MD or DO?

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Rsrch_2_Med

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I'm currently a full-time Research Associate at a Biotech company but slowly becoming jaded about going into Grad School. I have always loved working with people and have always considered Med School for as long as I can remember.

I'm prepping for the August MCAT and have started looking into schools (hopefully entering Fall '08). Can anyone out there give me some advice regarding the benefits of MD vs. DO. I've gotten some random, half-assed suggestions from some acquaintances that I should shoot for the MD program, but apply for DO as a backup. I guess I don't know enough about DOs to really fully agree. What do you all think?
 
Rsrch_2_Med said:
I'm currently a full-time Research Associate at a Biotech company but slowly becoming jaded about going into Grad School. I have always loved working with people and have always considered Med School for as long as I can remember.

I'm prepping for the August MCAT and have started looking into schools (hopefully entering Fall '08). Can anyone out there give me some advice regarding the benefits of MD vs. DO. I've gotten some random, half-assed suggestions from some acquaintances that I should shoot for the MD program, but apply for DO as a backup. I guess I don't know enough about DOs to really fully agree. What do you all think?
I'm in D.O. school. To be honest unless you are considering Em, Fm, Im, Obgyn, Peds, or Ortho(the D.O. programs) then go M.D. There are D.O. residencies for things like Derm and Rads but are crazy competetive, just like in the allo world. Most D.O.'s go into primary care medicine, those being what I listed above. I plan on Em, so I had no problem with going D.O. b/c there are plenty of D.O. em programs and you can find a D.O. in almost every allo program in the country.
 
^^Do you know if DO's can go into pathology residencies easily?
 
MedicineNutt said:
^^Do you know if DO's can go into pathology residencies easily?[/QUOT
Yes, there are D.O. pathologist
 
I just visited the Pre-DO thread and there was a sticky there talking about MD v. DO flame wars not being tolerated here... Just want to clarify that this thread is not for that purpose. I simply am an inquiring mind.
 
Look the easiest most honest answer anyone can give you about DO vs MD is this...and trust me the DO people will hate me for it but they get away with railing on MDs all day on this forum and the fact of the matter is the stats back this up. Pre-MD is much tougher than pre-DO. yes you have to take the same classes and such, but if you want to go MD you will most certainly need a higher GPA and a higher MCAT in addition to great ECsf thats just how it is. Both paths are competive MD is just the more competive likely because its the status quo path to becoming a physician and it is what most people aim for. Don't, however, think this means DO is a back-up because those schools are still very difficult to get accepted to. Once you are in the curriculum is pretty much the same. In addition DO's will take osteopathic manipulative medicine (OMM), the jury is really out on how useful and how used this practice is, but keep in mind some smart DO's have found ways to bill for OMM and thus increase their intake a bit. This ultimately will lead to DO's saying they are everything MDs are and more, believe what you want. The only difference in education is that very few (I can't think of one actually) osteopathic schools have their own academic medical center, which a lot of allopathic schools do this results in you moving all over for M3 and M4. This could be an advantage or a disadvantage depending on who you are. Also DO schools have much smaller faculty numbers and research budgets. Once again it won't matter all that much, but if you love research DO just isn't the best option for you. So the education is very similar. When you get out a lot of DO's take the COMLEX and the USMLE, MDs take the USMLE. Both apply to whatever match they want. In general MDs are slightly more successful in the match than DO's there is a stat thing floating around comparing MD to DO to foriegn MD in terms of how successful they are in the match so if it interests you look it up. Facts are always much better than opinion. After that both MDs and DOs are physicians they practice together and the degree difference is really not a big deal. Now sit back and watch the war I've just started. Hopefully it won't happen, but of course it will.
 
doesnt matter, it really depends on the person...if he/she wants to succeed as a DO or MD then thats what matters!!! just forget this DO vs MD crap...it's not even worth discussin...they're both types doctors servin mankind!!!

stats dont make up a person rather stats just causes controversy
 
Things to consider when making this important decision:

1. Competitiveness - how competitive of an applicant are you in terms of just raw numbers? If your numbers are a bit low (25-28 MCAT, 3.0-3.4 GPA) you may want to save a bunch of application money and apply to DO schools only.

