Medical School is such a scam

This forum made possible through the generous support of SDN members, donors, and sponsors. Thank you.
96k base is starting or after a certain number of years? How many years have you worked to get to this base of 96k.

What’s the monthly benefit for the pension? How many years of service for this particular monthly benefit? Can you only get it after hitting 65 or as soon as you get out of the system?
Just to be clear, I'm saying despite my decent salary and the life I made on it, there are still times when I wish I could go back and go to medical school..

My pension will be 60k per year starting when I turn 48. Combined with a part time RN job, I'll be doing fairly well in retirement working 2 days per week.

Members don't see this ad.
 
  • Like
Reactions: 1 users
Fire fighters make significantly more than teachers though right?

Educate me, what’s the starting salary of a fire fighter? What’s the salary 5-10 years in usually?

How many years of service before you get a pension and how much is the monthly benefit for a pension after 20 or 30 years of working?
Keep in mind that a lot of teachers only work 9 months out of the year.

Firefighter salaries vary significantly by region. We start them off at $50k/yr at my department. Fire chiefs make >$120k. Seattle starts at $82k/yr currently.
 
  • Like
Reactions: 1 user
You think private equity is bad, imagine being directly employed by Wal-Mart or Costso.

Optometry is a pretty neat field, but the business end can be pretty bad. My dad was a solo practice optometrist, for context.
I know my buddy worked for one of the big lenscrafter type shops til he opened up for himself.

Most of the ODs who work at walmart or whatever do so as ICs or rent space. I am quite familiar. That being said by buddy sold his practice for enough that he is basically retired in his 40s.
 
Members don't see this ad :)
Teachers are one of the worse jobs. Kids don't listen, parents don't care, admin doesn't support. People who go into this profession to affect the next generation start to realize that they are stuck til they hit pension or quit. Lets not compare a doc's job/salary to a teacher's salary. I rather make 80K as a doc than 80K as a teacher assuming no debt.

EM docs have it good and better than 90% of the professions. To compare the top end salary as a nurse (>200K) and bottom MD salary is just dumb. Compare the low end and top end of both is more of a fair comparison. my 1st job started at 400K for 40hrs/wk. I eventually hit 600K working about 40hrs/wk. I currently make high end NSG salary working less than 40hrs/wk. I have many partners who make more than I do working even less.

EM is what you want to make of it. You can avoid working nights and weekends if you are willing to sacrifice salary and some regional flexibility. You can schedule off when you want. I can't remember missing any of my kids big activities in my life. I took 2 weeks off all the time for vacations. No way can a teacher's job have this flexibility and actually not many fields in medicine can. I am going camping for 1 week for my kid's school event and 3 other docs I know with kids (Anesthesiologist, Surgeon, Surgeon) can't go b/c they all work. This is my 3rd kid going through the camp and I have been to each.

EM sucks and there are alot that sucks, but so do many jobs that do not afford the $$$, time, flexibility. Really, I would not change fields if I had to do it over. All specialist complains that their jobs suck.
 
  • Like
Reactions: 5 users
I don't get how people like Denver, PNW, NE. I can see cali for the weather.

I live in Texas, its hot in the summer. Like 95-100+ for 3 straight months But I get to wear shorts literally the rest of the year but a few days. I would trade this in a heartbeat for anything in the cold states. People make hot weather to be so bad, yes I will agree with humid hot like Houston/fla. But Dry heat is not bad. You can jump in the pool, jump in your AC car. Rarely am I out in the heat unless I am doing some water activities.

I get the 70-80's almost year round in some Cali areas but if It costs me 2x the housing/COL, then its just not worth it. I get 70-80's in Texas for 6 month of the year.

I used to live in Philly and the brutal winters is 100x worse than the brutal heat of texas.
 
  • Like
Reactions: 1 user
The jobs I’ve had (hospital employed), even in the salad days when pay and the job were good, I did not realistically get vacation time. Our contracts said “6 weeks unpaid vacation” but really we just contracted x hours per week for 46 weeks per year And the group policy was and is can’t ask for more than 10 days off. I once asked one of the older guys in the group when the last time he took two weeks off and he said “1995, when I finished residency”. Any time off meant front or back loading your work schedule so that you would work almost every day for a couple of weeks right before or after a vacation or you’d have to perform some gyrations straddling a couple of months, all the while trying to not step on your partners’ toes scheduling theirs. I work 2/3 full time now and doing this, when I have stretches of 10-14 days off every other month or so and I get a regular sleep and exercise schedule, I realize how effing tired I am all the time and how bad this job is for my health.

I post this not to really argue that teachers, etc have better jobs but just so the non EM folks can understand a little that, yeah, working only 13-15 days per month is nice but the days off are not always Julie Andrews waltzing though meadows singing the Sound of Music. Your life is different, sometimes in a better way, sometimes not. You will be at your children’s school plays maybe a little more than your non EM colleagues but you will miss plenty of their weekend activities. There will be times early in your career when you’re going out with friends and you think “I hope I’m not a dud because I’m so tired” and then one day you realize you ask yourself that question every time you go out.
 
