MD or DO

Discussion in 'Pre-Medical - MD' started by JONM, Feb 17, 1999.

  1. JONM

    JONM Member

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    I'm wondering how many of you out there, if given the opportunity, would choose MD over DO or vice versa? Why?
     
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  3. macey

    macey Junior Member

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    JOHNM,
    I'm not really sure if I chose osteopathic medicine or if it chose me. Two years ago, I applied to about 13 MD schools and sent in secondaries for several DO schools (I would have applied to more DO schools but I didn't have a letter of rec. from a DO which I believe is crucial). I didn't get a single interview anywhere. For the next two years, among other application enhancing projects, I really took the time to learn about o. medicine and realized that I never knew anything about it when I applied the first time. My own beliefs concerning medicine and health mirror the ideals set forth by Still... the holistic approach, treating the whole patient, spending time with the patient, the body has an innate ability to heal itself, the systems and functions of the body are interrelated, etc. I also do not believe in pill pushing (the pharmaceutical industry is the most lucrative industry in the world... read "Bitter Pills") but I do believe in preventive medicine like eating healthy and exercise. The final experience that let me know o. medicine was for me was when I did my EMT clinicals in a primarily DO hospital. I met several DO's as well as fourth year students who were some of the most compassionate and intelligent people I had ever met (One guy from COMP blew away the first step of the boards with a 98%). Osteopathic medicine is more that traditional medicine supplemented with OMT. It also includes a philosophy that the patient always comes first. That we as physicians are there to help them even if all we can do is hold their hand as they die (I strongly recommend "Tuesdays with Morrie"). I have now been accepted to five DO programs and would never choose an MD school. I feel extremely fortunate to be so lucky. Anyway, these are just some of my own personal beliefs. Thanks for listening.
    Macey
     
  4. Henry

    Henry Senior Member

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    I will make the same decision and get into Osteopathic med again. No regret. If you have try OMT yourself, you will realize the wonders of it.
     
  5. 2003

    2003 Senior Member

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    I applied to 4 MD and 6 DO schools and then did not return my secondaries to the MD schools. I saved some money and have absolutely no regrets. I start at Nova this fall.
     
  6. edgar

    edgar Senior Member

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    I would chose DO over MD as well. I didn't apply to MD schools because I knew they wouldn't consider me because my grades are average and my MCATs are below average for MD schools. So this year I ended up applying to 17 DO schools and I got accepted to 2. My DO Mentor was the person who convinced me that osteopathic medicine is the medicine of the future. Seeing him perform OMT so skillfully on his patients seemed to bring the art back into the science of medicine. I know I want to be a primary care doc, and so I think DO medical school offers better training than most MD schools, though some schools like UC Davis offer an excellent primary care program as well. Another major consideration of choosing DO over MD is the sophistication and maturity of the students that attend DO schools. Though I did meet a few gunners at my DO interviews, overall people seemed genuinely supportive of each other and were just plain nice people. In contrast, I took several Kaplan MCAT classes with 99% MD applicants. Many were jerks, constantly acting elitist even though they hadn't even gotten into medical school or even taken the MCAT. I felt nothing but competition against these MD applicant folks, and it didn't make me feel very good about myself. Prestige and arrogance have nothing to do with medicine, especially when your patients will sometimes be suffering so bad they don't care where you went to medical school or did your residency. They just want you to act like a real person and support them anyway you can, by prescribing, doing surgery, or just talking to them. I know for sure I would not be happy going to an MD institution, but I am certain I'm going to love DO medical school.

    EDGAR
     
  7. Diane E

    Diane E Member

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    The choice MD vs. DO depends on a variety of factors. The most important is the theory behind the practice. As macey stated, their desire to become a physician was derived through exposure. I know many more MD's than I know DO's but the DO philosophy suits me better. My 2 cents, volunteer with both an MD and a DO physician. Always remember, the ultimate decision- - do you really want to be a physician?
    Diane E
    UHS-COM 2003
     
  8. jwpelley

    jwpelley Member

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    You might find the commentary by Kitt Klaiss, D.O. at my website interesting. The url is http://www.ttuhsc.edu/success/guest.htm .

    Dr. Klaiss is a practicing D.O. and has contributed to the former ONet forum on numerous occasions.

    my best,

    jwpelley

    ------------------


    [This message has been edited by jwpelley (edited 02-18-99).]
     
  9. DAVEG

    DAVEG New Member

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    EDGAR, WHEN YOU SAY THAT THE ALLOPATHIC MED SCHOOLS WOULD NOT CONSIDER YOU BECAUSE OF
    YOUR GRADES AND SCORES; HOW BAD WERE THEY? I TOO AM IN THE "BAD GRADE" BOAT AND AM CONCERNED ABOUT THE SCORES NEEDED TO GET INTO MEDICAL SCHOOL. DAVEG
     
  10. JONM

    JONM Member

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    The question still remains: (worded differently) How many of you have been accepted to both MD and DO schools and chose MD over DO or viceversa? Why?
     
