Medical School Ranking, according to US News?

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TheLetterE

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Hey y'all,

We've all looked at them to size up our chances of getting in. The rankings listed regard Research and Primary Care. These rankings may also be numbers to consider when choosing between schools.

So my question is--

How important are these rankings? I assume that if you really want to do research, the school with the higher research ranking (if much higher) is the choice school.

Thanks a lot for your input! :hello:

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The research rankings are pretty highly related to the rankings residency directors have, and the reputation of the medical school you go to is a factor for residency (especially for competitive residencies).

According to this paper, med school reputation is a bit less important than AOA membership (which is considered pretty important):
http://journals.lww.com/academicmed..._Criteria_for_Residency__Results_of_a.24.aspx
 
I think the general consensus is that the research rank is important if you want to go into research in some capacity. If you want to practice, though, I think most would agree that rankings aren't very helpful, including the primary care rankings.
 
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I think the general consensus is that the research rank is important if you want to go into research in some capacity. If you want to practice, though, I think most would agree that rankings aren't very helpful, including the primary care rankings.

Research school grads have an edge for non-primary care residencies. I think.
 
I've been told by many people - including a neurologist I shadowed and my cousin who graduated from Baylor School of Medicine a couple years ago - that it really matters very little what your medical school is ranked as long as it is an accredited US MD school. Medical education is so standardized these days that essentially everyone learns the same stuff and uses equivalent textbooks. Unlike law or MBA school, medical school is not the "end-all" of your education/training... where you do your residency and how well you do there will determine the job offers you get. If you study hard, do well on USMLE, and make good impressions during rotations, you have just as good a shot at your top residency choice as anyone, regardless of which school they went to.

Instead of worrying about what a school is formally ranked, look at other statistics like match rate, average USMLE scores, the hospitals you will do rotations at, cost, location etc.

For example, I'm a Texas resident and San Antonio is my home. Even though Baylor and Southwestern are technically ranked higher, if I were theoretically accepted to all three, San Antonio would likely be my top choice simply because of location - automatic family support and free babysitting when my wife and I have a kid here in a year or two.

The only *slight* exception to this is if you are very interested in academic/research medicine. Schools ranked high in research probably have more experience here and might be able to help you get a somewhat better "connected" than other schools. And when you are vying for grants and spots at big name research institutions down the road, having a "prestigious" name next to your MD/PhD might benefit you slightly in the nasty world of academia.
 
The research rankings are pretty highly related to the rankings residency directors have, and the reputation of the medical school you go to is a factor for residency (especially for competitive residencies).

According to this paper, med school reputation is a bit less important than AOA membership (which is considered pretty important):
http://journals.lww.com/academicmed..._Criteria_for_Residency__Results_of_a.24.aspx

Hey Penner, thanks for the paper.

The paper also states that research doesn't seem to be an integral piece in applying for residency programs. Wouldn't that make research ranking less valuable when choosing between schools?

Lastly, how much more important are high board scores from a higher-ranking than a lower-ranking school?

Thanks!
 
I think the general consensus is that the research rank is important if you want to go into research in some capacity. If you want to practice, though, I think most would agree that rankings aren't very helpful, including the primary care rankings.

Thanks for the input!

And I just read your "required reading." Seriously???? :smuggrin:
 
I've been told by many people - including a neurologist I shadowed and my cousin who graduated from Baylor School of Medicine a couple years ago - that it really matters very little what your medical school is ranked as long as it is an accredited US MD school. Medical education is so standardized these days that essentially everyone learns the same stuff and uses equivalent textbooks. Unlike law or MBA school, medical school is not the "end-all" of your education/training... where you do your residency and how well you do there will determine the job offers you get. If you study hard, do well on USMLE, and make good impressions during rotations, you have just as good a shot at your top residency choice as anyone, regardless of which school they went to.

Instead of worrying about what a school is formally ranked, look at other statistics like match rate, average USMLE scores, the hospitals you will do rotations at, cost, location etc.

For example, I'm a Texas resident and San Antonio is my home. Even though Baylor and Southwestern are technically ranked higher, if I were theoretically accepted to all three, San Antonio would likely be my top choice simply because of location - automatic family support and free babysitting when my wife and I have a kid here in a year or two.

