Med schools don't care about abuse of illegal drugs?

[novawildcat]

So is it just me, or do med schools simply not care or completely ignore the ridiculous amount of drug abuse by med school students? We are completely ignoring the enormous amount of binge drinking and MJ smoking (which med school students are well known to use) here. I started wondering who actually uses more coke--med school students or yuppie stock brokers on Wall Street? Let's also completely ignore the large amount of prescription drug abuse that goes on too. So do med schools simply not care, or are they that ignorant to what really goes on?

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[UVAbme2009]

Tell em why you're angry.

 

[chris1264]

marijuana should be legal and alcohol is

 

[URHere]

In some cases, I think schools genuinely don't care, and in other cases, they care but not enough to destroy the investment they have already made in their students.

In the case of marijuana, many schools (both undergraduate and medical) really just don't care. Medically, most people believe that marijuana really isn't any worse for a person than smoking cigarettes, so why should schools make a big fuss about it?

In the case of other illegal drugs, I know that some schools have policies where they grant immunity to students who come forward on their own to report drug use. In these cases, schools will send students to rehab, and never say a word to anyone again about the drug use. However, if students are caught using drugs, especially on school grounds or in a clinical setting, they will be removed from the program.

It is a shame that there is so much drug abuse among medical students, but I think that schools are looking out for themselves by only caring about drug use when it begins to really interfere with student learning and patient care.

 

[novawildcat]

marijuana should be legal and alcohol is

That's why we are ignoring med school students' rampant use of those two items. I seriously don't know which group does more coke, med school students or yuppie wall st. stock brokers.

 

[JA Prufrock]

That's why we are ignoring med school students' rampant use of those two items. I seriously don't know which group does more coke, med school students or yuppie wall st. stock brokers.

yeah you used that line already

 

[Depakote]

That's why we are ignoring med school students' rampant use of those two items. I seriously don't know which group does more coke, med school students or yuppie wall st. stock brokers.

Coke, eh? and here I was strung out on meth... I'll never be the cool kid at the party.

 

[ANF1986]

Drug prohibition is not a concern for public safety and only a tool to attempt to legislate morality. It's the work of right wing Christian conservatives to try and inject their conception of morality onto the American public. Alcohol&tobacco kill more people than all illicit drugs combined. This thread topic is completely pointless. Are those people affecting you? Advice to the OP, worry about yourself and mind your own business.

 

[Law2Doc]

So is it just me,

Yes, it's just you. Med schools take drug abuse quite seriously, as does the profession. Which is why some places have started drug testing and others are likely to join the bandwagon.

 

[njbmd]

So is it just me, or do med schools simply not care or completely ignore the ridiculous amount of drug abuse by med school students? We are completely ignoring the enormous amount of binge drinking and MJ smoking (which med school students are well known to use) here. I started wondering who actually uses more coke--med school students or yuppie stock brokers on Wall Street? Let's also completely ignore the large amount of prescription drug abuse that goes on too. So do med schools simply not care, or are they that ignorant to what really goes on?

If you are not a user, why are you so worried? Have you been robbed by a "strung-out, coke-crazed" medical student? Do you fear for your personal safety as you walk the halls?

Yes, it's just you. Med schools take drug abuse quite seriously, as does the profession. Which is why some places have started drug testing and others are likely to join the bandwagon.

Not to mention that most hospitals have a criminal background check and pre-employment screening that includes a drug screen. You can be graduated, matched and ready to move but fail the drug screen and you are toast. If you have anything that shows up, even prescribed, you had better produce the prescription or your "career dissipation light" will move into overdrive. It's serious out there and there are no "second chances". At my institution, we had to find replacements for three residents who "flunked" the drug screen.

 

[calnation]

Are there seriously that many coke-head med students? It's hard to imagine.

I'm sure drinking is rampant but I doubt the weed-smoking is over the top. I can't imagine a major pothead being able to get through med school, considering how much material is memorized.