2. Specialty interest. If you want to be an IM doc, or family practice - a DO degree will serve you just as well. If you want to have the option of later matching into something competitive, you might need the MD. Who knows what will be the "hot" specialty in 4 years.

3. Money. It is expensive to apply. It is expensive to go. Which will save you money both in the short term, and in the long term?

4. International experience. If you have any desire to go to other countries and practice, you need that MD. Some countries don't recognize the DO.

5. Prestige. Sorry to state the obvious, but to SOME people this is important. As a DO, you will be explaining to many of your patients what kind of a doctor you are (my mom asked her DO cardiologist why a bone doctor was taking care of her heart).

6. Schools. Do you like the DO schools? Do you like the MD schools? Where do you want to be for four years?

7. Caribbean vs. DO. Many different opinions on this - but it is something to consider if considering DO.

Just a few thoughts.
 
OP...its not your fault, but its inevitable that a thread about this topic will disintegrate into a heaping pile of dung pretty quickly....always happens w/ this topic... Anyway, here are few good links for you to check out regarding what exactly a DO is and the whole MD/DO thing. After you check these out and wade through the bull that people will be spouting off on this thread (both sides are usually at fault in the arguments on here..), hopefully you will have a clearer picture of the situation.

http://www.bls.gov/oco/ocos074.htm
http://www.studentdoctor.net/do/mdordo.asp
http://www.studentdoctor.net/do/about.asp
http://www.osteopathic.org/index.cfm?PageID=ost_main
 
As a current DO student, I will say that your post actually isn't that inflammatory. There are a few things that I disagree with, but the under-tone and most main points are pretty dead-on.


IHEARTLAMP said:
Look the easiest most honest answer anyone can give you about DO vs MD is this...and trust me the DO people will hate me for it but they get away with railing on MDs all day on this forum and the fact of the matter is the stats back this up. Pre-MD is much tougher than pre-DO. yes you have to take the same classes and such, but if you want to go MD you will most certainly need a higher GPA and a higher MCAT in addition to great ECsf thats just how it is. Both paths are competive MD is just the more competive likely because its the status quo path to becoming a physician and it is what most people aim for. Don't, however, think this means DO is a back-up because those schools are still very difficult to get accepted to. Once you are in the curriculum is pretty much the same.

I agree with your overall point (DO avg: 3.43/25, MD:~3.6/30). Those are the pure facts, but remember that those numbers mean nothing and are essentially erased when one begins med school (and may account for having a few extra beers during undergrad..jk). In the end, as long as one can pass their boards and become board certified, their number's don't mean anything.

In addition DO's will take osteopathic manipulative medicine (OMM), the jury is really out on how useful and how used this practice is, but keep in mind some smart DO's have found ways to bill for OMM and thus increase their intake a bit. This ultimately will lead to DO's saying they are everything MDs are and more, believe what you want.

Some people go to DO schools specifically for OMM techniques and the musculoskeletal education. Some people go to DO schools and are indifferent towards it. Some people go and despise it. To each his/her own. If you are interested in primary care, Sports Medicine or PM&R it can be a big plus. You are also right about the money. OMM specialists and other DO's who do a lot of it have huge waiting lists for appointments and make some solid $$...patients love the stuff. Yes, enough conclusive research isn't out yet, but that is a huge part of AOA and other orgs. agendas these days and there are big things on the horizon. For now, the limited amount of good research available looks promising and backs up the ton of anecdotal evidence (cranial exluded..). Don't wanna get into a big discussion on this topic here....for another time...

The only difference in education is that very few (I can't think of one actually) osteopathic schools have their own academic medical center, which a lot of allopathic schools do this results in you moving all over for M3 and M4. This could be an advantage or a disadvantage depending on who you are.

NJ has one attached and I think there are a few more. Regardless, the travelling issue is only a potential problem at a few schools. I don't have to go very far at all for my rotations here in Philly. But yes, I agree that some people may like to have it right on campus.

Also DO schools have much smaller faculty numbers and research budgets. Once again it won't matter all that much, but if you love research DO just isn't the best option for you.

I definitely agree with the above. While DO schools have plenty of faculty to teach you all the necessary pre-clinical and clinical skills, the research departments and funding at most DO schools are not comparable to that of large academic centers. There are a few DO schools that are climbing the ladder here, but if research is definitely your thing, you will be most likely better off at an MD school.

