Medical School Admissions: Special Circumstances

[Madame]

Hi there,

I am from Canada, Last year of Life Sciences program..would like to know how GPA works...we have different system for grades...is there any place I can calculate...or anyone can help. thanks

In the US, courses carry "units of credit". Most courses meet 3 hours per week for 14-15 weeks (the length of a semester) and carry 3 credits. Labs are usually an additional 1 credit per semester even if the lab itself is 2-3 hours in length. The typical student carries at least 12 credits and more often 15-17 credits per semester.

Grades are usually A, B, C, D, F with + and - grades at each letter (A-, B+, etc).
A = 4.0, B= 3.0, C= 2.0, D = 1.0 and F = 0. For a plus add 0.33, for a minus subtract 0.33.

Each grade is weighted according to the number of units of credit.
So:
Chemistry with Lab 4 credits, B = 12 grade points (4 x 3.0)
Philosophy 3 credits, C = 6 grade points (3 x 2)
Molecular biology 3 credits, A = 12 grade points
Physical education 1 credit A- = 3.67 grade points
Choir 1 credit A = 4.0 grade points

so this is 37.67 grade points divided by 12 credits =
grade point average (gpa) = 3.14

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[SpongeBobDrPants]

Hi! I'm scheduled to take the MCAT this May 31st, however, I don't feel that I would be able to get my "top score" by then so I am planning to reschedule it to either June 15th or July 13th.

I've heard about the importance of submitting AMCAS applications as early as possible. If I take the MCAT in July and I wait until I receive my scores in mid-August to submit my application, would that be "not early?" That is, would it put me behind all the other applications? On the other hand, I understand if I take the MCAT in June and submit my application in July then that would still be still considered early, but it would be more helpful for me to have more than an extra 2 weeks to prepare for the MCAT.

It would help if you could give me an insight on how "early" and "not-so-early" applications are processed in your school. Thanks! This is a wonderful thread!

August is a little bit late, especially considering that a ton of pre-meds submit in June or July. By applying in August, you probably won't get secondaries until early/mid-September. Those can take a lot of time to fill out. It also takes time to send letters. By that point, many schools have already started interviewing. Anything in June and July is pretty early.

 

[Madame]

i will be applying this year to med schools even though i am not the most competitive applicant by far.

my gpa is 3.0 (both science and overall), outstanding circumstances family and otherwise have managed to happen almost everyother semester, along with the fact that I teach and dance ballet professionally. This semester (which is about to finish for me) I am going to have an average of 3.75, and all my mcat practice tests are v14 bio10 phys8, its been pretty consistent these last few practice tests so I am expecting to score like that (i wish better). I have a publication and a lot of research experience and a lot of meaningful volunteer work, shadowing and good to excellent lors. I will be applying at DO schools but will an MD school look at me for a interview at least? (I am a florida resident and attend the Univ of Miami).

Madame is just back from the ballet and so she feels ready to answer your question.

If your overall gpa is 3.0 with a recent semester average of 3.75, then I have to think that you've had some semesters at <3.0. This is not good and can not be "made up" with a great MCAT. Your MCAT, in my mind, is a little weak in physical science but otherwise okay.

You have had "issues" almost every semester and you have been working & dancing. An adcom may wonder if these family problems will continue through medical school (or new ones will crop up) that will preclude med school success. An adcom may also wonder about your ability to prioritize and use your time wisely (if you were serious about being pre-med you might have cut back on other activities and focused on studying, the argument goes).

I think that getting an interview at a allopathic medical school with a 3.0 gpa and a 32 MCAT might be a long shot even with publications, research, volunteer experience and all the rest.

 

[Madame]

1. Do i need to retake One year of Physics, chemistry and Mathematics in addition to O-Chem and Biology for fulfilling my pre-reqs ? - Back in India for my bachelors in Mechanical Engineering, we just had 1 semester of Basic Chemistry and Physics ,which was quite involved.Now, comparing the syllabus of 2 semester Physics and Chemstry pre-req courses at my local Community college to the Physics i had covered back in India im pretty sure that Physics and Chemistry topics were covered in my high school syllabus itself and Phy & Chem at my college was beyond the scope of the syllabus of Pre-req courses listed by local CC. Also, during my Masters at UC most of the courses did have Pretty high level physics and Chemistry listed as their pre-reqs and i was able to achieve pretty decent grades mostly A's and few B's.The reason i ask this question is that i would rather prefer spending time learning something new and better than what i have studied throughout my previous education.

Most (all?) medical schools are going to want to see the pre-reqs taken at a US or Canadian school. Sorry you are faced with a do-over.

2. I have heard that AMCAS does not even accept Foreign transcripts, though i can enter my grades in the AMCAS application, Does that put me at any kind of disadvantage in front of adcoms to atleast get a chance to fill up my secondary's and explain them my grades acieved during my undergrad.

Check with AMCAS.

3. Do you see my undergraduate in India as a major disadvantage during my application process for med school ?

Not if you have a reasonable application with coursework done in the States.

4. What else would you suggest for me to look into to become a better Med school applicant and a future doctor ?

A strong personal statement explaining why you are making a change at this point in your career, solid experiences that show that you have tested your interest in medicine and are ready to take the plunge, and enough humililty to be ready to go down the ladder to the bottom and take direction from those who are younger than yourself (but who will outrank you) and the stamina to handle the workload as a student and resident (are you ready to work an 80 hour week including nights, weekends, and holidays with little say in the way your schedule is constructed?)

 

[Madame]

Are there any US schools with January and/or April entering classes like the offshore schools? My search hasn't come up with any. I'm an older non-trad, and the idea of a lost year at this point doesn't sit well.

I can't imagine any US school that would do this - or why. You could check the MSAR (Medical School Admission Requirements), the bible published by the AAMC (and well worth the purchase price if you intend to apply to allopathic schools in the US) and I'd be shocked if you found any schools with mid-year start dates.

 

[Madame]

I am coming to this from what I would classify as an extremely unique background. I went to college for one reason and one reason only, to play baseball. After my junior year(2002) I was drafted and left school early to pursue my life long dream as a professional baseball player. After 5 seasons I was ultimately unfulfilled and decided it was time to walk away(June 2006).

During my second professional season I began volunteering at local schools, talking at school assemblies, reading in class rooms, and participating in free baseball clinics on the weekends. Through this expirience I started to realize that I wanted to interact with people on a much more personal level than the celebrity of baseball could provide me.

Along with insights gained through volunteering, my interest in science started me on the path towards medicine. While in college I was an average student and took many of my prerequisites by virtue of interest in the subjects but put little to know emphasis on my grades because medical school was not even on my radar(my gpa was around a 2.9). As I continued my career I made an effort to interact with the team doctors and trainers as much as possible and by my last season I began shadowing the team doctor and observing the team orthopedic surgeon in the O.R.

Fast forward to present, I have just completed 3 semesters of course work during which I have earned roughly a 3.8 between Biochemistry I and II w/ lab, Organic II, Neurobiology, Physiology, Developmental Biology, Mind-Body Medicine and Science and Religion(obviously not a hard science course). I have finished my degree and even with my recent sucess my gpa would not be considered competitve. I will be taking the MCAT in June and realize that my score will be crucial.

So my questions are as such: What can an applicant such as myself do to get past the front door? I feel confident that my gpa can be explained, and capabilities proven by my recent academic success and hopefully strong MCAT score.
If I am able to "make the cut" and someone does review my entire application will it be taken into account that previous course work was completed at a time in my life when my priorities were elsewhere?
Lastly, I did biochemistry research this semester and will be presenting at the statewide meeting of the minds, I have also been selected to participate in a competitive research fellowship for Merck through my university this summer. I have shadowed, done volunteeting during my baseball career as well as currently mentoring through BBBS, all things that have reaffirmed my desire to be a doctor. My question is simple, is there anything more I can do? I am from the school of thought that if you really want something you do as much as possible to not let others decide your fate, with my past academic performance out of my control I want to be sure I am doing everything within my power to earn an interveiw at my schools of choice.

Thank you in adavance for both your time and advice, your charity is greatly appreciated.

