med school versus nursing school

jumpinjax

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    does anyone know the differences in nursing school and med school? i am debating on which field to go to np or md. most of the time i believe i cant make it through med school with 2 kids and a husband and will just go for an NP but others i think i can. anyone with expierence?
     

    NurseyK

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      Most importantly, they are 2 different models of study: a Nursing model and a Medical model. Each has a different approach to the same problem (pt treatment). NP uses a Nursing model.

      Other points: NP is a Masters level program. You must receive your RN before acceptance into the pgm. You must hold a B.S. in Nursing (at least at all the schools I've known/contacted). An NP's scope of practice is different than an MD/DO, in addition to different practice limitations in each State. Reimbursement issues are still a hassle.

      My advice stays pretty the same around here....only you can make the decision that is right for you and your family; either one of your "plans" is do-able. You need to shadow an NP and a MD/DO to get a feel for what each job entails. Ask a lot of questions. Decide on how you see yourself practicing in the future (level of responsibilty comes to mind first, along with independent practice issues that vary from State to State).

      Best of luck.

      Kat :)
       

      tedsadoc2002

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        Hi

        I agree with what Kat said and will add on to it. I am not sure if you have a degree or not but you will have to do the following: complete a bacheolor of science degree in nursing (if you choose this route), if you have a degree already, you could apply some of your previously earned credits toward the nursing degree and possibly complete the requirements in 2 years (BSN degree), if you do not then it is a 4 year program. To become a nurse practitioner you will need to enroll in a Master's program. Be aware that many of these programs require you to have at least 1-2 years of work experience before you are formally accepted into the program (IOW, they will let you take some of the minor courses before you get your 2 yrs. work experience, but that is a miniscule portion of the degree requirement, perhaps no more than 6 of the 45+ credits you need to get your MS or MA) and they may require the GRE or MAT. The Master's program can be completed (full-time) in 2 years (a lot of work and it is time intensive, not much in the way of testing, more emphasis on writing papers) or up to 5 years part-time. Included in there somewhere are your clinical experiences.
        If you go the med school route (again depending on degree) you may be able to take the sciences considered to be prerequisites for med school or (if no degree) you can major in anything you'd like but include those sciences in your schedule. The MCAT is required before entrance. The schedule is rigorous in med school (I know personally about both nursing and med school because I've done them both) but I do have at least 2 classmates (one with 3 school age children and husband) and they have been and are doing well (it was hard) and we'll all be graduating (barring any unforeseen circumstances) in May of '02. Both of these professions will require a bit of sacrifice. But as Kat mentioned in her post, shadow people in each profession so you can get a better idea. If you don't know anyone personally, get recommendations from friends or from the local schools (med/nursing). Good luck on your decision.
        Sorry about the long post
         
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        Freeeedom!

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          Listen, nursing school and medical school are worlds apart. Physicians must pass 3 sets of boards to be licensed, then attend a residency, then pass board certification which in many cases has an oral portion...all of this added to 4 years of medical training, which is the most intense stuff imaginable. I had a graduate degree prior to attending med school and the amount of intense studying is a far cry from my Masters. Yet the challenge is wonderful.
          Entrance into the two fields is vastly different as well. The GRE was a breeze compared to the MCAT...let alone the hoops needed to jump through to get Med school interviews.
          But once again I state, the challenge has been wonderful. And the prospects are exciting.
          A friend of mine who recently graduated from Law School told me candidly, that these new physician extenders (PA's , Nurse Practitionors) are soon to be a liability. They are law suits waiting to happen, and many lawyers ARE WAITING.
           

          Gremlin

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            There are programs in which you can pursue your MSN with a diverse bachelor's degree. Some nursing schools have "bridge programs." I have just been accepted into one at Case Western Reserve. I have a bachelors degree in biology and chemistry. This bridge program will let me obtain my RN in 2 years, then an MSN in one additional year. The program I am in is a ND program (doctor of nursing) and this degree is obtained in your fourth year. I, too, considered medical school but did not feel that I could juggle a family and the demands of the MD path.

            Good luck, and as far as NP's and PA's becoming a liability in the near future--that does not seem likely. My husband is a lawyer and does not agree with that statement for a wide variety of reasons (that I had sit and listen to), so don't let that deter you.
             

