MD Multiple Re-applicant--Tons of Clinicals, Great LORs

[dnl2111]

---

Members don't see this ad.

Hey y'all,

This is my FIFTH year applying, and I'm looking for a fairly objective opinion. In case anyone was wondering, none of the med schools in the Southeast hand out persistence awards to repeat rejects. LOL. I've spoken with the Deans of medicine at both UTHSC and ETSU, but I can't get a straight and useful answer out of them as to the reason for my difficulties for gaining admissions. They've said they're very happy with both my GPA and MCAT.

sGPA cGPA
UG - 3.00 3.34
G - 3.57

Senior GPA was 3.46/3.60, and Postbacc was 4.00/3.70. Freshman semester drags cumulative down because I was suspended. Huge uptrend afterward, though. (Slightly similar situation as TPPsych http://forums.studentdoctor.net/showthread.php?t=827929) Also spoken with multiple Deans about that, and was assured that because it happened in 2002 it is NOT an issue.

MCAT: 29Q 11V, 10P, 9B

Tennessee state school, 2008 - BBA, Finance; BS, Psychology; BS, General Sciences (Emphasis in Biology)

Columbia University, 2010 - MS, Risk & Revenue Management (think Quant. Finance)

Human Gross Anatomy in '05 (A), Union University; Organic Chemistry '07 (B), Harvard; Artifical Organs '10 (A-), Columbia

EC's
Took 1 couple years off from work and lived off wife's income to intern at busy (600+ patients/wk between 2 practitioners) Internal Medicine, Bariatric Medicine, and Sleep Medicine clinic. 50+ hours/wk for 18 months = 4000+ hrs.
OB/GYN - 700+ hrs w/ Meharry Director of OB/GYN Residency
Family Medicine - 80 hrs w/ UTHSC Asst Prof of Family Medicine
General Surgery - 40 hrs

LOR
2 MDs - 1 worked with over 4000 hours, 1 is Asst Prof of Family Medicine at UTHSC
4 Profs - Head of CU Artificial Organs Lab; Director of CU SEAS Master's Programs; Former Director of NYC MTA; Managing Director of Citibank

Harvard Summer Chorus
Team Captain, 3rd in State, Jr. Achievement Investment Challenge
Multiple Marquis Who's Who, National Dean's List, and University Dean's List (every semester for final 3 years)
Golden Key International Scholar Laureate Program
Freemasons - Blue Lodge, Scottish Rite, Shriners
Mensa

Work experience is different. Spent first semester of college building a house (financed, designed, and built it). Ever since then worked for family's business.

HELP! As I said, I've got 5 years worth of rejection letters. That's a stack big enough to...be a big stack. A friend from back home was accepted to ETSU last year with a comparable GPA, right out of undergrad with almost no clinical experience, and a 26 MCAT. This makes me think that there is something else going on that I'm not hearing when I call the Deans of Admission for advice on what they want to see that I didn't bring. I'm always told that everything looks great. Tired of hearing that. Even assuming they're happy with the GPA and MCAT, I want to hear what's the deal.

Also, in every interview I've had but one (out of 3 at ETSU w/ 2 people, 3 at Memphis w/ 2 people, 1 at Louisville w/ 2 people) I've caught major crap over the finance major. I know it's said that med schools don't care what you major in, but apparently that is incorrect (totally disagree with Mobius1985's comment at http://forums.studentdoctor.net/showthread.php?t=581887), at least to some extent. Thoughts on how to get past this issue in an interview? I have an interest in taking an administrative role at some point in the future, hence my majoring in Finance and Risk & Revenue Management, which is effectively very Advanced Quantitative Finance Methods.

Exhausted any contacts I may have at the schools, including a 50+ year Trustee at one school. Not a thing.

Big negative on the Caribbean medical schools. Already accepted to SGU. Visited there this summer with my wife. The school was great--it's a med school, they're all similar to me--but I can't deal with the location.

Appreciate the input.

 

[Goro]

Am I correct in seeing that the only sci courses you have are the pre-recs, the Anatomy, and the organ systems? Just help me out here in how many sci courses you have and how you did in them.

Superficially, you might be getting rejected because you only took one important sci course here, one there, and nothing that would show to an AdCom member that you can handle the load of medical school.

Alternatively, there is a red flag in one of your LORs. I seriously doubt that your finance backgorund is the issue; at my own school up to 8% of each Class is from non-traditional backgrounds/majors. Med schools actually like diversity in character of their student bodies.

Five straight years of rejection ought to be telling you something, but here's my advice. If you haven't some so, apply to DO schools. Also, STRONGLY suggest that you apply to an SMP or post-bac program to show you can handle a med school-like load.

And don't listen to Deans, they're paid to, well, exaggerate.

Hey y'all,
sGPA cGPA
UG - 3.00 3.34
G - 3.57

MCAT: 29Q 11V, 10P, 9B

Appreciate the input.

