Med Schools that grant exemption for MCAT with PhD, PharmD, or DDS?

[MedicineNutt]

I've seen this with programs such as MPH or MBA or other graduate programs that offer test requirement exemptions to those who have completed graduate school. Do any medical schools offer such exemptions (for specifically the MCAT)?

I won't mention any opportunities I can pursue right now. However, I don't want to hear talk about how it's important to score well on the MCAT or to attend Caribbean schools...just get straight to the point...It's a yes or no. Elaborate if it's a yes though. Thanks!

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[brooklynblunder]

i vote No

 

[Ableton]

Nope.

While an advanced degree may be an asset in other advanced degree programs, it's nearly useless in medicine.

 

[URHere]

So far as I know, no. The exception would be some BS/MD programs that do not require the MCAT (but, if you aren't in one by this point, you are probably out of luck).

 

[MedicineNutt]

If it's no, that's too bad.

Someone with a PhD Biology or PhD Chemistry or PharmD or DDS/DMD etc. would have to waste valuable time studying for a "semi"-worthless test that has little to do with medical school? Even when they've proven to be capable of handling graduate school (at the doctorate level)...and probably have completed half or near all courses taken in the first 2 yrs of medical school?

Man...today...I was talking to one of my friends (a pharmacist) who said he's still trying to get into medical school but keeps getting rejected because of his MCAT score (which he keeps retaking). It really surprised me because he has such a good handle of anything medical-related and would make a GREAT doctor. Very disappointing.

I'm not trying to troll or anything. I was just hoping to get some information from here...and maybe if there is such thing, i would bring it up to him. however, maybe he's done his research so I don't know...

 

[demayette]

If it's no, that's too bad.

Someone with a PhD Biology or PhD Chemistry or PharmD or DDS/DMD etc. would have to waste valuable time studying for a "semi"-worthless test that has little to do with medical school? Even when they've proven to be capable of handling graduate school (at the doctorate level)...and probably have completed half or near all courses taken in the first 2 yrs of medical school?

Man...today...I was talking to one of my friends (a pharmacist) who said he's still trying to get into medical school but keeps getting rejected because of his MCAT score (which he keeps retaking). It really surprised me because he has such a good handle of anything medical-related and would make a GREAT doctor. Very disappointing.

As for now, that is how it is. Everybody has to take the MCAT... and the MCAT is a hell of a hard test. I dont think it is "semi-worthless" like you said. It is a test that give the adcoms somewhat an indication on how a student can handle the med school curiculum. I dont think a PhD in biology is more rigorous that med schoo curriculuml according to my research. a PhD in chemistry might be another story. I think if your friend was able to get into pharmacy school, he should be able to do OK in the mcat... A 3.4 GPA with a 26 MCAT will give your friend a decent chance at some DO schools providing that he does not have a problem with the DO degree.

 

[MedicineNutt]

As for now, that is how it is. Everybody has to take the MCAT... and the MCAT is a hell of a hard test. I dont think it is "semi-worthless" like you said. It is a test that give the adcoms somewhat an indication on how a student can handle the med school curiculum. I dont think a PhD in biology is more rigorous that med schoo curriculuml according to my research. a PhD in chemistry might be another story. I think if your friend was able to get into pharmacy school, he should be able to do OK in the mcat... A 3.4 GPA with a 26 MCAT will give your friend a decent chance at some DO schools providing that he does not have a problem with the DO degree.

Yeah, he told me he had no problems with the PCAT back in the day (I think he mentioned 80 percentile). However, his MCAT scores have been in the high teens to low 20s. He's even taken 2 prep classes - Princeton Review and Kaplan. Nothing works for him! It's really, really awkward. He's been applying to med school since the first year of pharmacy school...I'd say that's very persistent...a very dedicated person. I mean, his grades aren't terrible (3.5ish) and his experiences are great (lots of volunteering). A very very capable person. He just passed his boards last month as well...and is now working as a registered pharmacist at a hospital in the local area.

Anyway, he's been rejected by every school this cycle (not even an interview)...Not sure if he mentioned applying to DO schools though. I'll bring that up next time I see him. A very unique story indeed.