  • Like
Reactions: 3 users
You have proven my point to an extent. EM allow you to choose how you want your work environment. By choosing hospital employee with fix hours/month, you have chose a more restrictive work life.

I chose a 120hr/mo job, but you could give up shifts. So if you wanted to work less, then give up your shifts. If you want to not do nights, then u lose the stipend.
 
  • Like
Reactions: 1 user
I’m about to pay off a $400k house I bought 3 years ago. No way in hell I could have done that on a teachers pay lol
If you bought 3 years ago you got in and or refinanced at an extremely low interest rate. Why pay it off early?
 
It’s entirely location based, but I’m at 96k base and they’re at 92k.. Midwest state, capital seat and major metro area. Our area cities all pay significantly higher than even the surrounding counties though.


whew. That seems high for teachers in the Midwest. My mom’s been teaching for over 35 years and hasn’t broken $70k. New teachers start around $35k. It’s rural but due to oil industry not really low COL.

 
  • Like
Reactions: 1 user
If you bought 3 years ago you got in and or refinanced at an extremely low interest rate. Why pay it off early?
Student loans left a bad taste in my mouth. I’m very debt averse. Would have paid cash for my house if I could.
 
  • Like
Reactions: 5 users
Student loans left a bad taste in my mouth. I’m very debt averse. Would have paid cash for my house if I could.

Low interest fixed debt is one of the strongest tools to building wealth.

If your interest rate is sub 4 then strongly reconsider since right now you can do risk free investing and get a 4% return literally in a HYSA.

You can do very low risk debt investing aka be the bank and get 10 percent.

If someone gave me money at 4 percent i would put it in the peloris debt fund and get 12-15 percent annualized return, distributions every month, with a very low average LTV ratio of 60 percent for the portfolio of loans. 3 percent debt is free money.
 
Last edited:
  • Like
Reactions: 1 users
Low interest fixed debt is one of the strongest tools to building wealth.

If your interest rate is sub 4 then strongly reconsider since right now you can do risk free investing and get a 4% return literally in a HYSA.

You can do very low risk debt investing aka be the bank and get 10 percent.

If someone gave me money at 4 percent i would put it in the peloris debt fund and get 12-15 percent annualized return, distributions every month, with a very low average LTV ratio of 60 percent for the portfolio of loans. 3 percent debt is free money.
I’ve got maybe 27k left on that mortgage, lol, not sure it’s worth going through all that.
 
Low interest debt when paid brings cash flow and I would rather have more of my income than a few higher % in a long term investment
 
Members don't see this ad :)
Low interest fixed debt is one of the strongest tools to building wealth.

If your interest rate is sub 4 then strongly reconsider since right now you can do risk free investing and get a 4% return literally in a HYSA.

You can do very low risk debt investing aka be the bank and get 10 percent.

If someone gave me money at 4 percent i would put it in the peloris debt fund and get 12-15 percent annualized return, distributions every month, with a very low average LTV ratio of 60 percent for the portfolio of loans. 3 percent debt is free money.
I have a property with 2M in equity at 4% interest. Once interest goes down to 4%, I am refinancing a 70%LTV and pulling out 1.5M to invest in apt syndications. Pull 8% or 120K/yr. New loan will costs 84K/yr or about 60K with tax benefits. I will literally be making about 60k/yr just refinancing.
 
  • Like
Reactions: 1 user
It’s the wrong answer in absolute math terms.
If the psychological benefit of having no debt is important to people, then I say go ahead and pay down all your debt.

That said, including my primary residence and several lines of credit, I have over 1M in <=3% interest debt. I wish I could get more.
 
  • Like
Reactions: 5 users
If the psychological benefit of having no debt is important to people, then I say go ahead and pay down all your debt.

That said, including my primary residence and several lines of credit, I have over 1M in <=3% interest debt. I wish I could get more.

If someone gave me debt at less than 4 percent, i would take a million dollars of it now.

I wish i could roll back time where i refinanced my student loans at 3 percent rather than just paying them off.

The investing opportunities are so endless, I feel like I’m always short on liquidity because I’m always investing. I need liquidity - put 15k in a storage fund today. Going to put 25k in an industrial fund in 5 days when it opens up on crowdstreet - then I’m down to 5k cash until next pay day -_- i also want to put 25k in the peloris fund or even more if i had it. Bam fund 4 is opening up in a couple months and ill need 50k for that. Ashcroft started their new fund and i dont have 25k for that right now and don’t want to tap my taxable account that is returning 20-30 percent -_- ugh liquidity….
 
If someone gave me debt at less than 4 percent, i would take a million dollars of it now.

I wish i could roll back time where i refinanced my student loans at 3 percent rather than just paying them off.

The investing opportunities are so endless, I feel like I’m always short on liquidity because I’m always investing. I need liquidity - put 15k in a storage fund today. Going to put 25k in an industrial fund in 5 days when it opens up on crowdstreet - then I’m down to 5k cash until next pay day -_- i also want to put 25k in the peloris fund or even more if i had it. Bam fund 4 is opening up in a couple months and ill need 50k for that. Ashcroft started their new fund and i dont have 25k for that right now and don’t want to tap my taxable account that is returning 20-30 percent -_- ugh liquidity….
I think anyone making a sure regular 25% on their taxable investments must be the greatest investor of our lifetime.