  11. edgar

    edgar Senior Member

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    DaveG:

    Science GPA: 3.4
    Non-Sci GPA: 3.4
    MCAT: 27
    Graduate GPA: 3.75

    You can e-mail me if you have more questions: [email protected] I am finishing an M.S. in Cancer Biology, and my science GPA is a blend of undergrad and grad work.

    EDGAR
     
  12. JONM

    JONM Member

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    Edgar, if you didn't even apply or interview at an allopathic school, how can you know for certain that such a "majority" of them have elitist attitudes.

    This chat line is full of over-generalizations and you are contributing to it.

    May I remind you that making derogatory statements about other people or other philosophies is usually a sign that perhaps you are not confident about your own personality or beliefs. I read every new comment that gets posted on this forum. I am the last person that would ever suggest suppressing someone's opinion, but many of the comments I read from the younger applicants and young first year students are simply immature. In addition, the replies seem to have nothing to do with the question.
    I think you will enjoy your future in medicine more if you just stop thinking about the other guys and concentrate on your own education. There really aren't that many MD's out there who honestly feel that they are superior to a DO. Anyone of them who does would be a fool to admit it because this profession is not about self-serving, it's about serving others. No, I am not a PeaceCorps volunteer, but I did choose medicine to help ease the pain and concerns of the suffering. My point is...what difference does it make what letters are behind your name? Choose to rise above this senseless line of conversation and concentrate on discussing issues that will truly impact science and medicine.

    I only wanted to hear the reasons that other people chose MD over DO or viceversa so that I could gather information about my decision. Please know that whatever I choose, ultimately it won't matter if I work hard in either discipline. Why? Because it's about serving others not serving yourself.


     
  13. victor

    victor Junior Member

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    JON,

    There's quite a few students in my class who chose DO over MD after getting accepted to both. Post your questions at our SGA website. Most KCOM students don't know where IMS Lounge is.

    http://www.kcom-sga.threadnet.com









     
  14. NickCVM

    NickCVM Senior Member

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    hmmm JOHNM
    apparently you feel very strongly about this issue, but what exactly is the issue here?
    I'm sorry and please don't shoot me but I applied to both MD(2)& DO(6) schools, interviewed at both MD&DO and got into both MD&DO (1MD, 1DO.) Choose WesternU bc/ 1. it was cheapper, 2. the students didn't act like Jack asses, 3. the MD school was not one of the best nore the cheappest, I give you that, and to confirm my fears about that particular school - the day of my interview my interviewers were more concerned about why I made the 1 C I had in intro to Biology my freshman year (the only C I've ever had) unstead of foccusing on who I really was - anyway it was one of the sorriest days in my life and I have no regrets for telling them to go hell. 4. WesternU has a good primary care programe 5. It has more "well" placed residents 6. I wanted to got Osteopathic to start with (and learn OMT) so I am very excited to be attending a DO school in the fall.
    I hope this helped -
    --Nicolas--
    WesternU'03
     
  15. JONM

    JONM Member

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    Thanks Nick. Please don't shoot me but it sounds like you have a bitter taste in your mouth after mentioning allopathic medicine. Why can't anyone just say they chose DO without making a derogatory statement about MDs in the following sentence? Just a thought.
     
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  17. NickCVM

    NickCVM Senior Member

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    Hey JONM
    It's not allopathic medicine that bothers me, it's the schools I decided to apply to. The one I got interviewed at sucked. However I've got nothing vs. MD's. They are physicians after all! Some of my friends are going the allopathic way and I'm sure they will be great docs. By the way I think its perfectly OK to apply both ways, but if your hearth is set on MD - it's kind a pointless to go DO - or you'll be unhappy -just a thought.
    take care.
    --Nicolas--
    WesternU'03
     
  18. JONM

    JONM Member

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    I agree. Good luck in med. school Nick.
     
