MD's get rid of your God complex

[viperdoc]

Doctor Operates on Wrong Knee

.c The Associated Press


SARANAC LAKE, N.Y. (AP) - A surgeon who mistakenly operated on a man's healthy hip five years ago has performed surgery on another patient's healthy knee, even though the leg intended for surgery was marked ``Yes.''

As a result, Dr. Craig DuMond will no longer practice at the Adirondack Medical Center, hospital president and CEO Chandler Ralph told the Adirondack Daily Enterprise. DuMond also relinquished his title as president of AMC's medical staff and terminated his private practice in Saranac Lake.

In a letter issued Friday, DuMond said he was embarrassed and anguished by the incident.

After a 1996 operation, in which DuMond mistakenly pinned an elderly patient's wrong hip, AMC officials required its staff to write the word ``Yes'' on any limb that was supposed to be operated on.

For Monday's surgery, ``Yes'' was correctly marked on the patient's problem knee, but DuMond operated on the other one anyway, said AMC Public Relations Director Cheryl Breen Randall.

For all future limb surgeries, hospital staff will also be required to pull a red hockey sock over the wrong arm or leg, and write the word ``No'' underneath.

The hospital notified state regulatory agencies, Ralph said.

The patient in the 1996 operation filed a lawsuit that was settled out of court. Terms of that settlement and of a state-approved disciplinary action were confidential.

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[wooo]

One question;

How does that story relate to the "God complex" that is listed in the title?

 

[Cobragirl]

Seems to me that it proves the opposite.

Doctors are human, therefor fallible. Doctors can, will, and DO make mistakes (although, I have to admit that this particular doc may be a little over the top!). The trick (I hope) is to try to eliminate as many "obvious" mistakes as possible.

I personally, can not even fathom how the doctor, not to mention all the nurses, techs, etc. that must be in the room, could have possibly started such a complicated procedure without double checking the paperwork & x-rays (surely there are x-rays!) to find the "right" body part! I also find it hard to blame it "completely" on the doc, although he IS ultimately responsible, since he's senior to everyone. Why didn't anyone ELSE catch the problem before he started to work. And who PREPPED the patient???? Don't the nurses "prepare" the area to be operated on??? If so, then the doc would have had to deliberatly REMOVE and rearrange the drapes, etc. before he could proceed. If he did this...against the advice of the nurses on hand...maybe somebody should have called someone "in charge"...or security!!!

Just my thoughts....I really don't understand how these things happen!

 

[SDN-Jim]

What does an obsessive compulsive dyslexic agnostic do all day anyway?

[This message has been edited by SDN-Jim (edited 03-17-2001).]

 

[SDN-Jim]

He wanders around aimlessly and wonders if there really is a dog.

 

[Dr JPH]

Jim cracks me up...that's funny stuff.

Replying to the original poster...I don't think someone's title matters much at all.

Everybody makes mistakes, regardless of title, experience, expertise, or otherwise.

Even Cobragirl messes up once in awhile.

Peace



------------------
Joshua Paul Hazelton
[email protected]
University of the Sciences in Philadelphia (2002)

 

[viperdoc]

Guess you're one of the few then, JP, that doesn't think a "title" matters. Obviously, not everyone feels that way in the pre-med world, especially the DO vs. MD posters who rattle my cage with every post.

Ask yourself MD's and future MD's with an attitude: are you BETTER than me? better than the rest of society? should be the one allowed in the hypothectical scenario, "who should be allowed in the bomb shelter that can hold only 5 people, the pimp, the call-girl, the pregnant drug addict, the priest, or the MD??????

huh?


happy (burp!) St. Partick's Day (uh, Patrick's DAy)

 

[viperdoc]

Oh, and another thing MDs:

Don't patronize me ever by saying,"congratulations on going to [blank] osteo school"

You only write this because you are happy that one less person will COMPETE with you for a coveted allo spot.