 

[KingstonPre]

No.

Standardized Testing = Fairness.

 

[MedicineNutt]

No.

Standardized Testing = Fairness.

lol or lack of fairness. i realize in this forum we only hear one side...there's forums and professional opinions who will disagree with that statement. i personally don't believe standardized testing is fair, but it is a necessary evil...I just think it needs more improvement for it to be totally fair (especially the MCAT).

also, i think exceptions should be made for people with a PharmD, DDS, OD, DPM, etc...It's not fair if they have to recall physics, organic chemistry, etc for the MCAT after having taken those courses many years ago. Most have taken the same courses in med school and have proven themselves as capable. So yes, for even wanting to attend medical school to sacrifice salary, is an honorable and a worthy enough reason...I think there should be flexibility for these particular people. They would make great doctors (with the background they have)!

 

[futureboy]

Yeah, he told me he had no problems with the PCAT back in the day (I think he mentioned 80 percentile). However, his MCAT scores have been in the high teens to low 20s.

Wow, that's just weird. He must have known the material very well at one time. You would think it would have come back to him after reviewing it. There might be something psychological going on. Maybe there is the academic equivalent of a sports psychologist that could help him if he has test anxiety or some other issue(s).

 

[Artful Dodger]

Interesting indeed

 

[MedicineNutt]

Wow, that's just weird. He must have known the material very well at one time. You would think it would have come back to him after reviewing it. There might be something psychological going on. Maybe there is the acacemic equivalent of a sports psychologist that could help him if he has test anxiety or some other issue(s).

He's handled the PCAT, NAPLEX, MJPE, and other such exams for his field...The MCAT is just another animal.

From what I remember, he was scoring 8's and 9's in the sciences...and 2-4 in verbal. Maybe it's test anxiety? No idea. Apparently he's been studying for the verbal section for a few years...When he told me all this I was totally shocked because he was always at the top of his class for everything. Really weird! I mean, the guy is trying hard...that's why I feel bad.

 

[FluffyRabbit]

Someone with a PhD Biology or PhD Chemistry or PharmD or DDS/DMD etc. would have to waste valuable time studying for a "semi"-worthless test that has little to do with medical school? Even when they've proven to be capable of handling graduate school (at the doctorate level)...and probably have completed half or near all courses taken in the first 2 yrs of medical school?

Firstly, the MCAT is not worthless. It does test knowledge and understanding of basic science that is relevant to the medical school curriculum.

Also, for someone who has supposedly been proven to be capable of handling graduate level material and mostly completed the courses in the first two years of medical school to do badly on an exam that mostly tests undergraduate-level knowledge is quite a red flag. It's not unreasonable to expect PharmDs to know thermodynamics, acid-base equilibria and introductory organic chemistry.

No.

Standardized Testing = Fairness.

lol or lack of fairness. i realize in this forum we only hear one side...there's forums and professional opinions who will disagree with that statement. i personally don't believe standardized testing is fair, but it is a necessary evil...I just think it needs more improvement for it to be totally fair (especially the MCAT).

The MCAT is indeed far from perfect, but I am glad it exists. It's not easy to compare GPAs across various institutions, and for someone who hasn't done that well in their classes, it can be an opportunity for them to prove that they are capable. Conversely, it will punish those who took mostly fluff classes with easy professors, did well but don't actually understand the material, or worse yet, just plain cheated their way during undergrad. As many have said, it is "the equalizer".

 

[Artful Dodger]

hmmm...

so verbal is the only thing really keeping him out of medical school? man, that sucks.

 

[futureboy]

From what I remember, he was scoring 8's and 9's in the sciences...and 2-4 in verbal.

A 2 on verbal? They give you a 1 if you leave it blank, don't they? Maybe a private tutor specifically for verbal could help (or a girlfriend with an English degree).

 

[MedicineNutt]

Firstly, the MCAT is not worthless. It does test knowledge and understanding of basic science that is relevant to the medical school curriculum.

Also, for someone who has supposedly been proven to be capable of handling graduate level material and mostly completed the courses in the first two years of medical school to do badly on an exam that mostly tests undergraduate-level knowledge is quite a red flag. It's not unreasonable to expect PharmDs to know thermodynamics, acid-base equilibria and introductory organic chemistry.