Wow! I think that many adcom members would be intrigued. In your AMCAS application you should be sure to list Varsity Baseball and the hours per week you put into it among the list of "experiences" in college. You should also list baseball as employment for the years you were a professional player. Also list the shadowing experiences, and volunteer stuff you did during that time Your grades as a non-trad pre-med are good and your research seems interesting and interesting to you.

Focus on doing well (nothing less than 10) on the MCAT and you should be on the way to joining a list of professional athletes who went on to careers in medicine.

 

[Doodledog]

Wow! I think that many adcom members would be intrigued. In your AMCAS application you should be sure to list Varsity Baseball and the hours per week you put into it among the list of "experiences" in college. You should also list baseball as employment for the years you were a professional player. Also list the shadowing experiences, and volunteer stuff you did during that time Your grades as a non-trad pre-med are good and your research seems interesting and interesting to you.

I entirely agree with Madame that this story will get any Adcom's attention. In reviewing your file, I would go rapidly to the letters of recommendation to try to see if your story came across as "real." So, make sure you have a range of letters from the people you've been working with lately (none from a baseball coach however ) about your maturity, your commitment to medicine, etc.

In getting interviewed, don't be surprised if you get asked frequently about....baseball. Remember, we get intervieweees with experience in Guatemalan clinics every day, but former pro baseball players....not so often. Don't be upset, they aren't putting down your accomplishments to get to the interview, it's just natural to be curious and it's a good way for the interviewer to find out about you and learn something. So expect a lot of "trace your career from second base (or wherever) to here" type questions. If you ever hob-nobbed with famous players, you'll be asked about them too!

Finally, I wanted to use this question to comment a bit in general about "big time" college athletes and applications to med school. It is common to receive applications that tell us (sometimes gently, sometims whiny) about bad grades due to college athletics. It is common enough that in general, I don't give it much credence. That is, unless we're talking about someone who is "olympic caliber" (actually made the olympic team helps here ) or a starter on a Division I team. Even then, it won't help a lot unless you bring in the Olympic medal or the All-American status trophy. So, be cautious about using athletics as an excuse. It is important to participate in sports and I respect it, but you don't get to have bad grades while doing sports at the expense of applicants who worked harder on their coursework and didn't do sports.

 

[Doodledog]

Thank you both for the thoughtful response, that is exactly the kind of input I was looking for.



I couldn't agree more and I don't feel my athletic career is either an excuse or reason for my grades the first go round in school. Essentially it's a lesson in foresight, or there lack of... a lesson I'm hoping not to learn the hard way. When it's all said and done I have given all I have since committing to this new career path and will continue to do so, I am just happy to hear that it is reasonable to think that my application will atleast get a look.

On the topic of LOR's that attest to my character one of you mentioned that a letter from a baseball coach wouldn't be a good idea, I do have two solid letters lined up, one from the professor I am doing research for and one from a mentor that is the vice president of research for a major research hospital in my area(and the former dean of a medical school). In all honesty if it hadn't been mentioned I was going to use a baseball contact as one my third LOR, if this is not a good choice what other options should I consider?

I'm not a fan of letters from coaches, ministers, etc., although there are occasionally some exceptions. I've seen some letters from military commanders that I thought were powerful, and I suppose a letter from a US Senator wouldn't hurt. (j/k - I've never seen one like that...). Letters from a baseball contact probably won't be very influential, but might annoy some members of the committee and would likely overemphasize your sporting background. You don't need to do that - it'll be apparent anyway.

Only you can identify the best person to write an additional letter from among those who have taught you or you have worked with in medicine and science.

 

[Madame]

I entirely agree with Madame that this story will get any Adcom's attention. In reviewing your file, I would go rapidly to the letters of recommendation to try to see if your story came across as "real." So, make sure you have a range of letters from the people you've been working with lately (none from a baseball coach however ) about your maturity, your commitment to medicine, etc.

In getting interviewed, don't be surprised if you get asked frequently about....baseball. Remember, we get intervieweees with experience in Guatemalan clinics every day, but former pro baseball players....not so often. Don't be upset, they aren't putting down your accomplishments to get to the interview, it's just natural to be curious and it's a good way for the interviewer to find out about you and learn something. So expect a lot of "trace your career from second base (or wherever) to here" type questions. If you ever hob-nobbed with famous players, you'll be asked about them too!

Finally, I wanted to use this question to comment a bit in general about "big time" college athletes and applications to med school. It is common to receive applications that tell us (sometimes gently, sometims whiny) about bad grades due to college athletics. It is common enough that in general, I don't give it much credence. That is, unless we're talking about someone who is "olympic caliber" (actually made the olympic team helps here ) or a starter on a Division I team. Even then, it won't help a lot unless you bring in the Olympic medal or the All-American status trophy. So, be cautious about using athletics as an excuse. It is important to participate in sports and I respect it, but you don't get to have bad grades while doing sports at the expense of applicants who worked harder on their coursework and didn't do sports.

I agree with Tildy -- with the exception of the point about LORs. Coach letters can be very valuable. One of the best I ever read was from a professional athlete who had played a varsity sport with a coach who had a long tenure as well as having coached at the Olympic level. I knew of the coach and thought highly of him and I was very glad to have the opportunity to see a letter from him. What's more, he wrote a beautifully crafted letter that gave concrete examples of the applicant's leadership and ethics.

Some faculty are more "open" to varisity athletes than others. I know some that will take a varsity athlete with a 3.65 over a very similar non-athlete with a 3.75. That's not exactly "bad grades" but I think that it is recognizing that athletes bring additional skills and values to the table and often take a hit in gpa because of the hours required for the team.

 

[Madame]

Hi everyone, been viewing these forums for a while but i need some advice here now...

Im currently studying at University of Auckland, New Zealand, at the Bachelor of Health Sciences degree 1st year. This is needed to apply for Medicine after the first year if you have a B+ average to be considered for interview + a UMAT test. However i feel like i might have screwed up on some first tests (they were about 25% each...) due to a family loss and that I have been comforting my mother in first hand and not being able to study as expected.

If I dont get in after this year is there ANY possibilites for me to go overseas and apply WITHOUT reading another pre-year? Anywhere is good really, but i would prefer Australia mostly or maybe the US or Canada, but im not sure how the system works over there, e g can I take my grades from 1st year here and apply to other universities and sit some test?

The only thing im certain of is that i will never give up on this and will do whatever it takes.

Thank you for an awesome forum

Wow! This is the World Wide Web, no? In the US and Canada, one typically applies to medical school after completing 3 years of undergraduate classes at a US or Canadian college or univeristy (the fourth and final year is completed duirng the year in which one is going through the application and interview process).

There are a few universities that offer a 6 or 7 year program where appliants are admitted right out of high school to the undergraduate program and then to medical school after 2 or 3 years of undergraduate classes.

If you were to transfer to a school in the States, you would be applying for transfer to an undergraduate program. After completing all but the last year of that program you would apply for admission to a US medical school.

 

[Madame]

Hi, just wondering if any of my questions will be answered, if not that's okay. You can ignore the first one because i found some personal statements online and I think I know more or less what they should be about.

Secondly, How can I make myself stand out as an applicant if I have an average GPA and MCAT score? If I get many LORs from physicians I shadowed, like maybe 8 LOR's will this look impressive? Thanks.

Beatrix,
I'll look back at your previous questions. We have quite a backlog at the moment.

A well written personal statement (I'm glad you've found some resources to help with that) and well written secondary applications (when additional material, additional essays are requested) are always important. The secondary should be specfic to that school and mention specific reasons why you are most intersted in the school (even if the essay question doesn't specifically ask for the information it is often possible to work it in). Coming off as uninterested in the school is a good reason not to offer an interview.

Too many LORs will only wear out the good will of the committee member assigned to read your application. Most schools will tell you how many letters are needed and the sources of those letters. Professors from your academic institution are usually preferred over physicians who have seen you in a shadowing situation. Rarely do I ever see more than 5 letters. Eight from physicians whom you have shadowed is too many in my opinon!

 

[Madame]

Hi Mentors:
I've been clincially depressed since probably around 8th grade and since then everyday is a struggle. I'm applying to medical schools this summer, and have a GPA of 3.2/3.3. Should I even bother applying while I'm so depressed, or should I just ignore my problem and continue to apply as if I were a normal applicant. If yes, should I mention anything about this in my personal statement?