So the education is very similar. When you get out a lot of DO's take the COMLEX and the USMLE, MDs take the USMLE. Both apply to whatever match they want. In general MDs are slightly more successful in the match than DO's there is a stat thing floating around comparing MD to DO to foriegn MD in terms of how successful they are in the match so if it interests you look it up. Facts are always much better than opinion.

DO's are only required to take the COMLEX for licensure, but an increasing percentage are taking the USMLE to "help level the playing field" and make comparisons of candidates easier for residencies (about half of DO's apply to MD residencies). DO's on the whole match just fine into most specialties. There are still a few where bias exists, namely plastics, derm and surgery. But keep in mind that ther are DO residences for those (albeit limited) and that it is a brutally competative process for MD's in those fields too.

After that both MDs and DOs are physicians they practice together and the degree difference is really not a big deal. Now sit back and watch the war I've just started. Hopefully it won't happen, but of course it will.

agreed....hopefully this won't turn out so bad....and hopefully my insanely long post put some realistic perspective on this and someone learned something......though I doubt it....
 
I got into both schools with low stats, my link at the bottom can attest to that. My father, uncle, and grandfather all went to DO school, and frankly, even though my Dad says he doesnt care, I still feel a little guilty about going to MD school. My Dad is an FP, but he is damn good at what he does. In my community he is considered the best diagnostician, hands down. When cases cant be solved MD or DO, they get his opinion and he usually takes over the admitted case. I am not trying to brag on my Dad, but I can remember countless times as a kid where he was consulted on many a case he had nothing to do with prior.

So this all leaves me to believe that no matter what the letters, you are as good a doctor as how much you put into it. I choose MD school because it was close to my hometown and was much cheaper. I am from Texas and so most schools recruited me for my political expertise (see my MD Applicant profile). If you truly want to be a doctor in the US that makes a difference in peoples lives both routes will suffice. As a DO it may be more difficult to get some specialties, but as MD's those specialties are also very hard to get so for the most part dont let that discourage you from DO. My father is well respected by all of his peers and the community, and he graduated from kirksville in 1973.

All of you take this statement to heart, I was hanging out in the ER once watching cases recently while my Dad was making rounds and an old ER nurse came up to me and said "I just wanted to tell you that your Dad saved my daughters life, she came into the ER when she was 16 and was in a coma, the attending thought she had a drug overdose without a tox screen, but I called your Dad late that night and he came to the hospital on a moments notice (my Dad delivered this Girl many a moon ago) he didnt buy the overdose bit and got her an ambulance to the hospital in Austin, he rode with her up to Austin in the Ambulance" (the closest neurology facility, this was the eighties) they did some tests and found a hematoma putting pressure on her brain and he oversaw all of the procedures that followed. "If your Dad had not come in and really cared about her I would not be a Grandmother today because my daughter would not have made it through the night with treatment for a drug overdose. Everyday I still thank your father for being such a caring and great doctor."

If your concerned about MD or DO I hope this story sheds a little light. I have many more with the same impact on others lives my father has had. He delivered over 1000 babies and has saved countless lives as a DO, people have grandchildren as a result of his care. This is the main reason I have to be a doctor. I cant imagine not doing these sort of good deeds for the people in my community with or without pay (my dad has never sent anyone to collections and he has a private practice). So if your getting into medicine to make a lasting impact with the people in your community it does matter MD or DO. I hope this helps shed some light on the matter.
 
Rsrch_2_Med said:
I just visited the Pre-DO thread and there was a sticky there talking about MD v. DO flame wars not being tolerated here... Just want to clarify that this thread is not for that purpose. I simply am an inquiring mind.

Flame wars start because folks in each camp have issues with some of the statements that will surely be said by those in the other camp. Saying flame wars "won't be tolerated" wont get you off the hook for playing with matches in a tub of gasoline. 😡
 
Holistic said:
I got into both schools with low stats, my link at the bottom can attest to that. My father, uncle, and grandfather all went to DO school, and frankly, even though my Dad says he doesnt care, I still feel a little guilty about going to MD school. My Dad is an FP, but he is damn good at what he does. In my community he is considered the best diagnostician, hands down. When cases cant be solved MD or DO, they get his opinion and he usually takes over the admitted case. I am not trying to brag on my Dad, but I can remember countless times as a kid where he was consulted on many a case he had nothing to do with prior.