The MCAT is indeed far from perfect, but I am glad it exists. It's not easy to compare GPAs across various institutions, and for someone who hasn't done that well in their classes, it can be an opportunity for them to prove that they are capable. Conversely, it will punish those who took mostly fluff classes with easy professors, did well but don't actually understand the material, or worse yet, just plain cheated their way during undergrad. As many have said, it is "the equalizer".

I didn't say the MCAT was entirely worthless. I just don't think it's a reliable (if not questionable) indicator for those who already have graduate degrees.

And honestly, I know a few people (other than my friend) who have done well on their MCAT...and let me just say they're not the brightest people in the world...then, there's this crowd who had easy professors and managed to do well on the MCAT (thanks to mcat prep courses). So, in my opinion, the MCAT is not a reliable indicator for success in medical school...I mean, let's be honest...we're all scientists here...where is the control group?

 

[GoSpursGo]

The thing is, whether it's lack of mastery of the material or test anxiety, the MCAT isn't going to be the last time he sees standardized testing. He's going to have to face the USMLE Step licencing exams, which apparently make the MCAT look like a joke. Part of the reason med schools care so much about the MCAT is because it is the best predictor they have available to them of an applicant's ultimate ability to pass the boards. Med schools invest a LOT of money and other resources into turning out a doctor; understandably, they don't want to invest those resources unless they can have some level of confidence that the person will be able to get licenced, or they have just wasted a lot of time, money and other resources. Whether or not they would make a decent doctor besides is neither here nor there because it's irrelevant if they can't practice.

There are, of course, plenty of Caribbean and foreign schools that don't even require the MCAT at all; however, they have a notoriously high attrition rate and are probably most likely just going to leave him in debt.

 

[MedicineNutt]

The thing is, whether it's lack of mastery of the material or test anxiety, the MCAT isn't going to be the last time he sees standardized testing. He's going to have to face the USMLE Step licencing exams, which apparently make the MCAT look like a joke. Part of the reason med schools care so much about the MCAT is because it is the best predictor they have available to them of an applicant's ultimate ability to pass the boards. Med schools invest a LOT of money and other resources into turning out a doctor; understandably, they don't want to invest those resources unless they can have some level of confidence that the person will be able to get licenced, or they have just wasted a lot of time, money and other resources. Whether or not they would make a decent doctor besides is neither here nor there because it's irrelevant if they can't practice.

There are, of course, plenty of Caribbean and foreign schools that don't even require the MCAT at all; however, they have a notoriously high attrition rate and are probably most likely just going to leave him in debt.

Like I said before, this guy can pass board exams and other standardized exams. The MCAT is the only problem. I'm pretty sure he'll pass if the USMLE is field-related (and not random like the MCAT). Just assuming..

 

[futureboy]

Like I said before, this guy can pass board exams and other standardized exams. The MCAT is the only problem. I'm pretty sure he'll pass if the USMLE is field-related (and not random like the MCAT). Just assuming..

I don't know if the USMLE has reading comprehension type sections like the MCAT verbal. If so, he would be in trouble.

 

[o Farside o]

The argument that "oh so and so does well in a particular field so they should be exempt from the MCAT because clearly they would do well in medical school is so full of holes. If so then why would they feel the need to wave the MCAT if they were such BA students? PS has anyone here taken the PCAT? It is a hideous joke compared to the MCAT.

 

[MedicineNutt]

The argument that "oh so and so does well in a particular field so they should be exempt from the MCAT because clearly they would do well in medical school is so full of holes. If so then why would they feel the need to wave the MCAT if they were such BA students? PS has anyone here taken the PCAT? It is a hideous joke compared to the MCAT.

This rephrased would generate the "so full of holes" argument as well. I know why the test is mandatory, but...fact is, many graduate programs will accept someone based on having earned a graduate degree (exempt from ever taking an entrance exam). Why can't medical schools operate the same way?

lol every time anyone here criticizes the MCAT, a panic button is hit...I'm just saying though..After talking with this person, I'm almost convinced that the MCAT is not a reliable test...