The only *slight* exception to this is if you are very interested in academic/research medicine. Schools ranked high in research probably have more experience here and might be able to help you get a somewhat better "connected" than other schools. And when you are vying for grants and spots at big name research institutions down the road, having a "prestigious" name next to your MD/PhD might benefit you slightly in the nasty world of academia.

Ah, thanks for the reassurance! Now I'm wondering about the kind of stigma that friends from the Caribbean are facing. I heard of Caribbean grads not being able to get into US residency programs!
 
The research rankings are pretty highly related to the rankings residency directors have, and the reputation of the medical school you go to is a factor for residency (especially for competitive residencies).

According to this paper, med school reputation is a bit less important than AOA membership (which is considered pretty important):
http://journals.lww.com/academicmed..._Criteria_for_Residency__Results_of_a.24.aspx


If you consider being 8th and 9th down the list "pretty important"
 
Ah, thanks for the reassurance! Now I'm wondering about the kind of stigma that friends from the Caribbean are facing. I heard of Caribbean grads not being able to get into US residency programs!


Yeah, the statistics are definitely against them.. but there are thousands of IMGs who get MD residencies every year, so it is possible, but the burden is on them to REALLY prove that they are just as talented and qualified as the "rest of the pack" that attend US schools.
 
If you consider being 8th and 9th down the list "pretty important"

Sure, there are more important factors. That doesn't mean #8 and #9 aren't important. How can you judge what's important and what's not based solely on how far down a list it is?

Here's an analogy. Stuff we need to live:
1) Oxygen
2) Water
3) Glucose
4) Protein (essential amino acids)
5) Vitamins
6) Sleep
7) Excretion
8) Shelter
9) Social interaction

So are shelter and social interaction not important for human life because they're #8 and #9 down the list?

It's pretty common knowledge that AOA is a somewhat important factor for getting into competitive residencies. It makes sense that med school reputation is as well (and there are many med students who'd trade a decent chunk of their step 1 score to get the Harvard name). I don't get why there's so much adversity on SDN towards the notion that med school reputation matters. Perhaps it's because we all want to dispel the common misunderstanding that medical school reputation is extremely important, or because we want pre-meds to stop being such grade grubbers... Or maybe it's because we want to tell ourselves going to a low ranked med school is okay? I personally think SDN downplays the importance of med school and undergrad reputation.
 
AOA can be important for the top residencies but that AOA is also an indicator of performance in other areas. Some schools have different standards for it, so you never really know.

8 and 9 on a list isn't very important. We aren't talking survival here. If you have solid board scores, rotate well at the site with solid LORs, good clinical grades and aren't a complete tool then you will usually match in a speciality of your choice if you apply to enough programs.

The other stuff is just icing on the cake.

Also, just because a school is "ranked" high in research, doesn't mean the students are getting good research experience. Any good school will have enough opportunities for its students to get involved. Hell, I'm PI for a neuro opthalmology study this summer AND have another research gig. I go to a lowly school that doesn't even have its own residency programs, yet when you look at our grads they pretty much match into what they want.

Getting in to school is the hard part. The rest is just staying motivated to work hard.
 
Sure, there are more important factors. That doesn't mean #8 and #9 aren't important. How can you judge what's important and what's not based solely on how far down a list it is?

Here's an analogy. Stuff we need to live:
1) Oxygen
2) Water
3) Glucose
4) Protein (essential amino acids)
5) Vitamins
6) Sleep
7) Excretion
8) Shelter
9) Social interaction

So are shelter and social interaction not important for human life because they're #8 and #9 down the list?

It's pretty common knowledge that AOA is a somewhat important factor for getting into competitive residencies. It makes sense that med school reputation is as well (and there are many med students who'd trade a decent chunk of their step 1 score to get the Harvard name). I don't get why there's so much adversity on SDN towards the notion that med school reputation matters. Perhaps it's because we all want to dispel the common misunderstanding that medical school reputation is extremely important, or because we want pre-meds to stop being such grade grubbers... Or maybe it's because we want to tell ourselves going to a low ranked med school is okay? I personally think SDN downplays the importance of med school and undergrad reputation.