That you?
 
  • Like
Reactions: 2 users
If the psychological benefit of having no debt is important to people, then I say go ahead and pay down all your debt

Now this we can both agree on, although i will concur the other side is just as right.

I know student loan debt is garbage and simply can’t be compared to a low fixed rate asset backed mortgage, but I sleep much better at night knowing I don’t owe a stupid amount of money to the bank.

FYI for anyone wondering, it’s not as if I’m not saving and investing either - I park about $10k a month in investments.
 
  • Like
Reactions: 3 users
I think anyone making a sure regular 25% on their taxable investments must be the greatest investor of our lifetime.

That you?

Just for the last 2 years mostly, though 80 percent return in 3 years isn’t terrible. The first year of trading was really just the education year, skill, and ability to stomach high volatility developed this last year. Ended last year really strongly and started this year pretty strong. And the way a couple of etfs are priced, specifically ewz, i believe i will continue to make 2-3 percent per month until ewz is fairly priced in the 35-40 range. Once that happens, my potential downside opens up significantly and I’ll have to find alternate strategies and probably start moving money into real estate.

But for now, I’m going to milk my current strategy and hope for a decade of sideways market.

Edit: until ewz is sub $32, i am extremely confident that i will make >20 percent on my taxable - it will be bumpy and volatile, but eventually that will be the average return.
 

Attachments

  • 3A587F72-8D18-4FE8-8E53-BEDE5EFC876C.jpeg
    3A587F72-8D18-4FE8-8E53-BEDE5EFC876C.jpeg
    152.2 KB · Views: 63
Last edited:
You can be in the Ramsey camp where you want zero debt. This is the right answer for anyone who is debt adverse or want to avoid bankruptcy.

You need money to make money but that comes with losing all of your money. But history shows that using debt correctly usually puts you ahead but tell that to the guy who lost 80% of his money in Nasdaq in 2001 or the guy who lost 60% of his property gamble in 2008.

I think there has to be a balance between the two. I am comfortable taking out 1.5M at 4% on a property b/c I feel putting them in syndications is a good bet. 3-4 yrs ago, I put 350K into apt syndications that all returned 8% even through Covid. Plus all 7 properties sold and I rolled the 700K into new syndications. So I am willing to risk that apt syndications continue to go up and if I can put 1.5M into it, and it doubles in 3-4 yrs then I can pay off the 1.5M note and have 1.5M left or I can just roll the 3M into more syndications which will put out 240K/yr for me to pay off the 1.5M note.

The syndications could all blow up and I could be left with a 1.5M debt but at worse I sell the house to get out from under the debt.
 
Math can tell you how to get more of what's important to you, but it can't tell you what's important to you.
 
  • Like
Reactions: 6 users
@cyanide12345678

Do you mind educating us on these different funds you have your eye on? Ive been trying to learn syndications but its still very confusing to me.
 
@cyanide12345678

Do you mind educating us on these different funds you have your eye on? Ive been trying to learn syndications but its still very confusing to me.

Equitymultiple.com has two interesting funds right now.

One of those is vanwest storage fund 3. They are good operators, I’m in fund two with them and reliably have gotten a rental check from them. They are beating fund 2 proforma, so i thought why not put money in fund 3 as well. 15k is minimum. The only big downside is that their coinvestment is only 3 or so percent but they’ve been performing so i don’t care.

The other is the peloris debt fund - it’s technically a reit. If you go directly to peloris they have a 250k investment minimum. 25k minimum through equitymultiple. It’s private real estate but it’s such a big reit that it has a legit investment grading. They currently are yielding around 13-14 percent return. They loan hard money to the cannibis industry where traditional banks aren’t lending much money. So they can charge a premium. They are the first on lein and currently have a LTV of 58 percent, which in the case of default and foreclosure is significant downside protection. You get a monthly return - you are the bank basically and you get 13 percent roughly right now.

Ashcroft capital is an incredible sponsor. I’m in their last value add fund. Their new fund just started and is only seeded with 1 asset so far. Their previous fund was my first syndication after a lot of research. Reliably every month i get a paycheck from them from the previous fund. Ive never liked their waterfall structure though - they take quite a big cut if they really deliver, which makes me pause a little though. But if you care more about reliability rather than absolute return this is a good go to. They have an excellent reputation on bigger pockets

BAM Capital - barret asset management. Mid west based. Their main office is in my backyard. Ivan Barrett has an excellent reputation on bigger pockets as well. I’m in fund 2, there are over performing on fund 2. I didn’t have liquidity for fund 3 and i didn’t prioritize it because they were recapitalizing 2-3 assets from fund 1. But they are excellent operators and have beaten their proforma at least on fund 2 which I’m in. They run a well oiled machine and are targeting the mid west which i think is going to start getting a lot of traction as the rest of the US becomes increasingly unaffordable.