 

[1TB4RKSB4CK]

Everything besides MCAT and GPA (which are the two most important things) are solid. GPA is really low, even if your did a grad program. MCAT retake is a must. Have you considered D.O. or are you dead set on M.D.?

 

[dnl2111]

I'm actually very surprised you're getting grilled on your finance background. I was an economics major who worked as an intern at an investment bank prior to pursuing a post-bac program. Never once did anyone mention my finance background negatively in my interviews (they were in the northeast and midwest though, so maybe that made a difference?).. The closest anyone came was when someone asked me what I thought of bankers. I simply (and nervously) said that the people I worked with were all great and were all incredibly nice and giving and I think that it's unfortunate there's a negative stereotype surrounding them. The interviewer said "good answer" and moved on (ended up getting an acceptance here).

How are you portraying your finance background in your application? Is there even a hint in your essays that you were in it for the money (if not, why were you initially interested in finance)? And how is this grilling coming up in the interviews? What's your usual interview response?

Also, are you absolutely sure there are no red flags in your application (e.g. in your letters, etc.)? Good luck on your next (and hopefully last) application cycle!

Panda,

It's too bad that I haven't gotten your interviewers! Up until this year I've not even addressed the finance background in my application. In past years I talked strictly about my motivation and passion for pursuing the medical field. Given how hard I keep being ridden about it, though, I mentioned it in a revised personal statement this year. Talked about how a finance background will help me be able to better allocate limited resources to deliver better care to more patients...better able to treat uninsured, limitedly insured, and other disenfranchised patient populations...all that junk.

The question as to the finance background goes something like, "I see you majored in finance. Don't you think a science background would have been more useful?" Response: "I have an interest in administration and was encouraged by several doctors I know to seek an education in an unrelated field, because the pre-recs prepare you for med school and med school prepares you for medical practice. I had faith and confidence in their advice, and can see its utility when I'm shadowing." At this point, it's usually something like, "Well, why didn't you just go into banking or insurance or..." I actually had one interviewer ask me to name (by memory, and despite the school's policy of not providing interviewers with an interviewee's school transcripts) EVERY science class I've ever taken.

I was clued in this year that my Premed Committee letter from undergrad beat me down for majoring in finance, citing something like too many varied interests. I've gotten a new LOR from them that's stellar, but I was sad to know that the first FOUR years I was sending a letter where I was being dogged for not doing the standard Biology/Chemistry route. When I met with the Premed Committee to get a letter, one prof actually said, "It looks to me like you want to be an engineer!" Rather...frustrating. I had thought medical schools' policies of not requiring a major would obviate the need to justify a chosen major, but that has been untrue in my situation. I'm glad things worked so easily for you, Panda! How's school going?

Am I correct in seeing that the only sci courses you have are the pre-recs, the Anatomy, and the organ systems? Just help me out here in how many sci courses you have and how you did in them.

Superficially, you might be getting rejected because you only took one important sci course here, one there, and nothing that would show to an AdCom member that you can handle the load of medical school.

Alternatively, there is a red flag in one of your LORs. I seriously doubt that your finance backgorund is the issue; at my own school up to 8% of each Class is from non-traditional backgrounds/majors. Med schools actually like diversity in character of their student bodies.

Five straight years of rejection ought to be telling you something, but here's my advice. If you haven't some so, apply to DO schools. Also, STRONGLY suggest that you apply to an SMP or post-bac program to show you can handle a med school-like load.

And don't listen to Deans, they're paid to, well, exaggerate.

Goro,

Way more than just the pre-recs, but I can see how you could think that. 71 science hours total. 28 biology, 26 chemistry, 8 physics, and 9 math (plus Calculus AB/BC). Believe it or not, I couldn't get AMCAS count the Artificial Organs class as a science! I selected Biology, they changed it to engineering (Columbia says Biomedical Engineering, but I figured it'd go either way).

You're right, five years of rejection should clearly tell me something, but absent some honesty from the guys doing the rejecting the only thing it tells me is that a sixth rejection is in my future. ;D Does full-time work while taking a heavy load of crazy grad school classes not serve as testament to my ability to handle a rough load? Or how about 27 hours one summer (including Calculus I, Chem I, and Gross) and 26 hours the following fall? Always took a heavy courseload.

Keep it coming with all the advice guys!

 

[dnl2111]

Everything besides MCAT and GPA (which are the two most important things) are solid. GPA is really low, even if your did a grad program. MCAT retake is a must. Have you considered D.O. or are you dead set on M.D.?

Dead set. Gotta wonder how my friend with a 26 gains admission at ETSU with no probs? I know that my MCAT isn't awesome, but it's not awful either. ETSU's stats are 29O and 3.61/3.67. UTHSC's are 30O are 3.56/3.64. Maybe that's useful. I'm realistic that my numbers are slightly below these, but does the advanced degree and crazy amount of shadowing not offset this any?

Anything I can do, still the MD route, at this point?

 

[sector9]

At this point, I have to be brutally honest: I think it's something to do with your interview.

