MD vs DO for relatively high demand, low competition medical professions

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GoldenGulag49

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I have 2 offers I'm really considering. UC Davis vs Western. Western is half an hour from my house which is the main reason why I like it. All I want is to be is a family physician, or perhaps an emergency medicine physician. Will attending a DO school impact my success as a physician in these professions?

The reason why I'm wondering this is because of what I read from a "A Brief Guide to Osteopathic Medicine" published by Western U.

http://prospective.westernu.edu/ass...hic/A-Brief-Guide-to-Osteopathic-Medicine.pdf

Here's the specific paragraph I'm concerned about.

"Today, numerous issues, including physician reimbursement, still surround osteopathic medicine. The most pertinent of these concerns are internship and residency shortages, public awareness and perception, clinical research on OMM, DO-MD relations, and the effort to distinguish DOs from MDs in light of the progressive blurring of distinctions between the two professions. All of these issues are quite complex and are further elaborated on later in this guidebook."

I would very much appreciate it if you all could give me your experiences or thoughts regarding these reported issues for DO physicians specifically within California. Thanks!

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I have 2 offers I'm really considering. UC Davis vs Western. Western is half an hour from my house which is the main reason why I like it. All I want is to be is a family physician, or perhaps an emergency medicine physician. Will attending a DO school impact my success as a physician in these professions?

The reason why I'm wondering this is because of what I read from a "A Brief Guide to Osteopathic Medicine" published by Western U.

http://prospective.westernu.edu/ass...hic/A-Brief-Guide-to-Osteopathic-Medicine.pdf

Here's the specific paragraph I'm concerned about.

"Today, numerous issues, including physician reimbursement, still surround osteopathic medicine. The most pertinent of these concerns are internship and residency shortages, public awareness and perception, clinical research on OMM, DO-MD relations, and the effort to distinguish DOs from MDs in light of the progressive blurring of distinctions between the two professions. All of these issues are quite complex and are further elaborated on later in this guidebook."

I would very much appreciate it if you all could give me your experiences or thoughts regarding these reported issues for DO physicians specifically within California. Thanks!
Go to UC Davis. Anything a DO can do an MD can do and it'll be an easier path. You may think you know what you want to do as a specialty now but how will you feel in 4 years?

To address the paragraph, most of those problems aren't unique to DOs. The best thing for DOs is for the distinctions between MD-DO to become more blurred.
 
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UC Davis all day. It's not like you have to choose between moving across the country and staying near home
 
Haha not even in the same ball park. Davis.
 
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For my own grads, I see these residencies as being very doable: Gas, FP, Peds, ER, PM&R, Psych, Neuro, IM, Rads, OB/Gyn.
Goro do you know if MD vs DO stigma affects specializing after IM in some sub-specialties or at that point after IM residency it won't matter anymore whether you are DO or MD? Thanks
 
I have 2 offers I'm really considering. UC Davis vs Western. Western is half an hour from my house which is the main reason why I like it. All I want is to be is a family physician, or perhaps an emergency medicine physician. Will attending a DO school impact my success as a physician in these professions?

The reason why I'm wondering this is because of what I read from a "A Brief Guide to Osteopathic Medicine" published by Western U.

http://prospective.westernu.edu/ass...hic/A-Brief-Guide-to-Osteopathic-Medicine.pdf

Here's the specific paragraph I'm concerned about.

"Today, numerous issues, including physician reimbursement, still surround osteopathic medicine. The most pertinent of these concerns are internship and residency shortages, public awareness and perception, clinical research on OMM, DO-MD relations, and the effort to distinguish DOs from MDs in light of the progressive blurring of distinctions between the two professions. All of these issues are quite complex and are further elaborated on later in this guidebook."

I would very much appreciate it if you all could give me your experiences or thoughts regarding these reported issues for DO physicians specifically within California. Thanks!

I went to Western and am in EM. To answer your question, yes, attending Western will negatively impact your success in becoming a physician in almost any specialty except OMM/NMM when compared to UC Davis.

Obviously, it is possible to match in nearly any specialty when coming from Western, but Davis will give you such a leg up it is difficult to even understand someone asking this question.

To address the specific issues in your quoted paragraph: physician reimbursement is an issue for all physicians, DO schools have only themselves to blame for any shortage of post-grad training positions, the public is not aware, you can't do research on fairy tales even if we all know what a fairy tale is, DO-MD relations are improving because of the blurring distinctions.