Let's rewrite your statement. "I've been chronically ill since the 8th grade and since then every day is a struggle.... Should I even bother applying while I'm so ill...? Should I mention anything about my illness in my personal statement?" I'm going to approach this from a medical model -- no different than if you'd told me you had diabetes or lupus.


You should talk with your health care provider about whether your health is strong enough right now for you to apply to medical school. If the stress would make your disease worse, it might be best to wait until you are stronger. You should also talk to a pre-med advisor about whether your application is strong enough to get you in at one of the schools of your choice (the 3.2-3.3 seems a bit low but my frame of reference is a top tier research school). If your application is not strong enough, again it might be best to wait and make what improvements you can before you launch into an application cycle.

Only you can decide whether to include information about your illness in your personal statement and how much information to include. You can write about "chronic illness" without being specific... you can make reference to health problems that have been resolved (if they have) without going into detail or you can go out on a limb and name your illness. Keep in mind though that even physicians and other adcom members harbor unspoken prejudices and the information you reveal about yourself may be held against you although that would never be the "official" reason for an admission decision.

Good luck!

 

[Madame]

Sorry to bother you....
I have several struggling questions with sincerity...

I am a graduating senior with overall gpa 3.4, Science 3.5+, BPMC gpa 3.5+, geeting mcat for may (current, practice mcat score is avg. 27, consistently 6-7 on verbal)

Institutional action in 2006?

To cut my story short, like every other student on my campus, i was trying to sell my old textbooks with materials to other students (materials i bought them from previous alumni ), but my materials, without my knowledge really~i swear to GOD~ accidentally overlapped with the materials kept by an academic program, thus, the program reported me to school, and no matter how i claimed myself about the innocence along with my student advocate's assiatnce and said it happened without my knowledge, i was charged of suspension for half year in 2006. All of this makes me postpone a year of graduation.


All the frustration and diffidence make me procrastinated and self-destructed on the studying...

Sorry for the long message i pour over you, but i am really desperately need some advice from the beneficent you.

This institutional action must be reported on the AMCAS. If I understand correctly, you bought (before taking the course) and then sold (after taking the course) materials that should not have been distributed outside of class (copies of quizes or exams, perhaps? It just isn't clear here what you are talking about). Anyway, this usually gets classified as cheating, a form of academic dishonesty; the excuse, "I didn't know that it was wrong" isn't going to cut it. I suspect that most med schools don't want to touch an applicant with a record of academic dishonesty.

Even without this fatal flaw, your projected verbal score on the MCAT would make me wonder if you shouldn't sit out this cycle and work on improving that aspect of your application.

You need to talk to a pre-med advisor at your school. Is there any precedent of a student in a situtation such as yours (you aren't the first one to get an institutional action of this sort) getting cut a break and if so, at what med schools?

Good luck -- you are in a very dire situation as far as medical school admissions go.

 

[Madame]

I guess I need to hear whether you have ever seen an applicant with such a terrible history get into med school?
I was the first in my family to go to college. Never had any guidance in that area. Went to 4 different colleges, withdrawing on several occasions. Finally got pregnant and decided to do something with myself. Went to a community college, became an RN while being a single mom, living in a city without any financial or social support. Ended up having about 212 credits with an overall gpa of 2.2. I know horrible isn't it? Anyway, since working as a nurse in psych, decided that I really wanted to go further (7years later) and help my own people. In child and adolescent psych there are few if any african american psychiatrist to relate to the over 80% population of african american children in most facilities that I have worked. Things that have been often categorized as traumatic or terrible in alot of cases were simply cultural, yet hard to explain. I am now getting my BSN, but looking at my history, I feel somewhat hopeless. Is there a chance or something that I can do or should I just become a psych nurse practitioner. Thank you.

I think that you need to do a few things:
1) Really explore why you want to be a child and adolescent psychiatrist and what you would hope to accomplish in that role. Are there other careers that would be as satisfying and let you serve that patient population? It seems like you've already been thinking about this.

2) Consider what it is going to take to reach your goal: more undergrad coursework (despite your 200+ credits you may not have the pre-reqs), four years of medical school including lots of topics and rotations seemingly unrelated to psychiatry, a transitional internship, psychiatric residency and child/adolescent psych fellowship. Are you ready to do that? Do you have the social support network you'll need to see you through? Are you ready to live like a student (in terms of lack of free time and lack of $)?

3) If you have one close by, consult with a good post-bach program. An advisor at such a program should be able to tell you what your chances are of being admitted given your record... also ask about the proportion that complete the program (many have a low threshold to admit applicants but then weed out the weakest so that only the strongest apply), and what proportion of those who apply get admitted to med school. Would it be full or part time? Could you work as a nurse and complete the program? etc.

Good luck!

 

[Madame]

As for the history on my camous, i WAS the first one who got this type of punishment according to my student advocate's (student "lawer") investigation.

I had hoped that your school could give you some help in terms of finding other pre-med students who have been the subject of Institutional Action and where they've managed to be accepted. Even if the "crime" is different, the school may be able to tell you which schools appear to be more open to applicants who have had Institutional Action.

Because it is the atmosphere that students exchange and sell their materials through individuals or agencies, and those materials were/are widely distributed around the campus; the materials i bought and sold were actually given out from classes by various professors. (There were a mass investigation and appeal from me at that time. )

I do not why it is a "dishonesty" because the program which has the materials that overlapped with mine were actually given by its program student members. I happened to be the NEW member After i bought these materials from a former student who was NOT the member of the program.

I signed the punishment contract because i confessed that i did not have the knowledge while i became the member of the program which had the simliar materials.

Am i not forgiveable?

I have been depressed and distressed by this for over 2 years.....

Put it on your AMCAS. Tell the whole story including the type of material (was it copyrighted or restricted in terms of re-distribution?) and your mistake in selling it. Be contrite. Be honest. Hope for the best.

 

[Madame]

I'm a freshman undergrad, and unfortunately i did not adjust very well to my first year in higher education. My first year is splotched with a pair of Cs and D with other A's and B's. I know I did not perform as well as I am capable of, and there were factors such as depression and family issues that played in as well. I hate to think I'm making excuses, and I was wondering if an admissions committee would even take it into consideration or should I just take it in stride and show a strong upward trend and hope for the best?

Don't let yourself off the hook with excuses. If you have depression, do what you need to do to regain your health. When you get back to classes, do your best and show that strong upward trend that those of us on the adcom like to see.

 

[Madame]

Hi Drs.,

Don't know if i'm submitting my question correctly, sorry if i am not. However, I had a question regarding the discussion of one's medical history either in the PS or in the interview. It has been something that has nagged me throughout college.

I have a pretty interesting situation. I have been the subject of some very involved medical procedures when I was younger and a parent has been for the majority of my life faced with many difficult medical problems. Needless to say this has been one of the thrusts for my passion to become a physician. My time as a patient, a patient's family member and my interactions with my physicians has shown me that I want to impact other's the same way my physicians impacted me any my family.

I also have had the chance to view physicians on the other side of the profession, in terms of how they interact when there are no patients around, the detail and dedication required of them and the immense knowledge they have of the chosen fields. Needless to say my experiences as a patient are the reason I want to become a doctor.

Is it appropriate to discuss these things? and to what extent? I would just like some clarification, thanks for your time.

You have had experiences as a patient and as a family member. This is often the first opportunity that someone has to think about careers in medicine. It is appropriate to say that you were inspired by the physicians who provided you with lifesaving care as a child (or whatever). The next step, and one that is key to a good application, is to gain some clinical experience as a care-provider and to see physicians caring for people other than yourself or your loved ones and to include this in yoru statement as well. You aren't applying to be a patient or merely going into medicine as hero-worship -- do you want to take on the daily tasks of a physician? There are many ways to have a positive impact on the lives of others and medicine is only one path. Be sure that you've had an opportunity to see the path from the physician's viewpoint before you leap.

 

[Madame]

Hello Adcoms- Thank you for being there.

If possible, I'd like to know your opinion on where I stand.

My general coursework and major is rather dismal; I spent two years in a Rabbinical Seminary where the coursework is obviously meaningless, then I transferred to a lowish-level university (FDU), where I took a host of business and finance courses, majoring in Individualized Studies. I decided I wanted to become a doctor, took my Gen Chems and Bios is a different low-level college, and then took my O-Chems and Physics in a City University (CUNY Brooklyn).