It is rather strange that your side of the story is that all of your interviewers gave you a lot of flak over being a finance major. Maybe their side of the story is "Oh I asked him how he made the transition from finance to medicine and he got extremely defensive." I've never heard of someone being harassed for having a 'different' major. In fact, I've heard positive things as long as the applicant still maintains normal premed activities.

I can see admissions deans being hesitant to say that you have a perceived character flaw that they found in an interview.

Other possibilities:
-Something in one of your LOR's. How many of the LOR's have you used all 5 years? Admissions deans would be hesitant to talk about this but the fact that you've been at the interview stage multiple times discounts this theory.
-At this point, you may be considered damaged goods. LizzyM has told us that schools can now see what years you applied through AMCAS, and seeing 4 previous years has got to be a huge red flag.
-What does your school list look like? How many schools have you applied to each year? Do you have a mix of different tiers of schools?

 

[LizzyM]

-At this point, you may be considered damaged goods. LizzyM has told us that schools can now see what years you applied through AMCAS, and seeing 4 previous years has got to be a huge red flag.

At this point, I seldom need to post. Someone ahead of me just quotes my opinion of a previous case and we're done.

A few other things: a crazy amount of shadowing can be seen as crazy. Being unemployed for >1 yr and spending one's time shadowing f/t doesn't seem sensible. That can be a red flag.

Be able to describe why you have chosen medicine, how you tested that interest and what type of practice you see yourself in (academic vs private practice, rural/suburban/urban, primary care/specialty, long term relationships with patients or not) and why is important. You should be able to describe what you would do if medicine were not an option (hypothetical question that goes to what attracts you to medicine).

There may be something about your non-verbal communications (your mannerisms, the way you carry yourself, your grooming, etc) that turns off interviewers. They may not even put their finger on it but it factors in when they make their decisions. That can be a hard one to pin down; have you done any mock interviews with feedback?

 

[deleted390966]

If you got interviews, you had 50/50 chance of being accepted. Frankly, interview really is all about LUCK: If you're lucky, you get a chill interviewer. Looks like you were unlucky.

Do A LOT of practice interviews, even if it's just you talking to yourself in the mirror!
There's an online service that gives you feedback on your LoRs, you should utilize it.

 

[gmcguitar4]

If you got interviews, you had 50/50 chance of being accepted.

This can't be true. Adcoms still consider MCAT and GPA and other factors that got you the interview. The interview is just another addition to your overall application and factors into the decision of acceptance.

 

[LizzyM]

This can't be true. Adcoms still consider MCAT and GPA and other factors that got you the interview. The interview is just another addition to your overall application and factors into the decision of acceptance.

At some schools, 50% of those who interview are offered admission to the school. At some schools the proportion is more or less than 50%. So, once you get to the interview stage, you have passed one huge hurdle (getting an interview invite) and in most cases the second hurdle is a more gentle numbers game. (e.g. 15% get interviews but 50% of interviewed applicants get offers; not, 50% of applicants get interviews and 15% of interviewed applicants get offers -- although I suppose some state schools can be that way).

 

[flodhi1]

This can't be true. Adcoms still consider MCAT and GPA and other factors that got you the interview. The interview is just another addition to your overall application and factors into the decision of acceptance.

It's very true, some schools even have < than 30% chance of acceptance post-interview. Usually it is 50/50 post interview.

 

[Catalystik]

Do you have any Institutional Actions against you, or legal issues that would show up on a background check?

 

[dnl2111]

At this point, I have to be brutally honest: I think it's something to do with your interview.

It is rather strange that your side of the story is that all of your interviewers gave you a lot of flak over being a finance major. Maybe their side of the story is "Oh I asked him how he made the transition from finance to medicine and he got extremely defensive." I've never heard of someone being harassed for having a 'different' major. In fact, I've heard positive things as long as the applicant still maintains normal premed activities.

I can see admissions deans being hesitant to say that you have a perceived character flaw that they found in an interview.

Other possibilities:
-Something in one of your LOR's. How many of the LOR's have you used all 5 years? Admissions deans would be hesitant to talk about this but the fact that you've been at the interview stage multiple times discounts this theory.
-At this point, you may be considered damaged goods. LizzyM has told us that schools can now see what years you applied through AMCAS, and seeing 4 previous years has got to be a huge red flag.
-What does your school list look like? How many schools have you applied to each year? Do you have a mix of different tiers of schools?

Not sure what you mean by the transition from finance to medicine. I majored in finance while taking med school pre-recs and then some with the ever-present goal of going into medicine. I'm of course subjective, but I've tried to make a conscious effort not to appear defensive. That has been more of a concern each year, because I realize that it's probably likely that a re-applicant is more likely to sound defensive and possibly even hostile, not because of justifying a different major but because of the multiple application cycles and the stress and frustration that accompanies them.

Any thoughts on how to overcome the stigma attached to multiple reapplications?

