Medical Marijuana

[badasshairday]

LOL, a pharmacist rolling up a blunt. Now that would be somthing to see. They'd have to add another class to the pharmacy school curriculum, "Blunt rolling 101"

I do understand where you are coming from though.

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[?DreamsRMadeOf]

LOL, a pharmacist rolling up a blunt. Now that would be somthing to see. They'd have to add another class to the pharmacy school curriculum, "Blunt rolling 101"

I do understand where you are coming from though.

LOL

 

[SunshineNYC]

I have seen people DESTROY themselves with alcohol, I mean, destroy their lives. I have yet to see anyone do such damage with marijuana...and beleive me, I would have seen it by now.
Legalize it.

People destroy their lives with alcohol, marijuana, painkillers, sex, high-risk sports, reckless driving, food, and probably everything we could ever think of. Just about anything can turn into an addiction, and some people just have addictive personalities. I don't believe that marijuana is physically addictive, whereas cigarettes and alcohol are, so it seems ridiculous that marijuana is illegal for recreational use (I was trying so hard to keep my personal opinion out of this, <sigh>). Anyway, I too think that all drugs should be legalized since anyone can get them as it is anyway. If they were regulated, they'd probably be harder for young kids to get anyway (more expensive because they'd be taxed, and there'd be an age limit). But... when there's an age limit on drinking, the kids do drugs... when there's an age limit on drugs, the kids sniff glue, or chug cough syrup. People will always do something and we should learn from history and know that it's just not going to change.

To respond to what others have said about the FDA, I was just trying to make the point that marijuana, like all other drugs, should just go through the same process as all other drugs in being considered for medical use and not be given any special treatment or attention because of popular opinion or political pressure.

 

[Cirrus83]

OK, if they could make marijuana into a pill or liquid form, I would be for it. But I bet you that all of these Pro Weed people wouldn't want it then because they can't SMOKE IT.

WTF are you talking about...people who like getting high will use any delivery form they can, so if the pills actually got them high they'd take a ton of them too. Much like people abuse Oxycontin, Vicodin, Valium, whatever. I mean hell, people are willing to inject themselves with some pretty nasty stuff to get high, and snort crap up their noses even though it causes their noses to bleed, do you really think making marijuana into pill or liquid form would make it any less appealing to get high?

What the hell do you think magic brownies/space cake is, people seem to enjoy those things plenty even though they're eaten much like pills.

Anyways, the only reason why the pro weed people are against Marinol seems to be that they claim it's not as effective. I have no clue whether this is true or not, but your claim that it's because they can't smoke it makes no sense, because getting high is getting high whether you eat it or smoke it or whatever.

 

[?DreamsRMadeOf]

WTF are you talking about...people who like getting high will use any delivery form they can, so if the pills actually got them high they'd take a ton of them too. Much like people abuse Oxycontin, Vicodin, Valium, whatever. I mean hell, people are willing to inject themselves with some pretty nasty stuff to get high, and snort crap up their noses even though it causes their noses to bleed, do you really think making marijuana into pill or liquid form would make it any less appealing to get high?

What the hell do you think magic brownies/space cake is, people seem to enjoy those things plenty even though they're eaten much like pills.

Anyways, the only reason why the pro weed people are against Marinol seems to be that they claim it's not as effective. I have no clue whether this is true or not, but your claim that it's because they can't smoke it makes no sense, because getting high is getting high whether you eat it or smoke it or whatever.

but your claim that it's because they can't smoke it makes no sense ~ This is my last time repeating this, Pro Weed people want to smoke weed, and that's all they want, I can guarantee you that if the FDA approved weed to be produced in ANY other form, the weed head brigade will still protest that it doesn't work unless they can SMOKE it. You know what, I'm done here, sure why not, legalize it, then that way people can start griping on how marijuana is killing them, then they can sue the "big 3" marijuana manufacturers for endless billions, and I'll be right there with them to get my share of that cash cow, from all the damage I suffered from catching contacts all over the darn place.

 

[gsmithers68]

I'm for legalizing and medical marijuana prescriptions. I see nothing wrong with it at all. Alcohol and tobacco are just as bad if not worse. Why are they legal? I'm not going to stop smoking herb on random occasions. Even when I'm older. If I have the opportunity to smoke a joint one Saturday afternoon when I'm not on call then you bet your ass I'm gonna do it on occasion. Why is it any different than a few gin and tonics?

Oh and it does help with glaucoma. It definitely reduces the intraocular pressure which has some of you know is what is the worst part of glaucoma because it applies pressure on your cornea and can cause permanent damage to your photoreceptors. I believe further studies will show that smoking marijuana after trauma is a good way to increase blood flow, etc. and therefore be an avenue of treatment. A few years back I suffered a blunt trauma to the eye and my intraocular pressure was through the roof for like 4 months. I had to go to the ophthalmologists' office every other day so one time I smoked a joint the night before my appointment and sure enough my pressure in my eye was lower than if I had taken my prescribed eye drops. Not only that, but I lived with a guy who smoked a **** ton of herb after a mtn biking accident where he suffered a similar blunt trauma injury. He said the doctor projected a 12-18 week recovery time. He probably smoked like once a day for 2 months and he had 20/20 vision by week 9.

I think this is worthy of further investigation. Now lets just hope the NIH will give me grant money to look into this.

 

[sonofschmilsson]

Why do some of you support its decriminalization but do not support its use for medicine?