            Freeeedom!

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              Well, the only reason I mentioned the legal issue was because my friend had to defend 2 PA's in a short period of time. And with the recent increase in the public's and lawyer's fascination with medical mistakes...a floodgate may open. Considering a PA's/NP's position under a physician, and typically hired by a physician, an additional liability my cause concern. No physician wants to be sued due to a PA's or NP's mistake.
              Sorry about the vague previous post.
               

              mj

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                I think you have been given some great info. I just wanted to add that there is a lot of advice about med school and having kids floating around that would be worth checking out if that is your biggest consideration in not going MD.

                IMHO, the worst thing you can do is "settle" for a career that is less than what you dream of. You won't be doing either your family or your profession any real favors.

                mj
                 
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                ckent

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                  Originally posted by jumpinjax:
                  •does anyone know the differences in nursing school and med school? i am debating on which field to go to np or md. most of the time i believe i cant make it through med school with 2 kids and a husband and will just go for an NP but others i think i can. anyone with expierence?•

                  Actually I have a classmate with 2 kids and a husband, she seems to be doing fine at my school. She finished studying everyday by 4pm during 1st year, she said that having a family made her more efficient. It's definitely possible, if you really want it you should go for it.
                   
                  D

                  different strokes

                    Originally posted by Freeeedom!:
                    •Listen, nursing school and medical school are worlds apart. Physicians must pass 3 sets of boards to be licensed, then attend a residency, then pass board certification which in many cases has an oral portion...all of this added to 4 years of medical training, which is the most intense stuff imaginable. I had a graduate degree prior to attending med school and the amount of intense studying is a far cry from my Masters. Yet the challenge is wonderful.
                    Entrance into the two fields is vastly different as well. The GRE was a breeze compared to the MCAT...let alone the hoops needed to jump through to get Med school interviews.
                    But once again I state, the challenge has been wonderful. And the prospects are exciting.
                    A friend of mine who recently graduated from Law School told me candidly, that these new physician extenders (PA's , Nurse Practitionors) are soon to be a liability. They are law suits waiting to happen, and many lawyers ARE WAITING.•
                     

                    guylon07

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                      OK here we go. This is my first post on here in a while and I just thought that I would drop in my 2 cents. Well, I have done both. I have been a nurse for some time now and I began medical school last year. I withdrew from med school at the end of the year because of family issues. I was doing well in medical school, but my wife was pregnant and was having some difficulties with the pregnancy and her job. So I thought it more important to get back to work and support my family.
                      Well to get to the point. I am not going to go back to medical school, I am starting a masters in nursing program here in my home state. I can't see going through all of the time, effort, and MONEY required of medical school with a family and at my age. I was just dead set on being a doctor for so long I was blind to all that was required as far as the time commitment until I was actually there. I work in a teaching facility and I see so many residents spend countless hours in the hospitals and miss thier kids childhood years. We were not expecting to have children, and like I said I did not even think about that aspect until I was there and had a child on the way. Don't get me wrong. There are many students who go through medical school, and residency with families. I just did some heavy soul searching and decided I did not want to do that.
                      However, I found medical school (the school part) to be somewhat easier than a masters program. This was because I am much better at studying the basic sciences and then being tested rather than writing paper after paper. It all boils down to what you are good at and what you really want to do in your life. DON'T GO INTO MEDICAL SCHOOL FOR THE MONEY! Drs are not getting paid what they used to. The AVG. family pract. sal in my state last year was 100,000. Now that sounds like a lot of money but that is avg. so someone made 50,000 and when you look at paying back 33,000 in loans every year and then your overhead and malpractice etc. that does not leave much.
                      My wife is a NP in a specialty field and she makes as much as the family practice docs do. Now if you want to go into a specialty out of med school you can make some more money but that takes more time once again.
                      FREEDOM, I have to say I agree with you most of the time. However, I feel you are way off on this one. The NP fields are growing like crazy depending upon what state you are in. Where I was going to school my wife could not find a job to save her life, but when we moved back here people were calling her, and like I said earlier she has been working there less than a year and making excellent money. As far as the law suit thing goes, I don't believe it. Drs are not going to hire someone they do not trust to work under them, and the Dr. is not soley responsible. Thats why my wife has to have malpractice insurance. So a few PA's and NP's get sued. I mean Drs. could also get sued for something their nurse does also, they aren't going to get rid of RN's. Look at how many Drs. are sued every day, and if you are in a group practice as a doc the entire practice can get sued. We have these wonderful lawyers and our judicial system to thank for that! Well once again it just boils down to what you want to do. Medicine and nursing are two different worlds. I have been to both and I know. They are like land and water. They coexist with one another but they are two different worlds with different thoughts. So find what you like and go with it. There are ample opportunities in both areas.
                      JK
                       
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                      Freeeedom!