I actually did the obscene amount of shadowing on the advice of a TN state school dean, who said after the first year I applied that everything else looked great, but he wanted to see me get a great deal more clinical experience. And, to be clear, I actually got paid for it...minimum wage to fill in as an MA, since the clinic was chronically short-staffed, and go in with MD's and PA's to see patients when there was time. Great experience that showed me a lot about how a private practice operates and the different roles all the people play. Also really solidified my interest in internal and bariatric medicine and the private practice setting. Loved the long-term relationships with patients. Loved to see the patients with lifestyle-related stuff (hyperlipidemia, HTN, DMII, OSA) start exercising, put down the fork, quit the smoking, and do a complete 180 healthwise. Never mind how much healthier they are, seeing how happy it made them was awesome! Love being able to articulate this to interviewers when the question comes up, "What do you wanna be when you grow up?" or "Where will you be in 10 years?" or one of those other kind of questions.

 

[dnl2111]

If you got interviews, you had 50/50 chance of being accepted. Frankly, interview really is all about LUCK: If you're lucky, you get a chill interviewer. Looks like you were unlucky.

Do A LOT of practice interviews, even if it's just you talking to yourself in the mirror!
There's an online service that gives you feedback on your LoRs, you should utilize it.

I'll check that out for sure! Any idea on the website?

Most of the interviewers have actually been really cool. I don't wanna seem like I'm pissing and moaning, because the interview process is and should be about asking potential students tough questions. Most of them have been really great, they've just been critical of the finance degree. The only one that wasn't was a veterinarian who actually owned his own practice. The guy couldn't say enough about the utility of finance knowledge. Half of the interview was about stocks, bonds, and tax loopholes! Odd topic for a med school interview for sure. LOL

Actually been waitlisted twice at UTHSC and once at Louisville, but I was in the middle third for both and they only usually take the top third.

 

[dnl2111]

This can't be true. Adcoms still consider MCAT and GPA and other factors that got you the interview. The interview is just another addition to your overall application and factors into the decision of acceptance.

UTHSC 514 interviewed, 164 accepted, so 30/70 accept/reject. ETSU 249 interviewed, 141 accepted, so 40/60 accept reject.

Never known for sure, but are MCAT, GPA, and interview score jumping off points for further weeding out applicants, and then EC's, LOR's, and the other stuff is used to rank them further?

 

[dnl2111]

Do you have any Institutional Actions against you, or legal issues that would show up on a background check?

Mentioned it in the first post I think, but there's a lot of text there. Academic suspension, Fall 2003. 8 years ago, and I've been told by deans that with it that far back no one cares, but who knows. Major uptrend after that. I'd like to think it doesn't matter, but if it comes down to 2 identical applicants and one has an action against them, even way far back, I'll bet it matters. No to the legal issues...except for the 5 DUI's and a few Public Intoxes...j/k

 

[Catalystik]

1) Mentioned it in the first post I think, but there's a lot of text there. Academic suspension, Fall 2003. 8 years ago, and I've been told by deans that with it that far back no one cares, but who knows. Major uptrend after that. I'd like to think it doesn't matter, but if it comes down to 2 identical applicants and one has an action against them, even way far back, I'll bet it matters.

2) No to the legal issues...except for the 5 DUI's and a few Public Intoxes...j/k

1) Yeah, I saw that, and agree it's highly unlikely to matter AT ALL considering your subsequent excellent record, making it a nonissue. I'm glad to hear there were no illegal downloads, drinking citations, plagiarism, stalking charges, noise citations, etc, some of which are deal breakers.

2) I'm happy to see you've maintained your sense of humor despite a recurrently stressful situation. You're the kind of applicant who will maintain their cool during a future code blue.

 

[deleted390966]

I'll check that out for sure! Any idea on the website?

http://www.admissionscouncil.com/
I forgot to say: $25/letter

Never known for sure, but are MCAT, GPA, and interview score jumping off points for further weeding out applicants, and then EC's, LOR's, and the other stuff is used to rank them further?

In my experience, if the interviewer liked me, I got in.
I think they look at your whole app. again post-interview looking for grounds to reject you . If 2 candidates are equally good at interview, then other factors will come into play.

 

[FrkyBgStok]

How many schools did you apply to each year?

 

[dnl2111]

How many schools did you apply to each year?

~30...Do the math on that.

 

[dmf2682]

Is it just me or does anyone else come up with 30 for the op's mcat?

I'm assuming that because the numbers don't add up to your quoted total score that you've retakes in there. How many did you do, if more than one, and what were each of the scores?

 

[kautionwirez]

did you apply to all 130+ MD schools with 5 cycles?

I applied to 37-38 MDs, only 1 acceptance this cycle. May be a hit or miss?

 

[dnl2111]

did you apply to all 130+ MD schools with 5 cycles?

I applied to 37-38 MDs, only 1 acceptance this cycle. May be a hit or miss?

Not all 130+ MD schools, but almost every one in the Southeast, several New England, and a few Western. 30+ MD applications.