I’m also eyeing fund 8 with ODC fund. Open door capital which is the brain child of Brandon turner - big real estate personality. They have a 100k minimum but if you ask them, they will do 50k. I already asked about that. But i don’t have 50k liquid either 😂 they are in the space of manufactured low cost housing - think trailer parks. Trailer parks have incredible cash flows and have done surprisingly well in the past in recessions. I really want to be in the space. My only issue with them is that this fund is a ‘forever fund’. They will return all your capital in less than 5 years through a refinance or cash flow, after that you perpetually keep getting cash flow for the next decade or two as you maintain your ownership share until eventual liquidation. While that sounds good, but in absolute mathematical terms, that’s going to decrease IRR over time.

Crowdstreet has an industrial fund that opens up in 4-5 days, i haven’t read the details on it, but I’ve seriously been wanting to go in the industrial space and a fund is a safer way to do it.
 
Last edited:
@cyanide12345678

Do you mind educating us on these different funds you have your eye on? Ive been trying to learn syndications but its still very confusing to me.

Things to look for in syndication deals (kind of in order of importance in my opinion):

1) Sponsor quality. This is foremost the most important aspect of syndications. A good sponsor can salvage a bad deal and a poor sponsor can ruin a good deal. Pay a lot of attention to assets under management, years in the business (extra points if they've lived through the 2008 recession and came out of it stronger). Their track record (how many deals have they gone full circle on, what's the IRR, and equity multiple on average for their past deals). If they've lost investor money.

2) Sponsor Co-investment. This is the amount of money the sponsor is putting in the deal themselves. Tells me how much skin in the game the sponsor has. Average is considered 10% equity in a deal. Anything below than that and I'm usually turned off a lot by that. Anything more than that, then I get very intrigued because obviously the sponsor has A LOT of confidence in the deal and is willing to bet their money alongside you. You will find terrible deals where the sponsor puts in 5% or sometimes even 2.5%. It's ridiculous, I don't even bother reading those deals. If a sponsor puts in 2.5% then they are in a no lose situation. Because their fees are going to be higher than the investment they've put in. That's an absolute no no for me. On the other hand, I'm in a self storage fund with ziffcre.com as sponsor, it was a 50 million dollar fund, 25 million (50% of the entire investment) was money from the principles of the business - that sort of co-investment is unheard of. I have 50k in that fund, for me to lose 50k, the sponsor has to lose 25 million. They are sure as heck going to protect that money lol. Ziffcre does ridiculous co-investments, they just did a retail plaza in south calorina where they were putting in 70% of the money.

3) Going in cap rate and cost basis in comparison to market comps. Cost basis really matters. Some deals are ridiculous and people are buying at a 3-4% cap rate. It's really ridiculous if the debt interest is higher than the cap rate they are going in at. The bare minimum should be that the cap rate should be higher than the debt interest rate otherwise that is much higher risk.

4) Debt terms - Long term fixed rate is best. The debt should be 1 or 2 years longer than the hold time. If market is bad, that should give time to hold property. Real estate losses are realized when debt comes due and the market is down. Success comes when you can just hold and cash flow.

5) DSCR - Debt service coverage ratio. So this is essentially the ratio between the money the property makes and the amount of money needed to pay off debt payments. Usually you want atleast a > 1.3 DSCR ratio. 1.5+ is a really safe deal.

6) Cash flow. I've moved away from development deals eventhough they usually yield higher returns. Now I personally look for deals that cash flow from day 1 and I start getting rental checks soon.

7) Market - Some markets are better than others. Places like austin, dallas, pheonix, atlanta, charlotte etc are growing a lot with a lot of positive migration. Some places are losing people. I try to invest in the path of growth usually. Population growth, income levels, population within 3-5 miles etc. That kind of stuff matters.

8) Fees - Waterfall structure 8% preferred return is average followed by a 70:30 split. That's about average. Sometimes there's a 50:50 split after a 20% IRR. 5% contruction hard cost and soft costs is about average, 2-3% gross revenue is average for property management fee, there's usually a 1% acquisition fee. This is about average.

9) this isn’t the least important, it’s something very important, i just forgot to mention it earlier and don’t feel like re-numbering. Exit cap rate assumption. Really evaluate if the exit cap rate is realistic. I’ve seen deals that are going in at a 6 cap and predicting a 5 cap exit. I mean…. Come on, you gotta be conservative on the exit cap. Unrealistic exit caps can really lower your return. A conservation estimate is a higher cap rate than what you bought the deal at.

There are other things that matter but I think these are the biggest ones.

Why syndications are amazing in my opinion:

1) Really really easy to diversify. I'm in multifamily, retail, office, hotels, self storage, in a bunch of different states and markets.
2) Literally no work and truly passive after you've done your evaluation of the deal and put your money in.
3) In theory the sponsor with decades of experience, millions/billions of assets under management is going to have financing access, deal access, and ability to execute the business plan in a far superior way than if I owned a property myself. If I owned something, I'll likely struggle to optimize the property in the way an experienced operator can.
4) Diversification of tenants - if i buy 1 house and put my money in it, and I get 1 bad tenant who doesn't pay and I have to evict them and they destroy my home in the process, I've lost a lot of money since 100% of my property is destroyed. If you're investing in a 200 unit building, and 5 units have bad tenants with evictions who destroy the property, that's still only 2.5% of the property getting damaged.
5) DEPRECIATION = Tax deferral. You will get rental cash, yet you'll show losses on your taxes (until you sell the property, but then you'll have depreciation from new deals hopefully to off-set that).