Go to Davis.
 
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I'm trying not to hit my head over a wall reading this.

Your matching potential is greater at UC Davis. Your tuition is ridiculously cheaper at Davis if you are native Californian (even if your not a native its still cheaper). Time to leave the nest! (even then your not that far from home!)

Congrats none the less!
 
I have 2 offers I'm really considering. UC Davis vs Western. Western is half an hour from my house which is the main reason why I like it. All I want is to be is a family physician, or perhaps an emergency medicine physician. Will attending a DO school impact my success as a physician in these professions?

The reason why I'm wondering this is because of what I read from a "A Brief Guide to Osteopathic Medicine" published by Western U.

http://prospective.westernu.edu/ass...hic/A-Brief-Guide-to-Osteopathic-Medicine.pdf

Here's the specific paragraph I'm concerned about.

"Today, numerous issues, including physician reimbursement, still surround osteopathic medicine. The most pertinent of these concerns are internship and residency shortages, public awareness and perception, clinical research on OMM, DO-MD relations, and the effort to distinguish DOs from MDs in light of the progressive blurring of distinctions between the two professions. All of these issues are quite complex and are further elaborated on later in this guidebook."

I would very much appreciate it if you all could give me your experiences or thoughts regarding these reported issues for DO physicians specifically within California. Thanks!

Go to UCD. There is no reason to go to Western over UCD. You will have far more options, you will ultimately pay far less, you will have better clinical experiences, by the time you finish there won't be anymore AOA residencies, and you save yourself the hassle of taking 2 sets of boards.

Even if you want to do OMM, the ACGME is currently accrediting programs with osteopathic focus and even NMM fellowships, so there is literally nothing that you can do as a DO that you won't be able to do (probably more easily) as an MD from UCD.
 
It's easy to get FM, relatively easy for EM as a DO.

But what going to Davis over Western will do for you is allow you a significant advantage when applying for residencies, this will translate to better chance of going where you want. Meaning the ability to stay in cali will be higher if that's your goal
 
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It's easy to get FM, relatively easy for EM as a DO.

But what going to Davis over Western will do for you is allow you a significant advantage when applying for residencies, this will translate to better chance of going where you want. Meaning the ability to stay in cali will be higher if that's your goal

Yup take it from this guy, he managed to not make it onto a single match list when he applied to FM. That's how easy it is to get FM as a DO.
 
Yup take it from this guy, he managed to not make it onto a single match list when he applied to FM. That's how easy it is to get FM as a DO.

Whats the point of that shade?
 
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Yup take it from this guy, he managed to not make it onto a single match list when he applied to FM. That's how easy it is to get FM as a DO.

That really was pretty shady man. Idk what beef you have with SLC but take it somewhere else.
 
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How is it shady? It's completely relevant to the op's concern. I have no beef with that poster. Sorry that reality isn't all roses and rainbows.
 
How is it shady? It's completely relevant to the op's concern. I have no beef with that poster. Sorry that reality isn't all roses and rainbows.

Throwing anecdotes is not showing reality. Stating that 88% of DO match into FM while 94% of MD do is reality. Your chances are better as an MD. If you don't apply wisely you could end up one those DOs OR MDs. I didn't have to metaphorically strike below the belt to make the same point.
 
You guys are so worried about your poor egos being bruised that you missed the point. If Hillary Clinton was saying that it's easy to become president, it would not be misogynistic to point out that she herself failed to become president.

In the end, it's clear that op should go to uc davis. There's really no question about it.
 
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You guys are so worried about your poor egos being bruised that you missed the point. If Hillary Clinton was saying that it's easy to become president, it would not be misogynistic to point out that she herself failed to become president.

In the end, it's clear that op should go to uc davis. There's really no question about it.

I imagine you're a charming individual to talk to.

Sorry, but no one debated that UC Davis was not his best option. Not a single person in this thread.
No, all you mostly did was come in and interject with your 'brilliance' and apparently make this a certified Psai fact.

Thanks for the Psai Fact! We're all benefited now.
 
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Not sure why you always have this weird chip on your shoulder

I'm not sure how much of an ego you need to possess to assume that the issue here is me.

But alright. I'm going to keep this thread professional.
 
