Med school in only three years? LECOM program

[calimeds]

I can't find a discussion of this via searching - if there are already threads please point them out.

If there aren't - I just saw on LECOM's website that they have a D.O.-in-three-years program that's aimed exclusively for people going into primary care. It says you start clinical rotations in March of your second year.

Anyone in this program or know anything about it? Are they the only school to have a three year program?

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[Slevin]

It's a LECOM Erie only program right now.

They do it by giving you a summer break that is two weeks long. They also cut out allot of the 4th year rotations, electives, etc, Things that would give you a better hands on clinical experience.

The first PCSP class is getting ready to graduate this spring.

The basic sciences are taught via independent learning where they give you objectives and the book and you are supposed to read it on your own. Now there is some faculty support but a majority of it is do it on your own like the ISP pathway in Erie.

That being said those students in ISP and PCSP don't learn the same material as the students who go to lecture. That's a long story and I don't want to get into it.

I have friends in it who like the program but it remains to be seen if it is a good program because from my point of view you don't have the same amount of clinical experience as someone who completed 2 years of rotations as opposed to one. Not sure how program directors would look at this.

 

[calimeds]

Agreed. Shaving a year off med school sounds appealing, but I personally want to go through all the rotations and have the exposure to different specialties.

As for the independent science study - could you explain what you mean when you say they don't learn the same science as the students who take the lecture pathways? Are you saying there really is different material, or just implying that the exams are less difficult? Or something else?

 

[Slevin]

Basically it's difficult to teach the same clinical concepts to both, LDP students have clinicians come in and lecture to them but ISP students don't they have to learn everything out of a book. Now For the MSk system LDP did a majority on orthopedics while ISP spent most of their time on Rheumatology. Will it make a difference for boards I don't think so but I could be wrong

 

[Doctor Bob]

One thing you see over and over and over on these threads are residents and attendings telling pre-med students that they should expect to change their minds on what field they want to go into multiple times throughout medical school.

But this track, once you're in it, locks you into a few choices. I'd feel real sorry for the medical student who get into this track, and then sometime late in 2nd year or early in 3rd realized he/she was in love with... say... EM, but couldn't do it because of their schooling.

And if I was an primary care doc I'd be upset about this track because it seems to convey that FP/IM/Peds docs don't need to learn as much in school.

 

[MSUSpartan642]

And if I was an primary care doc I'd be upset about this track because it seems to convey that FP/IM/Peds docs don't need to learn as much in school.

I don't that the program would make anyone think that primary care docs need less training. It probably just takes out "unnecessary" rotations for their careers.

 

[Slevin]

I wouldn't say it's unnecessary because you gain clinical experience in areas you might not touch on again but that you can draw on the experience from later

 

[calimeds]

Been thinking more about this - I think a three year medical degree waters down the degree (if it cuts rotations, as this one does). Doctors want to make clear to everyone how much more training they have than NP's and PA's. A three year degree reduces the training disparity.

Also, I can't prove this, but since the science classes are done in even less time than a four year degree, I would bet the students get lower USMLE scores. But perhaps the school has thought strategically about this - primary care isn't competitive, so it doesn't matter if the scores are lower.

 

[peppy]

Anyone can do mediocre primary care work following some simple algorithms, but being a truly great family medicine doc requires a much broader base of knowledge than any other field. Considering that NPs and PAs can do so much of primary care nowadays you could argue that this three year track is just accepting the reality of how the field is practiced nowadays, but I think that it is a step in the wrong direction myself.
Eventually maybe someone will open a med school that you can attend part-time on weekends.

 

[Slevin]

Been thinking more about this - I think a three year medical degree waters down the degree (if it cuts rotations, as this one does). Doctors want to make clear to everyone how much more training they have than NP's and PA's. A three year degree reduces the training disparity.

Also, I can't prove this, but since the science classes are done in even less time than a four year degree, I would bet the students get lower USMLE scores. But perhaps the school has thought strategically about this - primary care isn't competitive, so it doesn't matter if the scores are lower.

USMLE scores I'm not sure about those, the school hasn't released the data on the first class who did the program and took the COMLEX last year.

Also they don't cut down on the basic sciences classes, the PCSP students take classes over the summer so the only place that they cut down time is during the 4th year rotations.