  19. edgar

    edgar Senior Member

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    JONM,

    Alright then, thanks for pointing out the fact that I have made overgeneralizations. I have nothing against MDs, my mentor and one of the greatest ortho surgeons in the country is an MD from Penn. He is a stud, a great doctor, and family man. I don't have anything against MDs, all my doctors in my life have been MDs except this year when I've been seeing a DO. You asked my opinion about med students, and I have not been impressed with the idiots in my college classes that have been admitted to many "prestigious" allopathic medical schools. They are competitive, immature, and they cry when they spill their reaction product during o-chem lab. I personally know of several "jackasses" (as Nick so eloquently puts it) who got multiple MD acceptances. If you ever visit The Princeton Review pre-med website, all the pre-MDs do is bash DOs. I don't really care what these people think anyway, I'm impressed with Nick and my other-soon-to-be COMP students and I'm going to be happy in DO school. You seem determined to be an MD, that is fine. But don't do it as a backup, let someone who is HONESTLY interested in osteopathic medicine study in a DO school. One of my friends who is a senior at KCOM is sick and tired of allopathic rejects at KCOM who always complain about not getting to MD school. Her solution is clear and simple, drop out of KCOM and transfer! So, I don't have a problem with practicing MDs, I just have a problem with younger MD students and premeds with an attitude problem. You asked me for an opinion, and there you have it.

    EDGAR
    Class of 2003
    WesternU---COMP

     
  20. Henry

    Henry Senior Member

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    DO or MD is a choice and it is not a choice with a single reason.

    I think many of us have experienced that allopathic schools do emphasized a lot in academic performace and grades, even research experience. Many schools even look at the reputaion of your undergrad school.

    I used to work in New York Hospital and my lab is next to the medical school student's lab. One thing I have observed that class is not well mixed.

    Even the asians in the class are all american born and don't speak their mother languge well. I can not explain how is the selection process of students being made, but many have told me that Cornell is an elite school.

    You may have heard of a lot of these type of stories regrading allopathic school and they do exist. If this is the way how medical schools select their students, of course, there are lots of bias.

    The current MCAT is against students that came from a foriegn land. There are more reading than science. If you can't read fast, you will never finish, not to mention about analazying. People that came from other countries have difficulties to reach to the standard of the native born. If the school selection is based on MCAT as an important criteria, then there are of course, bias towards many students.

    GPA: if you can afford to a pirvate school or Harvard, Yale, etc, as your undergrad, you may be receiving better education. My undergraduate and graduate school is a public school. I am not saying my schools are bad, I have a great education, but when I apply to medical school, the reputation of my school have some weight to my chances. Especially, if you get a C in Organic in Harvard and get a C in CUNY, there is a different kind of C.


    I am not having any bias to MD either. i have many personal friends that are MD. What I am saying is many medical school policies have influence student's choices.

    I can tell you that osteopathic school do look at MCAT and GPA. However, they also look at different aspects of a student. From all my interviews, the interviewers focus on my character more than anything else. Especially the interview in AZCOM. I enjoyed that intervew so much. (I am in NOVA)

    The choice of MD or DO is very difficult to measure. Grades are important, but what come after that? When we reach to the point of residency interview, your board grades and school GPA can only path your way to the interview. The board committee are actually seeking for a person that can take responsibility and the maturity of the candidates. At that point, your grades is not in concern.

    If a med school, MD or DO, selects its students not just based on grades but also on other aspects of the students, that school is actually making good candidates for residency .

    My personal opinion is, do you want to open you eyes and see the wonder of osteopathic medicine, and willing to face the existing bias, and fight hard for your rights? If yes, then osteopathy is an excellent choice. If you can never take any type of prejuice, don't apply to any DO school for you will regret. If you have already made up your mind for carrying a MD behind your name, don't applying to any DO school.

    As for me, I have overcome all the above problems and I am really enjoying my medical education.

    Good luck and wish you can find our own path.

    [This message has been edited by Henry (edited 02-27-99).]
     
  21. JONM

    JONM Member

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    Henry,
    Thanks for your reply. I have taken what you have written to heart, as I do every reply to my questions. My concern is, however, in response to your warning that I should not go DO if my heart is set on MD. I think someone else gave the same warning previously. What gives you the impression that my heart is set on MD? I am not defending either philosophy within this discussion. I am merely asking for input. Perhaps those of you who are responding feel that my defense of those who are not defending themselves is a statement of my loyalty to the allopathic philosophy. I am not defending or supporting any traditional philosophy here. Much like the young freshman who joins a fraternity or sorority for identity or a sense of involvement, I feel that too many medical students think they are joining a fraternity when they accept a certain medical school's offer of admission and thus their tradition. I think the real truth is that every one of you would have accepted an offer to any school that wanted you (provided it was within your country etc...) As Jack Nicholson said in "As Good As It Gets": "sell crazy somewhere else." I don't buy this extreme loyalty to manipulative medicine that some of you purport. I think all of you want to be doctors, and you would accept at any place that accepts you.

    Please don't misconceive my opinion as an offensive or a defensive move. I respect all of your opinions and I am merely expressing mine as an individual in this great country that allows such voicing.