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Dude there is no ego. I actually usually take your side because I'm more than level headed when agreeing that MD is always the route to go but come on. The irritation came when you decided to blast someone for no reason. As I read it he was agreeing that Davis is the better choice but you felt it necessary to send personal attacks. If DOs are destined for PCP like most of sdn believes and now it's hard to match into fm as you nicely put it. where will the lowly DOs go? TRIs then bribe some rural fm residency to take them? No, they will not match into an academic center for something competitive but they will continue to match into FM at decent community hospitals and will still become board certified to practice. You seem to always talk about the DOs ego and their coping mechanism to protect such ego, but let's just be honest You're a troll and a fantastic one at it. I don't understand how a MD resident continues to stir the pot in DO forums.

And to say I'm protecting my ego and DOs can be anything is beyond untrue. I believe that the vast majority of DOs are destined for PC but get out of here with the can't even match into FM bs
 
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Dude there is no ego. I actually usually take your side because I'm more than level headed when agreeing that MD is always the route to go but come on. The irritation came when you decided to blast someone for no reason. As I read it he was agreeing that Davis is the better choice but you felt it necessary to send personal attacks. If DOs are destined for PCP like most of sdn believes and now it's hard to match into fm as you nicely put it. where will the lowly DOs go? TRIs then bribe some rural fm residency to take them? No, they will not match into an academic center for something competitive but they will continue to match into FM at decent community hospitals and will still become board certified to practice. You seem to always talk about the DOs ego and their coping mechanism to protect such ego, but let's just be honest You're a troll and a fantastic one at it. I don't understand how a MD resident continues to stir the pot in DO forums.

And to say I'm protecting my ego and DOs can be anything is beyond untrue. I believe that the vast majority of DOs are destined for PC but get out of here with the can't even match into FM bs
That's a bit of a stretch. It's really not that hard to get into a fellowship in peds or IM.
 
That's a bit of a stretch. It's really not that hard to get into a fellowship in peds or IM.


It's not. But there's really no denying that many are going to be ending up in PC. This is especially so in schools outside cities and ones that are established where their graduates almost end up in PC at rates close to 90%.
 
It's not. But there's really no denying that many are going to be ending up in PC. This is especially so in schools outside cities and ones that are established where their graduates almost end up in PC at rates close to 90%.
Source? Didn't think so. Just your usual hyperbole.

? The word "destined" as implied means these people have NO choice. Fact of the matter is there are a plethora of IM and peds subspec. that will take anyone will a pulse. It's not even a conversation. Facts are facts. If these docs CHOOSE to not pursue said subspec. than that is their choice.

http://www.nrmp.org/wp-content/uploads/2016/03/Results-and-Data-SMS-2016_Final.pdf
 
Source? Didn't think so. Just your usual hyperbole.

? The word "destined" as implied means these people have NO choice. Fact of the matter is there are a plethora of IM and peds subspec. that will take anyone will a pulse. It's not even a conversation. Facts are facts. If these docs CHOOSE to not pursue said subspec. than that is their choice.

http://www.nrmp.org/wp-content/uploads/2016/03/Results-and-Data-SMS-2016_Final.pdf


You're free to look up the match lists of LMU, WCU, and a few others. 80-90% of their class is in FM, IM, Peds and in either low tier community acgme or aoa residencies. They will almost certainly not be going into subspecialties and will likely go into general practice.

There are many IM subspecialties and same in Peds. Some of which are very easy to obtain. However the general trend is that people in low tier community and aoa residencies is that they don't end up seeking them. So that 80-90% is closer to being that number even after considering subspecialization out of PC.

Also mind you that PC isn't anything to be ashamed of.
 
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I apologize for off-topic, but why is PC considered as something "bad" or something to be ashamed of? I mean, IM for one is a very nice field to go to (at least I'm planning to go there lol).
I can explain why exactly I consider it really good:
1. 3 year residency and then average salary $220-240K is not that bad if you are smart with money
2. It's IMHO much better lifestyle, no night calls or emergencies (for the most part I mean), just relatively simple, easy job (meaning no surprises)
3. Most places adopted week on/week off schedule - which is awesome if you ask me, work 1 week, do whatever you want next week and so on
4. Some opportunity to specialize later if you still feel like it (tho I'm not sure if that's common for Internists to specialize after been working in IM for years)
5. Relatevly non compettitve and has more positions across country in every Hospital - so better chance to end up in program and place of your first choice
For someone who is not aiming to the very top and appreciates good lifestyle and maybe has family and kids and wants to put less stress on family and have some options to choose location (all this relocations and stress etc) - I think this is as good as it gets
Am I missing something here? MS1 here, so maybe I'm too naive? lol
 
