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Medical Marijuana

Discussion in 'Pre-Medical - MD' started by badasshairday, May 10, 2007.

Medical Marijuana, for it or against it?

Poll closed May 24, 2007.
  1. For it

    176 vote(s)
    74.3%
  2. Against it

    61 vote(s)
    25.7%
  1. badasshairday

    badasshairday Vascular and Interventional Radiology 10+ Year Member

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    For it or against it?

    Discuss.
     
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  3. mr burrito

    mr burrito SOCMOB 2+ Year Member

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    as the patient or the doc?
     
  4. SunshineNYC

    SunshineNYC SunshineNYC 2+ Year Member

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    I think the FDA should decide and we should let them decide. Since when can politicians and lawmakers decide which drugs are considered for medical use or not? Similarly, pharmaceutical companies should be able to find a way to administer the beneficial chemicals in marijuana without the harmful effects of smoking it... I mean we don't make tea from poppy plants in the hospital when someone has broken their leg, we administer FDA approved opiates made from the poppy plant. The whole legal debate is really ridiculous and I'm leaving my personal opinion of marijuana out of this and just trying to look at it from a legal/professional standpoint, by saying that marijuana should be treated like other drugs... it should be considered for use by the FDA and it should be studied like other drugs, and then a decision should be made... but not by some politician.
     
  5. alwaysaangel

    alwaysaangel 5+ Year Member

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    MDApps:
    It has been considered by the FDA. Thats how drugs are scheduled and made legal, not legal, legal by prescription etc.

    http://www.fda.gov/cder/present/DIA2004/Leiderman.ppt

    The FDA does studies determines the medical uses compared to probability of recreational or misuse, then they make a recommendation to the DEA of how to schedule the drug.

    The problem is that the FDA hasn't tried to reschedule marijuana in a long time and hasn't been able to determine if its worth legalizing by prescription considering the high probability of misuse.

    I mean in Cali where they do have prescription marijuana I have never met a person with a canibis club card that actually needs one. Its all idiot college kids who paid a crooked doctor $200 for a card. Then they get tons of REALLY GOOD marijuana products.

    Overall, until they find a better way to control it it needs to stay illegal. And when there is enough evidence that marijuana provides assistance in ways that other drugs cannot I'm sure the FDA will reconsider the scheduling of the drug. Until then, here we are.
     
  6. Institute

    Institute 2+ Year Member

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    Interesting point, but how about the legalization of what is essentially 'speed', aka drugs for ADHD and ADD. Furthermore, what about such narcotics (which was big news in the WSJ this morning) as oxycodone. Oxycodone is a heavily used narcotic that leads to heroin addiction, yet is still circulating through the states.

    There seems to be a dichotomy here between legalizing medical marijuana (which has more beneficial benefits than giving kids speed and drug users oxycodone for 'pain') and having current drugs that do more harm to their users.
     
  7. 45408

    45408 aw buddy 7+ Year Member

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    You're still baked from this morning, aren't you?
     
  8. alwaysaangel

    alwaysaangel 5+ Year Member

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    Oh I agree with you. Its definitely not a perfect system. There are a lot of problems, and I'm not public policist so I don't know how to fix them.

    I was mostly just explaining the previous poster that the FDA is heavily involved in the legalization/illegalization of drugs and its not something the government arbitrarily assigns. They do the best they can with the info they have.
     
  9. badasshairday

    badasshairday Vascular and Interventional Radiology 10+ Year Member

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    It is true that in Cali, where medical marijuana is legal, you see a ton of college kids getting cannabis club cards from crooked docs for $200. My cousin told the doctor he has knee pain and insomnia and that marijuana is the only thing that helped. He got his Rx.

    I believe it has some medicinal value, but obviously you have people that will abuse the system. But how is this different then abusing Vicodin? We should just make it fully legal for medicine and have it distributed from actual pharmacy's rather than local cannabis clubs.
     