Is this your first year to have applied? Multiple interviews?

 

[elblackwell]

A veterinarian interviewed you for med school??

 

[Goro]

Concur here; we interview a lot more than we accept. But truth is, one has to work at bombing an interview.

I hadn't thought about how the OP is coming across int he interview, but there may be something to it. Could you be seen as wanting to go into medicine purely for profit? Seen as disinterested in the other interviewees (if in apanel interview)? Coming across as arrogant? Too soft -spoken? I've rejected people for being barely audible. We've also rejected people for havign a flat affect (ie, never cracking a smile)....people on some types of meds have that problem.

Something to consider is the "what have you done to improve yourself since the last interview?" question. If all you done is shadowing, that might be it. I do agree with the OP that being able to work full time and handle many courses should indicate the ability to do well in medical school (provided you're getting As and Bs).

And you don't have any felonies in your background? Mulitple misdemeanors?? We'll reject people for that too.

This can't be true. Adcoms still consider MCAT and GPA and other factors that got you the interview. The interview is just another addition to your overall application and factors into the decision of acceptance.

 

[dnl2111]

Concur here; we interview a lot more than we accept. But truth is, one has to work at bombing an interview.

I hadn't thought about how the OP is coming across int he interview, but there may be something to it. Could you be seen as wanting to go into medicine purely for profit? Seen as disinterested in the other interviewees (if in apanel interview)? Coming across as arrogant? Too soft -spoken? I've rejected people for being barely audible. We've also rejected people for havign a flat affect (ie, never cracking a smile)....people on some types of meds have that problem.

Something to consider is the "what have you done to improve yourself since the last interview?" question. If all you done is shadowing, that might be it. I do agree with the OP that being able to work full time and handle many courses should indicate the ability to do well in medical school (provided you're getting As and Bs).

And you don't have any felonies in your background? Mulitple misdemeanors?? We'll reject people for that too.

Do you mean I could be seen as wanting to go into medicine purely for profit (5 years of pursuing medical school admission notwithstanding) because I was a finance major and that's the natural assumption, or because of what I might be saying in an interview? I make it a point not to say anything that might sound like, "I wanna make money!" because I figure that's a major red flag for Admissions Committees and is a surefire way to torpedo any chances at admission.

Any thoughts on what to do to improve between interviews? I assumed the advanced degree would help, but it didn't.

No to any felonies or misdemeanors, unless you count a Class C misdemeanor...speeding ticket from 6 years ago! Check out my response to Catalystik's question yesterday about the criminal background. And what's an OP?

And that's right, Blackwell, a veterinarian interviewed me at ETSU. If I'm remembering right, in the Intro part of the interview day we were told that anyone from ETSU's ADCOM might be doing interview, and that includes, MD's, DO's, DVM's, MD students, and even community members who have an interest (donors I'm thinking?) in ETSU. The interview was about the most laid back one I've had. He asked me what I did in my spare time, and when I was mid-sentence, he said, "Do you ever have some friends over and grill steaks and drink some beer?" Never guessed I'd hear that question in an interview. And then, I joke not, the guy started talking about possum and coon hunting !

 

[sector9]

No to any felonies or misdemeanors, unless you count a Class C misdemeanor...speeding ticket from 6 years ago! Check out my response to Catalystik's question yesterday about the criminal background. And what's an OP?

Have you been disclosing your speeding ticket misdemeanor on your primary application?

Also, you're the OP! The OP means "original poster"

Also, can you clear up the MCAT confusion. How many times have you taken it? What is your most recent individual score?

 

[Goro]

I don't think the Finance major is the issue, but something that's being said or implied in the interview. we rejected one fellow because he gave off the vibe that what he really wanted to do was open and manage hospitals, and NOT treat patients.


Do you mean I could be seen as wanting to go into medicine purely for profit (5 years of pursuing medical school admission notwithstanding) because I was a finance major and that's the natural assumption, or because of what I might be saying in an interview?

I make it a point not to say anything that might sound like, "I wanna make money!" because I figure that's a major red flag for Admissions Committees and is a surefire way to torpedo any chances at admission.

At this point, all I can add would be to keep taking a course here and there to show you're not getting academically stale (and suggest something that interested you in the biological fields that is medically related, or something in Global or Public Health.)

Also suggest being realistic and preparing for another career,

 

[TriagePreMed]

A very serious red flag has to be going on for 5 years of rejections. I don't think being a finance major would be what's holding you back. Start applying to D.O. schools or go to SGU. You've already wasted 5 years of your life. How much more are you going to waste?

 

[TropicalKitty]

I'm wondering how much the 5 app cycles weighs in, as well. I don't remember the details of what you've explained, but if you haven't really improved between the cycles, then can you really expect a better shot? Do the schools have a cut off for how many times they'll consider an applicant?

As for the ETSU interview, man, I would have loved that interviewer!

The other question, are you a TN resident? I assume so since you mention UT & ETSU, but if you aren't, that could be another hurdle for those schools. Did you apply to Meharry?