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                        I have no idea what med school you went to, but for someone to say "Yeah, I dropped out, but it was easy anyway" is such a crock of ****! Guy, until you've gone through both academic years, took all the tests, did your rotations, and took step 1,2 ...then don't go saying "yeah, it was cake". That is *****ic.

                        As far as salaries go...perhaps a first year out of residency doc, makes 100k, but I have worked with 3 FP docs that all cleared 200k. And my attending was making 300k. He was just a simple FP. No big deal. How do I know? He bluntly told me.
                        This argument is silly...very silly.
                         

                        guylon07

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                          Hey FREEDOM, lighten up! I never said med school was easy. I said I found it easier than a masters program because of all of the paper writing. It was hard as hell but I am better at studying facts and being tested on it than writing paper after paper. As for the saleries. Don't be one of these jackasses who believe that Drs make all of the money in the world. You can make a enormous amount of money as a doc. However, I was noting the AVG. SALARY for a family pract. doc here in my state last year! In 1997 national avg. for fam prac was 130,000 Not all docs in general, and Peds was even less than that. If you look at the time and energy these docs put into these practices that is not a lot of money. Insurance, HMO's, malpractice, lawyers etc.. have put a hurt on physicians in general. Hey you have only been on one side of the fence. This post started with someone asking about both medicine and nursing. Yes I only went through one year of medical school, but I help or make decisions for the residents and attendings every time I go to work. So I know how it goes. You may have one more year of experience in the class room, but I have years of more experience in the hospital. So don't you dare jump on me and call me *****ic!
                          I apologize to everyone else for this interuption!
                          JK
                           

                          Freeeedom!

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                            Wow, I don't remember you walking around with me in the hospital prior to Med school? hmmm. You seem to make assumptions about your experience vs mine. Well, I am NOT under 30, and I did work as a professional in a hospital prior to med school. I DID recieve a graduate degree and I AM finishing med school.
                            Got it? Or should I repeat myself?
                             

                            bubbas2

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                              Three things need to be consider in choosing between advanced nursing and medical school.

                              Time:
                              NP is on average a 2 year graduate degree commmitment verses minimum 7 for medical school/residency. The last 3 being the most intense. You will work 80-100 hours per week in residency. There is no showing up late because the kids are sick, or being ill. Medical school is routinly done by 30-50 year old students with families. Not unusual. If you enjoy a certain field then fellowship will add another 3 years to the training. 2 versus 7-10 after a bachelors. Consider your overall life goals.

                              Workweek:
                              NP/PA work on average 40 hour work week. There are exceptions to any rule. Attending physicians work on average 60-65 hours per week. This well published and easily accessible on the internet.

                              Afterhours:
                              The vast, vast majority of NP/PA have no "on-call" where they either cover the hospital at night or can be called in. Depending on the specialty/work place this can be as frequent as every 3rd-4th night to once a month. THis is in addition to a 60 hour workweek.

                              I merely state these facts because noone really told them to me before I started the whole process. I'm in my 6th year of training after a bachelors and have 5 left after this year.
                               
                              D

                              different strokes

                                As far as attending physicians go, I know a psychiatrist that does not work more than 30 hours per week. HE TELLS ALL OF HIS PATIENTS THAT HE IS NOT AVAILABLE FOR CRISIS CALLS OR CRISIS VISITS. HE IS DEFINETELY NOT AVAILABLE AFTER HOURS. HE HAS A NICE LIFE!!!!
                                 

                                PimplePopperMD

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                                  The fields of practice are different. One can tell that med students are in this discussion by virtue of the inherent competitiveness of the discourse. But take a step back...