Why syndictions can suck:
1)
Tax time will suck. Several K1s. Sponsors can sometimes suck in getting out their K1 in time. You will have to extend your tax deadline.
2) A LOT of state income taxes. Every place where i got a property, I have to file a state income tax there.
3) you have no control, if a sponsor underperforms - you just sit and watch.
 
  • Like
Reactions: 1 user
Depreciation is only available to ACTIVE INVESTORS not PASSIVE INVESTORS against their ACTIVE INCOME. Now if your PASSIVE INCOME is substantial, you can offset it with PASSIVE LOSS generated from depreciation.

Passive losses can't offset active income, including income from things like other investments. This means you can't apply passive activity losses to active income if the passive losses exceed the amount of passive income you earned from the passive activity.

Ergo, the advantage of depreciation is fairly minimal, especially with commercial real estate (39 year schedule, unless cost segregated into a quicker ~22 year?). Buy an airplane and put it into business use? 80% bonus depreciation in 2023. Equipment? same, or MACRS. But this is an investment so..

WHEN you buy in matters HUGELY. If, as you point out, your cap rate is low and you buy at the wrong time.. you'll have tied up substantial sums for cash flow that falls well below what simply investing in a high dividend fund does.. with none of the liquidity.

The risk reward balance with syndicators favors the house heavily. Apartments? They get into fees to the residents and you'll not see a dime of it (water is a famously abused one since there is no meter for each apartment). And on and on.

Its important for the average investor to realize that maybe buying a well diversified blue chip set of stocks, especially after the market crashes, can give you some nice returns.

Your 82% return is largely from the last couple months and I congratulate you. That doesn't necessarily project out 5 10 or 25 years, and moreso, you're taking on serious risk. After 2008, some folks were destroyed, as the margin clerks don't care.

Be careful folks.
 
  • Like
Reactions: 1 users
Depreciation is only available to ACTIVE INVESTORS not PASSIVE INVESTORS against their ACTIVE INCOME. Now if your PASSIVE INCOME is substantial, you can offset it with PASSIVE LOSS generated from depreciation.

Passive losses can't offset active income, including income from things like other investments. This means you can't apply passive activity losses to active income if the passive losses exceed the amount of passive income you earned from the passive activity.

Ergo, the advantage of depreciation is fairly minimal, especially with commercial real estate (39 year schedule, unless cost segregated into a quicker ~22 year?). Buy an airplane and put it into business use? 80% bonus depreciation in 2023. Equipment? same, or MACRS. But this is an investment so..

WHEN you buy in matters HUGELY. If, as you point out, your cap rate is low and you buy at the wrong time.. you'll have tied up substantial sums for cash flow that falls well below what simply investing in a high dividend fund does.. with none of the liquidity.

The risk reward balance with syndicators favors the house heavily. Apartments? They get into fees to the residents and you'll not see a dime of it (water is a famously abused one since there is no meter for each apartment). And on and on.

Its important for the average investor to realize that maybe buying a well diversified blue chip set of stocks, especially after the market crashes, can give you some nice returns.

Your 82% return is largely from the last couple months and I congratulate you. That doesn't necessarily project out 5 10 or 25 years, and moreso, you're taking on serious risk. After 2008, some folks were destroyed, as the margin clerks don't care.

Be careful folks.

Right. Passive losses can’t offset active income. But you can offset passive income. So every rental check you receive, is essentially tax deferred because of depreciation losses. Plus you can carry forward losses, im sitting on 90k of losses. Whenever a few of my syndications sell, i will not be paying any capital gains taxes on the first 90k either. In fact, as i accumulate more passive assets, i will keep offsetting capital gains of previous holdings - and that’s the game.

A disproportionally large percentage of millionaires and billionaires in the US have gotten there through real estate. It’s because an average 3 percent of appreciation over time has meant significant upside with leverage and 70 percent ltv. Then throw in cash flow, depreciation tax benefits, loan pay down over time.

Also…i don’t know how many syndications you’ve done. I’m in 16, all but 3 did a cost segregation study, two of which that didn’t are new construction funds. Almost every one is making use of accelerated depreciation. That is fairly normal.

And I’m not sure what you are talking about, all ancillary fees charged to tenants is counted amongst revenue, i mean if you want i have a dozen quarterly reports and financial statements that show ancillary incomes from fees. These fees count towards net operating income. It’s simple math. The caveat would be if you have a sponsor committing fraud and taking in revenue and not declaring it. The normal fees otherwise charged are very clearly declared in the offering memorandum and include the waterfall structure, asset management fee, closing costs, financing fee, construction management fee etc. they are very very well defined. And investors get a preferred return up to 8 percent usually. My only underperforming deal by the way has a 10 percent preferred return. So if the deal IRR is sub 10 percent, Sponsor gets $0 extra outside of what the fee is.