 

[novawildcat]

If you are not a user, why are you so worried? Have you been robbed by a "strung-out, coke-crazed" medical student? Do you fear for your personal safety as you walk the halls?

Call me crazy, but if I were a patient who needed open heart surgery, I'd much rather have the doctor who wasn't getting f*cked up on coke, valium, alcohol, and weed all the time.

Yes, it's just you. Med schools take drug abuse quite seriously, as does the profession. Which is why some places have started drug testing and others are likely to join the bandwagon.

That is good to hear. But the problem is it is just some schools, not all schools.

Drug prohibition is not a concern for public safety and only a tool to attempt to legislate morality. It's the work of right wing Christian conservatives to try and inject their conception of morality onto the American public. Alcohol&tobacco kill more people than all illicit drugs combined. This thread topic is completely pointless. Are those people affecting you? Advice to the OP, worry about yourself and mind your own business.

This post is worthless since the topic isn't about whether or not drugs should or shouldn't be illegal.

 

[MilkmanAl]

Call me crazy, but if I were a patient who needed open heart surgery, I'd much rather have the doctor who wasn't getting f*cked up on coke, valium, alcohol, and weed all the time.

I guess this is me playing devil's advocate, but there's a gigantic difference between someone who smokes a couple joints on weekends and someone who gets high several times a day. Similarly, there's a big difference between someone who gets high on his own time and someone who comes to work intoxicated. I don't particularly care what my physicians do off the clock as long as it doesn't affect them directly or indirectly while they're on the job.

 

[DonkeyD]

Call me crazy, but if I were a patient who needed open heart surgery, I'd much rather have the doctor who wasn't getting f*cked up on coke, valium, alcohol, and weed all the time.
QUOTE]

thank you captain obvious

and the wall street guys I know do way more drugs than my medical school classmates

 

[Depakote]

Call me crazy, but if I were a patient who needed open heart surgery, I'd much rather have the doctor who wasn't getting f*cked up on coke, valium, alcohol, and weed all the time.

ok, seriously... where are you getting your info?

 

[Chemdude]

Drug prohibition is not a concern for public safety and only a tool to attempt to legislate morality. It's the work of right wing Christian conservatives to try and inject their conception of morality onto the American public. Alcohol&tobacco kill more people than all illicit drugs combined. This thread topic is completely pointless. Are those people affecting you? Advice to the OP, worry about yourself and mind your own business.

Drug prohibition is a concern for public safety and not a tool to "legislate morality". Drug use is positively correlated with crime rates and degrades the general wellbeing of a community. So, if you allow Drug usage at Medical schools, you are going to see a rise in other problems at medical schools.

 

[novawildcat]

ok, seriously... where are you getting your info?

From what I see at med school.

 

[MilkmanAl]

From what I see at med school.

Psst...that was a joke.

 

[Chemdude]

ok, seriously... where are you getting your info?

Actually, a couple of years ago, a doctor at a local hospital went on a rampage and killed a nurse/himself while he was intoxicated.

 

[ANF1986]

Call me crazy, but if I were a patient who needed open heart surgery, I'd much rather have the doctor who wasn't getting f*cked up on coke, valium, alcohol, and weed all the time.






That is good to hear. But the problem is it is just some schools, not all schools.




This post is worthless since the topic isn't about whether or not drugs should or shouldn't be illegal.

My post was completely relevant. The OP should spend less time worrying about what activities and substances responsible adults CHOOSE to put into their own bodies at their leisure. So long as it is having no negative or deleterious effect on the OP, it is NONE OF THE OP's BUSINESS OR CONCERN. Posts like the OP's illustrate the over riding point that laws in our country have gone entirely too far in limiting personal liberty and individual decision making.