Anyway, I don't think I can add any more than what has been said by the experts.

 

[dnl2111]

Have you been disclosing your speeding ticket misdemeanor on your primary application?

Also, you're the OP! The OP means "original poster"

Also, can you clear up the MCAT confusion. How many times have you taken it? What is your most recent individual score?

LOL. The speeding ticket was a joke. No way I'd actually list something like that. Guess it wasn't funny?

Sorry, meant to clear up the MCAT thing. Took it twice. Once straight off the tails of Organic. Only 2 weeks of studying, and rocked a big fat 25O 9V, 7P, 9B. I know, I know...piss poor score. I think that's probably Meharry caliber, though. Took a semester, studied Exam Krackers, took a couple dozen practice tests (scored in the 32-35 range) and got a 29Q 11V, 10P, 8B. Both UT and ETSU said they consider only the best subscores, but who knows if that's how it goes.

And to your question Kitty, I'm a TN resident. Applied to Meharry this year, but the MCAT scores were too old. Gonna take the Kaplan course this spring I guess. Applied for this year and last year, but didn't apply there in previous years because I didn't know how...open their admissions policy was. Hope that came out okay. And I did apply to Morehouse last cycle. Didn't even get an interview at either. Just did a search online, and MCATtestscoresonline.com puts Morehouse's average MCAT 26.8 and GPA at 3.3, and Oswego State puts Morehouse's average MCAT at 21 and GPA at 3.0. I have no clue why a 29 wouldn't merit an interview. E-mailed Morehouse for feedback. Got no response.

And thanks again, everybody, for all the great responses! Keep them coming! You mentioned a class or two, Goro. Any idea if doing the Paramedic night class thing looks good? Clearly a far cry from med school, but think that might serve to re-establish dedication to and an interest in the healthcare field?

 

[Catalystik]

Applied to Meharry this year, but the MCAT scores were too old. Gonna take the Kaplan course this spring I guess. Applied for this year and last year, but didn't apply there in previous years because I didn't know how...open their admissions policy was. Hope that came out okay. And I did apply to Morehouse last cycle. Didn't even get an interview at either. Just did a search online, and MCATtestscoresonline.com puts Morehouse's average MCAT 26.8 and GPA at 3.3, and Oswego State puts Morehouse's average MCAT at 21 and GPA at 3.0. I have no clue why a 29 wouldn't merit an interview. E-mailed Morehouse for feedback. Got no response.

Meharry and Morehouse are both mission-driven, rather than stats-oriented schools. As you have not mentioned a strong pattern of dedicated service to underserved or disadvantaged populations, that would be a good reason they would not consider you.

 

[sector9]

LOL. The speeding ticket was a joke. No way I'd actually list something like that. Guess it wasn't funny?

Sorry, meant to clear up the MCAT thing. Took it twice. Once straight off the tails of Organic. Only 2 weeks of studying, and rocked a big fat 25O 9V, 7P, 9B. I know, I know...piss poor score. I think that's probably Meharry caliber, though. Took a semester, studied Exam Krackers, took a couple dozen practice tests (scored in the 32-35 range) and got a 29Q 11V, 10P, 8B. Both UT and ETSU said they consider only the best subscores, but who knows if that's how it goes.

And to your question Kitty, I'm a TN resident. Applied to Meharry this year, but the MCAT scores were too old. Gonna take the Kaplan course this spring I guess. Applied for this year and last year, but didn't apply there in previous years because I didn't know how...open their admissions policy was. Hope that came out okay. And I did apply to Morehouse last cycle. Didn't even get an interview at either. Just did a search online, and MCATtestscoresonline.com puts Morehouse's average MCAT 26.8 and GPA at 3.3, and Oswego State puts Morehouse's average MCAT at 21 and GPA at 3.0. I have no clue why a 29 wouldn't merit an interview. E-mailed Morehouse for feedback. Got no response.

Well some states do consider speeding tickets to be misdemeanors, so if one popped up on your background and you didn't disclose it, then you'd be screwed.

Considering that most schools only accept MCAT scores from the past three years, then I guess you'd be at a distinct disadvantage applying without a score that schools will consider this year.

For example, both Morehouse and ETSU will only accept as far back as 2009 MCAT scores this year. If this is your 5th application cycle, that means your first was in 2007. If we say you took your first MCAT in June 2007 right before your first cycle, then you took a semester to study after getting your score back, then your second score can't be any more recent than 2008. That means your score is too old for this cycle.

Year 1-2007
Year 2-2008
Year 3-2009
Year 4-2010
Year 5- 2011 cycle

 

[Goro]

I don't recall if you've mentioned if you're URM; Morehouse is a a historically black school, so if you're not URM, unless you're stellar, I'd rule them out as being viable. Ditto Meherry. I'm still surprised at your bad luck with ETSU. STRONGLY suggest trying Edmund Via or DeBusk DO schools, perhaps PCOM-GA or Pikesville as well.

