nighthawk3

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I know the usual path to oral surgery is getting a DDS and then doing a residency program where you usually pick up an MD, but is it possible to do the reverse and go from an MD to DDS/oral surgery?
 

VPDcurt

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I think you can get an MD and then apply to an oral and maxillo-facial residency. Don't quote me on any of this though.
 

lakersfan

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I actually dont think this is possible. I'm gonna be an MSII this year and was one of those people who was actually considering dentistry as an alternative to medicine. I asked one of my professors at school who is an OMFS and she told me that you have to go get the DDS so that means going to dental school for 4 years and then applying for an OMFS residency. It really sucks since DDS students just have to do 2 years of med school adn then their OMFS residency. Med students who decide they want to OMFS basically have to go back and do everything again...which in my opinion is utterly ridiculous.
 
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MossPoh

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I have heard of a rare occassion in the dental rooms or something of a md that was able to work out an omfs deal..He had to take pretty much all the dental stuff except for the ones that could match up for sciences or something but was able to do it in 2 or 3 years. I don't know the details but yea....
 

MD-To Be

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nighthawk3 said:
I know the usual path to oral surgery is getting a DDS and then doing a residency program where you usually pick up an MD, but is it possible to do the reverse and go from an MD to DDS/oral surgery?

If you are interested in oral-surgery Case Western Reserve University offers a dual MD/DMD 5 year degree program which is supposed to allow one to enter into oral surgery with a background in medicine and all the rights and privlidges of a physician. The website is: http://dental.case.edu/dmdmd/

A word of caution, this is a highly selective school for either the MD or DMD degree so you can imagine how much more selective it would be to get into a MD/DMD program.
 

HTD

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We had a strong OMFS dual degree (DDS applied and left with MD and OMFS training) program where I trained. I always joked that I wanted to do a year with them so I could do 3rd molars and retire young. In general, very likeable, capable people. I would try this in the dentistry thread. I was told that there are a few programs that take MD's.

Good Luck!
 

dtdds

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I know several OMFS programs that accept MD candidates. For instance U Michigan, U louisiville, U Alabama. These are 6-year programs which include 3 year of dental school to get your DDS.
 

bsmcga0

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there is a guy at my school who just finished D1 after completing a general surgery rotation, you have to complete dental school before going into OMFS
 

Yellowman

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nighthawk3 said:
Pretty ironic that I'm at Case for undergrad!
nighthawk, I am an OMFS resident at Case. just finished my pgy 1 and doing my MS III clerkships. Maybe you are in my class (2008?). Anyway, going MD then to DDS is possible but not easy. Historically, this has happened, but this route of becoming OMFS is more difficult then DDS --> MD because of the fact that you have to learn 'dentistry' (ie: cutting preps, filling teeth etc). Not very useful to OMFS but you need to know this stuff to pass dental boards, as OMFS is a dental specialty, and thus you need to be licensed in dentistry to bill dental insurance. If you are truly serious, it may not be a bad idea to call up different program directors around the country to see what the situation is. Every program is different, and some program directors are more receptive to the idea of MD-->DDS, then others. I would also consider talking to Dr. Goldberg, who is the an OMFS and is also the dean of dental school. He is a really cool guy, and he has managed to maintain a good relationship with teh medical school. You can also talk to Dr. Quereshy, who is the CWRU OMFS program director. From what I understand, there was a MD grad from case going thru dental school to become OMFS, but got cold feet and dropped out at the last minute. Feel free to PM me for more questions....or go visit www.aaoms.org for info
 

Yellowman

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lakersfan said:
I actually dont think this is possible. I'm gonna be an MSII this year and was one of those people who was actually considering dentistry as an alternative to medicine. I asked one of my professors at school who is an OMFS and she told me that you have to go get the DDS so that means going to dental school for 4 years and then applying for an OMFS residency. It really sucks since DDS students just have to do 2 years of med school adn then their OMFS residency. Med students who decide they want to OMFS basically have to go back and do everything again...which in my opinion is utterly ridiculous.
At case, OMFS guys go through 2.5 yrs of med school. The reason this is possible is because we pass our Step I prior to starting residency, right after we graduate from dental school. So the medical school essentially gives us credit for basic science classes we took in dental school by virtue of passing Step I. The problem with MD --> DDS is that the first 2 yrs of dental school is pre-clinical work, where you learn about operative dentistry on simulators and such, and last 2 yrs are spent on doing these procedures on actual pt. Thus yrs 3 - 4 of dental school is essentially a residency for MD guys. You do come out of dental school capable of seeing pts right away. Again, depending on dental school and OMFS program directors, there are short cuts that can be arranged, so the MD applicant doesn't have to go through all the BS....as the academic aspect of dental school will be just review for someone who graduated from med school...