As far as stats though, cum GPA is 3.8+, and BCPM GPA is 4.0. For EC's, I have a year of volunteer EMT-B, a year of volunteer work in China, and several summers volunteer in Russia. My LOR's should be okay as well.

I take the MCAT in July; assuming I get a decent score (35ish), how do you think I stand?

Thank you so much; I hope you don't mind reading this through.

The adcom is going to wonder, has this guy decided he wants to do medicine or is he going to change his mind again? An MCAT of 35 is more than decent... I think that the bigger challenge for you will be assuring the adcom that you will fit in (you are non-traditional in every sense of the word) and that you will stay in medicine.

 

[Madame]

Thanks for your previous response, it was so good I wanted to ask one more question.

What do you think of applying to only reach and match schools the first time around and re-applying more broadly the next year as a re-applicant if I don't make it in? I'm a junior and hadn't intended on applying this year (i have a 3.4 GPA which I will improve upon my senior year). But, I received a 35T on my MCAT (13 P, 11V, 11B) and was advised by my boss (a physician) to have a go at it. My biggest fear is getting into a lower-tier school this year if I could have made it into a mid-tier school with a better application (i.e. a higher GPA or a publication that I'm currently writing up)... but that fear is negated if apply only to mid-tier schools the first time around. My recs and ECs are all pretty good, if it matters. Is there a stigma against re-applicants I should worry about? Would you advise improving my application and GPA before applying? Thanks!

I think that you need to consider three things:

The financial impact of applying twice (cost of applications runs about $100 per school plus the costs associated with interviews)

The time spent on the interview trail which will take time away from school or work.

The emotional toll of waiting for secondaries, waiting for interviews, waiting for offers, waiting on waitlists.

If you care about the tier, prepare the best application you can, even if it means sitting out a year. Unless you've got money to burn, nothing better to do with your time, and you really don't feel an emotional investment in the outcome of the admission cycle, I'd suggest waiting.

 

[Madame]

<snip>I still have a solid three more weeks of classes and would be starting med school in early August which doesn't give me much of a buffer. I have decided that I would really benefit from a year off- I would be able to recenter myself and focus on attacking the next four, tough years of school.

My question is in regards to how I should broach this subject with my medical school. I am absolutely set on going there whether it is this year or next and the last thing I want to do is make them question my committment to them. How would you suggest talking with them about this, who should I contact, is it even a possibility (their website said nothing about deferrals that I could find). I know I need to jump on this quickly since they would have to fill my spot for this year. <snip>

You can always ask if a deferral is possible. However, ask yourself, "is it just cold feet?" While saving a little money for a year might be nice, you are delaying the earning of an attending physicians salary by a year so the cost of your year off is substantial in terms of future earnings.

 

[Madame]

I was just wondering what my chance at getting into med school are and if my 1 year at community college will hurt me. I was in the engineering program ... I tranferred out, though, and attended a local community college for a year while I decided what I wanted to pursue as engineering just didn't interest me a great deal. I was thinking about teaching high school chemistry and biology, and because of this I took Orgo 1 and 2, Microbiology, Physics 2, and Gen. Bio. 1 at CC (recieved a 4.0 there). I am now at a private college, and have demonstrated that I can do well in upper level sciences by getting an A in Physical Chemistry.

Also, this summer I am volunteering in an ER and also doing research in Biochemistry with a professor through a competitive grant that I applied for. I have also been involved in various E.C's throughout college (Jazz Band, American Chemical Society, American Physics Society, etc.). I will be doing more shadowing and more EC's in the next year (I will be taking 5 years to graduate and am still recieiving my Secondary Education degree as a backup plan) and was wondering if I have a decent chance at admissions.

You are a good candidate for a personal statement that tells of your journey from engineering to "seeker" to education to medicine. You seem to have your ducks in a row for admission to allopathic or osteopathic medical school. Be sure to shadow and osteopath and get a letter of recommendation from one if you choose to go the osteopath route.

 

[Madame]

How important it is to have a recommendation from your undergraduate pre-med advisory committe when applying to med schools? I've been out of college for 3 years now and I was unaware of the lengthy and detailed process it takes to receive this from my undergraduate school. There most likely won't be enough time for me to go through this process in time to complete my applications. Will med schools frown upon you if you don't have this?

If your school is "well known" for producing med school applicants then it is likely that the med schools are acquainted with and respect the opinions of the pre-med advisory commitee at your school. If this is the case, then yes, not having a pre-med advisory committee letter will be a red flag.

 

[AJVic123]

For the AMCAS application, Should I include the researcher I will be working with or just the research topic? Should my approach change for the TMDSAS application?

Anyone else have some advice on TMDSAS for this poster??

Here's a linke to the Texas application FAQ: TMDSAS FAQ

 

[Madame]

I am a student who considers applying for medical school this June. My GPA is 3.75. My major is English. I have taken the MCAT once, but scored a 29 (PS: 12; Bio: 9: VR: 8). I plan to retake the MCAT on July 13th. I have a few questions:

1. English is not my first language, but I chose it as my major. Given my circumstance, how will the admission committee think about my low VR score for the MCAT?

They may interprete this to mean that you don't read very quickly and thus lost points due to a lack of speed or perhaps that your coursework focused more on writing or on reading nineteenth century British novels or something very different than the types of passages one reads for the MCAT. The next stop would be to look at your transcript and to see if you had a LOR from an English professor or someone who might be able to address your ability to interprete what you read.

2. The medical schools will receive my second MCAT score around August 15th. Will that be too late for the rolling admission?

Rolling admission just means that decisions are made just a few weeks after the interview. August 15 arrival of your MCAT scores means that your file will be read in August or later. This could mean that you will be read right away and interviewed in September or it could mean that you end up at the bottom of a stack of hundreds of applications that arrived in July.

3. Would you recommend me to fill out the primary application and submit it in June without my second MCAT score?

If you check the box indicating that you are retaking the MCAT, then the schools will hold off reviewing your application until that second MCAT arrives.

4. When I choose medical schools to apply to, should I apply mostly to the schools with an average MCAT score close to 29?

That is a wise move if your gpa is about average for those schools. If your gpa is less than the average for the school, you may be at a disadvantage.

5. When AMCAS calculates my GPA for the primary application, will they count the classes I took in a community college when I was in high school?

Thank you very much for your help!

Yes.

 

[Doodledog]

How would an adcom approach age, if at all, in an application? I just turned 18 years old and am applying this cycle. I've had a lot of people tell me not to bring up my age anywhere in my application unless an adcom brings it up in my interview. Is that good advice?

Also here are some of my stats to put things in perspective:

MCAT: 32P (10V, 12P, 10B)
Cum GPA: 3.76
BCPM GPA: 3.76

Some volunteering in hospital (about 40-50 hours so far) and shadowing a radiologist.
Other volunteer experiences include tutoring physics, tutoring elementary and middle school kids, and monitoring a university computer lab.

I'm just worried that while my stats are somewhat ok, age will be quite an issue I'll have to deal with. I don't feel 18, but I forget that most people are 21-22 when they start applying to med school.

I have seen the thread on pre-allo and the comments posted and wish to reenter this thread to make a brief comment here. It is clear you have decided to apply this cycle and that is your choice. I doubt you will have trouble being accepted but it depends to a non-trivial degree on how you present yourself in the essays and interviews.

However, AFTER you are accepted, please consider taking the 5 year plan and spending an additional year in medical school doing research and/or getting an additional degree (MPH/MBA/etc). Given your background, this might be a useful thing to do and enhance your career while allowing you to meet your goal of starting medical school as soon as possible. Please seek out mentors in your med school who can help you plan a course that meets your needs but think broadly of the possibilities - you have many great options.

Good luck and congrats on all you've accomplished so far. By the way, for what it's worth, I graduated from medical school (in the United States) when I was 24 yrs old and did not think I was a worse physician because of it.