 

[Just Joshin]

Texas Tech wants to take credit for inventing such a program.

http://news.yahoo.com/s/prweb/20100324/bs_prweb/prweb3763794_1

 

[calimeds]

Texas Tech is allopathic right?

 

[Slevin]

Texas Tech is allopathic right?

Well that's just ****. cause LECOM had it starting back with the class of 2007-2008. What a bunch of horse ****

 

[JRjcu08]

Maybe someone should contact

Suzanna Cisneros Martinez
suzanna.martinez(at)ttuhsc(dot)edu

to let them know they aren't as ground-breaking as they assert.

 

[The Virginian]

Texas Tech wants to take credit for inventing such a program.

http://news.yahoo.com/s/prweb/20100324/bs_prweb/prweb3763794_1

Some years ago, ETSU-QCOM had a program that allowed students to begin their first year of Family Medicine residency at the beginning of their fourth year of school. The student would graduate medical school at the end of four years but would have only two more years of residency to be board eligible.

I can't recall the term they used for the program or students, but I do recall that they had to be at the top of their class to be considered for admission to the program.

 

[WestcoastMedicine]

How to they assure they are only entering a primary care field?

Also, how do they define it, just FP, or FP, Peds, IM?

If you go into Peds or IM only 50% of the graduates are doing primary care. If you do fellowship and are an adult gastro or a pediatric endocrinologist that is def not primary care. What systems are in place to ensure they are not going to fellowship?

 

[bleeker10]

The PCSP program is for people who want to go into FP, general peds or general IM. The only fellowship you can do is geriatrics or OMM. So you cannot subspecialize in cards or GI for a certain amount of years after residency. The students go through the summer and are done with basic sciences in March of their second year. Then they go and do rotations. They do have a surgery rotation but it is only a month long instead of two. Here is an article that explains it better

http://www.physiciansnews.com/2009/...curriculum-to-encourage-primary-care-careers/

 

[Donvb]

I have friends in it who like the program but it remains to be seen if it is a good program because from my point of view you don't have the same amount of clinical experience as someone who completed 2 years of rotations as opposed to one. Not sure how program directors would look at this.

To be completely honest most "Primary Care" residencies will take anyone who has a decent personality and can ultimately PASS the boards... They don't care what pathway you took, if you tell them your interested in family medicine they'll be drooling all over you.

 

[Donvb]

Basically it's difficult to teach the same clinical concepts to both, LDP students have clinicians come in and lecture to them but ISP students don't they have to learn everything out of a book. Now For the MSk system LDP did a majority on orthopedics while ISP spent most of their time on Rheumatology. Will it make a difference for boards I don't think so but I could be wrong

Board scores are about what you do OUTSIDE of lecture/class studying... All lecture pathways (PBL, ISP, LDP) had students that scored 600+, and all pathways had students that failed. The recent PCSP class did struggle some with the COMLEX II test, but it's hard to compare because a class of 4 students could vary greatly based on the individual... In a class of 150 LDP students the outliers get washed out.

 

[punkiedad]

A couple of follow ups to above posts:

The first class that is graduating this year all matched to their first choice.

As far as family medicine residencies taking anyone.....I can't really comment on that as, I still have a couple years yet, but just remember, it is the family practice docs that will refer their patients to the specialists. So, not to get defensive but, to each their own.

The only approved fellowships are OMM and geriatrics. When you join PCSP you have to sign a contract staing you will pay them the full year tuition if you do not stay in primary care, as defined above, for a period of five years after residency.

As far as lacking on the classroom stuff, the PCSPers actually take the equivalent of an extra semester of OMM and will end up graduating with more credits than the other pathways. Additionally, exams also consist of essay questions in addition to the regular multiple choice exams. Also, in year two PCSPers have an oral portion to exams as well (to prepare you for the pimping you will get on rotations)

Also, if you are planning to attend LECOM in the fall, there are a series of meetings over the first 12 weeks that you can attend to talk and meet other people in the pathway, etc. to see if it is for you. This can help you determine if it is for you.

Overall, every pathway has its good and bad points. If you are POSITIVE you want to do primary care, it is pretty hard to pass up PCSP.