 

[GoSpursGo]

Like I said before, this guy can pass board exams and other standardized exams. The MCAT is the only problem. I'm pretty sure he'll pass if the USMLE is field-related (and not random like the MCAT). Just assuming..

While not a perfect predictor, MCAT score has a direct correlation with USMLE step 1 score. So if you take a random person with a 30 vs. a random person with a 19, the vast majority of the time the random 30 will outperform the 19 2 years later on step 1. Since that's all that med schools have to go on, that's what they use.

I don't know if the USMLE has reading comprehension type sections like the MCAT verbal. If so, he would be in trouble.

Honestly, getting an 8 or a 9 in a science section isn't very good either.

I'm not trying to disparage your friend in any way or take away from his considerable achievements, I'm just saying, look at it from the med school's perspective. It may very well be true that it's just the MCAT that gives him fits and he'd be able to do great on any other standardized exam. However, why should a school risk it? There is an abundance of people qualified for medical school who will don't require such a leap of faith to believe that they'll be able to pass their board exams.

 

[MedicineNutt]

Ah well. I think I've reached the end of this thread. Ya'll can continue to debate this or whatever. Thanks to all who posted. I guess I don't have any good news to deliver but it's cool.

Oh, and last thing...US Med School admissions = BS'n ******s (no offense - just a personal opinion). lol Now put up the red flags.

Also...can someone link me the study/statistics that shows the direct correlation between MCAT and Step 1 scores?

 

[JJMrK]

The has to be some way to distinguish further between people with 3.6-4.0's. The MCAT is it. What improvements would you suggest? It's seemed to work pretty well so far.

 

[rockaction]

Yeah, he told me he had no problems with the PCAT back in the day (I think he mentioned 80 percentile). However, his MCAT scores have been in the high teens to low 20s. He's even taken 2 prep classes - Princeton Review and Kaplan. Nothing works for him! It's really, really awkward. He's been applying to med school since the first year of pharmacy school...I'd say that's very persistent...a very dedicated person. I mean, his grades aren't terrible (3.5ish) and his experiences are great (lots of volunteering). A very very capable person. He just passed his boards last month as well...and is now working as a registered pharmacist at a hospital in the local area.

Anyway, he's been rejected by every school this cycle (not even an interview)...Not sure if he mentioned applying to DO schools though. I'll bring that up next time I see him. A very unique story indeed.

That's a problem. Med schools don't like plucking people from other degree-granting programs.

 

[RogueUnicorn]

Ah well. I think I've reached the end of this thread. Ya'll can continue to debate this or whatever. Thanks to all who posted. I guess I don't have any good news to deliver but it's cool.

Oh, and last thing...US Med School admissions = BS'n ******s (no offense - just a personal opinion). lol Now put up the red flags.

Also...can someone link me the study/statistics that shows the direct correlation between MCAT and Step 1 scores?

google search it, there's a million of them. stop bellyaching and whining. christ it's annoying.

 

[demayette]

Ah well. I think I've reached the end of this thread. Ya'll can continue to debate this or whatever. Thanks to all who posted. I guess I don't have any good news to deliver but it's cool.

Oh, and last thing...US Med School admissions = BS'n ******s (no offense - just a personal opinion). lol Now put up the red flags.

Also...can someone link me the study/statistics that shows the direct correlation between MCAT and Step 1 scores?

Complaining about the MCAT is not gonna solve your friend shortcomings. GPA is not a reliable indicator on how "good or smart" college students are. Some countries who admit students to med schools from high school dont even care about GPA, LORs, ECs, Researches etc... Everyone take a standardized test like the MCAT...the people who got the highest score got in. In my opinion, this is more fair. Tell your friend to use the Berkley Review books and ExamKrackers verbal 101 as study guide to prepare for the MCAT.
The MCAT is a more difficult test than step I... I know someone that I used to work with who took the mcat and could not hit the high twenties after two attempts; he went to med school in the island (ROSS UNIVERSITY) and pass the USMLE step 1 first attempt 240+. I dont remember the exact score. Now he is doing a fellowship in cardiology which is extremely competitive even for AMGs.

 

[chessknt]

No.