 

[Madame]

Hi,

I’m a postbacc at Columbia, just wondering (1) where to apply and (2) if I have a child, will it hurt me to talk about this in my personal statement? Here is some info:

4.1 postbacc gpa (most of my med school prereq’s were taken here), but 3.5 undergrad gpa from an average school (including several science/math B+’s, one science C+ and one science UW counting as an F)
41T mcat (15VR, 14PS, 12BS)
150 hospital volunteer hours
3-4 months clinical research, including 1 publication
A couple semesters of undergrad non-medical international research/volunteering
Nothing spectacular career-wise in the year and a half between undergrad and postbacc

I am weak on lab research, though this summer I’m working part time in a lab, and I may be able to find a lab research position for the fall. Still, I realize it is a little late to get started on this type of thing. So I am not sure what my chances are overall. I am thinking of applying to: Albert Einstein, Boston University, Case Western, Chicago (Pritzker), Cornell, Columbia, Duke, Harvard, Johns Hopkins, Mayo, Mt Sinai, Northwestern, NYU, Stanford, SUNY Downstate, SUNY Stonybrook, UMDNJ, and WashU

Am I including too many reach schools? Are there some schools listed above that I just have no real shot at, such that I shouldn’t apply (because I have so little research experience, etc)? Should I apply to more “safe” schools—and if so, what would that mean—other New York state schools (I’m a NY resident)? My personal statement is not spectacular, if this helps answer any of these questions.

Second, as I said, is it potentially detrimental to talk about having a child in my personal statement and/or secondaries? I have done so, because this has been such a huge part of my experience as a student, and as a human. But might it hurt my chances? Or are most medical schools fairly accepting of women with children pursuing a medical career?

Thanks.

You have an extraordinary MCAT, a very good post-bac gpa and several months of clinical research with a publication. I think that if you interview well and your application is well written, you should have a good shot at at least a few schools on your list.

The relevance of your child to your suitability as a medical student or your career as a physician is .... what? I hate to say it, but I would worry that some adcom members would have unspoken reservations about admitting someone who has responsibilities for a small child (and this goes double if you are a single parent). I would recommend that you focus your personal statement on why you want to be a physician and how you have tested this interest in a career in medicine. You might also want to talk with your advisor at Columbia and determine whether or not your child will be mentioned in your LOR (Columbia tends to send very thorough biographies of their students). So, your child may be mentioned in your application (and perhaps in the context of pointing out how you have managed to do well at Columbia while parenting) even if you don't include that information in your personal statement.

 

[Madame]

Two quick questions: My first year of school, some 6 years ago, I took three quarters of Claculus, letter grades as follows: A, C, F. As you can see , as the year went on I was less and less interested in school. I took a two year break from school, and upon my return my gpa increased drastically each year: 3.5, 3.8, 3.8. I atribute my first year woes to a lack of maturity. How will the F in Calc. III affect my application?
Secondly, I am now graduated and am looking for a full time job in Microbiology. Unfortunately, there aren't many opportunities close by. Does it matter to a school if I am working in a science related field or some other field(ie business) during my year off?

In your Personal Statement you need to explain your journey to med school application and that should include some explanation of your freshman year as it is quite obvious that something happened. You will also be asked to tell the adcom what you did in the two years "off".

The F in Calculus will hurt your gpa a little bit and it could be a red flag but if it is just one terrible grade you could be forgiven.

You need not work in a science related field...

Good luck with the job hunt!

 

[Madame]

Hi, I have a bit of an odd situation. I generally start my Pre-Med courses very focused, but somewhere in the middle of the semester, I lose focus and end up getting a C. Of course, it's a bit more than that. I have Ulcerative Colitis and the stress of the courses induces severe flare-ups. It becomes hard for me to concentrate on my courses when I'm in so much physical pain. As a result of this disease, I'd like nothing more than to help others who have it and other diseases of the GI tract. My goal is to become a Pediatric Gastroenterologist. Anyway, back to the stats, I've gotten C's in both of my General Bio courses, but A's in their labs. C's in General chemistry, B in O.Chem I, D+ in O.Chem II (I'm definitely re-taking it), B's in Physics, C in molecular and B in biochem. As for Math, well I'm a math major so I've gotten A's in Calc I and Calc II and plan on continuing that trend throughout the rest the math courses I have left. I haven't taken the mcats yet. As far as experience goes, I've volunteered for a year and am working in a pharmaceutical company, but that's pretty much it in terms of the medical field. However, I've done research projects in math, have been a tutor for about two years and am president of the math club. Obviously I need more ECs. My BCPM and cumulative GPA are both at a 3.0. I already have two professors that I'm sure will write excellent letters of recommendations. So this leads me to three questions:
1. If I get a stellar MCAT score, exemplary LORs, have an amazing personal statement and do more ECs, do I have any chance in getting in without doing an SMP or retaking most of the pre-reqs?
2. Should I get a masters in Biomathematics after I graduate college? Would that help in any way? Or would I be better off with an MMS or a masters in Biology?
3. I've heard that alot of med schools want you to apply within 5 years after taking the pre-reqs. If I took general chemistry my freshman year and plan on applying 6 years after, would I need to retake it? Or is it 5 years after you graduate? I'm so confused on that.

Thank you so much for answering my questions!

I admire your desire to care for children who suffer from gastrointestinal disorders but it is a bit concerning to see someone in pre-med deciding so early in the process on a subspecialty within the field of medicine.

Math appears to be your strong suit and perhaps you could help children (and others) using that math talent in biomedical research. A MS degree in biostatistics could open doors in that field and would also come in handy if you continued down the road to medical school.

Your grades in Biology and Chemistry are a grave concern. Even the Bs in Physics are a concern as this is all pointing toward a BCPM gpa of <3.0. Perhaps quite a few math courses can pull up that gpa but the poor showing in so many pre-requisitites is going to hurt. Osteopathic schools will use the new grade if you choose to retake but allopathic medical schools will use both grades in determining your gpa and this means it is nearly impossible to battle back from a bunch of Cs and Ds.

Finally, not not of least importance, is your physical health. The stress of medical school could cause further exacerbation. It is essential to get your disease under control. No med school wants a student who is going to repeat a year or flunk out due to an uncontrolled chronic condition. Your first priority should be your own health.

Good luck.

 

[VandySurgeon]

Hello all. I am a general surgery intern that was on the admissions committee for a public medical school. I'm here to contribute my $.02, and help in any way I can. Ask away.

 

[Doodledog]

Hi All,

I've done a lot of volunteering in non-clinical and non-medical setting - all in things I am very passionate about (mainly environmental). I'm applying for 08 and a bit worried about filling in the clinical/patient/medical side of my experiences... as I currently have pretty much zip (except I did move and transfer schools to take care of my girlfriend while she went through chemo and radiation for Hodgkin's - now 2 years cancer free - and this did motivate me towards medicine).

I have the opportunity to volunteer and become certified as a Rape Crisis Counselor (and I'm a male!) ... I am interested in doing this volunteer work and would be committed for a year... the problem is it wouldn't be direct "clinical/patient" experience, but for the Crisis Center's outreach/edu program (I'd also be doing some volunteer GIS work for them too). So while I wanted to do clinical type work through this, it turned out to be a different opportunity than I intended.

At the same time, I have a few other opportunities in more
clinical/medical setting, such as volunteering at a hospital, volunteer for research trial where I'll get trained in phlebotomy etc...

They aren't mutually exclusive, but if I gave up the Rape Crisis opportunity, I feel that I would have more time to dedicate to patient/clinical volunteer work...

Question: At this point in apps, is it better to go straight for more clinical/medical experience or will the Rape Crisis Counselor training and volunteering make me stand out more?

Put yourself in the shoes of an adcom. Which would you find more unique in an applicant? Would you rather talk about a guys experience drawing blood or working in a rape crisis center? Not tough to figure out!

So, as long as you have reasonable shadowing so as to convince the adcom that you know what medicine is about, do the rape crisis center. You and your application will be the better for it.

Remember though, volunteering isn't just about "standing out" to an adcom, it's about gaining experiences you can talk about, that provide you with a more mature and diverse view of society, and allowing you to make a contribution. Adcoms are looking for these as well as uniqueness.