It's weird how heroin is way worse than weed but it has medicinal values such as in pain killers like vicodine and morphine.

Also it seems that you guys who hate it and think it is terrible only hate it because you think people are using it to simply get high. I'm sure a lot of people would love to use vicodine just to get high, so should we take it off the lists of medicines?

if it's made widely available but only with a prescription you will, particularly in primary care, experience a significantly larger number of "drug seeker" patients who probably arent the people you went into medicine hoping to see everyday. i think a majority of folks here realize marijuana's not that dangerous, especially compared to the legal opiates, but aren't interested in making it another annoying part of their work day.

side note: never heard that bit about the cotton industry. i thought it was illegal because largely mexicans used it back in the temperance days, so it was an easy thing to get prohibited.

like how we're anti msg (which is safe and delicious) because chinese people use it. we're racist im sayin. or at least thats my theory

 

[tncekm]

I'm sure we could say that alcohol will relieve pain and help you forget about whatever condition you have. Should we prescibe a 12-pack of beer to patients who say that its the only thing that helps them?

No need to, its legal. Patient will self-presecribe.

But, if it had a legitimate use and there weren't more reasonable alternatives for the patients illness that could treat without the intoxication and harsh effects on the liver, why not?

Marijuana ONLY has this reputation because its a scheduled illegal drug. Its scheduled because at some point in time a politician somewhere saw some political expedience in making it so. I don't smoke weed, and I think its lame, but considering the dangers so many prescription drugs pose to patients I don't see what the harm is in prescribing weed. From a health, behavioral, and public safety standpoint, marijuana is much safer than alcohol, yet its illegal. Makes no sense.

Smoke too much weed you eat a lot, get sketchy, and possibly sleep for extended periods of time.

Take too much Tylenol you liver fails.

I find the entire war on drugs to be ridiculous much like I do the common feelings harbored toward "illegal drugs" which could potentially be used to treat people.

I think a great example is "Testosterone". It was once hailed as wonderdrug! In fact, it use to be farily widely used in the treatment of male depression, with great results and without any major side effects other than HPTA supression (but that's not a problem since the HPTA was probably already shot to begin with since said patient was low on testosterone to begin with! HLD/LDL, blood pressure, etc are unaltered by HRT levels of testosterone).

Well, along come the germans and the russians in the olympics. They kicked our asses because they started doping their athletes with steroids. So, what does the rest of the world do? "ummm....drugs are bad, mkay.". Yep, we flip out because the russians and germans cheated, went all out on a steroids are horrible campaign, demonized them to hell, and made it an unacceptable method of treatment.

Now anytime a doctor mentions the word steroid, little johnny's mommy looks at him like an evil beast and flips out, despite the fact that she has no idea what steroids are, and how they will be used to treat little johnny, and how not all steroids are even remotely the same. She just knows that Lou Dobbs on CNN said that Johnny will turn into a rabid little horndog who is going to eat other children and have sex with the leftovers and then kill himself when he comes off

Only relatively recently has testosterone made it back into the realm of medicine again--and its still not very well accepted. But, those hypogonadic people on HRT are loving it. Helps their energy level, their depression, their sex lifes, etc, etc, etc.

Same goes for Marijuana. Its very popular with cancer patients for a reason http://www.cancer.gov/cancertopics/factsheet/Support/marijuana

/rant

 

[corbis11]

what would mr. towlie do???

 

[SupernovaNights]

Just a FYI... One of the major reasons that smoking and vaporization is preferable to pill or injection is because smoking is instantaneous, allows users to self-titrate, and prevents "overdosing" which can result in headaches and nausea. Smokers tend to smoke only until they feel high, unlike tobacco and alcohol, where the "buzz" builds on itself and leads to withdrawals with discontinued use, or even pauses in use. THC is only one of the many active ingredients in cannabis, and the vaporization and smoking of these ingredients should probably remain a legitimate vector for the medication, if it is ever released as such.

 

[NCF145]

but your claim that it's because they can't smoke it makes no sense ~ This is my last time repeating this, Pro Weed people want to smoke weed, and that's all they want, I can guarantee you that if the FDA approved weed to be produced in ANY other form, the weed head brigade will still protest that it doesn't work unless they can SMOKE it. You know what, I'm done here, sure why not, legalize it, then that way people can start griping on how marijuana is killing them, then they can sue the "big 3" marijuana manufacturers for endless billions, and I'll be right there with them to get my share of that cash cow, from all the damage I suffered from catching contacts all over the darn place.

The reason most people smoke marijuana is for two reasons 1.) It is the easiest way to introduce the drug into one's system and 2.) It allows for people to socialize while they perform the act of becoming intoxicated. If they made pills that contained a potent form of alcohol that got you drunk with only one or two pills, I would bet a lot of money that people would still go to bars and drink the liquid form of alcohol. Why? It allows you to socialize throughout the process. When I lived in The Netherlands, you didn't see many people eating space cakes or smoking alone. You saw people come in with a group of friends, smoke a joint and socialize with each other.

So yes, people would still want to smoke, but not for the reason you stated. Most people on these boareds who have an opinion about marijuana cannot speak from experience. Even if you have had an extensive experience with it in college it is still not the same. It has been in an environment built on hiding the fact that you consume an illegal substance and where most everyone else holds pre-conceived and often false notions of what you are doing. Spend some time in an environment where use is accepted, pervasive and most importantly, legal. You will come to see the ramifications of marijuana use and its effects on society in general.