Furthermore, there is a large amount of evidence which indicates that the tertiary crimes&violence you see surrounding drug use is a direct result of the substances being prohibited. Feel free to do your own research, and not swallow the heavily biased opinions that you hear on the news every night at 6pm. My post is in no way advocating the use of such substances, but rather the ability to CHOOSE whether or not using them is a responsible decision. That choice should NOT be up to the government.

 

[Chemdude]

So are you suggesting a "Holland-style" solution to our drug problem?

 

[Depakote]

Actually, a couple of years ago, a doctor at a local hospital went on a rampage and killed a nurse/himself while he was intoxicated.

I saw an intoxicated med student the other day who didn't go on a rampage. He didn't kill a single person. Clearly we're even.

 

[MilkmanAl]

Hey, I wasn't that drunk. I wasn't anywhere near rampage level. It was more like mild violence and obscenity level.

 

[Chemdude]

I saw an intoxicated med student the other day who didn't go on a rampage. He didn't kill a single person. Clearly we're even.

lol. Point taken.

One person going on a rampage because they are intoxicated is too many. So, irrespective of whether or not you saw an intoxicated student not harming anyone, intoxication did cause a Doctor at a local hospital to go on a rampage.

 

[DrYoda]

lol. Point taken.

One person going on a rampage because they are intoxicated is too many. So, irrespective of whether or not you saw an intoxicated student not harming anyone, intoxication did cause a Doctor at a local hospital to go on a rampage.

Being intoxicated and going on a rampage doesn't he went on a rampage because he was intoxicated. Most likely he was just nuts.

 

[timurx]

Although I personally don't use illegal/rx drugs, if there is one thing I've realized since starting med school, its that we definitely hold med students to a higher standard...basically, that they are expected to be moral role models in all aspects of their lives (not just professionally speaking)...this idealism soon devolves as you soon realize that the scary fact that my classmates are occasional druggies becomes secondary compared to the even scarier fact that some of these people are even gonna be real, live, breathing, rx-writing physicians.

Not mention for the most part, once you get your foot in the door, there's no regular check-up on students to make sure they're "behaving" properly...no time, no $, nothing. Just sweep it under the rug and pretend like those behaviors just don't happen in the "morally sound" profession of medicine.

Maybe we should stop holding med students to a higher standard and just treat them like any other student? Maybe, but the problem is the moment we stop glorifying the medical profession is the moment its attractiveness disappears and we probably let more "problem" students through. Its a tough call.

 

[Depakote]

lol. Point taken.

One person going on a rampage because they are intoxicated is too many. So, irrespective of whether or not you saw an intoxicated student not harming anyone, intoxication did cause a Doctor at a local hospital to go on a rampage.

It takes far more than intoxication to drive someone to murder/suicide. There had to be some serious stress and mental health issues at play. Alcohol would just be something to lower the inhibition.

 

[nVictus]

what? it's bad to use coke?

i was doing lines with my interviewer. true story.

 

[novawildcat]

Although I personally don't use illegal/rx drugs, if there is one thing I've realized since starting med school, its that we definitely hold med students to a higher standard...basically, that they are expected to be moral role models in all aspects of their lives (not just professionally speaking)...this idealism soon devolves as you soon realize that the scary fact that my classmates are occasional druggies becomes secondary compared to the even scarier fact that some of these people are even gonna be real, live, breathing, rx-writing physicians.

Not mention for the most part, once you get your foot in the door, there's no regular check-up on students to make sure they're "behaving" properly...no time, no $, nothing. Just sweep it under the rug and pretend like those behaviors just don't happen in the "morally sound" profession of medicine.

Maybe we should stop holding med students to a higher standard and just treat them like any other student? Maybe, but the problem is the moment we stop glorifying the medical profession is the moment its attractiveness disappears and we probably let more "problem" students through. Its a tough call.

I concur.

 

[45408]

That's why we are ignoring med school students' rampant use of those two items. I seriously don't know which group does more coke, med school students or yuppie wall st. stock brokers.

