Med student interested in anesthesiology. Still worth pursuing?

[TeslaCoil]

I can't speak for Europe or other parts of the world, but I know in Australia anesthesiologists (anaesthetists) do really well. Range is from about $300-$400k for 40-45 hours per week if you work in a public hospital, but you get paid more if you work more (and I'm not even counting benefits etc which you'd also get). However if you work in private, then you will make a lot more (the general rule of thumb is 1 day's work in private is equivalent to 3 days of work in public). I've seen a mid-career cardiac anaesthetist or anesthesiologist who makes nearly $1 million per year. Maybe these numbers are low compared to the US, but I don't think they're significantly lower, are they? And in general the pace of work probably isn't as intense in Australia as it is in the US. No supervision of CRNAs, sit your own cases. At least from what I've seen, generally speaking, surgeons and anesthesiologists completely respect one another as colleagues too.

Oh, this I know. Australia is great! But after the US and Australia, I for the life of me cannot think of another fountry in the world where doctors make that much money. And Im not complaining but I like to keep things in perspective.


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[GravelRider]

Yep. Im talking about the less developed countries. In countries like germany, italy, england they earn more of course, but still maybe half of what doctors earn here. In other countries, for instance, in the balkans, they earn shamefully little... and probably complain half as much as we do.


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So doctors there are living in incredible poverty? Like to the point where they can barely put food on the table and are living in shelters?

Where are you getting your information from?

 

[bashwell]

Oh, this I know. Australia is great! But after the US and Australia, I for the life of me cannot think of another fountry in the world where doctors make that much money. And Im not complaining but I like to keep things in perspective.


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Australia is really close to Asia and I hear some Asian nations pay their doctors high salaries. Apparently Singapore is one of these places. I have no idea if that's true, just what I hear.

Physicians in NZ do really well and have a great lifestyle (probably better than Australia), but their salaries aren't as high.

 

[TeslaCoil]

Yes. Basically. The family unit must be tight knit in these areas and everyone has to contribute to survive. I know because I've been there and seen it with my own eyes. What? You think doctors make a good wage everywhere in the world? Not so. If I had to put my money where my mouth is, I would even go so far as to say that MOST doctors in the world are relatively poor.


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[TeslaCoil]

Australia is really close to Asia and I hear some Asian nations pay their doctors high salaries. Apparently Singapore is one of these places. I have no idea if that's true, just what I hear.

Physicians in NZ do really well and have a great lifestyle (probably better than Australia), but their salaries aren't as high.

Fair enough. But the point Im trying to make is that outside of the handful of developed countries, most areas of the world are unable to compensate doctors nearly as well.


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[738177]

Thanks, good question. There are midlevels (e.g., NPs), but they're not like midlevels in the States (at least not yet). There are no PAs or at least none that I've ever seen or met. There are "anaesthetic nurses" who help anaesthetists or anesthesiologists in theatre (OR), but they are definitely nothing like CRNAs, and none are "independent" like CRNAs in some US states. I think Australia is much more like Canada where midlevels aren't as big a factor.

Sure, conceivably things could change in the future where midlevels gain more ground in Australia, but Australia is such a different society and culture (e.g., in my opinion patients seem far more grateful and still really respect physicians and would not likely tolerate midlevels acting as anything more than a midlevel), and a different medical education and healthcare system, that it's really hard for me to envision how things could ever become like how they are in the US. Again, doesn't mean it can't happen someday, but I just don't see it happening any time soon. And I believe most Australian anaesthetists or anesthesiologists are very much aware of the CRNA issue in the States and make it a point not to have things ever become like that. Just my opinion.

Thank you. It's interesting comparing different countries. Yeah i don't think the whole "I'm a midlevel, give me more salary and independence" thing exists in Canadian culture either..at least not to the same extent. Probably because we don't have as many of them. Enrollment into any health profession or opening new schools is heavily regulated. But of course, we also have our share of cons.

 

[deleted171991]

Oh, this I know. Australia is great! But after the US and Australia, I for the life of me cannot think of another fountry in the world where doctors make that much money. And Im not complaining but I like to keep things in perspective.

If you want to keep things in perspective, also consider the hourly pay, the malpractice risks and the cost of a medical education (including residency and fellowship - hugely underpaid in the US).

 

[TeslaCoil]

If you want to keep things in perspective, also consider the hourly pay, the malpractice risks and the cost of a medical education (including residency and fellowship - hugely underpaid in the US).

Ha, trust me, I have considered all of the above. And to me it was still worth it. I live decently well as a resident even. What alternatives would you suggest are so much better?


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[deleted171991]

Ha, trust me, I have considered all of the above. And to me it was still worth it. I live decently well as a resident even. What alternatives would you suggest are so much better?

I am only saying that people who complain that American docs are overpaid tend to forget about all the stuff that's specific to this country.

I don't think that we are overpaid. I think there is a lot of waste in the medical system, starting with all the bureaucracy and bureaucrats (who, as we all know, tend only to multiply).

 

[bashwell]

If you want to keep things in perspective, also consider the hourly pay, the malpractice risks and the cost of a medical education (including residency and fellowship - hugely underpaid in the US).

An intern (PGY1) in New South Wales, Australia (where Sydney is located) makes a base salary of about $65k per year. (I believe other states are a lot higher, e.g., Queensland makes a base of $75k per year as an intern). This doesn't include overtime pay (>40 hours), which most physicians work. NSW salary as a PGY2 jumps up to $75k per year + overtime. A first year registrar (equal to first year US resident) is about $95k + overtime. It just goes higher afterwards.

Today medical education as an Australian citizen (CSP) is about $10k per year for 4 years = $40k. A little bit more with books and other things, but still under $50k total. I've heard in the past (maybe 20 years ago?) it used to be virtually free.

To be fair, a major downside is training takes a lot longer than the US, but you enjoy the ride more.

 

[deleted171991]

To be fair, a major downside is training takes a lot longer than the US, but you enjoy the ride more.

Glad to hear that.