 

[tncekm]

Just a FYI... One of the major reasons that smoking and vaporization is preferable to pill or injection is because smoking is instantaneous, allows users to self-titrate, and prevents "overdosing" which can result in headaches and nausea. Smokers tend to smoke only until they feel high, unlike tobacco and alcohol, where the "buzz" builds on itself and leads to withdrawals with discontinued use, or even pauses in use. THC is only one of the many active ingredients in cannabis, and the vaporization and smoking of these ingredients should probably remain a legitimate vector for the medication, if it is ever released as such.

The vaporization vector is very important for the reasons you described. It was in the link I put at the bottom of my post, too.

Good Post.

 

[tncekm]

Spend some time in an environment where use is accepted, pervasive and most importantly, legal. You will come to see the ramifications of marijuana use and its effects on society in general.

Just wanted to make sure that people realize that the above issue is separate from the main topic.

If the world was full of doped up potheads, yeah, I think that would suck. But, society in our part of the world has built itself in such a way that people who choose to live their lives intoxicated (without medical necessity) are looked down upon, and THAT is the motivating factor for most. Its looked down upon and nobody wants to be a dirt-bag.

Same goes for alcohol. Its completely legal, and people become VERY dependent. But, we're not overrun with drunks because drunks are looked upon as scum and people usually prefer to live their lives in their right mind.

 

[On3H34rT]

Yeah it really is ridiculous that MJ is a schedule III drug. The main reason to this is not because its some crazy drug but because the cotton industry pushed for it to become illegal due to the potential competition from hemp.

Also, most of the MJ in California is grown here rather than imported. Growers take advantage of the long growing season. They have had drug busts here in which thousands of plants were confiscated and burned. By decrimilzing it perhaps the taxes should go to pay for our public education in California which costs a arm and a ****ing leg. They should also build another med school in our state with that money.

Last time I checked it was a Schedule I drug which btw..I agree is irresponsible.

Instead of the government spending BILLIONS of dollars on strictly enforcing Marijuana laws... to think they could put that money to crimes that you know...are actually.... really bad.. such as rape or murder ... or even to.. dare if i say it.. Education in states that are obviously lacking.. like mine!

Hierarchy//priorities seem to be out of order.

It has always amazed me that the government places Marijuana in the same category as Heroin and Crack cocaine...

 

[senseiturtle]

Thing is, a doctor can prescribe WAY, WAY more powerful / intoxicating / abusive substances than simple "weed."

I honestly don't know why the government has such a big hard-on against this substance, but I'm sure a lot of it has to do with money. It would be difficult to tax and regulate, and give competition to some very powerful lobbies in congress.

However, once Hilary gets elected, I'm sure legalizing pot will come right after socializing medicine and destroying the profit motive of being a physician.

 

[badasshairday]

Hardcore republican above this post.

 

[On3H34rT]

I have never seen a hardcore republican vote for the legalization of marijuana :/

 

[SupernovaNights]

Ron Paul is a pretty hard core republican for the legalization of medical marijuana. I'm not much a fan of his, but they are definitely out there. That being said, thank you for commenting on my post about the vaporization vector. As I said, even if smoking does not become the "acceptable" vector, vaporization of the elements is possibly the safest way to get the same effects from cannabis with the same self-titration benefits that smoking offers.

As for people suggesting that there are already much stronger pain meds than marijuana, they are completely correct. I mean, why not just give vicodin to everyone in pain? Or why not load them up with drugs that blow out their kidneys, livers, and severely alter their blood chemistry? The reason that people in pain, cancer patients, and chronic sufferers of other conditions use marijuana is because it is just as or more effective as a medication to them, without the negative slew of effects that other prescription drugs have.

It's time for politicians to get their hands out of medicine and leave it up to intelligent doctors, who I believe have a better picture of the issue.


One last thing to leave you with.. Marijuana is a schedule I drug... it shares this class with crystal meth, heroin, MDMA, and mescaline. Cocaine is a schedule II drug. Here are the criteria for a schedule 1 drug... "This drug has a high abuse potential, no acceptable medical use, and may lead to severe psychological or physical dependence."[FONT=Arial, sans-serif][SIZE=-1][/SIZE].

 

[On3H34rT]

Scratch this.

 

[On3H34rT]

Ron Paul is a pretty hard core republican for the legalization of medical marijuana. I'm not much a fan of his, but they are definitely out there. That being said, thank you for commenting on my post about the vaporization vector. As I said, even if smoking does not become the "acceptable" vector, vaporization of the elements is possibly the safest way to get the same effects from cannabis with the same self-titration benefits that smoking offers.

As for people suggesting that there are already much stronger pain meds than marijuana, they are completely correct. I mean, why not just give vicodin to everyone in pain? Or why not load them up with drugs that blow out their kidneys, livers, and severely alter their blood chemistry? The reason that people in pain, cancer patients, and chronic sufferers of other conditions use marijuana is because it is just as or more effective as a medication to them, without the negative slew of effects that other prescription drugs have.

It's time for politicians to get their hands out of medicine and leave it up to intelligent doctors, who I believe have a better picture of the issue.


One last thing to leave you with.. Marijuana is a schedule I drug... it shares this class with crystal meth, heroin, MDMA, and mescaline. Cocaine is a schedule II drug. Here are the criteria for a schedule 1 drug... "This drug has a high abuse potential, no acceptable medical use, and may lead to severe psychological or physical dependence."[FONT=Arial, sans-serif][SIZE=-1][/SIZE].