This would put people who dont have graduate degrees (and have no interest in pursuing them) at a disadvantage.

 

[MedicineNutt]

lol im glad that my colleagues won't be physicians in the future. you people are the worst of the bunch. loosen up a little. those that are nit-picking my opinions should know that there has to be justification to the claims you make. in fact, i challenge you to find fault in the admissions process, since all i see is a bias for the MCAT...Once upon a time I was a pre-med with thoughts like you. Then I found reality and let go of idealism. I'm happy where I am now though. I wouldn't change it. I'm not saying I'm better than you, but I feel comfortable in my own shoes.

 

[FluffyRabbit]

lol every time anyone here criticizes the MCAT, a panic button is hit...I'm just saying though..After talking with this person, I'm almost convinced that the MCAT is not a reliable test...

N=1? We're all scientists here.

Ah well. I think I've reached the end of this thread. Ya'll can continue to debate this or whatever. Thanks to all who posted. I guess I don't have any good news to deliver but it's cool.

Oh, and last thing...US Med School admissions = BS'n ******s (no offense - just a personal opinion). lol Now put up the red flags.

Also...can someone link me the study/statistics that shows the direct correlation between MCAT and Step 1 scores?

Thanks for being so insulting.

lol im glad that my colleagues won't be physicians in the future. you people are the worst of the bunch.

See above. Also, weren't you going to go away?

 

[wanderer]

He's handled the PCAT, NAPLEX, MJPE, and other such exams for his field...The MCAT is just another animal.

From what I remember, he was scoring 8's and 9's in the sciences...and 2-4 in verbal. Maybe it's test anxiety? No idea. Apparently he's been studying for the verbal section for a few years...When he told me all this I was totally shocked because he was always at the top of his class for everything. Really weird! I mean, the guy is trying hard...that's why I feel bad.

If your friend (if he really exists) is scoring 8s and 9s in practices he obviously does not have a clear grasp of the required material. And a 2 in verbal? He's dangerously unqualified if that is that is the case. Anyone who speaks English fluently should be able to get at least a 5 or 6 without any practice at all, if not more.

Yeah, he told me he had no problems with the PCAT back in the day (I think he mentioned 80 percentile).

You realize it's a different test taking pool right?

lol im glad that my colleagues won't be physicians in the future. you people are the worst of the bunch. loosen up a little. those that are nit-picking my opinions should know that there has to be justification to the claims you make. in fact, i challenge you to find fault in the admissions process, since all i see is a bias for the MCAT...Once upon a time I was a pre-med with thoughts like you. Then I found reality and let go of idealism. I'm happy where I am now though. I wouldn't change it. I'm not saying I'm better than you, but I feel comfortable in my own shoes.

 

[brooklynblunder]

i wouldnt say he's dangerously unqualified because of a score of 2 on the verbal

the fact is, every field has hoops that you have to climb through. Its just a part of life

 

[ButImLETired]

I can't believe no one has mentioned the second main purpose of the MCAT, and that's to make sure everyone is sort of on the same page.

If your "friend" has been in pharmacy school for the past few years, he may have a great grasp on orgo, but maybe he doesn't remember some of the basic physics concepts, or human physiology. There's really no such thing as an "intro" to a subject in med school, you're basically thrown right into the detailed stuff at an incredibly fast pace and you're expected to have the basic stuff down cold so you can build upon it. If you did very poorly on the MCAT, or haven't taken it in a zillion years, med schools just don't know that you have that stable foundation under you so they can build all the new detailed stuff on top of it. It's not just about judging whether you can do the work. It's about seeing if you know enough that they don't have to hold your hand and explain the basics.

And honestly, say what you want about how the MCAT isn't a perfect test, and I'd probably agree that the difference between an 11 and a 14 is often a matter of luck. But a 2?! I'm sorry, that's not the sign of an inaccurate test. When you're at such a low percentile, it means that everyone else around you managed to deal with the unfairness of the test, or maybe (we're all scientists here, right?) what's more likely is that your friend is the problem. English is my third language and I got a 13. Verbal is reading comprehension, no more, no less. It's about understanding what a passage is talking about while ignoring the irrelevant stuff. You really think that's a skill that won't come up at all in med school or medical practice? I'm sorry, but if you read at all you should be able to get in the middle-high single digits.