     
  22. Gregory Gulick

    Gregory Gulick Senior Member

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    JONM, your original question was asking if we were given a choice to go either route, would we choose to be a D.O. Your last statement, if I understand you correctly, now no longer deals with having a choice. That is, we would go M.D. or D.O. regardless of the program if only one school accepted us. I think that goes without saying!

    The fact of the matter is that there ARE people out there that make the decision to be a D.O. over being an M.D. but I imagine that the reverse happens more often. Personally (and I realize that I am an exception), I favored the D.O. route for the same reason my friends favored the M.D. route: most of the doctors I knew personally were of the osteopathic variety, most of my experience was in the osteopathic profession, a strong familiarity with an osteopathic medical school, and a sense of uneasiness about "going that other route." So if there is at least one exception in this country of someone who sincerely wanted to be a D.O. for many years (and there are plenty more), I think that would be me. And I'd be happy to e-mail you my curricular vitae which demonstrates this fact.

    And by the way, I think your "joining a fraternity" analogy is excellent.

    [​IMG]

     
  23. OldManDave

    OldManDave Fossil Bouncer Emeritus
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    While I have not had the luxury of extensive DO exposure, as Greg has, I do have the benefit of many years of allied health employment. Since I know you will ask, 14 years in various capacities ranging from dietary to pulmonary diagnostics, the last 9 have been as a respiratory therapist specializing in pediatric ICU/ER/Trauma. I have worked with many fabulous allopaths; and a couple of equally fabulous osteopaths. But, I must say, in a very generalized sense, that allopaths, esp the 'specialists,' tend not to see a patient but an ailment. Many, many times I have cared for a critically ill child and the specialists see only a set of lungs, a malfunctioning liver or a bum set of kidneys. The strength of the osteopaths is that they see a person...they treat a person...they treat the family and friends...all of this because they emphasize the 'human' portion of the equation.

    There will be many times in your med student/professional career where the most effective treatment you can give is to merely hold the hand and comfort a dying patient...or give a hug & a tissue to parents whose child has just lost their battle to live--->This my friend is where precious few excel...and it is a component of health care emphasized by osteopathic medicine.

    Initially, as a new grad therapist, I ascribed to the allopathic notions...you focus on the 'algorithm.' When you are young and green, you mimick those around you that you perceive to be successful...this is due to: 1) you are green and inexperienced and respect/admire the doctors & 2) in truth, you realize your years of training only taught you how to pass some damned board exam...you REALLY don't know how to be a nurse, resp therapist or yes--->a doctor!!

    In my years of experience, I have spent over half of those at teaching hospitals...not po-dunk back-woods hospitals either. I have been a primary therapist at 3 of the most pre-eminent children's medical centers in the country [Ark Children's, Dallas Children's & Cook Children's]. And believe me, numbers 1 and especially 2 permeate the residents. At first, the smart ones are scared---but quickly learn their resources. It is the ones who bury their own insecurities [in their knowledge] in arrogance and cockiness that eventually get burned or adopt that 'semi-dieity' complex that tarnishes the lay-persons perception of 'doctor.'

    One thing I have had burned into my psyche from many shifts that I will NEVER forget, shifts that re-shaped my life, is that above all else...your patients are not merely ailments or some extraneous Dx...IT IS A HUMAN BEING. It is someone's little girl, son, wife, dad or grandparent and that family is relying on you to do your damnest to fix whatever is wrong.

    They don't understand, nor could care less about the fabulous intricacies of the human biological puzzle. The vast majority of your patients and their families will have zero medical knowledge. They can only evaluate the care you provide on 3 planes: 1) did whomever survive, 2) do we feel as though we were treated with compassion and respect & 3) was the food good?

    Number 1 is generally the goal most focused on, especially as a young professional. Number 3, even God can't amend this one. Number 2 is where you can have the most profound and lasting effect on the patient, the family and your own soul.

    Whether or not you'll remember my ramblings is of little importance...because it is something that one day you will face. Choosing allopath or osteopath will not permit you to avoid it...I just feel that the training in osteopathic schools will better prepare me for that inevitability. I know I will be a technically excellent doctor...but at least as important, I want to be a caring & compassionate doctor.

    ------------------
    'Old Man Dave'


    [This message has been edited by OldManDave (edited 02-28-99).]
     
  24. JONM

    JONM Member

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    I'm looking forward to meeting you one day Dave. Thanks to both you and Greg for responding to my last statement. I think there are certainly many out there who DESIRE to be caring osteopathic physicians, but as Greg supported, they will go where they are accepted (DO or MD). Going to an allopathic school does not commit a person to a career of desensitized human emotion. Allopathic schools have just been caught up in the business side of science and medicine for too long, and it has caused them to neglect teaching their students more about treating the whole person. I think osteopathic schools will one day have these same problems when they ever grow to the size of some of the larger MD schools. I applied to DO schools because of the emphasis they place on CARING for people. I truly care for people and I am certain that a medical school's philosophy/curriculum, one way or the other, will not change how I feel.
     