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I apologize for off-topic, but why is PC considered as something "bad" or something to be ashamed of? I mean, IM for one is a very nice field to go to (at least I'm planning to go there lol).
I can explain why exactly I consider it really good:
1. 3 year residency and then average salary $220-240K is not that bad if you are smart with money
2. It's IMHO much better lifestyle, no night calls or emergencies (for the most part I mean), just relatively simple, easy job (meaning no surprises)
3. Most places adopted week on/week off schedule - which is awesome if you ask me, work 1 week, do whatever you want next week and so on
4. Some opportunity to specialize later if you still feel like it (tho I'm not sure if that's common for Internists to specialize after been working in IM for years)
5. Relatevly non compettitve and has more positions across country in every Hospital - so better chance to end up in program and place of your first choice
For someone who is not aiming to the very top and appreciates good lifestyle and maybe has family and wants to put less stress on family (all this relocations etc) - I think this is as good as it gets
Am I missing something here? MS1 here, so maybe I'm too naive? lol

Because some people will insist on having life be a constant phallus measuring contest. I have interests in specializing currently but my wife may very well convince me to pursue PC because of all that you mentioned above. Not to mention that if I practice in a more rural area (big draw for me) I might get some loans repaid for, not to mention that PC is in such high demand that I can practically practice wherever the heck I want right out of residency.
 
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I apologize for off-topic, but why is PC considered as something "bad" or something to be ashamed of? I mean, IM for one is a very nice field to go to (at least I'm planning to go there lol).
I can explain why exactly I consider it really good:
1. 3 year residency and then average salary $220-240K is not that bad if you are smart with money
2. It's IMHO much better lifestyle, no night calls or emergencies (for the most part I mean), just relatively simple, easy job (meaning no surprises)
3. Most places adopted week on/week off schedule - which is awesome if you ask me, work 1 week, do whatever you want next week and so on
4. Some opportunity to specialize later if you still feel like it (tho I'm not sure if that's common for Internists to specialize after been working in IM for years)
5. Relatevly non compettitve and has more positions across country in every Hospital - so better chance to end up in program and place of your first choice
For someone who is not aiming to the very top and appreciates good lifestyle and maybe has family and wants to put less stress on family (all this relocations etc) - I think this is as good as it gets
Am I missing something here? MS1 here, so maybe I'm too naive? lol

Its not so much the fields themselves, but the fact that its easier to match into those fields as a whole. As mentioned above, its a pissing contest with people on here. Just matching into fields like derm, rad onc, and plastics is impressive no matter what the residency. However, if you match into IM in a rural town of 10,000; then it is looked at as a poor match. But matching in MGH in IM is looked at as an insanely impressive match, which no DO has done that I know of. This is what the argument is in reference to.
 
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Because some people will insist on having life be a constant phallus measuring contest. I have interests in specializing currently but my wife may very well convince me to pursue PC because of all that you mentioned above. Not to mention that if I practice in a more rural area (big draw for me) I might get some loans repaid for, not to mention that PC is in such high demand that I can practically practice wherever the heck I want right out of residency.

Anyone who puts another down about their match generally does it out of insecurity.

If you do rural primary care you'll get loans paid for. I already have an excellent job lined up as an R2, it's rural but within 2 hrs of a major metro area (the one where I grew up) I'll get ~70k per year in loan repayment, $210k total for the 3 year duration of my contract. Can continue to get more if I stay rural beyond the contract's expiration too.
 
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I apologize for off-topic, but why is PC considered as something "bad" or something to be ashamed of? I mean, IM for one is a very nice field to go to (at least I'm planning to go there lol).
I can explain why exactly I consider it really good:
1. 3 year residency and then average salary $220-240K is not that bad if you are smart with money
2. It's IMHO much better lifestyle, no night calls or emergencies (for the most part I mean), just relatively simple, easy job (meaning no surprises)
3. Most places adopted week on/week off schedule - which is awesome if you ask me, work 1 week, do whatever you want next week and so on
4. Some opportunity to specialize later if you still feel like it (tho I'm not sure if that's common for Internists to specialize after been working in IM for years)
5. Relatevly non compettitve and has more positions across country in every Hospital - so better chance to end up in program and place of your first choice
For someone who is not aiming to the very top and appreciates good lifestyle and maybe has family and kids and wants to put less stress on family and have some options to choose location (all this relocations and stress etc) - I think this is as good as it gets
Am I missing something here? MS1 here, so maybe I'm too naive? lol


To be entirely clear, my two top choices are in primary care. I don't think any less of them nor do I think that them being primary care are inherently undesirable.