 

[J ROD]

I can tell you the PharmD did nothing for me.....MCAT taken; MCAT approved!!

 

[apumic]

Wow, that's just weird. He must have known the material very well at one time. You would think it would have come back to him after reviewing it. There might be something psychological going on. Maybe there is the academic equivalent of a sports psychologist that could help him if he has test anxiety or some other issue(s).

The PCAT, as I understand, is much more about memorization than the MCAT, which is more of a critical thinking w/ specialized knowledge test. As a result, someone with poor critical thinking but a good memory could actually do quite well on the PCAT but awful on the MCAT.

He's handled the PCAT, NAPLEX, MJPE, and other such exams for his field...The MCAT is just another animal.

From what I remember, he was scoring 8's and 9's in the sciences...and 2-4 in verbal. Maybe it's test anxiety? No idea. Apparently he's been studying for the verbal section for a few years...When he told me all this I was totally shocked because he was always at the top of his class for everything. Really weird! I mean, the guy is trying hard...that's why I feel bad.

This confirms the previous statement. The 2-4 VR score says that while he is average in the sciences, his critical thinking and/or verbal skills are weak.

Like I said before, this guy can pass board exams and other standardized exams. The MCAT is the only problem. I'm pretty sure he'll pass if the USMLE is field-related (and not random like the MCAT). Just assuming..

Sorry, but this is perfect conjecture. There is no supporting data from which to make such a statement (i.e., that despite utterly failing the MCAT he could be successful at the USMLE steps). There is, however, plenty of data linking performance on the MCAT with performance on the USMLE Step 1. While the correlation is very far from perfect, it is far stronger than your or my conjecture as how your friend might perform on a test he has never taken.

I don't know if the USMLE has reading comprehension type sections like the MCAT verbal. If so, he would be in trouble.

Even without a VR section, his MCAT is significantly (almost a full standard deviation) below the average for a matriculant (31.5) w/ an average of 8.5 per science section (25.5 total if the VR matched the sciences).




Sorry you dislike the MCAT. It's a part of life for people wanting to go into medicine. It's just how it works. If you feel people are nitpicking, it's largely because you are continuing to question a test we all have to take and figure out a way around it. People tend to dislike those who can't play by the rules. It's a part of human nature -- we tend to dislike those who try to cheat because it hurts the rest of us. Simply put, while we may be empathetic to your friend's situation, there is simply nothing that can be done and most would agree nothing that should be done. Your friend has to jump through the same hoops as the rest of us. It's tough and can be heart-breaking, but it's life.

 

[RogueUnicorn]

sounds like someone is bitter over something... complex much?

 

[bannie22]

mbbs does not require mcat. in fact, the only area that requires mcat is north america

 

[MedicineNutt]

lol to someone who implied that i should go away. i posted last night. i wanted to check new responses to this thread today. that's freedom on my end. go away if you don't like it.

anyway...it's whatever. you all have your opinions and i have mines - we hold tightly to them. i just hate seeing people hurt over something so meaningless. i wish i could drop the bomb and say i can't wait until UHC will kick in, but that would be asking for too much.

just one comment i'd like to add. for those who scored low on the MCAT, do you feel that the test is fair? do you think schools should waive it for special circumstances? it seems as if the people who posted in this thread scored fairly high on the test...i mean, to me, that doesn't count because you're already holding some bias. lol spew me some hatred...im just in here for fun now.

 

[b-real]

lol to someone who implied that i should go away. i posted last night. i wanted to check new responses to this thread today. that's freedom on my end. go away if you don't like it.

anyway...it's whatever. you all have your opinions and i have mines - we hold tightly to them. i just hate seeing people hurt over something so meaningless. i wish i could drop the bomb and say i can't wait until UHC will kick in, but that would be asking for too much.

just one comment i'd like to add. for those who scored low on the MCAT, do you feel that the test is fair? do you think schools should waive it for special circumstances? it seems as if the people who posted in this thread scored fairly high on the test...i mean, to me, that doesn't count because you're already holding some bias. lol spew me some hatred...im just in here for fun now.