  25. OldManDave

    OldManDave Fossil Bouncer Emeritus
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    Thanks Jon...you are prob correct in that most applicants, given only 1 choice would take that route over the hazards of re-applying, I would. The process is simply too subjective to risk it, no matter what you numbers are...

    Your capacity to care and be compassionate is something that comes from within. You can't be forced to learn it. The old concept of 'clinical disposition,' what it was called when I was a RT student, is fading in both osteopathic and allopathic arenas...thank God! The fact remains though, the allopaths are several generations behind & struggling to catch up, especially in the face of public demand and managed care.

    The irritating thing is...the allopaths are adopting traditionally osteopathic values and calling them 'innovative.' I find this to be very humorous!!




    ------------------
    'Old Man Dave'

     
  26. lala

    lala Junior Member

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    As a junior who is going to apply to both MD and DO schools and someone who has worked and volunteered in medicine and has several friend in MD and DO schools, I wish to comment as well. I don't think that there is much of a difference between DO and MD schools nowadays. OMM is in allopathic medicine in the form of physical therapy, massage therapy and it is also seen in chiropractic (in a different form). There are some who may claim that these are entirely different. I believe that the tenets of each discipline may have a different appearance but the infrastructure is the same, physical manipulation in order to affect a healthy lifestyle.

    The claim that DO's practice holistic medicine while MD's do not is no longer valid. We see that almost every school teaches its students to treat their patients as a whole. Personally, i find it incredulous that students are taught to see the body as a whole. anyone who has taken a basic course in physiology knows that all the body systems are interdependent on one another. the fact that the simple act of breathing depends upon the respiratory, the cardio,and the muscular system to name a few is evidence enought that the body is one big conglomerate of interconnected systems. it doesn't take a rocket scientist (or a doctor) to figure that out. In addition, we see that DO's are trying to become like MD's (they're just gobbling up the ACGME residencies. also, did you know that the head of pathology at the cleveland clinic is a DO. I wonder how often he uses OMM.) while MD's are becoming like DO's (the emphasis on the humanistic aspects of medicine (psycho, social) is incredibly strong esp. in schools like Creighton).

    While some previous posters have claimed that they think that MD students are elitist and competitive in terms of grade point averages and mcat scores, i have to say that from my volunteering and working with both types of med students, i have found that DO students are also elitist. the only difference in their claim is that they are more compassionate, holistic and supportive than MD students. i'm sorry but since when did DO schools begin offering courses like Compassion 402, Holism 321 and Caring 452?
    i don't think that anyone can make generalizations about the typical DO or MD student in any respect.

    so, what is my point? my point is that i don't think it matters which school you go to, MD or DO. if you want to learn OMM, then your choice is made, DO. if you don't think that you'll be using OMM in your pracice that much, then it doesn't really matter where you go or what degree that you use. why doesn't it matter where you go? because what you bring to medicine is more important than what's given to you. you can't learn compassion or holism. it's part of your own personal outlook on life and medicine that dictates whether or not you're a compassionate person, a holistic healer or a good doctor. if you're choosing DO or MD based on a mentor, ask yourself this question: do you admire your mentor because he's a MD/DO or do you admire him because he's caring, compassionate, softspoken, etc.? if i wanted to be what my mentor is, i'd have to go to ireland and get a MB, BS, BAO (bachelors of medicine, bachelors of surgery and bachelors of obstetrics). do you know what i'm going to do? stay here and apply to both my MD/DO schools and start trying to emulate my mentor.
     
  27. DOPhD student

    DOPhD student Senior Member

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    If I would have to do things over again. I would definitely choose an allopathic med school over an osteopathic. But that's my personal opinion. If you want to know why, read my other posts in which I outlined the basic rationalization for this. No matter where you end up, good luck to you.
     
  28. jasyn

    jasyn New Member

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    wow, this poor soul asked a pretty simple question.....

    i have spent the last two years calling as many different schools (MD & DO) for catalogs and other print info. so that i can make the most informed decision as possible.

    i would choose o.med. hands down for many of the same reasons others have put forth. (knowing full well that there are just as many jerk DOs as there are MDs and vice versa) i am married with two children, go to school full time and work two jobs.. my overall gpa (last i checked) was 3.2/4.0. i find that the overall philosophy of o.med reflects my own personal values and that they are less concerned with gpa and more concerned about what qualities one has that will make them a good physician. i should add, however, that in their lit. many allopathic schools are shifting their focus as far as admission criteria and even their teaching methods so that emphasis is placed more on the patient and less on a system. for what its worth......