EMT sound very good to me. If there's any other medically relevant course that might be interesting to you subject-wise, and you haven't taken, [neuroscience? immunology? histology?], I'd suggest one of those. Just to show you've still got it.

...

apply to Morehouse last cycle. Didn't even get an interview at either. Just did a search online, and MCATtestscoresonline.com puts Morehouse's average MCAT 26.8 and GPA at 3.3, and Oswego State puts Morehouse's average MCAT at 21 and GPA at 3.0. I have no clue why a 29 wouldn't merit an interview. E-mailed Morehouse for feedback. Got no response.

You mentioned a class or two, Goro. Any idea if doing the Paramedic night class thing looks good? Clearly a far cry from med school, but think that might serve to re-establish dedication to and an interest in the healthcare field?

 

[dnl2111]

I don't recall if you've mentioned if you're URM; Morehouse is a a historically black school, so if you're not URM, unless you're stellar, I'd rule them out as being viable. Ditto Meherry. I'm still surprised at your bad luck with ETSU. STRONGLY suggest trying Edmund Via or DeBusk DO schools, perhaps PCOM-GA or Pikesville as well.

EMT sound very good to me. If there's any other medically relevant course that might be interesting to you subject-wise, and you haven't taken, [neuroscience? immunology? histology?], I'd suggest one of those. Just to show you've still got it.

Good to know about EMT. For the medically relevant course, you think undergrad or graduate? I feel silly being done with undergrad and going back to take a class, but it seems to be the consensus that grad school classes, at least when ADCOMs look at your grades, don't carry as much weight?

 

[RookTookIt]

Go to SGU. You're completely dead set on an MD and you have an MD acceptance. I can't believe that you're willing to spend 5+ years (and a ton of money) on applying but won't spend a couple of years in a location that you don't love. It's only 2 years, and those will be years spent towards getting your MD. Plus, it seems to me that you have the tenacity to do well at SGU.

Also, now that schools can see your previous application years, it's only going to get harder for you. Take your SGU acceptance and run with it.

 

[MeganWegan]

Meharry and Morehouse are both mission-driven, rather than stats-oriented schools. As you have not mentioned a strong pattern of dedicated service to underserved or disadvantaged populations, that would be a good reason they would not consider you.

Mission driven schools? What a joke! Morehouse's mission statement:

Morehouse School of Medicine is dedicated to improving the health and well-being of individuals and communities; increasing the diversity of the health professional and scientific workforce; and addressing primary health care needs through programs in education, research, and service, with emphasis on people of color and the underserved urban and rural*populations in Georgia and the nation.

Oh, to be a minority and be held to lower standards!

Average stats for white applicants: 29.0P, 3.08 SGPA, 3.26 CGPA
Average stats for white applicants: 22.2N, 3.49 SGPA, 3.58 CGPA

And yet, the acceptance rate is so much higher for these "disadvantaged" (read "less qualified") applicants. Let's take, for example, an applicant with a 27-29 MCAT and 3.40-3.59 CGPA.

Acceptance rate for whites: 35.9%
And for Hispanics: 69.1%
But if you're black...: 84.8%

Bring your CGPA up to 3.60-3.79...and it's 52.3% if you're white, 80.2% if you're Hispanic, but 94.8% if you're black!!!!! Looks like your CGPA falls in the 3.20-3.39 range, so the acceptance rate for similar applicants is 24.5%. Goes up to 54.1% if you're hispanic, and 81.9% if you're black.

Average stats for white matriculants: 31.5Q, 3.33 SGPA, 3.46 CGPA
Average stats for blacks matriculants: 26.6O, 3.66 SGPA, 3.71 CGPA

Reference AAMC Applicant and Matriculant Data at https://www.aamc.org/data/facts/applicantmatriculant/ to confirm.

It's too bad that less qualified applicants are admitted based solely on the color of their skin, which is viewed by ADCOMS as what the Supreme Court calls a "plus factor.". Probably gonna catch some major flaming for this post, but seriously. Someone said earlier that ADCOMs dont look at grad school GPAs because they can't compare it to others who didn't go to grad school. What a dumb statement, because everyone has unique circumstances that set them apart from other applicants, and thus they are impossible to objectivey and quantitatively compare! Even we ladies are treated somewhat differently. Average applicant MCAT: 27.1 female and 29.3 male. Average matriculant: 30.4 female and 31.7 male. I personally find it offensive that we ladies aren't held to the same standard, too. I worked hard for my grades and a very competitive MCAT! I didn't want in because I'm a woman, I wanted in because I'm intelligent, studious, and passionate about being an excellent physician.

My suggestion to the OP is to click "black" or "Hispanic" on the AMCAS self-identify question. Easier to fake than female (let's hope ). If everyone else gets special treatment simply because they're born with darker skin, why shouldn't you? Anyone else that thinks students should be admitted on merit and not color respond.