May you be sued by an attorney from Whittier Law School (a lowly fifth tier law school oh so beneath you) and May your future husbands and wives cheat on you with a podiatrist!!! (nothing wrong with them, considering one helped my plantar fasciatis once, but that's besides the point)

-Viper

 

[Besyonek]

As one who will become an MD in 2003, I would like to comment as follows:

Considering the tone of your posts here so far, I would have to say that, yes, I and a lot of my colleagues are better than you. You apparently have some anger issues to work out before you start your medical education. If you are so resentful of the supposed lesser status accorded to osteopathic physicians, I suggest that you cede your spot in the DO school to someone who has a more enthusiastic and less toxic view of medicine and of your future colleagues. Should you proceed with your studies bearing this chip on your shoulder, your hostility will unavoidably impede your ability to work with non-osteo physicians and ultimately impair the quality of care provided to your patients.

Incidentally, the "bomb shelter" scenario you posited above has room for all FIVE of the people mentioned.

[This message has been edited by Besyonek (edited 03-18-2001).]

 

[SocialistMD]

Bombshelters aside, viperdoc, it is you who seems to have the issue with the letters at the end of one's name. How else could you explain the out-of-the-blue posting of the same article twice, accusing MD's of having god complexes.
No, I am not better than you. I am sure there are things you can do that are better than I can and vice versa. This is true for everyone in society, regardless of degree. That is why you will never see me accuse DO's as being second rate; I do not believe they are.
The problem I believe you have is that you want to believe MD's have this god complex so you can hate them. Why?
Incidentally, if I were to ever congratulate a pre-DO for his/her acceptance, it would not be out of relief that I have less competition. I have already been accepted to medical school, as have many on this board. I congratulate the fact that they have succeeded in acheiving a goal. Nothing more.
Whatever issues you have with MD's, I hope you are able to work them out. If you want to talk about it, feel free. I am willing, and I am sure the people on SDN feel the same.

 

[alshepard]

One way in which I am better than you, viperdoc, has nothing to do with my choosing allopathic over osteo. It is simply that I have better posture than you by not have to stoop under the load of that tremendous chip you are carrying on your shoulder.

 

[Mango]

Viper, I wonder what could have possibly happened to make you so sure that all MD's are evil?

Also, you make such broad stereotypes. Surely you realize that these are invalid. For instance, there are 150 people in my med school class, and 150 different personalities. You may wish to think of it as 150 different attitude problems, and you may be correct, but the point is that WE ARE NOT ALL THE SAME! I have zero issues with the fact that some physicians have achieved a different pair of letters after their name. We are all physicians and future physicians. We have all dedicated many long hard years of our lives to achieve this goal. We have undertaken this arduous task for many different reasons. For some, those reasons may be different than yours. And they may be shallow, greedy, power hungry or whatever. But that is just an unfortunate group. They will always exist, in MD and DO schools! Fortunately their numbers are extremely small, and dropping quickly.

So I guess you have a decision to make. Can you come to terms with the fact that even though we all have our differences (that's what makes us individuals), we are all in this health care thing together? And that nobody is better than anybody else, but people earn respect for who they are, what they know, and how they treat others. You may want to focus your passion inward to determine what personality characteristics you will bring into medicine. And whether or not they will earn the respect of your peers.

Or you may not care at all about whether or not you are respected by your peers and patients. If that is the case, then you have an interesting career ahead of you.

[This message has been edited by Mango (edited 03-18-2001).]

 

[praying4MD]

Where do you guys/gals find the time for these in-depth, identity searching conversations? Very interesting bickering going on indeed. If this is the ego content now, I only imagine what we'll be like with MD's behind our names. Think we'll all be able to fit on one forum, or will our heads be too big? And what a fragile ego it is.

 

[kimberlicox]

Just a brief comment...

who had the "God Complex": the physician who made the terrible mistake or the ENTIRE staff (the comments made above about the number of staff in the OR and their responsibilties is quite accurate) who deigned NOT to question him?