  10. bretticus

    bretticus Neuroradiology fellow 10+ Year Member

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    I simply find it amusing that alcohol and tobacco are granted specific exemptions from drug scheduling, while marijuana is a schedule III i.e., more dangerous than heroin and cocaine. Seriously, who are we kidding? Alcohol and tobacco have essentially no medicinal value, while being highly addicive, yet anyone can buy them, no prescription needed!

    Drug laws in this country are ridiculous, but nobody can get elected trying to change them. Cause drugs are bad, mmmkay?
     
  11. notdeadyet

    notdeadyet Still in California Moderator 10+ Year Member

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    Volunteer at a cancer treatment clinic for a while and you'll meet lots of folks with cannabis club cards who actually need them. The reason your personally only meet college kids with the cards is probably that you're a college kid yourself.

    If they do decide to get rid of medicinal marijuana as it exists here in California, I hope they do away with valium and viagra as well. I mean, hey, most of the folks I know on these drugs are perfectly healthy middle age folks...
     
  12. kdburton

    kdburton Ulnar Deviant 5+ Year Member

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    I'm against it for medical reasons, but I am for the legalization/ decriminlization of it for economic (and other) reasons. Marijuana for medical use is a ****ing joke, but I can't deny all of its benefits in the form of potential tax revenue and a big weight off the shoulders of our corrections system. It would also take away incentives for any itnernational smugglers
     
  13. alwaysaangel

    alwaysaangel 5+ Year Member

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    MDApps:
    The difference is vaigra and valium you get x pills per day for x amount of time. Then you have to see a doctor again to get a refill.

    The people I know with canibis cards can go to as many clubs as they want as often as they want and get as much marijuana as they wish. Why is it that marijuana is the only prescription drug that is exempt from actually having a specific amount? Fix that and they would fix a good amount of the problems with prescription marijuana.

    I'm well aware lots of people do need it. My point was that there are an awful lot abusing it right now.
     
  14. alwaysaangel

    alwaysaangel 5+ Year Member

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    I'm relatively certain that most marijuana is domestic. International drug smuggling is usually more valuable drugs such as cocaine.
     
  15. kdburton

    kdburton Ulnar Deviant 5+ Year Member

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    I'm relatively certain that a very large amount of it comes from Canada and Mexico. Of course there is some that is domestic, but with decriminilized marijuana in B.C. and below the US I bet the majority of it comes from across the border
     
  16. Depakote

    Depakote Pediatric Anesthesiologist Rocket Scientist Physician Moderator Emeritus Lifetime Donor Classifieds Approved 10+ Year Member

    Let's look at the situation we're talking about use here... These are very sick people, typically cancer patients undergoing very cytotoxic chemotherapeutic regimens. I've personally had one such patient tell me that the only thing that helped her nausea was marijuana.

    Why should we deny these patients a viable therapy?

    (I'll also take this time to point out that Cocaine is still used as a topical anesthetic in eye surgery)
     
  17. alwaysaangel

    alwaysaangel 5+ Year Member

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    Hmm...admittedly I don't know. I was mostly talking from personal experience. I've seen a lot of dealers (through work and clinic - I've never touched the stuff) and never has one ever said its from Mexico or BC. Its usually somewhere regional, but these are young kids and small time dealers who are buying relatviely small amounts from small connections, so I suppose its not truly representative.

    If anyone does have any numbers they'd be interesting to see.
     
  18. kdburton

    kdburton Ulnar Deviant 5+ Year Member

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    Not trying to knock your personal experiences, but I can almost gurantee that 100% of the dealers you know don't get their weed from the person pulling it out of the ground. There is a fairly long hierarchy of hands before it actually reaches someones' lips, and in the US its hard for anyone to have a large-scale operation like the ones in Vancouver or Mexico without getting caught. Its in everyones best interests (economically speaking) to buy the stuff from places where marijuana laws don't apply, because even with the premium for smuggling it across the border, it is still much cheaper than domestic stuff when it comes from outside of our borders.

