successfully in corporate strategy, especially financial.. Is VERY difficult.. AND ut takes YEARS to learn.. if youre not in sales and marketing or consulting (sales) or mergers (sales) then it's about a lot more than connections.
I'll never believe that large companies are well-managed because of all the connections of people who work there.. No one would ever BEGIN to teach that in business school..
Anyway, if all those b-schools WERE only about making connections and nothing else..then it sort of explains the financial bubble and the crash, and why we are stuck at 7-8percent unemployment.... SUCKS (just if you have never been taught how bad that is and what we need to do to fix it)
And I also know that being able to work successfully in corporate strategy, especially financial.. Is VERY difficult.. AND ut takes YEARS to learn.. if youre not in sales and marketing or consulting (sales) or mergers (sales) then it's about a lot more than connections.
I'll never believe that large companies are well-managed because of all the connections of people who work there.. No one would ever BEGIN to teach that in business school..
Anyway, if all those b-schools WERE only about making connections and nothing else..then it sort of explains the financial bubble and the crash, and why we are stuck at 7-8percent unemployment.... SUCKS (just if you have never been taught how bad that is and what we need to do to fix it)
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Well, he and several people in his class had put their time in on wall street in various positions with various companies, it's not like they went straight in from undergrad with no experience. I'm sure they learned about all of the things you've outlined but it's probably like medicine in that depending on where you end up on the spectrum, the classroom part of the education is more or less relevant.
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Yeah, that's the thing with business school - you can learn some cool stuff from getting an MBA, but mostly it's the degree itself that you are there to get, rather than what you learn in the process, to get a job. As was said, a lot of these things take years of time put in OTJ to get good at. What you are learning in bschool is a pretty basic framework. Mostly the top ranked MBA programs are recruited well from because their admissions process is considered the screener. FOr top MBA programs, you need to already have job experience and shown you can succeed there. You also need goo GMAT scores to show you can maths good. Most people who make that cut-off are capable once theyve been on the job for a bit. Then it's just about the people doing the hiring liking you. Probably the most open route to top business would be through entry finance, in which your awesome math skills can compensate for not being well connected and getting you into, say, princeton MFin program. But after working as a quant for a while youd probably want to go get an MBA to advance, but now you have hopefully gotten some experience at a well-reputed financial firm and can get into a top MBA program.