 

[Doodledog]

Hi, I have a question about checking the economically disadvantaged status on the application. I have looked at the questions that they provide and whereas my family's low income fits the requirements, and I have had a job since 16y.o., my income has not always gone to support my family. When I was in high school there was a period of time in which both of my parents were unemployed, received unemployment aid from the government, and I contributed a bit of money to help out, but once I entered college my income mostly went toward paying for books and my student contribution in my financial aid package. My job is only part time. And I do not live in a medically underserved area. I have felt disadvantaged at times, I could never afford tutoring, I could not attend a lot of TA and professor office hours because I had to go to work, I have few volunteer hours because I always tried to get paid internships, and in general I spent less time on my classes than classmates who could afford not to work at all during the school year. However, I know that a lot of other students have work study jobs as well, and I know that my life could be a lot worse. I feel blessed in many ways, my family has always treated me well, and I have had many opportunities in my state to get research and clinical experience. Should I check the disadvantaged box? I do not want to seem like I am seeking special treatment , and I am not sure if my reasons for feeling disadvantaged are trivial. Thank you so much for your time!

There's no absolute answer to this as adcoms would have extremely variable responses to this question and your choice in this. It wouldn't much affect how I look at your application whatever decision you make. Others might want to ask you about it at an interview and you might or might not wish to handle those type of questions. Do what you are comfortable with. If in doubt, I would generally suggest not marking it, but again, I don't feel strongly about it.

 

[All4MyDaughter]

Welcome to the new Medical School Admissions: Special Circumstances Thread.

What is the purpose of this thread?

The sole purpose of this thread is to help students answer the following question: How can I explain "X" that happened in my life on my application? In this thread our mentors can help you figure out how to address in your application events that may have caused adversity in your life or challenges that you may have overcome.

From this point forward, this will be the only topic addressed in this thread.

Please do not post "what are my chances" threads or your entire life story.
Brevity is your friend. Your post is much more likely to be answered if your question is brief and to the point.

Inappropriate posts WILL be deleted or moved.
Thank you for your cooperation.


Who will be answering my question?
Questions in this thread will be answered by members of medical school admissions committees (students, faculty and staff) and by medical students, residents or physicians who may share their experiences with the admissions process. You may review the credentials of any mentor by viewing their "Welcome" post.



Do NOT delete this post.

 

[Doodledog]

I just found out/recalled/remembered that i had a couple classes i took in 1998 (when I was 13 years old) at a community college over the summer between middle school and high school. Unfortunately, I got 2 D's and a C.

They were all math classes on semester hours while my university is on the quarter system, and basically it demolishes my BCPM gpa and cumulative if counted. BCPM 3.7 -> 3.36 and a 3.47 cumulative to a 3.2

I was wondering if AMCAS does in fact calculate these into my GPA. If so, is there anyway that I could address this issue? My biggest fear is that they will not reach human eyes. I'm just shocked and depressed that something that I did when I was 13 might affect if I get into med school.

Thanks.

I'm certain that the best source of answers about AMCAS policies would be AMCAS, so I suggest you contact them. With regard to your application, I can only speak for one school, not 125 of them, but we have human eyes read every application.

 

[Professor Plum]

Hello everyone,

I am about halfway finished with my M.D./Ph.D. I will be helping answer questions from a student's perspective. Please note that I am NOT on an adcomm, and I will have to defer such questions to those who are.

Regards,
PP

 

[Doodledog]

How do med school adcoms ultimately decide to whom to offer admission? How do adcoms keep track of all the applicants? Is a scoring system used to rank applicants? Where does the interview fit in the decision - is a lot of weight given to the interview - i.e., once you have been invited for interview, is your prior "rank score" of less importance, or is the interview just one more factor that may or may not overcome the scoring rank previously assigned to a particular applicant? Or as some suggest, is the interview more of a public relations ploy to sell the school, to leave applicants with a warm fuzzy feeling?

There are 125 different answers to this question of course. Most generally, schools will come up with some system of combining the data they used to decide about whether to offer an interview with how the interview went to make a final ranking of applicants. This ranking may be separated by in vs out of state at some schools. It is then common that human eyes, namely a dean or in other cases a small committee, will look at those near the top of the list and make some decisions which may not be strictly based on a total number score. Again, who, how and when this is done is too variable to generalize.

I can only speak for my school, not the other 124 or so schools, but I am certain that the interview is very important at our school. We spend huge amount of effort on this aspect and we wouldn't need to do this if it was just a "public relations ploy." It would be wrong to assume that the table is leveled going into an interview (although this might be true at some schools, I don't know), but the interview can make a huge positive or negative difference.

I can promise you that if a student with a 42 MCAT and 4.0 GPA behaves like a jerk at the interview, they won't get accepted. Don't believe me? Try it!

In my experience, applicants will often have spend hundreds or thousands of hours preparing for the MCAT and working on their essays. They will spend 2 hours at most practicing for their interview and it shows. Often they'll spend much more time figuring out what to wear to the interview that thinking about what they'll say and practicing it. My suggestion is that before interviewing all applicants practice with someone who is experienced at interviewing people for a job, any job. Have them critically evaluate your body language as well as your answers. Take criticism seriously, it is common to believe that you interview much better than you actually do.

 

[Miss Scarlett]

Hi - I am a medical student from a non-traditional background. I am willing to answer some of the more basic questions about applying to medical school.

 

[Professor Plum]

How do med school adcoms ultimately decide to whom to offer admission? How do adcoms keep track of all the applicants? Is a scoring system used to rank applicants? Where does the interview fit in the decision - is a lot of weight given to the interview - i.e., once you have been invited for interview, is your prior "rank score" of less importance, or is the interview just one more factor that may or may not overcome the scoring rank previously assigned to a particular applicant? Or as some suggest, is the interview more of a public relations ploy to sell the school, to leave applicants with a warm fuzzy feeling?

I'm at a different school than Tildy, and at my school the interview is VERY important. Once you've been invited, the interview becomes a huge determinant in whether you'll get in here. Everyone who gets interviewed has academic credentials that are good enough to get in, or they wouldn't get invited. If the interviewers don't feel like you fit with the program, or if the students you meet think you're a jerk, you won't get in, no matter how great you look on paper. School fit is kind of a subjective thing. But basically, the best advice I can give you is don't be a butt when you go on your interviews. Presumably, you are considering attending my school, so act like you're interested and ask thoughtful questions. Be considerate to everyone you meet. I know at least one person didn't get in because they were rude to one of the admissions secretaries. Bad move. You better believe the Dean of Admissions heard all about it. It's a small world, and everyone knows everyone. Like Tildy said, if you think your interview performance can't keep you out out of med school, you could be in for a very unpleasant surprise.

 

[Doodledog]

Dear Mentors,

I have a question regarding interviews. I am applying for the 2008 cycle and will be interviewing in the upcoming year. However, I will be in rural Ghana working with a health and education nonprofit for the year. I am planning to return to the States for about 3 weeks in order to interview. I will be applying to many of the top 20 MD research schools. So my questions:

1. How flexible will schools be in helping me to schedule interviews appropriately?
2. When should I come back? November/early December or February (I have to be in Ghana during January)?

I realize I will have to turn down some interviews based on my scheduling constraints...

Thanks for all advice!

Sarah

Some schools will be flexible, others won't. The earlier you apply and the stronger your application, the more likely you can make it work out. I would aim to come back before the end of the year (eg. November) if you have submitted an early application. I suggest sending an email or other note with your application to the schools or otherwise calling them to let them know of your situation. Only you can decide if any given school is worth an extra trip to the US.

 

[Doodledog]

Hello everyone.
I have a question regarding the grading system in my undergraduate institution and how it is viewed by adcoms in terms of GPA. I attended an engineering school, majoring in Biotechnology from 98-02. They utilized a grading system of A, B, C, fail and quarter terms rather than semesters . We did not receive (+) or (-) with our grades and as a result my science GPA and overall GPA's are around 3.1. Most of my grades are A's and B's, but I received a few C's (Physics 1 and 3 and Calculus 2 and 3) which drastically lowered my GPA. I am entering a post-bac program in the spring due to the length of time since I have completed the prereqs, but even if I receive a 4.0, my GPA will not increase much due to number of science classes I have already completed. Should I try to explain that my GPA is low partially because of the grading system or is this already taken into consideration during the review process? Also, I recently received a BS in Nursing from Columbia Univeristy '06 (GPA 3.5), but during this program my passion to become a physician only grew stronger. I have heard that being a nurse can hurt your chances of being admitted into medical school. Is this true and if so, could you give me some guidance as to how I can improve my chances. Thank you in advance for any advice.

