Medical research during high school

[MrPuff]

Is medical research from junior year in high school appropriate to put on med school application if it resulted in me getting a middle author on a journal paper?

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[Isoval]

Sure, as long as it was a meaningful contribution that you can actually speak on if asked.

 

[LizzyM]

A publication goes on your CV and lives there forever. Of course you should include it!

 

[MrPuff]

Thank you @Isoval and @LizzyM for your replies. As far as a meaningful contribution, I collected data during endoscopic and colonoscopic procedures and then collated and graphed the data. It was about 400 hours of paid research work over the summer.

 

[Isoval]

Thank you @Isoval and @LizzyM for your replies. As far as a meaningful contribution, I collected data during endoscopic and colonoscopic procedures and then collated and graphed the data. It was about 400 hours of paid research work over the summer.

I would probably include it, especially if you can describe the value of your contribution in the context of the study's goal. It's fairly unlikely that anyone would actually ask you this with such specificity, but you would definitely look like an idiot if someone did and you couldn't answer. But yeah, I would probably include.

 

[a_distant_dream]

Definitely include it! I also did HS junior year summer research and mine was much less productive than yours (it even features in a few “tell me about a time you failed” prompts).

 

[SahilMehtaMD]

You should include it, but review the project again thoroughly to make sure you are prepared if they ask you about it in interviews.

 

[MrPuff]

I was able to complete another 400 hours of research this past summer in a different medical specialty. We submitted an abstract (first author) but it wasn't accepted. During my gap year, I may pick up more research hours with one of the two PIs with whom I have already worked.

With Covid hitting during my freshman and sophomore years, I'm really lacking in volunteer work. Currently, I have about 200 hours - over the past 1.5 years - leading a group on campus that is designing and building a motorized prosthetic limb for a specific recipient. My plan is to continue this EC for the next year and a half and I should have about 400 hours by the time I graduate. I also plan to start volunteering at both a free clinic and mental health facility next summer while I'm studying for the MCAT (August). My hope is to have about 300-400 hours at each before I apply during the 2024 cycle. Specifically regarding these ECs, would this quality and quantity of research (750 hours), clinical (300-400 hours) and non-clinical (700-800 hours) volunteering make me a competitive candidate for most (including some of the top) medical schools?

Any advice would be very much appreciated - @Mr.Smile12, @LizzyM, @Goro, and others.

 

[Mr.Smile12]

I'd consider including it, but understand that many schools will not really place weight on any activities done in high school. But I would be proud of that publication.

Hours are important, but the way it is described, you sound like you are just going to check boxes. Quality is important, but so is personal/professional impact. Don't just do things to get into medical school. Building a prosthetic for a specific patient is great; aren't you getting academic credit? Isn't this a project that we should expect someone with your degree to be doing (in other words, it's an obligation for graduation)? Leading such a group is leadership, not community service.

We also have no clue about your geographical advantages or any demographics about you to make any nuanced suggestions.

 

[GoSpursGo]

Is medical research from junior year in high school appropriate to put on med school application if it resulted in me getting a middle author on a journal paper?

Yes

 

[MrPuff]

@Mr.Smile12, I'm a neuroscience major, and building the prosthetic is a club project on campus - so no academic credit is provided. I lead a team consisting of mechanical engineers, electrical engineers, and computer scientists. The recipients of the prosthetics are disadvantaged, low-income residents of our community.

 

[MrPuff]

@Mr.Smile12, my apologies for making my question infer that I was "box checking"; perhaps I should have phrased it differently. I know medical schools value candidates that have a genuine interest in giving back to the community. Since my major is neuroscience, and I've taken many psychology courses, I am very much looking forward to volunteering at our town's mental healthcare facility. In fact, I currently have a stong interest in Psychiatry as a potential career. The free clinic volunteer position would allow me to gain a valuable perspective on healthcare provided to those less fortunate than me.

I am currently at a T-20 and I'm ORM (White).

 

[Mr.Smile12]

@Mr.Smile12, my apologies for making my question infer that I was "box checking"; perhaps I should have phrased it differently. I know medical schools value candidates that have a genuine interest in giving back to the community. Since my major is neuroscience, and I've taken many psychology courses, I am very much looking forward to volunteering at our town's mental healthcare facility. In fact, I currently have a stong interest in Psychiatry as a potential career. The free clinic volunteer position would allow me to gain a valuable perspective on healthcare provided to those less fortunate than me.

I am currently at a T-20 and I'm ORM (White).

So then how do you see yourself contributing to the profession and helping others? Is it more like the biomedical engineer? Is it more like a clinical psychologist or a mental health care provider? Or is it something totally different and you would be fine walking completely away from these? It is important because it will frame your purpose to pursue medicine and shape the list of schools you would best fit.