Very well said. Kudos.

I also want to post..this.. it seems accurate but if it isn't, let me know.

http://www.drugwarfacts.org/causes.htm

Compare the deaths due to marijuana.. to Aspirin and other prescription drugs

I rest my case.

 

[Zantetsuken]

but your claim that it's because they can't smoke it makes no sense ~ This is my last time repeating this, Pro Weed people want to smoke weed, and that's all they want, I can guarantee you that if the FDA approved weed to be produced in ANY other form, the weed head brigade will still protest that it doesn't work unless they can SMOKE it. You know what, I'm done here, sure why not, legalize it, then that way people can start griping on how marijuana is killing them, then they can sue the "big 3" marijuana manufacturers for endless billions, and I'll be right there with them to get my share of that cash cow, from all the damage I suffered from catching contacts all over the darn place.

Am I the only one that doesn't understand wtf this guy is saying? Who are you to generalize everyone that is pro-weed? You don't even have a point or supporting reasons, just spreading your conservative hate. You need to chill out and smoke a blunt maybe.

quote:"Its an illegal drug, period"
Would you say the same thing if alcohol became illegal again? What if something that could save a life was made illegal for false or money reasons? What if the govt. forced you to risk your life or people you love to fight a war overseas for selfish reasons? Are you that much of a puppet to your govt?

 

[On3H34rT]

I think this Dream person.. needs to look at those statistics I posted.

Marijuana has never killed anyone.

and yet it's dangerous?

mk.

Aspirin must be really freaking dangerous then.

This is probably one of those kids drinking back some good ole liquid courage in the same breath as saying Marijuana is immoral and dangerous.

 

[DDSBound]

So against this! There is a REASON why marijuana is ILLEGAL! I would NEVER think it right to encourage legalizing an illegal drug. Cardio, respiratory and immune systems can all be compromised. Even if used for terminal patients, this is wrong. Just say no. This drug is BAD and can be EASILY abused regardless of whether or not it causes dependence!

Source: My dad is an MD. We talk about this a LOT.

 

[On3H34rT]

What's your view on alcohol then?


Vicodin?

How about Ibuprofen?

I mean they are legal and yet the common view is that these substances are often abused. Tobacco is legal and yet it is the leading cause of death in America. So you going by that logic.. really doesn't help your case any because obviously the governments classifications are completely "whack". My point is that you said Marijuana is bad.. because it is illegal.. so if it were made legal you wouldn't believe it is bad? This very logic is what we are fighting here.. We want it LEGAL because it is NOT dangerous. It isn't It is bad because it is illegal, but rather it is illegal because it's bad. Legal drugs now are much more dangerous. Again..

MARIJUANA HAS NEVER KILLED ANYONE!

I'd like to see the addiction rates of popular legal narcotics.. along with their overdose rates..
and yes.. my grammar is probably horrible, as well as my choice of words.. but ehh.. I'm lazy.

Your philosophy on the subject is only credible if the government's policy is credible which just happens to be the root of the problem.

 

[DDSBound]

What's your view on alcohol then?


Vicodin?

How about Ibuprofen?

I mean they are legal and yet the common view is that these substances are often abused. Tobacco is legal and yet it is the leading cause of death in America. So you going by that logic.. really doesn't help your case any because obviously the governments classifications are completely "whack". My point is that you said Marijuana is bad.. because it is illegal.. so if it were made legal you wouldn't believe it is bad? This very logic is what we are fighting here.. We want it LEGAL because it is NOT dangerous. It isn't It is bad because it is illegal, but rather it is illegal because it's bad. Legal drugs now are much more dangerous. Again..

MARIJUANA HAS NEVER KILLED ANYONE!

I'd like to see the addiction rates of popular legal narcotics.. along with their overdose rates..
and yes.. my grammar is probably horrible, as well as my choice of words.. but ehh.. I'm lazy.

Your philosophy on the subject is only credible if the government's policy is credible which just happens to be the root of the problem.

Well, there is a need for certain drugs, I just don't believe that marijuana is one of them. As I mentioned above, it can cause severe problems over time with respiratory, cardiovascular and immune function. Many drugs probably can, but it is well documented with marijuana. Why add another to the list?

 

[RootCanal]

Well, there is a need for certain drugs, I just don't believe that marijuana is one of them. As I mentioned above, it can cause severe problems over time with respiratory, cardiovascular and immune function. Many drugs probably can, but it is well documented with marijuana. Why add another to the list?

This coming from a future dentist that is hooked on OxyContin? How hypocritical!

 

[Zantetsuken]

DDSBound, are you then for the illegalization of tobacco, alcohol, and McDonalds?

edit: my mom is addicted to McDonalds and it really is killing her

 

[DDSBound]

DDSBound, are you then for the illegalization of tobacco, alcohol, and McDonalds?

I said why add another to the list? People have managed this long without medicinal marijuana. I think it would just open a pandoras box. I'm not for making anything legal illegal. I'm for keeping illegal drugs illegal if there is reason for it. With marijuana, I firmly believe there are good reasons to keep it illegal.

RootCanal: Stop following me around and spreading things!!! It's irritating and immature.

 

[momo101485]

i just have a bad feeling about this stuff...

 

[Zantetsuken]

I said why add another to the list? People have managed this long without medicinal marijuana. I think it would just open a pandoras box. I'm not for making anything legal illegal. I'm for keeping illegal drugs illegal if there is reason for it. With marijuana, I firmly believe there are good reasons to keep it illegal.