As far as grades go, your whole academic record will be looked at and evaluated. What I wanted to comment upon was the issue of nurses going to medical school. Although there are some adcom members who are not happy with this transition as they are concerned about the loss of a needed nurse, for the most part, the reception to nurses applying is very good. You need to be very clear about why you changed your mind. Don't put down nursing (you wouldn't) but make it clear that the medical model and role of a physician is how YOU see yourself and this didn't become clear.

By the way in my experience, nurses usually do very well in medical school.

 

[Professor Plum]

Miss Scarlet and Professor Plum?! I haven't been to this forum in awhile and I olove it...loved the game "Clue"!

I have already graduated and am now attending summer school to retake a pre-req and then to take the second half of the pre-req for the first time. I have volunteer clinical work as well volunteering for a doctor as a research assistant. Once I finish summer school I really need to get a job to earn money for applications and attending med school if I'm fortunate enough to get in. Should I take any job that pays or should I hold out for something that looks better. If I can't get any sort of related job what else should I do to enhance my application or to make myself stand out. I'm working on one project that should stand out but I'm not really sure how it will turn out. Do you have any suggestions of where i can find health related paid jobs?

I suggest that you visit the career center at your school. They should be able to help you find jobs that fit with your background and interest.

 

[Professor Plum]

Hello,
I got my undergrad degree at a competitive state school, but now I am working on my pre-med pre-reqs at a smaller school ( University of Houston-Downtown) that is not as well known. Will this reflect poorly on me with med. school admissions? I am here for financial and personal reasons, is this something I should include in my P.S. or should I just wait until the interviewing process?
I just began my prereqs. this summer so I do not want to waste my time and money at this particular school if it will limit my chances of acceptance later. But then again, this school is pretty much my only option. I do not have a car and it is closer via bicycle and light rail transit than the other University of Houston. The 2 are not a part of the same system, by the way.
Thanks!

As long as the school you are attending is accredited, I think you should be fine. Focus on earning high grades and learning as much as you can so that you will be prepared to take the MCAT. If you have an excellent GPA and MCAT score, that will take you far in this process.

 

[Professor Plum]

Hi,

I have a 3.4 GPA from UCI in BioSci... Last two years avg gpa ~ 3.75

1st attempt MCAT: 29S (11,9,9)
2nd attempt MCAT: 26S (10, 8, 8)

Extensive research, extensive clinical, great EC, great LOR

I was averaging about mid 30s on the diags before my second attempt. Basically, I do not even know what happened. I tried hard and was ready. How do I address this? Should I contact schools to discuss this or am I automatically disregarded as a possible applicant because I did worse the 2nd time. I would think they would take the higher of the two, but thats just me. Any guidance is greatly appreciated.

You should go talk to your premedical advisor. I'm sorry, but I don't know what to tell you.

 

[Doodledog]

My sophomore year of college I began doing research in a very prestigious lab on campus (highest paid science PI on campus, lots of grants/awards/etc). I did not work for pay or credit, simply to try out research. I remained in the lab for the spring semester, working about 15 hours/week. I primarily worked with a post-doc.
At the end of the 2nd semester, I realized I wanted to do more medically-applicable research. I talked to the PI and told her my decision. One week later I discussed late adding the course for credit (the PI and I had discussed this earlier and she had said 'yes'), and was told "you better add it as pass/fail because I can't give you an A for this." To sum it up as quickly as possible: I was shocked. I did not add for credit. The situation deteriorated. Since, I have been made aware of several very similar situations with this PI and other undergrads in which the PI has refused to write letters and in some cases written very negative letters.

Now the question: Some schools (Harvard) require a letter from all PI's. I have since done research in 2 other labs and have wonderful recs from both (included with my packet of primary app letters). Do I include this research on AMCAS? Do I track down my post-doc and ask him for a letter? Do I ignore the requirement all together for an LOR? Are there other schools that require LOR's from all research experiences?
I will attempt to schedule and appointment with the PI to see discuss the situation, although I am not hopeful.

Sorry this is so long. Thanks for any and all help.

This is a difficult situation, I will try to break it down and give a few suggestions. I would work under two potentially conflicting guidelines here. First, I would not recommend lying or hiding information that a school specifically asks for. Several reasons for this, not the least of which is the possibility of discovery. I recognize that in the case of non-trads, some of the info asked may be unreasonable. Who can track down a PI from 10 years ago, etc? Some reasonable judgment can be used here. However, in the case of a clearly relevant, recent experience that you are specifically asked about then you must deal with it.

The second princlple is that you should not try to obtain a letter from anyone who will, for near certainty, write specific hostile statements about you. This principle is true at any level, including faculty promotions (one of my other lives is reviewing these letters). You absolutely should not try to talk a faculty that was hostile to you into writing a letter.

You do not need to include this experience on your AMCAS. The situation with any school that wants a letter from every PI is different. I've never heard of this so I doubt it's widespread, but I can't speak for multiple schools. The best resolution to this is to write H or any other school that needs this information a letter and briefly explain the situation to them. I have no idea how H will respond. However, I do know that I read applications all the time in which someone explains something like this that has occurred to them. This does not stop us from offering them an interview

If everything else in your application is positive including the other letters, then the fact you had a bad experience in one setting will not block your application. It may strengthen it as it will give you a chance during the interview to answer the ever-popular "explain a difficult situation you were in and how you resolved it" question.

Good luck!

 

[Doodledog]

Is it possible to get advice on how to write the best PSE possible? Any particular things I should mention? Also, I have one really bad year on my transcript (I was diagnosed with a serious medical condition that year), should I mention it on my PSE so as to explain the really bad year?
Overall, my GPA is 3.53, but my annual GPA (GPA for this year) is 3.73. Before the bad year my GPA was much higher: 3.61...
The diagnosis greatly affected my concentration and ability to work well...so should I mention it and also submit a medical note for verification?

Thanks,

scienceisbeauty

Hi - there is no general response that can be given to whether to discuss a specific medical reason for poor school performance. Only you can decide if this is information that you wish to share and have known. You are not obligated to do so and if you mention it, then it becomes known to the adcom and it may be discussed during your interview. There is no reason to submit a medical note unless you wish to.

 

[Doodledog]

I apologize for the length of this post, and thank anyone in advance for a reply. I am curious as to how much information regarding certain physical/mental health circumstances I should disclose to medical schools (if any at all) and what constitutes a grade that requires an explanation (although there is never really an excuse per se).
Basic background information:

I attended Colorado College as a freshman.
During that year I battled anorexia, was extremely unhappy, and consequently had a ravaged immune system (my own fault, I admit). I was constantly ill and thus missed a LOT of class. Colorado College operates on the block plan, 1 class every 3.5 weeks from 9-noon M-F, so missing about a week of any given class tends to have dire consequences for one's performance and grade. I was particularly ill when taking general chemistry 1 w/ lab and received a B- (I did not perform as well as I could/should have and also received a B- instead of a B because of the attendance policy). This also happened in another course (went from A- to B+ simply because of attendance policy) and I ended up with a 3.56 gpa for the year. I went home one block early (I still had plenty of credits each semester to be considered a full time student and the semester was not considered incomplete) due to seriously deteriorating health. I then transferred back to the University of Oklahoma in my hometown, partially due to the enticing national merit scholarship package, but largely to study with my french horn professor from high school and attend their excellent school of music (in addition to the pursuit of my zoology degree). My current gpa at OU (after 1 year taking several credit hours) is a 3.9 and my combined gpa is around 3.75 and climbing. I received an A in gen chem 2 at OU. Do I need to explain the B- from Colorado College, and could that alone ruin my chances of admission to top-tier schools assuming my gpa is ultimately somewhere a little above 3.8 (I have 3 more years due to the initial pursuit of 2 degrees so I could easily get a 3.8 and potentially a 3.9)? For these purposes, and because I am on a very good track here at OU, assume my MCAT, ECs, research experience, LORs, etc are competitive. How much information regarding my mental/physical health problems should I disclose? I fear that mentioning my eating disorder (from which I have fully recovered) would lead adcoms to believe that I will starve myself when the pressure gets high in medical school, and that mention of my frequent illness sounds as though I am making excuses for myself, which I do not want to do, but I also don't want that B- to become a fatal flaw in what I feel will otherwise be a strong application.