No doubt having a diversified blue chip portfolio will give respectable gains. A lot of people make wealth that way over a long period of time. The truly rich aren’t actually diversified, they have very concentrated wealth. It’s their niche and expertise where they created their wealth.

And my 82 percent return was mostly in last 6 months. When i saw some incredible market opportunities, i went big, in fact, posted my portfolio fairly openly here for anyone to see. Also, you assume I’m taking massive risk, all the mathematical numbers suggest otherwise. The Greeks of options determine risk. You can’t just look at my high return and assume I’m taking a lot of risk. Because you are simply wrong.

For example:

I have 100 puts on arkk, strike 30, expiration 35 days. I started this trade 10 days ago, arkk has dropped 8-10 percent since then, while my position is negative $1344 since inception - so 0.3 percent negative for my account. So i didn’t realize a loss even close to what the actual underlying has experienced. In fact, right now as i type this, arkk is down 3.15 percent, im negative $500 for the day on the position - less than 0.1 percent for my account for the day despite a 3 percent drop in underlying. That’s the kind of risk this is. And yet I’m expecting to gain $26k in 34 days - that’s a 5 percent return by the way ;) most of which is on ewz. Though ewz has dropped from 30.5 to 28 as well since i started the position 3 weeks ago, yet the position is positive now. This is the beauty of getting paid for time - a constant that only moves in 1 direction.

In fact, market is fairly negative today, I’m up 1 percent :) you cannot understand my risk without looking at the Greeks of options And understanding what would happen with price changes.

Edit: well at Least the market was negative when i posted. I like the reversal that happened. Arkk is still negative 1.6 percent for the day, my put position is however positive $150 for the day now.
 

Attachments

  • E32BE043-CD4B-41FA-A660-E59CF00A9B43.png
    E32BE043-CD4B-41FA-A660-E59CF00A9B43.png
    183.7 KB · Views: 48
  • 195B1F43-DA40-40AC-95CA-512A5A72788E.png
    195B1F43-DA40-40AC-95CA-512A5A72788E.png
    134.7 KB · Views: 48
Last edited:
Ah yes, bamboozle them with greeks. Welp, this guy knows options are indeed a zero sum game, unlike stock. Difference being of course, TIME.

If you're buying options, you're a theta burn loser by default and have to predict PRICE and TIMING.

If you're selling options (like the pros do) your payoff (over a broad history) is much better. This is what the pros do. And they tend to do it with IV spiking when premiums get rich. The seem to have quite the upper hand on timing.

Of course there is no end to the jeenyuses who say "look at my returns on my options play!" and yes, they can do it. For a while. But then one day it BLOWS UP and they're GONE. Buh bye. Too much risk, and its hard to remain disciplined when the big green comes on screen. Margin clerks don't even give 1.

Now that we've established there is no superior knowledge base, I say again... for those watching. Be very VERY careful with this.

Syndications blow up all the time. Property values decline and tenants leave, guess who holds the bag first. Zero liquidity.

Sure as part of a bigger diversified portfolio, why not. To concentrate and take risk is where pain lurks and there is NO COMING BACK from the margin clerks.

Good luck to all players. Want to juice your returns? Buy TQQQ and VUG and forget about it for 10 years.

Let the games begin..
 
  • Like
Reactions: 1 user
If you're selling options (like the pros do) your payoff (over a broad history) is much better. This is what the pros do. And they tend to do it with IV spiking when premiums get rich. The seem to have quite the upper hand on timing.

This is exactly what I’m doing lol. Never have and never will be the sucker buying a put or call.

I’m all about that premium harvesting through theta decay.
 
  • Like
Reactions: 1 user
Right. Passive losses can’t offset active income. But you can offset passive income. So every rental check you receive, is essentially tax deferred because of depreciation losses. Plus you can carry forward losses, im sitting on 90k of losses. Whenever a few of my syndications sell, i will not be paying any capital gains taxes on the first 90k either. In fact, as i accumulate more passive assets, i will keep offsetting capital gains of previous holdings - and that’s the game.

A disproportionally large percentage of millionaires and billionaires in the US have gotten there through real estate. It’s because an average 3 percent of appreciation over time has meant significant upside with leverage and 70 percent ltv. Then throw in cash flow, depreciation tax benefits, loan pay down over time.

Also…i don’t know how many syndications you’ve done. I’m in 16, all but 3 did a cost segregation study, two of which that didn’t are new construction funds. Almost every one is making use of accelerated depreciation. That is fairly normal.

And I’m not sure what you are talking about, all ancillary fees charged to tenants is counted amongst revenue, i mean if you want i have a dozen quarterly reports and financial statements that show ancillary incomes from fees. These fees count towards net operating income. It’s simple math. The caveat would be if you have a sponsor committing fraud and taking in revenue and not declaring it. The normal fees otherwise charged are very clearly declared in the offering memorandum and include the waterfall structure, asset management fee, closing costs, financing fee, construction management fee etc. they are very very well defined. And investors get a preferred return up to 8 percent usually. My only underperforming deal by the way has a 10 percent preferred return. So if the deal IRR is sub 10 percent, Sponsor gets $0 extra outside of what the fee is.