I think I have too much free time at this OB rotation...it's boring.... :thumbdown:
 

ajmacgregor

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lakersfan said:
It really sucks since DDS students just have to do 2 years of med school adn then their OMFS residency. Med students who decide they want to OMFS basically have to go back and do everything again...which in my opinion is utterly ridiculous.
Actually, it really isn't that ridiculous. Dental students at most (if not all) dental schools learn the same basic science content (anatomy, physiology, histology, biochemistry, immunology, genetics, development, microbiology, system pathophysiology, neuroscience, biostats/epi, etc.) as is covered in the first two-years of medical school. However, aside from head and neck anatomy, medical students learn ZERO about dentistry during their first two years.
 

androman

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ajmacgregor said:
Actually, it really isn't that ridiculous. Dental students at most (if not all) dental schools learn the same basic science content (anatomy, physiology, histology, biochemistry, immunology, genetics, development, microbiology, system pathophysiology, neuroscience, biostats/epi, etc.) as is covered in the first two-years of medical school. However, aside from head and neck anatomy, medical students learn ZERO about dentistry during their first two years.
I just finished my first year in med school. My roomate is a 3rd year dental student at the same institution. True he did take a lot of the same classes as me in his first year. But in my opinion his classes/exams were just dumbed down versions of what the med students did. I reviewed the notes and old exams he saved. I wish my exams were as easy as his were. Also how hard can it be to learn how to do some basic dental lab work? Please.... I agree it is ridiculous!
 

gary_ruska

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androman said:
Also how hard can it be to learn how to do some basic dental lab work?
GR thinks that you should try to do some dental labwork before running your yap about how easy it is. In fact, GR thinks that you should practice waxing up a bridge for tooth # 7-8-9 or setting an immediate denture with bilateral balanced occlusion on a knife-edged edentulous mandibular ridge.
 
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nighthawk3

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Yellowman, thanks for the advice. I'm graduating from Case undergard this year and have applied for the 2007 MD cycle. I do not like the idea of having research forced on me, so I didn't apply to Case for med school. I appreciate your input as far as MD -> DDS.

To the guy above: big words must mean hard material, right?
 

gary_ruska

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nighthawk3 said:
To the guy above: big words must mean hard material, right?
GR here,
Do you know how to do any of those things? The point isn't about the words - it's about someone claiming "how hard can it be to do dental labwork" without ever having done it...The words aren't meant to be impressive, there just isn't another way to say "waxup a bridge" or specify how denture teeth should be setup...
 

Dr.McNinja

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I'll get right on that when you remove his appendix using a 2 foot fork.
And treat his fluid balance problem secondary to his infection.
And manage his heart arrhythmia.
And his diabetes.
And his hypertension.

And note that I am not saying that dental work is easier than medicine, just that it is different. Of course I can't fix teeth, that's not what I went to school for. Just like you obviously didn't go to school to fix anything but teeth. To each his own specialty.
 

gary_ruska

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IbnSina said:
I'll get right on that when you remove his appendix using a 2 foot fork.
And treat his fluid balance problem secondary to his infection.
And manage his heart arrhythmia.
And his diabetes.
And his hypertension.
You would be well advised to know that GR already has an MD and, during his general surgery time, has certainly removed an appendix and done all of the above.

Also, GR would like to see any of the following specialists, after 5 - 10 years in practice, routinely treat arrhythmia, diabetes, and hypertension:

Ophthalmology, Radiology, Dermatology, PM&R, Orthopedics

Bottomline - just like dentists, most specialist physicians are not primarily treating the conditions you listed - they are merely adhering to specified protocols for patient management when they have patients with those conditions. So, unless you are an internist or a general surgeon, you might want to get off your soapbox.

Someone made a comment earlier about running a code...GR would venture to guess that most specialists mentioned above would be only marginally better than a dentist at running a code 10 years after finishing residency. Just because you knew how to do something once doesn't make you the "go to guy" for that procedure or event - skills atrophy without constant use.
 
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