    As for everyone who says "my patients tell me that its the only thing that helps with <insert such and such sympton here>".... I see patients who've had auto-islet cell transplants (and other very invasive sugeries) every day because of chronic pancreatitis that have become addicted to narcotics. When they no longer even have a pancreas they complain about the pain, etc, etc, etc because they are what is called "drug seakers." They are not the expert on drugs, the doctor is. Give them some compazine for the nausea or pain meds for the pain. Smoking medical marijuana is one of many and i'd say its probably never the best option.
     
  19. blargh

    blargh Banned Banned

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    alcohol and cigarettes are probably not heavily regulated because money must be involved. tobacco and liquor companies have $$$ and i'm willing to bet that some of it goes to the government.

    did you know the clif bar company is owned by the tobacco industry??
     
  20. badasshairday

    badasshairday Vascular and Interventional Radiology 10+ Year Member

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    Yeah it really is ridiculous that MJ is a schedule III drug. The main reason to this is not because its some crazy drug but because the cotton industry pushed for it to become illegal due to the potential competition from hemp.

    Also, most of the MJ in California is grown here rather than imported. Growers take advantage of the long growing season. They have had drug busts here in which thousands of plants were confiscated and burned. By decrimilzing it perhaps the taxes should go to pay for our public education in California which costs a arm and a ****ing leg. They should also build another med school in our state with that money.
     
  21. evoviiigsr

    evoviiigsr 7+ Year Member

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    LOL. What do you think the FDA is? Beauracratic agency. AKA controlled by politicians and lawmakers
     
  22. Institute

    Institute 2+ Year Member

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    And even for epistaxis procedures 8).
     
  23. badasshairday

    badasshairday Vascular and Interventional Radiology 10+ Year Member

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    Physicians should decide, not the FDA. For medical uses it should be distributed only from pharmacies instead of from cannibis clubs.

    It really should just be legalized. All the tax revenue should go to education.
     
  24. alwaysaangel

    alwaysaangel 5+ Year Member

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    MDApps:
    This explains my experiences.
     
  25. Medikit

    Medikit Plastic Bag Middle Class Physician 10+ Year Member

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    I'm against medical marijuana but for decriminalization of marijuana.
     
  26. paranoid_eyes

    paranoid_eyes 2+ Year Member

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    im all for decriminalizing marijuana. jeez, stupid americans don't realize that it isn't THAT bad for you (don't lecture me, i know its bad, but it's made out to be WAAAY worse than it really is)
     
  27. badasshairday

    badasshairday Vascular and Interventional Radiology 10+ Year Member

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    Where are you from?
     
  28. Crazy4F1

    Crazy4F1 10+ Year Member

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    i'm against decriminalizing it, but for using it in specific situations - aids patients and cancer patients using it for pain management when there's a documented situation where nothing else works, for example.

    ...what ever happened to Marinol? i heard about it briefly but i dont really know much about it. it hasnt come up in this thread yet, so i'm curious as to what everyone else knows/has heard about it.
     
  29. UMP

    UMP Recovered Under-Achiever 7+ Year Member

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    all drugs should be legal... do what ever you want to your body. It'll be better pumping money in to rehab programs then the DEA or housing prisoners for these crimes...
     
  30. evoviiigsr

    evoviiigsr 7+ Year Member

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    Marinol=****. Isolated THC doesn't work, it needs to be combined with all the other cannabinoid molecules found in marijuana for an effect
     
  31. novawildcat

    novawildcat Senior Member 5+ Year Member

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    I've been working for a pharmaceutical company for the past 3 years doing medicinal chemistry focused on cannabinoid research. Cannabinoids have become a big field of research for potential drugs since they have been shown to treat a whole host of problems. Cannabinoids have shown efficacy for things like many types of pain, stopping tumor growth, rheumatoid arthritis, anxiety, certain blood diseases, and many other things.


    Isolated THC, such as marinol, might not work because a lot of times it all depends on how a drug is delivered. Things that aren't active orally may still be very active intravenously. THC may be active from smoking marijuana because it is delivered through the smoke, not as a solid/gel like in marinol.