No doubt having a diversified blue chip portfolio will give respectable gains. A lot of people make wealth that way over a long period of time. The truly rich aren’t actually diversified, they have very concentrated wealth. It’s their niche and expertise where they created their wealth.

And my 82 percent return was mostly in last 6 months. When i saw some incredible market opportunities, i went big, in fact, posted my portfolio fairly openly here for anyone to see. Also, you assume I’m taking massive risk, all the mathematical numbers suggest otherwise. The Greeks of options determine risk. You can’t just look at my high return and assume I’m taking a lot of risk. Because you are simply wrong.

For example:

I have 100 puts on arkk, strike 30, expiration 35 days. I started this trade 10 days ago, arkk has dropped 8-10 percent since then, while my position is negative $1344 since inception - so 0.3 percent negative for my account. So i didn’t realize a loss even close to what the actual underlying has experienced. In fact, right now as i type this, arkk is down 3.15 percent, im negative $500 for the day on the position - less than 0.1 percent for my account for the day despite a 3 percent drop in underlying. That’s the kind of risk this is. And yet I’m expecting to gain $26k in 34 days - that’s a 5 percent return by the way ;) most of which is on ewz. Though ewz has dropped from 30.5 to 28 as well since i started the position 3 weeks ago, yet the position is positive now. This is the beauty of getting paid for time - a constant that only moves in 1 direction.

In fact, market is fairly negative today, I’m up 1 percent :) you cannot understand my risk without looking at the Greeks of options And understanding what would happen with price changes.

Edit: well at Least the market was negative when i posted. I like the reversal that happened. Arkk is still negative 1.6 percent for the day, my put position is however positive $150 for the day now.
Is this an ophtho consult note? It makes about as much sense to me.
 
  • Like
  • Haha
Reactions: 12 users
There is never a sure bet, otherwise someone would be a gillionaire. Every strategy has its plus/minuses.

The only thing that I am positive about
#1. You have to have $$$ to make $$$$
#2. Time is your friend, start early
#3. Leverage is your friend be it low interest, RE leverage
#4. Diversify

Back to Apt syndications. What matters most is picking the best operators. They manage risk, pick good projects, increase Add value, and know when to exit
 
  • Like
Reactions: 1 user
Unngh.

Keep the Finance is Fun stuff in it's own thread.

You mean the thread where the premise is that financially you’re better off being a nurse or even a teacher than being a doctor is where finance doesn’t belong?

Syndications are only open to accredited investors. How many teachers or nurses are accredited investors? These alternate investments aren’t even open to the average teacher or nurse.
 
  • Haha
  • Like
Reactions: 1 users
You mean the thread where the premise is that financially you’re better off being a nurse or even a teacher than being a doctor is where finance doesn’t belong?

Syndications are only open to accredited investors. How many teachers or nurses are accredited investors? These alternate investments aren’t even open to the average teacher or nurse.

Yeah, I get it: AND I am the crown price of thread derailment, but this is like;

"check out my strategy, I buy 666 shares of XTCP and then sit naked for a bit then refinance until my pee-pee turns purple and when the theta hits the gamma it's MUSHROOM TIME."
 
  • Like
  • Haha
Reactions: 13 users
You mean the thread where the premise is that financially you’re better off being a nurse or even a teacher than being a doctor is where finance doesn’t belong?

Syndications are only open to accredited investors. How many teachers or nurses are accredited investors? These alternate investments aren’t even open to the average teacher or nurse.
Accredited investor isn't that much $$$- a million in investable assets or income of 200k single/300k married. Plenty of teachers/nurses can meet this. A million isn't what it once was....
 
  • Like
Reactions: 1 user
Accredited investor isn't that much $$$- a million in investable assets or income of 200k single/300k married. Plenty of teachers/nurses can meet this. A million isn't what it once was....

Bro. Please. Go back in time and become a part-time nurse / part-time teacher. We all know it will maximize ypur happiness. You will make millions.
 
  • Like
Reactions: 1 users
Investor accreditation was set up to protect the poor from going bankrupt and protect the operator from being sued for preying on the poor/ignorant.

You could be check to check, living on foodstamps and ship someone 50k and check the accreditation box then your good to go. No one checks or verifies it. It is just check the box so congress feels like they are protecting the poor and the operators have legal protection.

I and my friends have never been asked to show an ounce of evidence that we are accredited.
 
  • Like
Reactions: 2 users
Investor accreditation was set up to protect the poor from going bankrupt and protect the operator from being sued for preying on the poor/ignorant.

You could be check to check, living on foodstamps and ship someone 50k and check the accreditation box then your good to go. No one checks or verifies it. It is just check the box so congress feels like they are protecting the poor and the operators have legal protection.

I and my friends have never been asked to show an ounce of evidence that we are accredited.

All portals like crowdstreet, equity multiple, real crowd require documentation of accredited status - so a letter from a lawyer or an accountant. Crowdstreet also requires biannual renewal of that.
 