    ------------------
    a wink's as good as a nod to a blind bat
     
  29. Henry

    Henry Senior Member

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    Hi Iala,

    I want to response to your posting. I understand that many MD schools is changing their way of teaching, but still there are many allopathic schools are still hang on to the old style of teaching. These are words that my brother-in-law told me. He is a MD and he said that what he was taught in schoold is so different to the real world. Indeed, the allopathic finally realize their old philosophy is out of date and no longer apply now.

    However, there are still many difference in the training between MD and DO. DO is not a MD + manipulation. There is a lot for me to learn still. Even though I am in my first year of medical school, I have seen how OMM can apply to many treatments. I can say that the DO training make us understand our body function and structure more. Ask a MD how can he/she treat a rib dysfunction, for example, and you will realize the difference.


    However, I have to admit that DO are not trained to be a research scientist. Many DO schools don't even have research facilities.

    I am not saying DO is superior, but I want to state that there are differencies while we share a lot of common ground
     
  30. Diane E

    Diane E Member

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    Henry, This statement is very very wrong. "However, I have to admit that DO are not trained to be a research scientist. Many DO schools don't even have research facilities. " Almost all of the schools have research facilities. The DO schools do not emphasize research in their catalogs because they have so many other unique facets to discuss. I am a researcher (14 years) and this is something I plan to pursue at UHS-COM, Kansas City. All the schools have
    some sort of research involvement--it may not be at the level of the Mayo Clinic or Hopkins but if you want to pursue research there are ample opportunities. I suggest you call DO schools you are interested in attending and get contact names of people to talk with. I know UNE-COM, ME and UHS-COM, Kansas City MO have many research projects ongoing due to PhD faculty that came from very prestigious research schools.

    In fact one of the AOA's (American Osteopathic Assoc.) goals is to encourage more research to be pursued by individual DO schools. There are many DO journals where you will find published research: Journal of American Osteopathic Assoc. and The DO. In addition DO's publish in many other journals. Furthermore, many DO's are researchers at prestigious facilities such as the Mayo Clinic (head of Anethesiology), Purdue, Hopkins, and even where I work at NIH. Research experience can be attained while first or second year, through an elective rotation in internship, or a fellowship (i.e. Mayo Clinic or NIH).

    I like the DO philosophy, I am a researcher and plan to continue my involvement in school. I found a way to do it and so can you, if you choose the DO route, all it takes is a contact person.

    Good luck
    [​IMG] Diane E


    ------------------


    [This message has been edited by Diane E (edited 03-05-99).]
     
  31. drusso

    Physician Moderator Emeritus Lifetime Donor Classifieds Approved

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    TCOM, MSU-COM, and New Jersey-COM offer DO/Ph.D. programs. Many other DO schools offer MS degrees in biomedical science or public health. Perhaps our friend DOPhD could comment on the training and preparation of osteopathic physicians/scientists...

    --dave
     
  32. Henry

    Henry Senior Member

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    Thanks Diane & Drusso. I am sorry that I have made a wrong statement. I appologize.

    [This message has been edited by Henry (edited 03-06-99).]

    [This message has been edited by Henry (edited 03-06-99).]
     
  33. Kansai

    Kansai Member

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    I will be attending UOMHS this fall and I just received a packet from the director of research encouraging participation in research projects. They listed a large number of ongoing studies and are more than willing to let students design their own projects. I get the feeling research is pretty important here...

    Stef
     
  34. DoWannaBe

    DoWannaBe Junior Member

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    You know, I just wanted to let you all know that there is not a single person who can really convince me about this topic: MD or DO.

    None of us ever been to MD and DO school, they say that DO schools emphasize more on caring.. but how can you tell? it looks like MD school does focus on research from the numbers of publications but it only does look so...

    I will be attending DO school this fall but if I can do this again, I wanna go MD school just because I will probably never go there.
     
  35. JONM

    JONM Member

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    Say what?
     
  36. Gregory Gulick

    Gregory Gulick Senior Member

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  37. DoWannaBe

    DoWannaBe Junior Member

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    I guess.. i put in a wrong comment in a wrong section.. sorry
    This section is reserved for medical students please post to premed section.
    Diane

    [This message has been edited by Diane E (edited 03-10-99).]
     