I hope, upon becoming a surgeon, that the staff I work with will not assume I am always correct and will IMMEDIATELY call to my attention any discrepancies or errors in my work. Perhaps it is the case that the co-workers were partly responsible for any possible "God complex" by not correcting mistakes - then and in the past.

Just my two cents...

 

[SocialistMD]

<font face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica" size="2">Originally posted by praying4MD:
Where do you guys/gals find the time for these in-depth, identity searching conversations? Very interesting bickering going on indeed. If this is the ego content now, I only imagine what we'll be like with MD's behind our names. Think we'll all be able to fit on one forum, or will our heads be too big? And what a fragile ego it is. •

Do you subscribe to the theory that med school breeds an ego? If not, then what makes you think the egos of the people on this post will become bigger? Maybe we have all maximized our egos already, and we are just now adjusting. One summer, my feet grew two whole sizes in one week (8-&gt;10) and I was tripping over my feet for a while. Maybe that is what everyone is doing now.
Just a thought (one of a mind that has not had sleep since 4:30 this morning and just finished watching back-to-back episodes of jackass).

 

[Cobragirl]

You know, I think my ego has actually gotten SMALLER over the last couple weeks because I don't feel the need to go around "proving" that I'm "good" enough to get in. I'm in. I'm happy...and I'm still praying for my fellow classmates that are still waiting to hear something (I haven't even opened the bottle of champagne my hubby bought for me because I want to share it with my friends when THEY make it!

)

 

[kimberlicox]

<font face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica" size="2">Originally posted by Cobragirl:
You know, I think my ego has actually gotten SMALLER over the last couple weeks because I don't feel the need to go around "proving" that I'm "good" enough to get in. •

If anything, medical school deflated my ego. Too many other brighter and more accomplished people! Congrats again Cobragirl and enjoy this fanciful time!!

 

[praying4MD]

Cobragirl: You are such an inspiration to all of us aspiring med students. Congrats on your acceptances! Judging from your posts, you certainly deserve them!

SocialistMD: No, I don't think med school works on maximizing your ego. If anything, knowing that there are many people more qualified as you should deflate one's ego. However, I do subscribe to the idea that many premed students have a superiority complex (or is it inferiority?

I do believe that an "MD" behind their name only serves to inflate the ego of those who want to abuse the prestige of being a physician. However, I have to say that I think that many of the people on this forum, like you, are wise enough and mature enough to handle that and will not abuse it. As for the others, well... I just hope I'm not around when they fail to push their pride out of the way and put others' lives in danger.

By the way, I really liked your posts on the socialized medicine thread, not to mention many others that I don't write on because you have already written what I think much better than I could ever have phrased it. Keep it up, it saves me time!

 

[edmadison]

Part of this thread reminds me of an old joke:

You are locked in a room with Hitler, Stalin and a lawyer. You have a gun with only two bullets. What do you do?

Do society a favor -- shoot the lawyer twice!

Ed

 

[viperdoc]

TO:

Kimberlicock- You will NEVER become a surgeon. Do you even know what the heck it is to become a sugeon. You remind me of the pre-meds i went to school with who kept talking about being an ortho or neuro surgeon and they couldn't even pass general chemistry! Haha You'll be lucky to get into a family practice residency in Omaha.
Do some more research, honey.

Cobragirl- I'm Soooo SICK of hearing about you getting into med school. You are NOT that special. I feel pretty bad about what happened to your MCAT scores, but you got in, it's over, let it go... too stuck up for your own good.
I see YOU as a surgeon in the future!

Mango- Another one who is too good for DO school. I saw your list of the Ohio med school rankings from last year and I noticed that OUCOM is on the bottom. WHy?!?! Aren't they worthy of your praise, oh, or is it that they're a LOWLY DO school. Thank God I'll never have to do rotations with you. May you rot in Cincinnati!