Or maybe you are trying to justify your notion that the name of the school means a lot when evidence points to the fact that it doesn't. I'm sure if you are going for a derm residency and another applicant matches up exactly with you on numbers 1-8 of importance and you go to Harvard and the other person goes to a lower-tier school, you would get accepted. However, what are the chances that your app will be identical? Like someone above said, it's just icing on the cake, but it's fairly irrelevant when you get to number 9 on things of importance.
 
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This stuff has been debated ad nauseum. I think the easiest way to look at it is that for very competitive residencies and top programs in almost every field, your school name matters because everything matters. That said? not as important as step or clinical grades or recommendations.
 
Or maybe you are trying to justify your notion that the name of the school means a lot when evidence points to the fact that it doesn't. I'm sure if you are going for a derm residency and another applicant matches up exactly with you on numbers 1-8 of importance and you go to Harvard and the other person goes to a lower-tier school, you would get accepted. However, what are the chances that your app will be identical? Like someone above said, it's just icing on the cake, but it's fairly irrelevant when you get to number 9 on things of importance.

What incentive do I have to justify my notion that the name of the school means a lot? I'm not accepted to a top med school or anything.

What evidence do you have that I don't have? We're looking at the same paper - just interpreting the evidence differently. And for all we know, your interpretation is no better than mine.

And why must #1-8 be identical for #9 to matter? It's possible having a fabulous #9 could make up for a subpar #7.
 
AOA can be important for the top residencies but that AOA is also an indicator of performance in other areas. Some schools have different standards for it, so you never really know.

8 and 9 on a list isn't very important. We aren't talking survival here. If you have solid board scores, rotate well at the site with solid LORs, good clinical grades and aren't a complete tool then you will usually match in a speciality of your choice if you apply to enough programs.

The other stuff is just icing on the cake.

Also, just because a school is "ranked" high in research, doesn't mean the students are getting good research experience. Any good school will have enough opportunities for its students to get involved. Hell, I'm PI for a neuro opthalmology study this summer AND have another research gig. I go to a lowly school that doesn't even have its own residency programs, yet when you look at our grads they pretty much match into what they want.

Getting in to school is the hard part. The rest is just staying motivated to work hard.

Hey, to get into radiation oncology, that cake better have some damn good icing on it. Right?
 
Hey, to get into radiation oncology, that cake better have some damn good icing on it. Right?

Honestly decent grades, solid board scores and a lot of research and you'll be good shape for just matching rad onc. If you want to pick your program though you pretty much need to be a superstar.
 
Honestly decent grades, solid board scores and a lot of research and you'll be good shape for just matching rad onc. If you want to pick your program though you pretty much need to be a superstar.

Ack, I really want to stay in California. :scared:
 
This stuff has been debated ad nauseum. I think the easiest way to look at it is that for very competitive residencies and top programs in almost every field, your school name matters because everything matters. That said? not as important as step or clinical grades or recommendations.
+1. This has been brought up way too many times.

It's exactly like undergrad. O-chem at Harvard and o-chem at XYZ state school is no different, but why does everyone want to go to Harvard?

Prestige does matter, specially if you want to do something beyond clinical care.

It helps if #1) you want to do academic medicine, #2) you want to go into a competitive residency, and #3) you want to be trained in not just becoming a clinician.

Case in point: if you're good, whereever you'll go, you'll succeed and move far in life.
 
Ack, I really want to stay in California. :scared:

Pick a different field then. Honestly if you're not MD/PhD you're already at a pretty severe disadvantage for the top rad onc programs and limiting yourself to the most competitive state in the country is just setting yourself up for disappointment no matter how competitive a candidate you are.

How do you even know you want to do it anyways? I was far more set on career choices than 99.99% of premeds and still changed my mind 3-4 times before finally settling on rads, and I have the luxury of consulting for health care companies for a number of years and understanding the lifestyle and economics of most specialties to a much higher degree then most if not all premeds.
 
Pick a different field then. Honestly if you're not MD/PhD you're already at a pretty severe disadvantage for the top rad onc programs and limiting yourself to the most competitive state in the country is just setting yourself up for disappointment no matter how competitive a candidate you are.

How do you even know you want to do it anyways? I was far more set on career choices than 99.99% of premeds and still changed my mind 3-4 times before finally settling on rads, and I have the luxury of consulting for health care companies for a number of years and understanding the lifestyle and economics of most specialties to a much higher degree then most if not all premeds.