If you're even remotely serious, the correct answer is stock brokers. I don't know anyone who uses coke in my class, but I'm afraid that a family member of mine does, and guess what? Works in the stock exchange.

 

[Chemdude]

Being intoxicated and going on a rampage doesn't he went on a rampage because he was intoxicated. Most likely he was just nuts.

True. That could have been a possibility, or:

Intoxication could have caused the doctor's rampage, but that doesn't necessarily mean that intoxication always causes other people to go berserk; not all rampages are caused by intoxication.

The doctor could have been crazy or lost control because he was intoxicated. Either way, intoxication isn't good at a hospital setting because it could cause potential problems.

 

[JaggerPlate]

I seriously don't know which group does more coke ... yuppie wall st. stock brokers.

What is this, 1985??? I think you're trolling here Patrick Bateman.

 

[njbmd]

Call me crazy, but if I were a patient who needed open heart surgery, I'd much rather have the doctor who wasn't getting f*cked up on coke, valium, alcohol, and weed all the time.

Better be sure that you demand a drug test of your physicians every time that you see them. You never know what they are smoking, drinking or snorting. You can even carry those little urine containers in your backpack and have them give you a sample when you hit the office. Be sure to have a good reference lab that will get the results back to you in a timely fashion so that you don't die waiting.

 

[mmmcdowe]

Where do you go to med school? Forgive me, but I can't say I've ever known or heard of a med student going on a coke binge. Are we talking about the ultra rich kids who got in because of daddy or something? The only drug I know thats rampant in med schools is ADD drugs. Sure, people drink in medical school, but I'm from Arizona State and wild medical students are modest social drinkers from my point of view.

 

[novawildcat]

Where do you go to med school? Forgive me, but I can't say I've ever known or heard of a med student going on a coke binge. Are we talking about the ultra rich kids who got in because of daddy or something? The only drug I know thats rampant in med schools is ADD drugs. Sure, people drink in medical school, but I'm from Arizona State and wild medical students are modest social drinkers from my point of view.

A Philly school.


Some schools might be worse with substance abuse than others.

The med students that I see snorting coke almost every other weekend typically fall into these categories:

-single

-below the age of 25/26

-male, middle class or wealthy


A typical day with them after a huge test consists of drinking a case of beer before going out (case of beer for 5 or 6 people), then going out and doing 3 or 4 shots, and 8+ beers at the bar. And to top the night off when you get back you snort some coke.


The weekends are almost the same.

 

[Law2Doc]

True. That could have been a possibility, or:

Intoxication could have caused the doctor's rampage, but that doesn't necessarily mean that intoxication always causes other people to go berserk; not all rampages are caused by intoxication.

Most likely the person was deranged, and as a comorbidity also used alcohol. You will learn in psych that folks with mental issues very very very often also abuse drugs and alcohol. The drugs and alcohol don't cause the mental issues. The same people who have such mental issues simply tend to gravitate toward substances far more frequently than the general public. So it's extremely common for a crazy person to also be drunk when he acts crazy, but generally the alcohol use is coincidence, not cause. It impairs judgment but doesn't typically cause anyone to go on an intentional killing spree (they may kill folks by accident, but that's not the same at all); people who do this had instability long before they took a drink. If that were the case (that alcohol causes people to go on rampages), alcohol would have been banned centuries ago. In fact, it does not have such properties.

 

[chiz2kul]

Drug prohibition is not a concern for public safety and only a tool to attempt to legislate morality. It's the work of right wing Christian conservatives to try and inject their conception of morality onto the American public. Alcohol&tobacco kill more people than all illicit drugs combined. This thread topic is completely pointless. Are those people affecting you? Advice to the OP, worry about yourself and mind your own business.

One of the most meaningless pointless and irrelevant responses i've read on sdn.

 

[ANF1986]

A Philly school.


Some schools might be worse with substance abuse than others.