However and by virtue of what it is, both of my two choices are neither competitive and frankly in many respects mildly disrespected on this forum for either perceptions of the candidates they attract and or the notion that they are shameful holes people fall into as a result of their failures to be 'great'.

That being said the funnel from low tier DO schools and uncompetitive graduates into PC is an unfortunate one. There is nothing worse than a primary care physician who doesn't really like it.
 
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You're free to look up the match lists of LMU, WCU, and a few others. 80-90% of their class is in FM, IM, Peds and in either low tier community acgme or aoa residencies. They will almost certainly not be going into subspecialties and will likely go into general practice.

There are many IM subspecialties and same in Peds. Some of which are very easy to obtain. However the general trend is that people in low tier community and aoa residencies is that they don't end up seeking them. So that 80-90% is closer to being that number even after considering subspecialization out of PC.

Also mind you that PC isn't anything to be ashamed of.
Would like to see that match... 80-90% seems to be extremely high
 
Would like to see that match... 80-90% seems to be extremely high

WCU is a very new school and prior to a few years ago only a few good instructors were there. They'll probably get better outcomes progressively, but their early matches including the 2015-2016 match had 80%+. LMU is also 80% PC.
 
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WCU is a very new school and prior to a few years ago only a few good instructors were there. They'll probably get better outcomes progressively, but their early matches including the 2015-2016 match had 80%+. LMU is also 80% PC.

Doubt it will get much better. There were schools that are even newer and had better matches. Part of the reason is location, your on mark with this point.
 
Anyone who puts another down about their match generally does it out of insecurity.

If you do rural primary care you'll get loans paid for. I already have an excellent job lined up as an R2, it's rural but within 2 hrs of a major metro area (the one where I grew up) I'll get ~70k per year in loan repayment, $210k total for the 3 year duration of my contract. Can continue to get more if I stay rural beyond the contract's expiration too.

I've always wondered, are the taxes paid on 210K salad + 70K for loans repayment the same as for 280K salary?
 
I've always wondered, are the taxes paid on 210K salad + 70K for loans repayment the same as for 280K salary?

I'm unsure. But the 210k is loan repayment, not salary. It's just that I get 35k/year in repayment from state, and the company matches with another 35k each year of my contract.
 
I'm unsure. But the 210k is loan repayment, not salary. It's just that I get 35k/year in repayment from state, and the company matches with another 35k each year of my contract.
sorry. misread your quote. 210 is very generous, especially with the option of extending the contract beyond 3 years. Hopefully the actual salary is generous too.
 
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I've always wondered, are the taxes paid on 210K salad + 70K for loans repayment the same as for 280K salary?

Complicated answers (and can change based on what happens in the upcoming month)

If your loan forgiveness is through NHSC, then it is federal tax free based.

If your loan forgiveness program is through a state sponsored State Loan Forgiveness Program (SLFP), then it would be federal tax free based on the "Expanded Tax Benefit for Health Professionals Working in Underserved Areas" created by the Affordable Care Act of 2010. Whether it is state and local tax free will depends on how the state created it and if they exempt it. There are states where the loan forgiveness is federal tax free BUT not state/local tax exempt (for example - Arizona considers it tax-exempt but New Jersey will tax it as income). Usually these programs are funded with state money as well as matching contributions from the hospitals/clinics.

And if the Affordable Care Act of 2010 is repealed, then it really depends on if it is repealed in whole, or in parts (and what survives, what doesn't, and what replaces it) so the federal tax-exempt status may or may not be there.

If the hospital is offering to help with student loan forgiveness and is not part of a state or federal loan forgiveness program - the IRS treats it as compensation.


In addition, there is an additional 0.9% tax for those whose income is > $200k single ($250k married filing jointly) called "Additional Medicare Tax" that was written into the Affordable Care Act



BTW, I want to thank the members of SDN for keeping this thread on track and not devolving into a thread with personal attacks or off-topic (and/or redundant topics) conversations. Keep up the good work. The SDN Terms of Service Agreement, for those who need a refresher/update:
http://www.studentdoctor.net/online-service-agreement/
 
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WCU is a very new school and prior to a few years ago only a few good instructors were there. They'll probably get better outcomes progressively, but their early matches including the 2015-2016 match had 80%+. LMU is also 80% PC.