  • Like
Reactions: 1 user
California has strict nursing ratios.

Also depending on the area HCOL means that high pay doesn’t go too far.


Yep.
Here’s a list of nurses who work at Univ of Ca and county hospitals. Some at the top of the list are administrators or CRNAs but plenty of clinical nurse IIs and IIIs make over $400k in the Bay Area.

I’m in Southern California and base pay for a 22yo new grad orientee nurse is $60/hr. We have many nurses who make over $200k.






And here’s the new pay scale at Stanford. New hires with no experience start at $81/hr.


 
Last edited:
  • Like
  • Wow
Reactions: 2 users
Yep.
Here’s a list of nurses who work at Univ of Ca and county hospitals. Some at the top of the list are administrators or CRNAs but plenty of clinical nurse IIs and IIIs make over $400k in the Bay Area.

I’m in Southern California and base pay for a 22yo new grad orientee nurse is $60/hr. We have many nurses who make over $200k.






And here’s the new pay scale at Stanford. New hires with no experience start at $81/hr.


Why do they become NPs then?
Not a serious question, I’m just baffled
 
Yep.
Here’s a list of nurses who work at Univ of Ca and county hospitals. Some at the top of the list are administrators or CRNAs but plenty of clinical nurse IIs and IIIs make over $400k in the Bay Area.

I’m in Southern California and base pay for a 22yo new grad orientee nurse is $60/hr. We have many nurses who make over $200k.






And here’s the new pay scale at Stanford. New hires with no experience start at $81/hr.



Most of the top of the list is the same group of people repeated over and over again, and I’m going to guess there’s more to the story for the ones that simply say ‘clinical nurse’. There’s no way $400k is anywhere close to normal for an RN, anywhere.
 
  • Like
Reactions: 6 users
Most of the top of the list is the same group of people repeated over and over again, and I’m going to guess there’s more to the story for the ones that simply say ‘clinical nurse’. There’s no way $400k is anywhere close to normal for an RN, anywhere.
I dunno I want to agree with you but you can search by year to filter out multiple entries for the same person and for 2021 I still had to go down to page 3 just to find people making in the $390k range... and if you click forward to page 25 you still have everyone making >300k.


Edit: Page 50 is still ~275k, and beyond that it asks me to download an excel file which I don't care enough to do
 
  • Like
Reactions: 1 users
Most of the top of the list is the same group of people repeated over and over again, and I’m going to guess there’s more to the story for the ones that simply say ‘clinical nurse’. There’s no way $400k is anywhere close to normal for an RN, anywhere.

This is the same search filtered to the year 2021.



While 400k is not normal, 200-300k is very normal for our OR circulators in Southern Ca. That’s how they can live here, buy homes, and raise families when a modest house costs $1mil. I imagine the norm is higher in the Bay Area.
 
Last edited:
  • Like
Reactions: 1 user
This is the same search filtered to the year 2021.



While 400k is not normal, 200k is very normal for our OR circulators. I imagine the norm is higher in the Bay Area.
200k for an OR circulator! That is remarkable.
 
  • Like
Reactions: 1 user
Why do they become NPs then?
Not a serious question, I’m just baffled


We have many NPs who work in cardiology, cardiac surgery, neurosurgery, urology, GI, etc. They see the initial consults, gather data, and round while the doctors are operating or doing their procedures. Then they come to the OR and present just like a resident would. I don’t actually know what they get paid but it’s a much cleaner, easier job than being a bedside ER, floor, or ICU nurse.
 
Last edited:
  • Like
Reactions: 1 user
This is the same search filtered to the year 2021.



While 400k is not normal, 200-300k is very normal for our OR circulators in Southern Ca. That’s how they can live here, buy homes, and raise families when a modest house costs $1mil. I imagine the norm is higher in the Bay Area.
Which is an EM doc salary. Medical school is a scam unless you wan to do subspecialty surgery or live somewhere cheap, in which case you don't need a high salary anyway.
 
  • Like
Reactions: 1 user
Social workers, pharmacists etc don't have as high salaries as nurses in the Bay or SoCal. It's the nursing union and how good nurses are at marketing themselves. There is no reason a nurse requires a higher salary than a social worker to meet cost of living expenses.

FYI the high RN salaries in the Bay have been a thing for a decade or two. The Bay doesn't cost any more than where I live, and nurses make a quarter as much. So it's not a cost of living issue.
 
Which is an EM doc salary. Medical school is a scam unless you wan to do subspecialty surgery or live somewhere cheap, in which case you don't need a high salary anyway.


Med school is the only path to become a plastic surgeon who does $200k facelifts in which case it’s not a scam;)


 
  • Like
Reactions: 1 users
Med school is the only path to become a plastic surgeon who does $200k facelifts in which case it’s not a scam;)


Agreed. Plastics, urology, ENT, and a few other specialties are worth it. But that's a huge gamble. Unlike EM, they aren't opening residencies left and right, so hard to get.

Easier to have cush job as an RN in Santa Clara.
 
  • Like
Reactions: 1 user
Top