RootCanal: Stop following me around and spreading things!!! It's irritating and immature.

I think the latest research on the relative dangers of each drug should be more of a factor than whether the drug was illegal or legal to begin with. MJ was made illegal for money and reefer madness reasons. I'd like to know what effects of weed are so bad that the other 3 legal drugs I gave don't also have.

edit: oo backup came, I hope we don't sound too hostile heh

 

[realitybias]

DDSB- How about you enlighten us with your knowledge on marijuana's effect on the respiratory, cardiovascular, and immune system?

The fact of the matter is, there are too many vectors and safe ways to consume marijuana these days. Vaporization has destroyed the last of the objections to marijuana's safety profile, as vaporization eliminates the tar resin that can accumulate in the lungs and cause bronchitis. That being said, because the tar contains no nicotine, it does not cause lung cancer. There is no known deaths caused by marijuana, and you repeating this ad nauseum is not justifying your seemingly incoherent logic on why it should not be used.

Aspirin, Tylenol, and Ibuprofin, all over the counter drugs, are commonly abused, have a safety profile that is MUCH more harmful than marijuana, and over extended periods of time, will damage your liver, kidneys and even lead to death. Vicodin, a potent narcotic, is much more easily abused, much more deadly, and has a much more harmful safety profile, and yet it is scheduled bellow marijuana. The reason marijuana is used, is because of its safety, lack of side effects, availability, cost, and ability to treat pain without making a patient feel like they are losing control of their life.

Let me put you in a situation that I am very familiar with, and many doctors are familiar with... A patient comes to you, with intense pain (I don't particularly care of the cause). This pain is enough to qualify them as disabled, and every day, they just want to die. You can give them vicodin, and slowly watch as their health degrades over a few years, watch as their kidneys shut down, and watch as they refuse to eat. You can give them these new, experimental drugs that we are completely unsure of how they work.. which cause them to want to throw up, and 3 years later are discovered to cause cancer. Or, you can allow them to smoke marijuana, which might give them within a few years a few minor colds, but otherwise treats their pain, allows them to continue to eat healthy, and makes them happy without causing them to vomit, lose sexual interest, catch a case of liver cancer, or become chemically dependent and addicted... Heck, there is even evidence that it FIGHTS cancer!

It is an INJUSTICE that you can go to the store and pop a tylenol, go to the store and buy alcohol, smoke a cigarette, and be perscribed drugs that have harmful side effects and a bad safety profile... but if you're a doctor that recommends marijuana, you risk having your license pulled. DOCTORS should have the final say in what is right for their patients. Heck, it isn't like doctors are just dumb drones who didn't go to school for over 10 years studying about these things.

Legalization is coming. Too many doctors want it... and since we at SDN are the future of the medical community, judging from that poll above.. it wont take too long.

 

[tncekm]

So against this! There is a REASON why marijuana is ILLEGAL! I would NEVER think it right to encourage legalizing an illegal drug. Cardio, respiratory and immune systems can all be compromised. Even if used for terminal patients, this is wrong. Just say no. This drug is BAD and can be EASILY abused regardless of whether or not it causes dependence!

Source: My dad is an MD. We talk about this a LOT.

Almost any drug is going to have a side effect (or side effects). What is critical is figuring out whether or not the pros outweigh the cons. For many cancer patients, the pros of medical marijuana outweigh the cons.

Your dad may be an MD, but even MD's have "opinions". I can assure you there are plenty of medical professionals (MD's amongst them) that are for the use of medical marijuana for legitimate purposes.

 

[Mardi-Bob]

Thought I add the history on the criminalization of marijuana.

Surprise, Surprise marijuana criminalization was led more by racism than anything else.

Recreational use of marijuana was introduced by the influx of Mexican immigrants in 1910 due to the Mexican Revolution. In the 1930's research (now rebuked) linked marijuana use with crime, perpetrated mostly by minorities.

Hairy J. Anslinger (First drug czar) was an outspoken critic of marijuana.
Here is a sample of his many quotes:

"There are 100,000 total marijuana smokers in the US, and most are Negroes, Hispanics, Filipinos, and entertainers. Their Satanic music, jazz, and swing, result from marijuana use. This marijuana causes white women to seek sexual relations with Negroes, entertainers, and any others."

"...the primary reason to outlaw marijuana is its effect on the degenerate races."

"Marijuana is an addictive drug which produces in its users insanity, criminality, and death."

"Reefer makes darkies think they're as good as white men."

"Marihuana leads to pacifism and communist brainwashing"

"You smoke a joint and you're likely to kill your brother."

"Marijuana is the most violence-causing drug in the history of mankind."

And he loved to pull out his own version of the "assassin" definition:

"In the year 1090, there was founded in Persia the religious and military order of the Assassins, whose history is one of cruelty, barbarity, and murder, and for good reason: the members were confirmed users of hashish, or marihuana, and it is from the Arabs' 'hashashin' that we have the English word 'assassin.'"

Seems funny now, but that guy was serious.

 

[realitybias]

"hashashin"

 

[Mardi-Bob]

Main Entry: as·sas·sin
Pronunciation: &-'sa-s&n
Function: noun
Etymology: Medieval Latin assassinus, from Arabic hashshAshIn, plural of hashshAsh worthless person, literally, hashish user, from hashIsh hashish

well looks like the negative connotations of "pot heads" is etched even in our language.