    Marijuana has many other cannabinoid compounds in it some of which bind to the CB2 receptor. Cannabinoids that bind to the CB2 receptor definitely are active at treating pain.
    Marijuana should definitely be legalized.
     
  32. gsmithers68

    gsmithers68 2+ Year Member

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    Then what does a vaporizer do? I thought it purified the THC from the other compounds? Am I mistaken?

    I am from Oregon... you guys can figure it out. If alcohol and cigarettes are legal then why the **** can't I smoke a joint.

    I agree with UMP too. Lets legalize all drugs... tax the **** out of them and make some money. Then we can get more revenue flowing through rehab clinics, etc. opening up more jobs and lowering crime. Word. :thumbup:
     
  33. novawildcat

    novawildcat Senior Member 5+ Year Member

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    There are certain cases where certain drugs may not work by themselves, but when combined with another drug the desired effect is seen (multimodal response). This could be the case for marijuana and why THC by itself may not do anything.
     
  34. DoctorMom78

    DoctorMom78 Sky Glory 2+ Year Member

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    Did they try ginger? That is supposed to work well for nausea too.

    If there is a legitmate medical benefit and there is an alternative way to get that benefit beside smoking it, then I am for legalization of medical marijuana. On the other hand, I personally think that they should legalize it anyway.

    There has been some very interesting information posted here. If it really is useful for pain, then I think that there is a tremendous potential benefit there as the vast majority of the esixting medications for pain are highly addictive narcotics.

    Interesting debate and one I hadn't really thought much about previously. It actually dragged me out of the osteopathic threads to post here. :laugh: :thumbup:
     
  35. tncekm

    tncekm MS-1 2+ Year Member

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    If it has a purpose in medicine that leads to the improvement of patients' lives it should be legalized, period.
     
  36. kdburton

    kdburton Ulnar Deviant 5+ Year Member

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    I'm sure we could say that alcohol will relieve pain and help you forget about whatever condition you have. Should we prescibe a 12-pack of beer to patients who say that its the only thing that helps them?
     
  37. evoviiigsr

    evoviiigsr 7+ Year Member

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    A vaporizer reduces the number of compounds that are inhaled, it doesn't just vaporize THC. But, a smaller number of CBN's are inhaled and that is why the high is described as more in the head. That proves how all the compounds are needed for full effects to be felt
     
  38. digitalraid

    digitalraid 5+ Year Member

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    The concept of medical marijuana is stupid but I fully support legalization of it:D. There may be components in weed that may have medical use but the plant in its basic form surely isn't medicine. I'll support medical MJ if it helps bring about legalization though.
     
  39. Cirrus83

    Cirrus83 Too old for this 10+ Year Member

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    I'm pretty sure with a real vaporizer (like the volcano, etc) the high is described as simply being a bazillion times stronger, lol.

    As far as purifying goes I think it just doesn't have the byproducts of actually burning the marijuana but many of the other cannibinoids should also be in the vapor along with THC. It's not like THC is the only chemical that gets put into the mist, people smoke random stuff from their vaporizers (seriously wtf is with that...why do people smoke like chamomile...bizarre). So anyways point is, it should be more or less just like the smoke minus anything the burning process would have added.

    I don't own a vaporizer and I'm not a pothead either though. But seriously it does sound rather tempting to try someday :laugh: (the vaporizer I mean).
     
  40. ropeadope1983

    ropeadope1983 2+ Year Member

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    my hangnail really, really hurts...give me marijuana to dull the pain I'm feeling right now...please...help me out...
     
  41. kronickm

    kronickm even par. 2+ Year Member

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    Weed is neither harmless nor particularly harmful. It like everything else in this world is both used and abused. I do feel that the U.S. government is still pissed at the hippies and just about everything else in the 1960's, and they take it out on weed, sort of like Cuba in plant form. That being said, if a drug company creates a medication involving THC, and it goes through the normal protocol, you would have to support it.

    By the by did anyone see the freaking settlement Purdue Pharmaceuticals just had to pay for Oxycontin?
     