The med students that I see snorting coke almost every other weekend typically fall into these categories:

-single

-below the age of 25/26

-male, middle class or wealthy


A typical day with them after a huge test consists of drinking a case of beer before going out (case of beer for 5 or 6 people), then going out and doing 3 or 4 shots, and 8+ beers at the bar. And to top the night off when you get back you snort some coke.


The weekends are almost the same.

So, otherwise intelligent responsible adults, engaging in behaviors which you find morally repugnant, and affecting no one but themselves in the process. Help me to understand 1)how this impacts your life? and 2)why their choices are any of your business?

It sounds to me like their rampant drinking is what would POTENTIALLY pose a greater danger if they decided to get behind the wheel of a vehicle in that inebriated state. However, since they are at a school in Philly (and so am I), they most likely take a cab or the subway like everyone else. So moving on, they are "topping their night off" with an illegal substance. I'm taking that to mean they do their thing, sit around whacked for a little bit, and then goto bed. Yea, I can really see where the danger to society is in that. Are they pressuring you to participate in their bad behavior? If not, what is your complaint, I really just fail to see how this impacts you.

I goto school in Philly, and I know people who engage in the exact same behavior. However, I dont even consume alcohol (one of the worst substances for the human body). And guess what? Most people think its pretty cool and respectable that I dont drink or do anything else, and they never pressure me to participate.

 

[novawildcat]

So, otherwise intelligent responsible adults, engaging in behaviors which you find morally repugnant, and affecting no one but themselves in the process. Help me to understand 1)how this impacts your life? and 2)why their choices are any of your business?

It sounds to me like their rampant drinking is what would POTENTIALLY pose a greater danger if they decided to get behind the wheel of a vehicle in that inebriated state. However, since they are at a school in Philly (and so am I), they most likely take a cab or the subway like everyone else. So moving on, they are "topping their night off" with an illegal substance. I'm taking that to mean they do their thing, sit around whacked for a little bit, and then goto bed. Yea, I can really see where the danger to society is in that. Are they pressuring you to participate in their bad behavior? If not, what is your complaint, I really just fail to see how this impacts you.

I goto school in Philly, and I know people who engage in the exact same behavior. However, I dont even consume alcohol (one of the worst substances for the human body). And guess what? Most people think its pretty cool and respectable that I dont drink or do anything else, and they never pressure me to participate.

Are you really that dense? Do you not fail to see the potential HUGE liability that behaviors like this pose? And WHERE DID I EVER say that I find behaviors like that "morally repugnant". I don't care what other people do to their body, but what I do care about is the fact that some of our FUTURE PHYSICIANS, the very people that we are supposed to trust with our health, are out there engaging in activities that they could be come addicted to for life.

 

[Nevadanteater]

Use does not equal abuse.

Period.

And coke sucks anyways...

 

[Law2Doc]

(one of the worst substances for the human body).

Just to nitpick, actually alcohol in small moderation has cardiovascular benefits. It is only one of the worst substances for the body if used in excess.

See eg.
Nutr Metab Cardiovasc Dis. 2000 Apr;10(2):63-9.Links, "Beneficial effects of a moderate consumption of red wine on cellular cholesterol efflux in young men.", Senault C, Betoulle D, Luc G, Hauw P, Rigaud D, Fumeron F.

 

[ANF1986]

Just to nitpick, actually alcohol in small moderation has cardiovascular benefits. It is only one of the worst substances for the body if used in excess.

See eg.
Nutr Metab Cardiovasc Dis. 2000 Apr;10(2):63-9.Links, "Beneficial effects of a moderate consumption of red wine on cellular cholesterol efflux in young men.", Senault C, Betoulle D, Luc G, Hauw P, Rigaud D, Fumeron F.

Yeaaaaa....I knew I should have clarified that point. Good job calling me out on it however. Though I really wanted to avoid 'advocating' anything because I'm sure we could talk about how other 'substances' have benefits. Lets just for conversations sake be honest and say that the way that the majority of people use alcohol is not in moderation.