 

[sonofschmilsson]

One last thing to leave you with.. Marijuana is a schedule I drug... it shares this class with crystal meth, heroin, MDMA, and mescaline. Cocaine is a schedule II drug. Here are the criteria for a schedule 1 drug... "This drug has a high abuse potential, no acceptable medical use, and may lead to severe psychological or physical dependence."

it does have a high abuse potential, may lead to (severe?) psychological dependence, and has no accepted (by the fda) medical use, so it fits the criteria.

there are other drugs that are poorer fits - entheogen use doesn't lead to dependence, for example. most of them are schedule I

plus reefer makes darkies think they're as good as white men

 

[SupernovaNights]

Entheogens belong there. They have absolutely no medical value, often lead to high dependence (look at MDMA), and have a high abuse potential... and yet, even entheogens are legal in many places for religious ceremonies, but Marijuana when used for medicine is not.

Sonof, it's a stretch to say that marijuana leads to severe dependence over, say Vicodin, Tylenol, or amphetamine (Ritalin). Its a stretch to say that the drug itself leads to dependence at all (rather than the person using it.). Television leads to psychological dependence, but I wouldn't necessarily call the dependence severe (although I daresay it is many factors more severe than "cannabis dependence.")

The fact of the matter is, even for drugs that are poorer fits, none of them offer the safety profile of marijuana with its ability to aid in several illnesses. Clinical trial after clinical trial, people continue to discover how safe cannabis is, and its promise for use in the clinical setting. Already in several states, doctors prescribe the drug in fear of loosing their license because it is absolutely the best option for their patients.

I bring up the example of a chronic pain patient again... you can give him or her the most used drugs, such as hydrocodone, oxycodone, codeine, etc... which, over a long period of time, leads to severe chemical dependence and many negative side effects, and what could kill them in the long run. You can give them drugs that are 6 years old, a new one coming out every day, where 3 years down the line, they discover it causes cancer and a huge lawsuit takes place. You can watch as they waste away, physically, because of the inefficiency of some drugs currently on the market... or you can give them a drug that has a high safety profile, a low toxicity, and will not only aid in pain relief, but do so in a matter that stimulates appetite.

There is absolutely no reason it should not be allowed. Heck, it IS allowed in some states, where chronic sufferers do not have to be as afraid of wasting away on horrible medications. Physicians are smart enough to make their own decisions, and have gone through plenty of training to get where they are. Too many physicians want this, too many future physicians want this. I really don't see how it wont happen.

 

[On3H34rT]

I have to throw in a personal experience. I have a Chronic Illness with pain.. called Mixed Connective Tissue Disease. One of my many medications is a daily dose of Relafin (a NSAID). I am just now 18 years old and I have been on a daily dose of Relafen since age 16. I have also struggled even with it and have gone towards stronger pain medications (although I understand I need the NSAID to reduce inflammation). I am young and the pain is only to get worse when I grow older. What options do I have? I can either up my NSAID dose which can cause many problems, or I can get a daily dose of stronger pain medication and become addicted. I am not saying I need to drop all of my medications such as Methotrexate for Marijuana and it will solve my problems, but as far as the pain factor goes, I have to believe Marijuana would be safer than my daily 2000 mg of Relafen or any other pain medication alternative.

 

[ropeadope1983]

but as far as the pain factor goes, I have to believe Marijuana would be safer than my daily 2000 mg of Relafen or any other pain medication alternative.

Is that belief based on absolutely nothing at all?

 

[Doctor Bagel]

Volunteer at a cancer treatment clinic for a while and you'll meet lots of folks with cannabis club cards who actually need them. The reason your personally only meet college kids with the cards is probably that you're a college kid yourself.

If they do decide to get rid of medicinal marijuana as it exists here in California, I hope they do away with valium and viagra as well. I mean, hey, most of the folks I know on these drugs are perfectly healthy middle age folks...

Yep. My dad just had a friend who died of lung cancer who lived in California. Supposedly the only thing that helped his nausea was marijuana. Just because one knows a lot of stoner college students who abuse the system doesn't mean there aren't lots of people out there getting marijuana for legitimate medical reasons.

 

[realitybias]

Is that belief based on absolutely nothing at all?

You've got some nerve to ask him that. Here's a clinical safety profile of relafin...

This medicine can increase your risk of life-threatening heart or circulation problems, including heart attack or stroke. This risk will increase the longer you use Relafen. Do not use this medicine just before or after having heart bypass surgery (also called coronary artery bypass graft, or CABG).

Seek emergency medical help if you have symptoms of heart or circulation problems, such as chest pain, weakness, shortness of breath, slurred speech, or problems with vision or balance.

This medicine can also increase your risk of serious effects on the stomach or intestines, including bleeding or perforation (forming of a hole). These conditions can be fatal and gastrointestinal effects can occur without warning at any time while you are taking Relafen. Older adults may have an even greater risk of these serious gastrointestinal side effects.
---------------

You don't get any of that with marijuana. Marijuana not only does not cause bleeding stomach, fatal gastrointestinal systems, or increase risk of these deadly effects as use increases. Marijuana is also much safer on older adults.

The clinical safety profile of Marijuana is even better than aspirin.

For this guys case, he'll keep having to take NSAIDS, but say medical marijuana becomes legal... he may be able to switch those NSAIDs to something a lot weaker, like acetaminophen, without worrying about life threatening complications.