Hang in there and keep on persevering. I've gotta admire you're perseverance. I honestly would think that schools do, too. A friend of mine actually applied 2x (accepted), and she told me when she interviewed one of her interviewers complimented her on reapplying. The interviewer (non-academic, Pediatrics maybe?) had also been a 2 timer. With a positive attitude like yours you'll get in somewhere.

 

[TriagePreMed]

Snip.

Please don't start another one of these. We've had enough of them. If you don't like the college and what it does, don't apply to it. Not everyone agrees with your interpretation of the facts.Lets leave it at that instead of derailing this thread.

 

[dnl2111]

Go to SGU. You're completely dead set on an MD and you have an MD acceptance. I can't believe that you're willing to spend 5+ years (and a ton of money) on applying but won't spend a couple of years in a location that you don't love. It's only 2 years, and those will be years spent towards getting your MD. Plus, it seems to me that you have the tenacity to do well at SGU.

Also, now that schools can see your previous application years, it's only going to get harder for you. Take your SGU acceptance and run with it.

Guess I'm gonna have to check out osteopathy school. I appreciate the vote of confidence on SGU, but after spending a few days in Grenada...rough stuff.

And why did Miss Megan get banned? From what I could tell, all she did is state facts that are available on AMSA's website (I checked). LOL. Not saying what I think one way or the other (don't wanna get banned for offending a moderator), but are we not allowed to have opinions? Or rather, dissenting opinions? I figured having a devil's advocate would be encouraged among all of us prospective medical professionals...diverse opinions require we think!

 

[dnl2111]

I don't recall if you've mentioned if you're URM; Morehouse is a a historically black school, so if you're not URM, unless you're stellar, I'd rule them out as being viable. Ditto Meherry. I'm still surprised at your bad luck with ETSU. STRONGLY suggest trying Edmund Via or DeBusk DO schools, perhaps PCOM-GA or Pikesville as well.

EMT sound very good to me. If there's any other medically relevant course that might be interesting to you subject-wise, and you haven't taken, [neuroscience? immunology? histology?], I'd suggest one of those. Just to show you've still got it.

How do some public health classes grab you? Maybe epidemiology or environmental health, or are they sciency (should be a word) enough.

 

[pchemichem]

Definitely do some research and consider DO. I have done a ton of research into DO, and even applied and have acceptances to DO (as well as MD) this cycle. If you truly want to practice medicine, then there really is not any disadvantage to DO.

50 years ago, sure DO would be viewed as different. There is not a hard division today (of course you will always have people who disagree). But medical school is what you make of it, whether you go to a "prestigious" MD school or a DO school, most of the options are open to you. You really have nothing to lose! Good luck with everything!

 

[dnl2111]

I don't recall if you've mentioned if you're URM; Morehouse is a a historically black school, so if you're not URM, unless you're stellar, I'd rule them out as being viable. Ditto Meherry. I'm still surprised at your bad luck with ETSU. STRONGLY suggest trying Edmund Via or DeBusk DO schools, perhaps PCOM-GA or Pikesville as well.

EMT sound very good to me. If there's any other medically relevant course that might be interesting to you subject-wise, and you haven't taken, [neuroscience? immunology? histology?], I'd suggest one of those. Just to show you've still got it.

Any reason why those particular DO schools? I'm not up on reps of DO schools. Any opinion on the 2 Missouri DO schools? Closer to home.

And anyone think the public health classes are enough to stave off the look of academic staleness? And might a new MCAT score that is any higher accomplish the exact same thing?

Still very against spending 2 years in the Caribbean. No Wal-Mart...no car...no o'charleys...no streetlights covering the roads...no carpet...no dod...and 8-12 hours to get back home! Never mind how tough it'd be for me, I think my wife just might go straight crazy!

 

[Goro]

I mentioned those because I surmised that you were a TN resident, given your interview at ETSU. BUT, the state of MO boasts Kirksville, which is the flagship of all the DO schools. KC-COM is fine too. Let's throw in Des Moines, CCOM and OKCOM, since they're also in your neighborhood.

Any reason why those particular DO schools? I'm not up on reps of DO schools. Any opinion on the 2 Missouri DO schools? Closer to home.

And anyone think the public health classes are enough to stave off the look of academic staleness? And might a new MCAT score that is any higher accomplish the exact same thing?

Still very against spending 2 years in the Caribbean. No Wal-Mart...no car...no o'charleys...no streetlights covering the roads...no carpet...no dod...and 8-12 hours to get back home! Never mind how tough it'd be for me, I think my wife just might go straight crazy!

 

[StudyShy]

I would to an SMP or DO at this point. Good luck!

 

[futuredoc1004]

You have an acceptance that you don't like. I urge you to reconsider in your own best interests. I am not familiar with the US system but would think taking courses here and there would be meaningless in the grand scheme of things. Seems to me that your interview skills are lacking. If I werer you I would grab SGU. I know of more than one case where acceptance was rejected b ut no other offers ever came again. A bird in the hand is worth more than 2 better ones in the bush that are beyond your grasp.