  42. musashi

    musashi Ninja Paramedic 7+ Year Member

    Do they make medical students take drug tests before or during medical school admissions. Also, are most docs tested when they get their first job after residency. Before i decided to apply to medical school I attended a P.A. application seminar and such, basically an info gathering session, and the program director stated emphatically that all new students must undergo testing. I thought this very strange. Any thoughts?
     
  43. msjenkins

    msjenkins 2+ Year Member

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    I have seen people DESTROY themselves with alcohol, I mean, destroy their lives. I have yet to see anyone do such damage with marijuana...and beleive me, I would have seen it by now.
    Legalize it.
     
  44. gary5

    gary5 Senior Member 7+ Year Member

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    If I knew a med student was doing any illicit drug, I'd turn them in and have them thrown out. Med schools have zero tolerance policies for illegal drug use. I simply think that drug users are complete losers.

    There is no such thing as medical marijuana, only dopeheads who can't live without the next fix.
     
  45. gary5

    gary5 Senior Member 7+ Year Member

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    79% for medical marijuana? I weep for the future.
     
  46. ?DreamsRMadeOf

    ?DreamsRMadeOf Banned Banned

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    In Your Dreams
    I agree. People who claim otherwise are in DENIAL!!! I just read an article about NFL Player Ricky Williams, weed caused this man to lose his mind. Hundreds of millions of possible dollars right down the drain, just to smoke weed, they say he teaches yoga now.
     
  47. jazzman84

    jazzman84 Destination darkroom 10+ Year Member

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    The potassium mines
    Are you serious? Is this thread going to turn into a rendition of Reefer Madness?

    Still, this isn't a debate about overall decriminalization, which I support, but about medicinal benefits. I tend to agree with the notion that, while marijuana has been shown to be effective at mediating pain associated with severe illnesses, its exclusive claim to such an effect has not been established. I do think that it is a relevant area of research, however. I recently read an article describing the observed inhibitory effects of THC on tumor formation, although actual marijuana smoke can be harmful in the same way as tobacco smoke.
     
  48. ?DreamsRMadeOf

    ?DreamsRMadeOf Banned Banned

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    In Your Dreams
    OK, if they could make marijuana into a pill or liquid form, I would be for it. But I bet you that all of these Pro Weed people wouldn't want it then because they can't SMOKE IT.
     
  49. jazzman84

    jazzman84 Destination darkroom 10+ Year Member

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    The potassium mines
    That was attempted with the pill Marinol, which someone brought up earlier. However, the problem seems to be maintaining the effects of THC when delivered in this way. I defer to others who know more about the details of Marinol, if anyone would care to explain the specifics.

    I'm confused, though, as you seem to directly correlate of smoking with getting high. Are you opposed to marijuana because it is a form of smoking or because it introduces a mildly altered state? To the contrary, I think that if an effective pill form were available, many, many people would embrace it, as it simplifies the whole process immeasurably.

    Oh, here's one of the articles I was talking about: http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2007/04/070417193338.htm
     
  50. badasshairday

    badasshairday Vascular and Interventional Radiology 10+ Year Member

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    Why do some of you support its decriminalization but do not support its use for medicine?

    It's weird how heroin is way worse than weed but it has medicinal values such as in pain killers like vicodine and morphine.

    Also it seems that you guys who hate it and think it is terrible only hate it because you think people are using it to simply get high. I'm sure a lot of people would love to use vicodine just to get high, so should we take it off the lists of medicines?
     
  51. ?DreamsRMadeOf

    ?DreamsRMadeOf Banned Banned

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    In Your Dreams
    It's an illegal drug, period. People just want to get high. They want want to soak it Gin, microwave it, roll it up, sit back and SMOKE it, then eat a bunch of Doritos and drink fruit punch all night. I'm near UMICH, where they have the HASH BASH every year, although attendance has declined steadily over the years. Anyway, I'm only for pills/liquids, I will NEVER agree with SMOKING a blunt for medicinal purposes. I assure you that the Pro Weed people want to smoke weed. Could you imagine going to Walgreen's and having to wait while the pharmacists roll up your blunts? :thumbdown:
     

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