  38. mevannorden

    mevannorden Member

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    JONM
    you made a good point in a previous posting where you said "that making derogatory statements about other people or other philosophies is usually a sign that perhaps you are not confident about your own personality or beliefs." I think you hit the proverbial nail on the head. It seems that many DO's have an inferiority complex (my hometown doctor, a DO, doesn't like being known as a DO and rarely uses manipulation). We see where our profession has come from, and that at one point DO's were poorly trained compared to their MD counterparts. However, this is no longer the case, as we all know (or should know). The response to feeling inferior to allopathic medicine is to despise it. It's easy to find examples of allopathic medicine gone bad because most doctors we have known are MD's, so most bad examples we have seen were MD's. So, we judge the whole profession by the few who made a bad impression on us. This is unfortunate.

    In response to your question, I was accepted at an MD school (the University of Kansas Medical School) and two DO schools. I chose a DO school (UOMHS). The majority of DO's practice in a very similar manner to their MD counterparts, so your decision to attend a DO school (if you so choose) should be based on several things. 1) Do you want to use OMM in your practice? 2) Do you want early "Hands on" (literally) experience of working with people (I've found that having learned and practiced OMM made Physical Diagnosis easier, and will probably make me more comfortable performing procedures on patients later on.)?
    3) Does the MD school your considering understand and teach the "whole person" concept (I assume the DO school does)?
    4) If interested in research, which school's research programs best fit your desires.

    I'm sure there are other considerations, but I can't think of any more! I hope this helps. Either way you go, I'm sure you'll be ok.

    ------------------
    DO'02

     
  39. jdaasbo

    jdaasbo Senior Member

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    Here's my two cents,

    I am an MS-1 at CCOM. While I have never been to an MD school, I know people at most of the other Chicago area schools and at many other MD programs around the country.

    Some differences and similarities I see are these:

    1)Like many MD schools, almost all of our basic science faculty are Ph.D.s. Much of the time it is hard to see how see how our Physio or Biochem classes might be different from our MD counterpart's. Perhaps they aren't?
    2)Anatomy seems to be an exception to number one. We do a rather full 20 weeks (270 hours) of dissection. Having talked to people at Northwestern, University of Illinois and Loyola, it seems that our program is much greater in both length and depth of material. It also seems that we emphasize certain "osteopathic" body systems a lot more. For example, we studied in great detail the fascia of the different regions and how and where they connect. All of the MD 1st years I have talked to cut right through the stuff without a second thought. Perhaps this is ironic, but our Anatomy course director is an MD (but we don't hold it against him!).
    3)Having attended a large and somewhat well known university for undergrad and being familiar with their medical program, I feel it is safe to say that our faculty at CCOM differ from "your average MD school" it this way: They all WANT TO TEACH and they make it a priority. Many, if not all of them are involved in research, but when they lecture you don't get that sense of condescention that you get when your prog would rather be filling test-tubes.

    Some other comments:

    The argument that DO's who flock to ACGME residencies loose their osteopathic identity is B.S. I shadow a DO anesthesiologist who did his residency at Northwestern. He works in a private pain management clinic at perhaps the best address in Chicago. He does OMT on his patients. We have several faculty in our OM department who did allopathic residencies (physiatry at Rush, Peds with a neonatology fellowship at Loyola, etc.) And once again Osteopathy does not equall OMT. There is much much more to it.

    Sorry for my verbosity

    Johan Aasbo
    MS-1 CCOM

     
  40. Henry

    Henry Senior Member

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    jdaasbo

    You got a good point. Osteopathic medicine is not just OMT. I am planning to get into an allopathic residency because of the quality of that particular program is excellent. However, I intended to keep praticing OMT and applying it in my career.
     
  41. summerb

    summerb Member

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    Jdaasbo brought up an issue about the difference in faculty at DO schools and MD schools, and I wanted to share something a med school professor told me at one of my interviews. But first let me say that i have no personal experience in this, so just take it as me sharing a little something that I've heard.
    I don't remember his name, but he was the biochem professor at KCOM and he'd been working there for about 10 years. He had taught for an MD school for about 15 years before coming to Kirksville. He said that when he started his job at the MD school (I believe it was the University of Illinois, but I can't be certain) he was told that he should arrive to class the moment it started and leave the instant it was over, because if a student found out where his office was, he would never get any research done. He got very used to this teaching technique and was extremely surprised when he got to KCOM that the professors told him to stop running away from his students. He had thought that the idea of DO schools being much more student oriented was just an advertising scheme and not to be taken seriously, so was taken aback when he was approached and told that they really expected him to be available to his students. The time he spends doing research has gone down, but now he says he much prefers teaching in a place where student interaction is encouraged. The down side for him is that he *does* miss his research time.
    Professor availability is a very good quality if you are the kind of student that likes to feel you can approach professors, but it's not necessarily important for people who are much more comfortable doing all their studying on their own. And if you're really interested in research, then it will probably be to your benefit to surround yourself with professors that are able to spend a lot of time in that field.
    MD or Do... it really doesn't make a difference in many ways. In terms of creating a more caring doctor, that has very little to do with the kind of school you go to. As stated earlier, that's up to the individual. I think the biggest difference is the learning environment. Professors at DO schools certainly don't wonder the halls looking for people to ask them questions, for they do research as well, but they are more available overall than professors at MD schools. MD school professors are more likely to have more to offer to the student interested in oncology or infectious diseases because of their focus on research.
    There are of course many other factors one must consider when choosing MD or DO, but this was one of the most important in my personal decision.
     