There is no general answer to what medical information should be disclosed on an application or what grade "requires" an explanation. Only you can decide if you are comfortable with this information being known to the adcom. You can more generally indicate that you had a health problem from which you have recovered if you wish. If a single B- was a fatal flaw (or even a C) there would be many fewer students in medical school. My general recommendation is to be very cautious about providing information about eating disorders and mental health issues on an application unless you feel very comfortable about discussing this aspect of your life.

 

[Doodledog]

Does a history of institutional or legal action on my record virtually assure me of not being accepted? How should I handle this? Ignore it or write about it in my essays?

This is a common question and there is no single or simple answer. First of all, I strongly recommend being entirely honest about the situation and following whatever AMCAS or other rules are in effect about reporting the event. But, the real question is, "How will it be viewed by adcoms and how should it be handled on the application"?

First of all, institutional action related to being caught underage with alcohol in a dorm or a related violation is common. Unless there were multiple violations or other factors, I wouldn’t make a big deal out of it on the application. More serious violations of this sort (DUI) absolutely require an explanation. These may or may not stop you from being accepted. However, if one is forthright about it, prepared to explain in very contrite terms how you’ve changed, then it is not an absolute obstacle to admission. You must be prepared to discuss it in your essay and interviews.

A more difficult circumstance is anything related to cheating or academic honor code violations. These can certainly lead to your application being rejected outright related to this event. In general, it would be best to be very, very upfront about this. Send a special letter to each school to which you've applied explaining the entire situation. Have an extra letter sent to schools from a faculty member that addresses what happened or make sure that your letters of recommendation address the situation and explain how you’ve changed and matured. If you can get a letter from a dean or similar high ranking individual indicating that you’ve matured, etc, it is best. There may still be some schools that will not admit you with this on your record. But some will, if you can demonstrate your commitment to change and how distraught you are that this occurred. Under no circumstance ever should you attempt to indicate that you were maltreated in the evaluation of the event. Do not indicate that it wasn't fair that others did the same thing and weren’t caught, punished, etc. It is likely that you won’t be admitted immediately out of undergrad with this on your record, but may need to show maturity by virtue of time spent in the workforce. It does not mean you can not ever get into a US medical school.

The most challenging situation is one in which you have multiple violations of any sort (even dorm alcohol violations) on your record. This would be a huge red flag almost anywhere. In this case, you’ll almost certainly need to spend years after your undergraduate time working and demonstrating that you are a completely different person than the one who violated rules and was caught multiple times.

 

[Doodledog]

Hi Adcoms,

I've posted this before, but have another question pertaining to the same situation. I'm gearing up to apply this coming season and was hoping you could give me advice. I graduated from princeton with a pretty dismal 2.98 GPA. I had a rough time my first year and a half of undergrad while dealing with coming out. This year I'm taking some graduate bio courses (many of which are actually first year med school courses) and will probably finish out the year with a 3.5 and I just started a job as a research assistant that I will continue next year while applying. My last MCAT score was a 36Q (12s across the board), i worked for 4 years as a nurse assistant and I've done research in multiple labs around the country since high school. i'm also mexican american and spanish was my first language, for whatever that's worth.

Though I've gotten mixed opinions about whether or not to discuss this in my application because of risking offending people, I've decided I need to talk about it. I'm definitely all about honesty and I don't see how I could ever expect patients to be honest about their lives for the sake of proper treatment without me being able to be open as well. I'm the first to admit that I didn't work hard enough and that's why I ended up with such bad grades, but I also want to convey that I wasn't out boozing and goofing off 7 days a week. So I was wondering about how you think I should best address the situation. I'm more confused about where to include the explanation than about what to say. I don't want to dwell on the negative in my PS, and so I didn't know if I should include this in the explanation of academic probation or in a separate letter included with my secondaries.

Sorry for being so long winded, I'd most definitely appreciate any help you can offer as I'm trying to get my applications out ASAP.

In the previous lives of these advice forums, LizzieM has discussed the issue of your story. I would encourage you to follow her advice and not discuss this issue in depth. A sentence like "I wasn't boozing or goofing off", even if worded better, will not be helpful to an adcom. Much better to, as I've suggested to others, make a very, very brief statement that your initial academic performance was poor due to lack of experience with college (or whatever, but keep it to a few words) and then tell us the positives. Make us want to meet you and hear about what you have to offer. Telling us that you had bad grades but weren't a slacker/drinker won't make me excited to meet you and hear more along this line. Hearing about what you've done in college and what you'd like to do with your career would!

It doesn't matter to me where you put it. I read the whole application I get.

 

[Doodledog]

Hello everyone, I am in need of some advice and guidance. I am going to be a junior in this coming fall, and it has taken me 2 years of immaturity and negligence to understand the severity of my consequences due to my actions. I have always wanted to enter the professional field, but am was unsure of whether I would want to due dentistry or medicine. My credentials are good, I have a 3.92 gpa and 3.94 bcpm with many volunteer hours, activities, and leadership experiences. However, I have also made many mistakes in my life. These mistakes have primarily been underage drinking. My freshman year I got in trouble for allowing friends of mine drink alcohol in my room while we were watching a movie, but I was not drinking. We all got in trouble although my consequences were the most minimal. Also, I have received 3 underage drinking tickets from my campus town. The first 2 were dismissed and the 3rd I was placed under supervision. I have never been convicted of anything in my life, and have never received any criminal charges. These were all matters of city ordinance violations, which all 3 will be classified as dismissed including the last after completion of successful supervision. In the past two months I have been sick to my stomach that I have jeopardized or ruined my future. I have spoken with my attorney who assures me that none of these are convictions of any crime, criminal charges, or misdemeanors/felonies. I know I will have to report the dorm incident, but am hesitant on reporting any others. If I truthfully answer the questions which do not require me to list them, how will this affect me? If somehow a medical school found out would they immediately terminate my application or my matriculation status, even though I was not dishonest? What should I do? Dentistry or Medicine? I know that i have changed for sure, because I started reflecting on all this for the past several months after I was diagnosed with a kidney disease. The kidney disease has nothing to do with my underage drinking, in all honesty, I am a average college drinker, and am mostly unlucky and was immature and naive during my first year of undergrad. For the past 5-6 months I have seriously evaluated my life, going to church more, exercising constantly while focusing on my studies. The diagnosis of this disease, which is genetic, has seriously changed my life. I want to achieve all my goals, and don't have time for anymore nonsense. What should I do?

The questions asked by each school should always be answered fully and honestly. The details of your situation and how they should be answered cannot be answered meaningfully here, but require consultation with each school to which you plan to apply. Similarly, we cannot decide on a career pathway for you. If you are this uncertain, then you are not ready to decide yet and need more clinical exposure to make an informed decision.

 

[Madame]

I have a bachelor's degree and some graduate work, and will of course be providing those transcripts. This summer, I began (with one course) a program at a community college that will provide medical employment if I am not admitted to school. The question is: since they gave me 91 hours of transfer credit at the CC from my BS, will I have to list all the transfer credits as they appear on the CC transcript in AMCAS?

Thank you.

Obviously, you need only list each course once. If it appears on the transcript from your bachelor's degree, you've already listed it and need not list it again.

 

[Madame]

Hi! I am a rising senior currently in the process of applying to medical school. Last summer I started losing weight unintentionally and went through a semester's worth of doctor's visits and tests before being diagnosed with gastroparesis and IBS in December. Spring semester was spent adapting to diet changes. I now have both of these illnesses completely under control. I did not miss ANY class during these 2 semesters and my GPA was actually the best it has ever been. I know a freqently asked interview question is "tell us about a challenging situation you've been through" and I would love to use this as a example, however I worry that they will label me "sick" and unfit for medical school even though this is not true. Is it worth bringing this up to show how I conquered a tough situation and saw the patient-side of the medical field, or is it too risky? I would greatly appreciate any feedback. Thanks!

The "challenging experience" question is meant to determine how you cope with adversity. If you can come up with a way to answer that question without raising concerns about your current or future health status then it should be a fine example. The key is to focus on your coping skills rather than the circumstances that required you to employ those skills.