So this all leaves me to believe that no matter what the letters, you are as good a doctor as how much you put into it. I choose MD school because it was close to my hometown and was much cheaper. I am from Texas and so most schools recruited me for my political expertise (see my MD Applicant profile). If you truly want to be a doctor in the US that makes a difference in peoples lives both routes will suffice. As a DO it may be more difficult to get some specialties, but as MD's those specialties are also very hard to get so for the most part dont let that discourage you from DO. My father is well respected by all of his peers and the community, and he graduated from kirksville in 1973.

All of you take this statement to heart, I was hanging out in the ER once watching cases recently while my Dad was making rounds and an old ER nurse came up to me and said "I just wanted to tell you that your Dad saved my daughters life, she came into the ER when she was 16 and was in a coma, the attending thought she had a drug overdose without a tox screen, but I called your Dad late that night and he came to the hospital on a moments notice (my Dad delivered this Girl many a moon ago) he didnt buy the overdose bit and got her an ambulance to the hospital in Austin, he rode with her up to Austin in the Ambulance" (the closest neurology facility, this was the eighties) they did some tests and found a hematoma putting pressure on her brain and he oversaw all of the procedures that followed. "If your Dad had not come in and really cared about her I would not be a Grandmother today because my daughter would not have made it through the night with treatment for a drug overdose. Everyday I still thank your father for being such a caring and great doctor."

If your concerned about MD or DO I hope this story sheds a little light. I have many more with the same impact on others lives my father has had. He delivered over 1000 babies and has saved countless lives as a DO, people have grandchildren as a result of his care. This is the main reason I have to be a doctor. I cant imagine not doing these sort of good deeds for the people in my community with or without pay (my dad has never sent anyone to collections and he has a private practice). So if your getting into medicine to make a lasting impact with the people in your community it does matter MD or DO. I hope this helps shed some light on the matter.




Excellent post, holistic. The empathy that your father shows as a physician is extremely inspiring to all of us, md or do students. I don't know how everyone else is on this forum, but when i see a doctor or someone tells me they're a doctor, I get this overwhelming amount of respect for that person. Do I think about where this person got his/her degree? NO, i think about how competent this person is as a PHYSICIAN.

I was fortunate enough to receive acceptance to both md and do and will most likely go do simply because of the fact that d.o. schools have seemed to be much more humble at what they do and focus entirely upon their students. Yes, i completely agree with the above statements that d.o. schools don't have as many faculty members as md's do, but keep in mind many of the profs at allopaths are primarily focused on research. The professors at these d.o. schools are focused on YOU as a medical student.

I don't necessarily agree with the above statements that "if you want to go into primary care disciplines then d.o. would be fine but if you want a "more competitive" specialties" then go allopathic. I think that this statement is completely extreme and does not offer sufficient support. I know a nuerosurgeon that is a d.o. that operated on my friend's mother;the chief of radiation oncology at the Medical University of Ohio is a d.o. (rad onc., is traditionally very competitive, as you may know); the chief of pediatric nuerosurgery at texas is a d.o. Yes, it is hard to get these residencies as a d.o., but i would say it is equally difficult for an md. My best friend's father is the residency director of pediatric surgery at a very prestigious hospital and told me that he looks at board scores first and not where/ what the degree has come from. Nonetheless, keep in mind that I am not a medical student and my words of "wisdom" above come from doctors and medical professionals that i have spoken with. furthermore, don't base your judgements based on what people in the "pre-" forums tell you but what people in the profession are encountering on a daily basis.

just my .02
 
allendo said:
I'm in D.O. school. To be honest unless you are considering Em, Fm, Im, Obgyn, Peds, or Ortho(the D.O. programs) then go M.D. There are D.O. residencies for things like Derm and Rads but are crazy competetive, just like in the allo world. Most D.O.'s go into primary care medicine, those being what I listed above. I plan on Em, so I had no problem with going D.O. b/c there are plenty of D.O. em programs and you can find a D.O. in almost every allo program in the country.
Here is a 2006 EM resident at Wash U from KCOM. FYI http://emed.wustl.edu/emed/emed.nsf/C/A8EF92D209532B6586256C270058E159?OpenDocument.
 