  42. drusso

    Physician Moderator Emeritus Lifetime Donor Classifieds Approved

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    You wrote:

    Professors at DO schools certainly don't wonder the halls looking for people to ask them questions, for they do research as well, but they are more available overall than professors at MD schools.

    ***Actually at TCOM we have a physiology prof who is known to do this the night before exams over sections he has lectured on. Also, I was taken by surprise a few times by Gross Anatomy profs in the lab during unscheduled times.
     
  43. Henry

    Henry Senior Member

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    Hi Summerb

    I do feel that prof in my school have more time for student. I have compared the time I have spend with the teacher in NOVA and the time I can locate my teacher both in my undergrad and grad college. Very often, I can find my professors here in NOVA and spend time going over class material.

    In additon, our dean also stress that the school have an open door policy so that teachers will make time available to the student.
     
  44. Deb

    Deb Senior Member

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    Could we PLEASE stop beating this poor, old dead horse? Those who CHOOSE
    osteopathy have their reasons, as do those who CHOOSE allopathy. It is a
    personal decision. I might add that fellow premeds are probably the worst
    people to go to for advice on this issue and 1st and 2nd yr students aren't
    much better. If you want to know what it's like to be a DO, then you should
    talk to DOs, NOT medical students (MD or DO).
     
  45. medstudentNY

    medstudentNY Junior Member

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    Don't fool yourself into thinking that in actual practice there is much "philosophical" difference between MDs and DOs; it is difficult to tell them apart. I would have chosen MD first, but was happy with DO just the same. In the end, in today's world, the letter (M or O) doesnt matter. W/ DO, you learn OMT, a plus,w/ MD, everyone knows youre a doctor, a plus. Its a trade off. The philosophy looks nice on paper, but compare osteopathic and allopathic hospitals and tell me you see a difference. Most DO hospitals dont even have OMT service! There is no such thing as osteopathic oxygen and Im sorry to say that I see difference w/o distinction. Unless you practice OMT, its the same thing. Just be the best doc you can be.
     
  46. Diane E

    Diane E Member

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    Deb has a good point, you should talk to an actual practicing DO/MD.
    May I also suggest volunteering with each.
    Diane
     
  47. rob2002

    rob2002 Junior Member

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    There is no difference between DOs and MDs

    An osteopathic surgeon is just as arrogant as an allopathic surgeron.

    An allopathic primary care physician is just as compassionate as an osteopathic.

    The only difference is we learn OMT, which less than 5% of practicing DO's actually use.

    Neither profession is better than the other. They are simply the same thing.
     
  48. drusso

    Physician Moderator Emeritus Lifetime Donor Classifieds Approved

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    I love how this "only 5% of DO's use OMT" statistic gets misquoted over and over again. It has now officially become a factoid in the way "people only use 10% of their brains" has become a factoid.

    Here's the original reported finding by Shirley Johnson at MSU-COM in her survey of 2000 osteopathic family physicians, "Only 6% of the respondents treated more than 50% of their patients with OMT, and nearly one third used OMT on less than 5% of their patients." Now think about that for a minute...Read it again slowly. What's missing from this finding? I'll give you a hint: What is the base-rate for conditions presenting to a [family practice] DO for which OMT is indicated? It is *not* the actual percentage of DO's using OMT that is meaningful, rather it is the ratio of conditions for which OMT is indicated to actual administration of OMT that help us understand the true practice patterns.

    Further, Johnson goes on to identify the barriers to OMT use. She discovers, "Thirty-eight percent of the variance regarding OMT use was attributed to two factors: barriers to use, and OMT protocol used. Perceptions by physicians of insufficient OMT training were not predictive of decreased use of OMT. Significantly more OMT was used in solo practice as opposed to other settings."

    Similarly, if you believe that we use only 10% of our brains, try stroking out the other 90% and tell me what happens.

    --dave

    [This message has been edited by drusso (edited April 17, 1999).]
     
  49. auburnO5

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    delete
     
    #47 auburnO5, Sep 29, 2010
    Last edited: Sep 29, 2010
  50. Rollo

    Rollo Renowned Wolf

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    Reviving 11 year old thread?
     

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