Lots of disdain,
Viper

 

[praying4MD]

What is your problem viperdoc? I realize that many premeds do think they are God's gift to academia, but there's no need to get personal and cruel about it. You are giving DO's a bad name yourself by being so bitter about it.

I realize your frustration with premeds' attitudes that an MD is the epitome of life (it's not, in my opinion). I believe anything you do in life is worthy of praise, and that the prestige we bestow on professions is meaningless. For instance, who are the people shaping the lives of our future? Mothers and Teachers. The most underrated of all. They deserve a lot more respect and admiration than MD's or DO's! No vacation, no money, no appreciation, but they do it with pride nonetheless. That also goes for members of the clergy.

Whatever people do with their lives, as long as they perform it with dignity, they should be respected for it.

There's no need to be rude and demean others.

 

[Cobragirl]

Viperdoc...all I have to say is that based on your posts and your attitude, YOU will be the only one here that will NOT be a good doctor. You're too SELF-CENTERED, too full of anger, and too CLOSED-MINDED to EVER perform as a caring and compassionate physician, MD, DO, or otherwise. I feel sorry for YOU!

As for being sick of hearing about me getting in....TOO FRICKIN' BAD!!!! I DID get in, I'm DAMN proud, I AM special, and it's JERK attitudes like yours that got me here! I've known MANY people, like yourself, that derive their pleasure from belittling others....and I've spent the last 10 years of my life PROVING THEM WRONG!

YOU'RE the one who's STUCK UP, buddy....

 

[kimberlicox]

I would normally not respond to such obvious trolling activity, but what the heck - them's fighting words.

IMHO, there is no need for personal, demeaning attacks. It is inappropriate in adult, professional society and violates the rules you agreed to for SDN participation. If you disagree with a thread or a poster, there is an appropriate manner in which to do so.

As for your creative spelling of my name - gee, haven't seen that since junior high school. What's next? Jokes about farts and poopie?

Would you happen to have any crow about the house? It might make for a tasty dinner tonight because guess what? Monday was Match Day and I DID match. I matched to a categorical, university SURGERY program because those are the only ones I ranked. I'll let you know where tomorrow so you can ponder about what idiots they must be to let in someone like me, who has NO IDEA what it takes to be a surgeon. I DO have a good idea of what it takes to be a surgeon. Surely not as much as a surgeon, but likely vastly more than a pre-med student.

Anyway, enuf about me. I shan't respond further on this topic because it is obvious to me that you wish only to consider responses which agree with your rather distorted viewpoint of allopathic medicine.

 

[KidA]

vipe?

Are you entertained enough yet?

 

[Leotigers]

Just ignore him, he is obviously looking to stir up trouble.

Most of the posts surrounding Cobragirl's admission was from other member's congratulating her. She deserves it too.

It's nice to have colleagues who deserve it unlike yourself. I can only hope your attitude here is only a reflection of your online persona. I doubt it though.

I find that it is usually the underachieving students who seem to have the most problems with other medical colleagues. If you have confidence in yourself, you aren't really too worried about other people. I know that Vipe will just end up attacking me too. Go ahead, Vipe, while you are sitting here moaning and griping, I will be off to my specialty residency. Good luck, Vipe !!! You might want to consider hitting the books every once in awhile.

- leo

 

[theking]

Ok, shut up, all of you.
Let me end this conversation once and for all.
Neither DO's or MD's are better.

Obviously, its the DDS/DMD's that are the better ones.

Peace.

 

[Dante60]

ROFL @ TheKing!

You're daaamn right.

 

[viperdoc]

Cobragirl,
I have to congratulate your husband... for putting up with YOU! Was he drugged when he said "yes" at the alter? Do you nag him all day about your acceptance? I'm sure you'll be a joy to live with through 4 yrs. of med school.