Novawildcat...You need to calm down with your responses. I've addressed you respectfully and responded to your posts in the same manner. I'm simply pointing out a dissenting viewpoint to the ALL BAD argument that you're putting forth. There are people who become addicted, and there are people who dont. Just as there are alcoholics and social drinkers. I'm advancing the argument that although you may not like the behavior, so long as they are doing it behind closed doors, in the privacy of their own homes, and it has no consequences for any other human beings, then it is not any of your concern. So long as they are not under the influence of mind altering substances while in class, seeing patients, in surgery, etc. Then who is the danger to? The individual engaging in the behavior and no one else.

 

[mbe36]

Is it as obvious to anyone else who the drug users in this thread are?

The worst thing about drugs is that they make you ignorant.

I love the people who will cut-throat debate for hours about how doing drugs will in no way effect care of your patients, as long as your are sober before you get to work. Engaging in drug abuse is brutal evidence of someone who has a glitch in their decision making process and is taking drastic/careless measures to remedy a part of their life in which they are not completely happy. These are not the hands in which I would want to place my life.

 

[ANF1986]

Is it as obvious to anyone else who the drug users in this thread are?

The worst thing about drugs is that they make you ignorant.

Equally as ignorant as believing that defending a persons right to make their own decisions=being a drug user. I can philosophically support these peoples right to make a decision without supporting the thing they are doing. I support a womans right to choose, but I dont advocate or support abortion. I support freedom of speech, but I dont agree with Nazi's or the KKK. I support the Article I writ of Habeas Corpus but dont advocate terrorism. Weak argument dude...

 

[Bacchus]

I really think you should be more concerrned for your classmates' health than the future patients. If they aren't intoxicated while on the floor then they pose no significant danger to a patient. Should we be doing drugs? No. I don't because of my moral base. However, to the students that are snorting lines, you should be preaching to them of how they're in danger of addiction or various health problems... not to the patients that they haven't seen yet. Medicine is a profession with a lot of cronyism. Speaking out and tarnishing your classmates and future colleagues' names is going to get you toasted, quickly.

 

[Depakote]

Is it as obvious to anyone else who the drug users in this thread are?

The worst thing about drugs is that they make you ignorant.

I love the people who will cut-throat debate for hours about how doing drugs will in no way effect care of your patients, as long as your are sober before you get to work. Engaging in drug abuse is brutal evidence of someone who has a glitch in their decision making process and is taking drastic/careless measures to remedy a part of their life in which they are not completely happy. These are not the hands in which I would want to place my life.

Is it me? ohh, I hope I've been stereotyped.

 

[tncekm]

Is it me? ohh, I hope I've been stereotyped.

Anybody with a grateful dead head in their avatar must be a drugged-up hippie... we've got your number, bud!

 

[mmmcdowe]

I see only one way to solve this debate.

Lets all gather round a kiloliter of Grey Goose and a couple hundred grams of coke. Last person standing wins the arguement and we can all go back to our business! Naturally, us anti coke users are at a disadvantage, but I feel that my rampant alcoholism might win the day .

Hugs for everybody, go check your email for acceptances.

 

[DrYoda]

Is it as obvious to anyone else who the drug users in this thread are?

The worst thing about drugs is that they make you ignorant.

I love the people who will cut-throat debate for hours about how doing drugs will in no way effect care of your patients, as long as your are sober before you get to work. Engaging in drug abuse is brutal evidence of someone who has a glitch in their decision making process and is taking drastic/careless measures to remedy a part of their life in which they are not completely happy. These are not the hands in which I would want to place my life.

Why ya gotta be hatin'?

What is this, 1985??? I think you're trolling here Patrick Bateman.

Well played.

 

[littlealex]

Alcohol is legal, and I don't know that many students that abuse it.

As for cocaine, let's be realistic here. Most of us are far too poor for that habit.