Umm, I'm pretty sure those who scored low on the MCAT would hold a bias as well. Just because people really want to be doctors, doesn't mean they should. And like it or not, the admissions committee makes that decision. Go Caribbean or go home.

 

[MedicineNutt]

Umm, I'm pretty sure those who scored low on the MCAT would hold a bias as well. Just because people really want to be doctors, doesn't mean they should. And like it or not, the admissions committee makes that decision. Go Caribbean or go home.

I'm aware of biases. However, I'm kinda counting on someone to say the exact opposite of what I'm expecting to hear.

So is it a fair exam for those with low MCAT scores? How should it be re-written?

You'll be surprised. Those who scored high on it are probably the same people who wrote the test...

*looks up the correlation study* I hope that shuts me up. Those who said to google it probably rely on the fact that it exists...who knows, maybe it doesn't...I won't believe it until I see it...Well, I guess I'll believe it when I find a study that compares no MCAT vs MCAT and Step 1 performance.

 

[tkim]

lol im glad that my colleagues won't be physicians in the future. you people are the worst of the bunch. loosen up a little. those that are nit-picking my opinions should know that there has to be justification to the claims you make. in fact, i challenge you to find fault in the admissions process, since all i see is a bias for the MCAT...Once upon a time I was a pre-med with thoughts like you. Then I found reality and let go of idealism. I'm happy where I am now though. I wouldn't change it. I'm not saying I'm better than you, but I feel comfortable in my own shoes.

Would it be safe to say that your finding 'reality' and letting go of 'idealism' had something to do with your 16 score?

http://forums.studentdoctor.net/showthread.php?p=8651721#post8651721

Drexel MSP sounds nice. Have they had any success with that? What is the IMS program?

Just so you know, I've taken the Kaplan MCAT course before. Did all my work, asked questions, worked hard, and prepared to the best of my ability, but I couldn't cut it...I mean, I do just fine in the classroom; however, I'm a choke artist when it comes to standardized tests - no one has gotten through me (and I've tried like hell).

My MCAT score was a 16 M

In practice, I wasn't getting more than a 21 or 22...

In other countries, it's called 'sour grapes'. What's it called in yours?

 

[b-real]

I'm aware of biases. However, I'm kinda counting on someone to say the exact opposite of what I'm expecting to hear.

So is it a fair exam for those with low MCAT scores? How should it be re-written?

You'll be surprised. Those who scored high on it are probably the same people who wrote the test...

*looks up the correlation study* I hope that shuts me up.

Yes, it's fair because everyone is tested on the same material. Tell us why you believe it's unfair for lesser scoring applicants. Oh, and here is your study:

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/16186610

Although medical school difficulty or distinction varied w/ MCAT scores,

MCAT scores were strong predictors of scores for all three Step examinations, particularly Step 1.

CONCLUSIONS: MCAT scores almost double the proportion of variance in medical school grades explained by uGPAs, and essentially replace the need for uGPAs in their impressive prediction of Step scores. The MCAT performs well as an indicator of academic preparation for medical school, independent of the school-specific handicaps of uGPAs.

 

[MedicineNutt]

Would it be safe to say that your finding 'reality' and letting go of 'idealism' had something to do with your 16 score?

http://forums.studentdoctor.net/showthread.php?p=8651721#post8651721





In other countries, it's called 'sour grapes'. What's it called in yours?

Yeah so what. Thanks for pointing that out!! That was a while ago. We all move on. I'm just concerned for a friend because he wants it more than I do. My own fault was not studying for the exam. Well, I didn't study the right things. I would've done OK if I studied better (or not - who knows). On the other hand, I have a friend who has studied his ass off for this exam...

I guess now you have something to smile about by pointing out the obvious. Thanks for making me feel like dirt. This isn't about me. This is about you now. Hopefully that was direct enough...maybe it takes a while to register in the mind...

 

[MedicineNutt]

Yes, it's fair because everyone is tested on the same material. Tell us why you believe it's unfair for lesser scoring applicants. Oh, and here is your study:

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/16186610

Although medical school difficulty or distinction varied w/ MCAT scores,

Appreciate it. I think I have a subscription for pubmed. Let's see if the full study is in there...