Not one person has died from Marijuana yet. That's more than I can say for aspirin, tylenol, dex-containing tussin compounds, and other legal, over the counter drugs.

 

[ropeadope1983]

You've got some nerve to ask him that. Here's a clinical safety profile of relafin...

This medicine can increase your risk of life-threatening heart or circulation problems, including heart attack or stroke. This risk will increase the longer you use Relafen. Do not use this medicine just before or after having heart bypass surgery (also called coronary artery bypass graft, or CABG).

Seek emergency medical help if you have symptoms of heart or circulation problems, such as chest pain, weakness, shortness of breath, slurred speech, or problems with vision or balance.

This medicine can also increase your risk of serious effects on the stomach or intestines, including bleeding or perforation (forming of a hole). These conditions can be fatal and gastrointestinal effects can occur without warning at any time while you are taking Relafen. Older adults may have an even greater risk of these serious gastrointestinal side effects.
---------------

You don't get any of that with marijuana. Marijuana not only does not cause bleeding stomach, fatal gastrointestinal systems, or increase risk of these deadly effects as use increases. Marijuana is also much safer on older adults.

The clinical safety profile of Marijuana is even better than aspirin.

For this guys case, he'll keep having to take NSAIDS, but say medical marijuana becomes legal... he may be able to switch those NSAIDs to something a lot weaker, like acetaminophen, without worrying about life threatening complications.

Not one person has died from Marijuana yet. That's more than I can say for aspirin, tylenol, dex-containing tussin compounds, and other legal, over the counter drugs.

Ever hear of emphysema among other COPD's caused by smoking? But I guess those aren't such serious or painful health problems to be concerned about, this from someone who works for a pulmonologist. Especially when you are talking about an 18 year old who could suffer from chronic COPD, which may prove to be a lot more painful for the rest of his life than what he has right now. But I guess it does take some nerve for me to question why someone thinks that smoking anything is a good idea, especially starting at the age of 18. Reality flash pal...smoking anything is very bad for you (unless of course you don't believe your lungs are important and potentially a source of great pain if pathologic).

 

[realitybias]

Rope -

Its too bad that vaporization destroys that objection to smoking marijuana. That being said, read this study by the american journal of respiratory and critical care medicine:

http://ajrccm.atsjournals.org/cgi/content/abstract/155/1/141

So even smoking marijuana over 8 years does not seem to be associated with chronic COPD.

But even so, you are right that smoking marijuana may cause acute bronchitis from time to time, but even with this, it is a lot safer than blowing your liver, kidneys, and burning holes through your stomach through the use of NSAIDS for your entire life. Taking tylenol as much as one takes marijuana, for instance, with all else equal, would lead to devastating physiological effects.

It is a MOCKERY that people can go to a convenience store, smoke a pack a day, buy alcohol, take tylenol daily, be perscribed drugs such as vicodin with horrible safety profiles, and yet they cannot be prescribed marijuana by a competent physician. Yet, even today, physicians prescribe it even through they are at risk of losing their license.

Like I said though, this whole discussion is moot with the availability of vaporization as a vector for treating chronic pain, loss of appetite, and other related symptoms without causing extensive negative side effects.

 

[SupernovaNights]

Ever hear of emphysema among other COPD's caused by smoking? But I guess those aren't such serious or painful health problems to be concerned about, this from someone who works for a pulmonologist. Especially when you are talking about an 18 year old who could suffer from chronic COPD, which may prove to be a lot more painful for the rest of his life than what he has right now. But I guess it does take some nerve for me to question why someone thinks that smoking anything is a good idea, especially starting at the age of 18. Reality flash pal...smoking anything is very bad for you (unless of course you don't believe your lungs are important and potentially a source of great pain if pathologic).

Are you REALLY suggesting that Relafen is safer than vaporized cannabis?

 

[ropeadope1983]

Rope -

Its too bad that vaporization destroys that objection to smoking marijuana. That being said, read this study by the american journal of respiratory and critical care medicine:

http://ajrccm.atsjournals.org/cgi/content/abstract/155/1/141

So even smoking marijuana over 8 years does not seem to be associated with chronic COPD.

But even so, you are right that smoking marijuana may cause acute bronchitis from time to time, but even with this, it is a lot safer than blowing your liver, kidneys, and burning holes through your stomach through the use of NSAIDS for your entire life. Taking tylenol as much as one takes marijuana, for instance, with all else equal, would lead to devastating physiological effects.

It is a MOCKERY that people can go to a convenience store, smoke a pack a day, buy alcohol, take tylenol daily, be perscribed drugs such as vicodin with horrible safety profiles, and yet they cannot be prescribed marijuana by a competent physician. Yet, even today, physicians prescribe it even through they are at risk of losing their license.

Like I said though, this whole discussion is moot with the availability of vaporization as a vector for treating chronic pain, loss of appetite, and other related symptoms without causing extensive negative side effects.

Gotta run for now. But read this article too if you think all is known about the effects of Mary Jane:
Effects of marijuana smoking on pulmonary function and respiratory complications: a systematic review.

• Tetrault JM,
• Crothers K,
• Moore BA,
• Mehra R,
• Concato J,
• Fiellin DA.

 

[SupernovaNights]

Gotta run for now. But read this article too if you think all is known about the effects of Mary Jane:
Effects of marijuana smoking on pulmonary function and respiratory complications: a systematic review.

• Tetrault JM,
• Crothers K,
• Moore BA,
• Mehra R,
• Concato J,
• Fiellin DA.