Kimberlicox- Congratulations on the categorical surgical match... but if you've done your homework you know that they are very easy to get because the attrition is so great. Talk to me in about a year and we'll see if the big, bad surgeons haven't sapped your will to survive! Haha

Telling you what others think and feel, but are too scared to say,
Viper

 

[docuw]

In case we havent figured it out yet... I think it would be safe to say that this is just another one of KidA's alter egos. This guy makes abunce of aliases and then f#Ck$ with people (eg., the Do I have a shot? Thread before).

This guy is on my ignore list.

-DocUW

 

[KidA]

Woah there .... wait a minute!

Let's make one thing clear:

KidA is not equal to Viperdoc;
Viperdoc is not equal to KidA;
KidA = KidA (and no one else).

 

[Cobragirl]

You know...I had an inferiorty complex like yours when I was in elementary school too.

Maybe someday you'll grow out of yours....

See ya LOSER! You're not worth my time...

[This message has been edited by Cobragirl (edited March 22, 2001).]

 

[NickNaylor]

Oh, and another thing MDs:

Don't patronize me ever by saying,"congratulations on going to [blank] osteo school"

You only write this because you are happy that one less person will COMPETE with you for a coveted allo spot.

May you be sued by an attorney from Whittier Law School (a lowly fifth tier law school oh so beneath you) and May your future husbands and wives cheat on you with a podiatrist!!! (nothing wrong with them, considering one helped my plantar fasciatis once, but that's besides the point)

-Viper

Again, even if you're correct and even if 0% of people buy more than one small sized drink, what's the real benefit? It is ONE ITEM that is unhealthy out of an infinite number. It doesn't even begin to address problems related to exercise, portion control, etc..

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SGH-I717

 

[erutha95]

.

 

[sinombre]

Again, even if you're correct and even if 0% of people buy more than one small sized drink, what's the real benefit? It is ONE ITEM that is unhealthy out of an infinite number. It doesn't even begin to address problems related to exercise, portion control, etc..

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SGH-I717

lol... NickNaylor with a 12 year old necrobump.

I did this on my phone the other week somehow as well.

 

[as1212559]

necrobump of peace

 

[NickNaylor]

Whoa, my bad. Sorry guys. Tapatalk has this nasty bug where I quote a post but it somehow says that I'm responding to a random thread/post that I've never even seen. I usually catch it but I guess I didn't look my post over enough.

Oops.

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SGH-I717

 

[1stmeds]

Doctor Operates on Wrong Knee

.c The Associated Press


SARANAC LAKE, N.Y. (AP) - A surgeon who mistakenly operated on a man's healthy hip five years ago has performed surgery on another patient's healthy knee, even though the leg intended for surgery was marked ``Yes.''

As a result, Dr. Craig DuMond will no longer practice at the Adirondack Medical Center, hospital president and CEO Chandler Ralph told the Adirondack Daily Enterprise. DuMond also relinquished his title as president of AMC's medical staff and terminated his private practice in Saranac Lake.

In a letter issued Friday, DuMond said he was embarrassed and anguished by the incident.

After a 1996 operation, in which DuMond mistakenly pinned an elderly patient's wrong hip, AMC officials required its staff to write the word ``Yes'' on any limb that was supposed to be operated on.

For Monday's surgery, ``Yes'' was correctly marked on the patient's problem knee, but DuMond operated on the other one anyway, said AMC Public Relations Director Cheryl Breen Randall.

For all future limb surgeries, hospital staff will also be required to pull a red hockey sock over the wrong arm or leg, and write the word ``No'' underneath.

The hospital notified state regulatory agencies, Ralph said.

The patient in the 1996 operation filed a lawsuit that was settled out of court. Terms of that settlement and of a state-approved disciplinary action were confidential.

medical mistakes are unfortunately not uncommon. check out Unaccountable by Dr. Marty Makary. Its eye-opening.

 

[Hillo]

Oh my gosh a baby could have grown into another pre-med in those 12 years...