 

[MrPuff]

I envision continuing to do both research and community volunteer work while being a medical student - and as a physician. It's difficult to say if my activities in the future will mirror the ones I'm doing today but I'm sure the underlying reasons for being involved in these activities will remain constant throughout my life.

 

[Kierkegaard's Bud]

I envision continuing to do both research and community volunteer work while being a medical student - and as a physician. It's difficult to say if my activities in the future will mirror the ones I'm doing today but I'm sure the underlying reasons for being involved in these activities will remain constant throughout my life.

Expand upon this in your app, it’s a common and valued perspective. No need to include “It's difficult to say if my activities in the future will mirror the ones I'm doing today”, it’s a given.

 

[Mr.Smile12]

Furthermore, this is a common ideal that most applicants imagine they would have once they are in medical school. And many of us in meded and on the forums have seen many face reality once med school starts or they fail exams and classes.

But you're going to have to decide at some point. I'm just bringing up questions I or my faculty would have looking at the description of your work. Unless you are applying to programs with a significant relationship with engineers, faculty at some schools (without those relationships) are not going to appreciate your prosthesis work. I know about orgs like Engineers Without Borders, but your app could hit a screener with little engineering background and a rubric that narrowly defines your work as "research" more than "service."

Read up on TxA&M ENMED and Carle Illinois. Compare with places like Rush or Loma Linda.

You need to show that you are capable of research, volunteering, clinical exposure, and student life with your application. You need to show at least enough to convince a group of professors you won't be one of those students who will fail out or who doesn't like medicine once reality hits.

 

[MrPuff]

@Mr.Smile12, Thank you for your advice. I had indeed been looking at the prosthesis work as service oriented. If I put those hours in the research "bucket" then that would give me around 1200 hours over three discrete projects. My service and clinical exposure would then only account for 300-400 each prior to the next application cycle. Does this seem a bit light for T-20 med schools?

I also appreciate your viewpoints on priorities changing once a person is in medical school. While I'm doing exceptionally well GPA-wise I do realize that I don't know what I don't know. The rigors of med school will certainly dictate the quantity of available time for other activities outside of the classroom.

 

[Mr.Smile12]

@Mr.Smile12, Thank you for your advice. I had indeed been looking at the prosthesis work as service oriented. If I put those hours in the research "bucket" then that would give me around 1200 hours over three discrete projects. My service and clinical exposure would then only account for 300-400 each prior to the next application cycle. Does this seem a bit light for T-20 med schools?

I also appreciate your viewpoints on priorities changing once a person is in medical school. While I'm doing exceptionally well GPA-wise I do realize that I don't know what I don't know. The rigors of med school will certainly dictate the quantity of available time for other activities outside of the classroom.

I remind you about the competency definition for service orientation:
Service Orientation: Demonstrates a desire to help others and sensitivity to others' needs and feelings; demonstrates a desire to alleviate others' distress; recognizes and acts on his/her responsibilities to society; locally, nationally, and globally.

It may not matter whether you label your prosthesis work as service-oriented; the committee can consider it differently at its discretion. For me, the prosthesis work is a natural extension of your academic competencies because this is more of an example of problem-solving (see all descriptions for thinking/reasoning competencies). Yes, you are extremely well-intentioned with the project and benefit those who really need these prostheses, but you are coming from a position of relative expertise rather than a position of cultural humility. Is this project enough to help you "stand out" for a T20? I'm not quite sure.

I don't think 300-400 hours is "light" for an applicant, even for the top-20 medical schools, but you have to show quality and meaningful reflection according to the definition noted above.

Network with current students at schools that are on your wishlist.

 

[GoSpursGo]

I will take a similar but slightly different approach to what @Mr.Smile12 is saying here in regards to your nonclinical volunteering service activity. To me (and I think many who would review your application), nonclinical volunteering is where we would like applicants to "get out of their comfort zone" and interact with people who are different from themselves. As a physician, you'll have to be able to relate to a wide variety of people from many walks of life, and so displaying a willingness to go out of your way to help people is a desirable quality in applicants.

In your example, you are interacting with and helping people who are different from you, but I think you'll run into criticism that you aren't "going out of your comfort zone" to do so. I think this activity would reasonably be considered similarly a music major who "volunteers" by giving music lessons to disadvantaged students, but in both situations you're really just using your professional talents in a different setting. Still admirable, still a worthy activity, but you likely still want some of those more "traditional" service volunteering activities.

 

[MrPuff]

Thank you @GoSpursGo and @Mr.Smile12 for your advice. I appreciate your guidance and will take it to heart.