Woah now... easy. We really arent that new. WCUCOM has been around long enough. Many of us that match primary care did not do it because they wanted to, they had to. Facing facts here ... our board scores are not competitive and it is rare for someone to take the USMLE. Our match will get worse not better as our scores are going down. I mean you dont match outside of primary care with scores well under average. It very difficult for us to get strong faculty, just dont have the resources and many people dont want to live in a town like hattiesburg, ms. Its rough.

That being said with the flood of new DO schools and competition going way up even the best schools are going to find it hard to match outside of PC spots. Just wait until the AOA match is gone, IMGs and DOs are going to see plenty of people not match into any field. To every program DO and IMG means less competitive.


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I went to Western and am in EM. To answer your question, yes, attending Western will negatively impact your success in becoming a physician in almost any specialty except OMM/NMM when compared to UC Davis.

Obviously, it is possible to match in nearly any specialty when coming from Western, but Davis will give you such a leg up it is difficult to even understand someone asking this question.

To address the specific issues in your quoted paragraph: physician reimbursement is an issue for all physicians, DO schools have only themselves to blame for any shortage of post-grad training positions, the public is not aware, you can't do research on fairy tales even if we all know what a fairy tale is, DO-MD relations are improving because of the blurring distinctions.

Go to Davis.

I'm trying not to hit my head over a wall reading this.

Your matching potential is greater at UC Davis. Your tuition is ridiculously cheaper at Davis if you are native Californian (even if your not a native its still cheaper). Time to leave the nest! (even then your not that far from home!)

Congrats none the less!

Just wait until the AOA match is gone, IMGs and DOs are going to see plenty of people not match into any field. To every program DO and IMG means less competitive.


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Wait so are you guys saying that in the near future we are going to have students with 200k+ debt that don't match into any field? I'm actually personally interested in FM and EM. Will some of the DO students, interested in these fields, that are ranked close to the bottom in their class really not get ANY residency?
 
Wait so are you guys saying that in the near future we are going to have students with 200k+ debt that don't match into any field? I'm actually personally interested in FM and EM. Will some of the DO students, interested in these fields, that are ranked close to the bottom in their class really not get ANY residency?

Yep that is exactly what i think we are getting at. Post 2020 it will be in a constant decline until loans get cut off and schools close.


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Wait so are you guys saying that in the near future we are going to have students with 200k+ debt that don't match into any field? I'm actually personally interested in FM and EM. Will some of the DO students, interested in these fields, that are ranked close to the bottom in their class really not get ANY residency?

In the near future, you don't have to fear not matching as long as you pass everything. However, in the more near future you will be worried about your matching potential. It will not be as easy as it once was.

If not put to a stop, the continued proliferation of more schools could potentially lead to a future where people do pass medical school, but still not match. Remember I am not saying this will happen in the near future, but could have several decades down the line if not stopped.
 
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In the near future, you don't have to fear not matching as long as you pass everything. However, in the more near future you will be worried about your matching potential. It will not be as easy as it once was.

If not put to a stop, the continued proliferation of more schools could potentially lead to a future where people do pass medical school, but still not match. Remember I am not saying this will happen in the near future, but could have several decades down the line if not stopped.
We can only hope that our glorious orange leader severely limits work visas in the meantime to cut FMGs out of the match... or expands GME significantly
 
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We can only hope that our glorious orange leader severely limits work visas in the meantime to cut FMGs out of the match... or expands GME significantly

Oh god you should read the allo forums, there are a lot of people who think Trump will change healthcare for the good of everyone. lol
 
We can only hope that our glorious orange leader severely limits work visas in the meantime to cut FMGs out of the match... or expands GME significantly
Expanding GME significantly is not the answer. Unless you want physicians to be more saturated, further driving down salaries.
 
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Expanding GME significantly is not the answer. Unless you want physicians to be more saturated, further driving down salaries.

Well the population of the US is expanding more than GME is if that is any relief to you. So, there will always be a deficit.
 
We can only hope that our glorious orange leader severely limits work visas in the meantime to cut FMGs out of the match... or expands GME significantly

I think you mean immigration of individuals with medical degrees. Work visas are by definition temporary and I don't think a work visa fmg can practice as a physician unless they're visiting scholar or specialist whom the university or hospital covers.

I think expanding GME too fast has issues too.
 
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