 

[millepora]

The MCAT was one of the best things in my academic career, that allowed me to polish my critical thinking skills. Along with critical thinking skills, it ensures that you can perform using both sides of your brain. Most of the subjects may not have relevant content, but the way they make you think sure has some relevance.

 

[GoSpursGo]

lol to someone who implied that i should go away. i posted last night. i wanted to check new responses to this thread today. that's freedom on my end. go away if you don't like it.

anyway...it's whatever. you all have your opinions and i have mines - we hold tightly to them. i just hate seeing people hurt over something so meaningless. i wish i could drop the bomb and say i can't wait until UHC will kick in, but that would be asking for too much.

just one comment i'd like to add. for those who scored low on the MCAT, do you feel that the test is fair? do you think schools should waive it for special circumstances? it seems as if the people who posted in this thread scored fairly high on the test...i mean, to me, that doesn't count because you're already holding some bias. lol spew me some hatred...im just in here for fun now.

Would it get your friend into med school if we told you it was an unfair test? No. Med schools do their best to analyze candidates for med school, and even if there are some flaws in the process, the MCAT is one of the best indicators they have.

*looks up the correlation study* I hope that shuts me up. Those who said to google it probably rely on the fact that it exists...who knows, maybe it doesn't...I won't believe it until I see it...Well, I guess I'll believe it when I find a study that compares no MCAT vs MCAT and Step 1 performance.

Where did I find these links? Wikipedia. PS, these are both also on the ncbi website, you just have to go off-site to get the full-text and abstracts; it's not some random sketchy website.

Undergraduate Institutional MCAT Scores as Predictors of USMLE Step 1 Performance

Consistent with findings from previous studies, this study demonstrated that undergraduate science GPAs and MCAT scores are strong predictors of standardized test performances during medical school.

Relationship of Reading, MCAT, and USMLE Step 1 Test Results for Students

MCAT scores have been shown to be correlated with USMLE scores.

I don't know what you're talking about "no MCAT vs. MCAT and Step 1 performance." You said your friend has taken the MCAT MULTIPLE times and gotten high teens to low 20s; therefore, he can't say he has NO MCAT.

 

[MedicineNutt]

Cool. Thanks.

 

[MedicineNutt]

Honestly. About the verbal section. I thought many of the answer choices looked too similar. In reality, you aren't given multiple choice. In my opinion, the verbal section should be an open-ended response section. Hell, you could even get rid of the writing section and add more time to the verbal section.

In my opinion, that's a better test of your critical thinking...You're not relying on the answer choices someone else is giving you. As a physician, every decision you will make will not come from multiple choice...the Step 1 shouldn't entirely be a multiple choice exam as well. Pretend if time wasn't an issue...how many would agree?

Maybe an oral verbal exam to test critical thinking? a majority amount of communication is from bodily movement...

Any studies that show the difference between multiple choice vs open-ended responses?

 

[millepora]

On a positive note, you still have a chance with DO. My friend got in last year with a 17. I was really amazed, but I have also heard a lot of other friends getting admitted into DO schools with scores ranging from 19-22. I guess they set their bar pretty low.

Also, another friend got into their state MD school with a 20.

 

[JJMrK]

Honestly. About the verbal section. I thought many of the answer choices looked too similar. In reality, you aren't given multiple choice. In my opinion, the verbal section should be an open-ended response section. Hell, you could even get rid of the writing section and add more time to the verbal section.

In my opinion, that's a better test of your critical thinking...You're not relying on the answer choices someone else is giving you. As a physician, every decision you will make will not come from multiple choice...the Step 1 shouldn't entirely be a multiple choice exam as well. Pretend if time wasn't an issue...how many would agree?

Maybe an oral verbal exam to test critical thinking? a majority amount of communication is from bodily movement...

Any studies that show the difference between multiple choice vs open-ended responses?

It already takes long enough to get MCAT scores back to test-takers.

The verbal section tests reading comprehension and critical thinking skills by forcing you to use logic and deduction to figure out which choice applies. That's part of the challenge, and probably the main reason that the verbal section is so difficult.