                                  Nurses are different than doctors. The duties are different, the jobs are different, and the training is different. They oftentimes work in the same place; ie hospital. They are part of an integrated team.

                                  Nurse practitioners also have a different scope of practice. Better? Worse? Whatever. It's different.

                                  PAs too. With respect to $$, I know that this PA makes more than his sister, who is an MD.

                                  Better? Worse? More difficult? Easy as cake?

                                  Come on, folks. You'll find, when you grow up, that what's better for you may not be "better" inherently. What's more difficult isn't necessarily more impressive. And status ain't worth a dime.

                                  I chose to become a physician because I am excited about medicine, about being a detective diagnostician, primary decisionmaker for patients health, helping the patient decide a treatment plan, etc etc. Those who want to go into nursing would want something different from the above. Is what I want "better" than what a nurse wants?

                                  Ridiculous.

                                  My advice for anyone who wants to be a health care provider: find out about each job, and pick the RIGHT ONE FOR YOU. Think about what's important to you: your lifestyle, your family, your kids (even in the future!), your job fufillment, your responsibilities, the challenge, etc etc. Because I truly DON'T think that being a doctor is BEST. I do know it's best for ME.
                                   
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                                  bubbas2

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                                    I'm stating the facts. For some reason I minizimed the time after med school as a lump sum of time that would pass, thinking med school was the big hurdle. Little did I know that a 3 year residency would then turn into cheif year then a 3 year fellowship. Not complaining. I wouldn't trade it but I did get "blind sided". This is something that the person who started this discussion should know. The answer to their question is more complex than 2 years of adv. nursing verses 4 of med. school.
                                     
                                    D

                                    different strokes

                                      There is prestige in nursing too. I think this is especially so with psychiatric nursing.

                                      A friend of mine, a psych RN is a program director for a crisis response project. All program managers are below her. Below these people are team leaders. Below the team leaders are the regular staff people such as social workers, shelter workers, suicide hotline phone room supervisors and workers. She is in charge of everyone. She trains supervisors how to train those below them. She does all hiring and firing. She is the head honcho. But, she hardly has time for a social life.
                                       

                                      trouserz

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                                        hey all..... im a nursing student. I am way more interested in medicine than nursing. I feel my situation is like being a guy in a girl's body (with nice boobs heh heh) anyway i have done much research into nps vs mds and i have concluded that we are making wayyyyyyyyy too many nurse practitioners. Nursing schools are putting them out like toy soldiers. Plus in ny state (have done no research about other states) the avg np salary is in the low to mid 40s. I know some nurses with associate degrees in the icu with more money. The only way i would become an np is if i were going to get a phd subsequent to becoming a np to do nursing research and teach. (That by the way can earn u BIG bucks if you are good at research) By the way nps are wayyy better than pas..... more autonomy, more practical, usually have masters degrees with post graduate education, also focus on the patient more. BUT MDS still remain to be the head honchos in health care... (Soo high they don't feel that they need to wash their hands between patients) i think nursing is easy and i feel they teach too much medicine that you don't even use.... if u become any advanced practitioner please!!!! work where u are really needed rural and urban medicine needs UU!!!!!!!!! email me at [email protected]
                                         

                                        FCMike11

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                                          Medical school vs Nursing school?
                                          When we write it like that Medical school = 500x more difficult (I presume) from reading curriculum.

                                          I was pretty bored in nursing school, only made 2 B's throughout the entirety ADN program, I read further than I needed too (always wanted to know patho and things at a more descript level) and nursing school seldom warranted that...but safe to say I was always prepared for what they threw at me.

                                          Like everyone else has repeated, do what is right for you...because if you are willing to put the work/time/effort/blood/sweat for the short term sacrifice it will benefit you in the long run.
                                           

                                          FCMike11

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                                            By the way nps are wayyy better than pas..... more autonomy, more practical, usually have masters degrees with post graduate education, also focus on the patient more.

                                            Um what? lmao. Not going to bite and turn this into "that" thread....but lmao!!
                                            Im not sure what you actually know or why you think that...

                                            hey all..... im a nursing student.

                                            That actually explains it, sorry for the misunderstanding. :D

                                            EDIT: Hah an looking back realizing how old this post was.
                                             
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