 

[487806]

Again, even if you're correct and even if 0% of people buy more than one small sized drink, what's the real benefit? It is ONE ITEM that is unhealthy out of an infinite number. It doesn't even begin to address problems related to exercise, portion control, etc..

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SGH-I717

NickNaylor Power!!! That necrobump was unexpected from you.

 

[RockinRoll]

 

[notbobtrustme]

man, the standard thread necromancer pics don't do this justice.

 

[yehhhboiii]

"Joshua Paul Hazelton
[email protected]
University of the Sciences in Philadelphia (2002)"

Was aol really only 10 years ago?

 

[WhizoMD]

Hard not to feel like God when you have these on your waist.

 

[sinombre]

"Joshua Paul Hazelton
[email protected]
University of the Sciences in Philadelphia (2002)"

Was aol really only 10 years ago?

Yeah... I definitely used AIM a lot around that time.

 

[goofball]

I will be a God when I get my MD.



(not serious)

What is your problem viperdoc? I realize that many premeds do think they are God's gift to academia, but there's no need to get personal and cruel about it. You are giving DO's a bad name yourself by being so bitter about it.

I realize your frustration with premeds' attitudes that an MD is the epitome of life (it's not, in my opinion). I believe anything you do in life is worthy of praise, and that the prestige we bestow on professions is meaningless. For instance, who are the people shaping the lives of our future? Mothers and Teachers. The most underrated of all. They deserve a lot more respect and admiration than MD's or DO's! No vacation, no money, no appreciation, but they do it with pride nonetheless. That also goes for members of the clergy.

Whatever people do with their lives, as long as they perform it with dignity, they should be respected for it.

There's no need to be rude and demean others.

Don't teachers get summer vacations?

 

[Arbor Vitae]

Whoa, my bad. Sorry guys. Tapatalk has this nasty bug where I quote a post but it somehow says that I'm responding to a random thread/post that I've never even seen. I usually catch it but I guess I didn't look my post over enough.

Oops.

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SGH-I717

riiiiigghhhttt, the title of this thread is way too trolly for a coincidental tapatalk typo...

 

[loltopsy]

I have an M.D. from Harvard, I am board certified in cardio-thoracic medicine and trauma surgery, I have been awarded citations from seven different medical boards in New England, and I am never, ever sick at sea. So I ask you; when someone goes into that chapel and they fall on their knees and they pray to God that their wife doesn't miscarry or that their daughter doesn't bleed to death or that their mother doesn't suffer acute neural trauma from postoperative shock, who do you think they're praying to? Now, go ahead and read your Bible, and you go to your church, and, with any luck, you might win the annual raffle, but if you're looking for God, he was in operating room number two on November 17, and he doesn't like to be second guessed. You ask me if I have a God complex. Let me tell you something: I am God.

 

[RockinRoll]

I have an M.D. from Harvard, I am board certified in cardio-thoracic medicine and trauma surgery, I have been awarded citations from seven different medical boards in New England, and I am never, ever sick at sea. So I ask you; when someone goes into that chapel and they fall on their knees and they pray to God that their wife doesn't miscarry or that their daughter doesn't bleed to death or that their mother doesn't suffer acute neural trama from postoperative shock, who do you think they're praying to? Now, go ahead and read your Bible, and you go to your church, and, with any luck, you might win the annual raffle, but if you're looking for God, he was in operating room number two on November 17, and he doesn't like to be second guessed. You ask me if I have a God complex. Let me tell you something: I am God.

Dude you're a premed.

 

[loltopsy]

Dude you're a premed.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Malice_(film)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LqeC3BPYTmE

 

[deleted393595]

Again, even if you're correct and even if 0% of people buy more than one small sized drink, what's the real benefit? It is ONE ITEM that is unhealthy out of an infinite number. It doesn't even begin to address problems related to exercise, portion control, etc..

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SGH-I717

SomeMenJustWantToSeeTheWorldBurn.jpg