Even if you do apply to DO programs for backup, they like that you have a letter of rec from a DO, which naturally means that you should shadow one. In doing that, you'll be able to get some first hand exposure to what being a DO is all about, and ways in which it can be different from MD. Because there is a significant one, which is the osteopathic manipulative medicine (OMM). You might like the osteopathic philosophy better, who knows? Instead of listening to people saying DO is better or MD is better, just know that neither is better or worse, they very different ways of practicing medicine...
 
JulioFly said:
Even if you do apply to DO programs for backup, they like that you have a letter of rec from a DO, which naturally means that you should shadow one. In doing that, you'll be able to get some first hand exposure to what being a DO is all about, and ways in which it can be different from MD. Because there is a significant one, which is the osteopathic manipulative medicine (OMM). You might like the osteopathic philosophy better, who knows? Instead of listening to people saying DO is better or MD is better, just know that neither is better or worse, they very different ways of practicing medicine...

While I do fully understand what you are saying, unless you shadow an OMM specialist or a DO FP/PM&R/Sports Med, etc you probably won't see any difference in the way things are done (ie I don't think your DO urologist that you are shadowing will be doing any "manipulating"....) I don't mean to be condescending, but comments like that are just plain false. Even though I am a DO student, it is just not a true statement to say that you will always see a difference in the way medicine in practiced w/ either degree.
 
Thank you very much for your thoughts and sharing your wonderful story. I do agree that whatever route one takes to become a doctor, what matters is one's motivation to help others.




Holistic said:
I got into both schools with low stats, my link at the bottom can attest to that. My father, uncle, and grandfather all went to DO school, and frankly, even though my Dad says he doesnt care, I still feel a little guilty about going to MD school. My Dad is an FP, but he is damn good at what he does. In my community he is considered the best diagnostician, hands down. When cases cant be solved MD or DO, they get his opinion and he usually takes over the admitted case. I am not trying to brag on my Dad, but I can remember countless times as a kid where he was consulted on many a case he had nothing to do with prior.

So this all leaves me to believe that no matter what the letters, you are as good a doctor as how much you put into it. I choose MD school because it was close to my hometown and was much cheaper. I am from Texas and so most schools recruited me for my political expertise (see my MD Applicant profile). If you truly want to be a doctor in the US that makes a difference in peoples lives both routes will suffice. As a DO it may be more difficult to get some specialties, but as MD's those specialties are also very hard to get so for the most part dont let that discourage you from DO. My father is well respected by all of his peers and the community, and he graduated from kirksville in 1973.

All of you take this statement to heart, I was hanging out in the ER once watching cases recently while my Dad was making rounds and an old ER nurse came up to me and said "I just wanted to tell you that your Dad saved my daughters life, she came into the ER when she was 16 and was in a coma, the attending thought she had a drug overdose without a tox screen, but I called your Dad late that night and he came to the hospital on a moments notice (my Dad delivered this Girl many a moon ago) he didnt buy the overdose bit and got her an ambulance to the hospital in Austin, he rode with her up to Austin in the Ambulance" (the closest neurology facility, this was the eighties) they did some tests and found a hematoma putting pressure on her brain and he oversaw all of the procedures that followed. "If your Dad had not come in and really cared about her I would not be a Grandmother today because my daughter would not have made it through the night with treatment for a drug overdose. Everyday I still thank your father for being such a caring and great doctor."

If your concerned about MD or DO I hope this story sheds a little light. I have many more with the same impact on others lives my father has had. He delivered over 1000 babies and has saved countless lives as a DO, people have grandchildren as a result of his care. This is the main reason I have to be a doctor. I cant imagine not doing these sort of good deeds for the people in my community with or without pay (my dad has never sent anyone to collections and he has a private practice). So if your getting into medicine to make a lasting impact with the people in your community it does matter MD or DO. I hope this helps shed some light on the matter.
 
Thanks for everyone's opinion. I think at this point I can go any route... I do agree with a lot of the DOs philosophies the more I read about them. But I do think that if I were to return to research, MD might be the better option for me as well. I think both DOs and MDs are brilliant based on the links posted by some of you here. Again thanks! 👍
 
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