Effects of marijuana smoking.

Not only did the research not find lung cancer, but all it found were increase in minor respiratory symptoms like cough, phlegm, etc. In users that have smoked for what is apparently 40 years.

Even from the article itself...

"Authors suggested that cannabis inhalation via specialized delivery systems such as vaporizers would likely yield different results."

Case closed.

 

[On3H34rT]

I appreciate those who defended my case so I didn't have too. Everything I was going to say was said .

As far as the "college kids" who abuse the medical marijuana cards.. what about the "kids" who abuse Xanax? Xanax is the number one abused drug on my college campus according to Campus Police (our college has a larger police department than the city itself). Yes, it is even more abused than marijuana. There are going to be people who abuse the system, but that's been going on for years with numerous other medications. That is not a reason to keep marijuana illegal.

 

[sonofschmilsson]

Entheogens belong there. They have absolutely no medical value, often lead to high dependence (look at MDMA), and have a high abuse potential... and yet, even entheogens are legal in many places for religious ceremonies, but Marijuana when used for medicine is not.

Sonof, it's a stretch to say that marijuana leads to severe dependence over, say Vicodin, Tylenol, or amphetamine (Ritalin). Its a stretch to say that the drug itself leads to dependence at all (rather than the person using it.). Television leads to psychological dependence, but I wouldn't necessarily call the dependence severe (although I daresay it is many factors more severe than "cannabis dependence.")

it's argued by some that entheogens have medical value in a psychiatric setting. i wouldn't argue that entheogens don't have a high abuse potential - if they were approved for medical use, this use would probably constitute a very small percentage of total use (similar to marijuana). however, they are not addictive. i dont think ecstacy is typically considered a psychedelic. the experience of mushrooms, lsd, peyote, etc is of varied strength but similar quality (and never lead to "high dependence" as you assert), whereas e is qualitatively different. if it's addictive i assume it's because of its properties as an amphetamine.

i was unaware that regular tylenol use led to psychological dependence akin to marijuana. worse for the liver, sure

also, i'm not sure you can argue that people's unhealthy relationships with tv are "many factors more severe" than those with cannabis. the detriment to the lives of people addicted to either of these things is i think of a very similar quality and extent. they regularly go hand in hand, in fact, and both often lead to a sedentary lifestyle and excessive junk food consumption

plus, you know, reefer makes darkies think they're as good as white men

 

[SupernovaNights]

it's argued by some that entheogens have medical value in a psychiatric setting. i wouldn't argue that entheogens don't have a high abuse potential - if they were approved for medical use, this use would probably constitute a very small percentage of total use (similar to marijuana). however, they are not addictive. i dont think ecstacy is typically considered a psychedelic. the experience of mushrooms, lsd, peyote, etc is of varied strength but similar quality (and never lead to "high dependence" as you assert), whereas e is qualitatively different. if it's addictive i assume it's because of its properties as an amphetamine.

i was unaware that regular tylenol use led to psychological dependence akin to marijuana. worse for the liver, sure

also, i'm not sure you can argue that people's unhealthy relationships with tv are "many factors more severe" than those with cannabis. the detriment to the lives of people addicted to either of these things is i think of a very similar quality and extent. they regularly go hand in hand, in fact, and both often lead to a sedentary lifestyle and excessive junk food consumption

plus, you know, reefer makes darkies think they're as good as white men

I think this whole argument detracts from the real reason that marijuana should be legalized. It provides the benefits of many drugs that are out there on the over-the-counter market, without any of the negative side effects, chemical dependence, age-dependent potentially dangerous complications, and heck, it doesn't even have to come with that phony grape taste that they stick into medicines these days.

 

[realitybias]

it's argued by some that entheogens have medical value in a psychiatric setting. i wouldn't argue that entheogens don't have a high abuse potential - if they were approved for medical use, this use would probably constitute a very small percentage of total use (similar to marijuana). however, they are not addictive. i dont think ecstacy is typically considered a psychedelic. the experience of mushrooms, lsd, peyote, etc is of varied strength but similar quality (and never lead to "high dependence" as you assert), whereas e is qualitatively different. if it's addictive i assume it's because of its properties as an amphetamine.

i was unaware that regular tylenol use led to psychological dependence akin to marijuana. worse for the liver, sure

also, i'm not sure you can argue that people's unhealthy relationships with tv are "many factors more severe" than those with cannabis. the detriment to the lives of people addicted to either of these things is i think of a very similar quality and extent. they regularly go hand in hand, in fact, and both often lead to a sedentary lifestyle and excessive junk food consumption

plus, you know, reefer makes darkies think they're as good as white men

Alright. Alcohol and cigarettes are many factors more deadly, the regular use of acetaminophen leads to liver damage and isn't nearly as strong of a pain reliever, dex-containing cough syrups are more abused and addicting, and marijuana of all things is bad because it can "lead to a sedentary lifestyle and junk food consumption."

I really take it that you have no ability to distinguish the lifestyles of those who use the drug recreationally and those who use the drug medicinally, because let me tell you, those who use the drug medicinally would be appalled. Whenever you're on chemo, whenever you live with chronic pain, whenever arthritis drugs cause heart attacks every other day, patients only want a medicine they can turn to that makes them feel better without shutting down their body systems progressively. Why a doctor cannot make the decision on what is best for his patient, while we allow people to go ruin their lives on alcohol and cigarettes and repeated pain medicine, is anyones guess.