I'm not sure of rad/onc yet, but I am dead sure about California.
 
+1. This has been brought up way too many times.

It's exactly like undergrad. O-chem at Harvard and o-chem at XYZ state school is no different, but why does everyone want to go to Harvard?

Prestige does matter, specially if you want to do something beyond clinical care.

It helps if #1) you want to do academic medicine, #2) you want to go into a competitive residency, and #3) you want to be trained in not just becoming a clinician.

Case in point: if you're good, whereever you'll go, you'll succeed and move far in life.

Orgo at Harvard is the same as orgo at XYZ state? My TA happen to give us some Harvard problems for extra practice - are these the same types of problems given at XYZ state? (except maybe the last one which is pretty easy)
 

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Orgo at Harvard is the same as orgo at XYZ state? My TA happen to give us some Harvard problems for extra practice - are these the same types of problems given at XYZ state? (except maybe the last one which is pretty easy)

Well organic chemistry is organic chemistry is organic chemistry :rolleyes:
 
I'm not sure of rad/onc yet, but I am dead sure about California.

Why are you set on doing residency there? What if the better programs in your field of interest aren't in CA? Are you going to choose to go there regardless? I applied to med school as a CA resident and ultimately chose to go elsewhere. I'm considering several CA programs for residency but ultimately I'll go wherever I feel the best fit is. You don't have to do residency in CA to practice there as an attending (if you even want to... the economics of medicine in CA are pretty terrible)
 
Orgo at Harvard is the same as orgo at XYZ state? My TA happen to give us some Harvard problems for extra practice - are these the same types of problems given at XYZ state? (except maybe the last one which is pretty easy)

I didn't go to Harvard (or MIT), and we were advised to take orgo at Harvard cause it was way easier than the one taught at my school. I tried taking it at my school anyway, and when it looked like I was going to fail, I withdrew and took it at Harvard- did well.

I'm not saying my undergrad was impossible (don't want to start a "my school is harder than your school" debate), just pointing out that name doesn't mean everything. Orgo is orgo. And the best part is that it doesn't matter anyway. The orgo on the MCAT is barely existent and very basic, and you'll never ever see it in med school. So if you go to Harvard because you want the "harder" class...that's just dumb.
 
I'll let others duke it out over the importance / validity of the Research rankings, but I just wanted to make sure it was clear that the Primary Care rankings are 100% bull****. Completely worthless.
 
Orgo at Harvard is the same as orgo at XYZ state? My TA happen to give us some Harvard problems for extra practice - are these the same types of problems given at XYZ state? (except maybe the last one which is pretty easy)
Giving me example orgo problems from Harvard means nothing, no offense. It's harder to get a good grade from a state school because of the nonexistence of grade inflation.

All I'm saying is name does make a difference, how much is up for an endless debate. Otherwise, why would anyone pay the 50k/yr for an Ivy League school, esp if they have the mindset of pursuing graduate or professional school.
 
Hey y'all,

We've all looked at them to size up our chances of getting in. The rankings listed regard Research and Primary Care. These rankings may also be numbers to consider when choosing between schools.

So my question is--

How important are these rankings? I assume that if you really want to do research, the school with the higher research ranking (if much higher) is the choice school.

Thanks a lot for your input! :hello:

The rankings themselves are pretty meaningless. They are composed of factors that really don't affect you in med school, and certainly don't tell you which school is "better" in any useful measure. People on here use the research ranking, a ranking basically based on how much NIH funding a program gets, because it is a loose proxy for "prestige". The more prestigious places are the ones with more groundbreaking reasearch going on, and hence more grants. You can go into research from any program -- it's not so much that the ones higher on this list are better for that, although research opportunities as a med student might be more plentiful at a better funded program, so if you are bent on research then sure the programs ranked 50-60 or higher might give you an edge on setting that up (although it's still not fatal, you can always spend your first year summer going elsewhere to do research). So no, it's not even a measure of which programs are "better" for research, it's a measure of funding which is a proxy for prestige. The primary care rankings aren't useful for anything. These rankings are based primarily on how many people go into primary care. So as a result, some DO schools find their way toward the top and some of the more prestigious programs on the research ranking list find themselves deeper in the list. But there is never an impediment to going into primary care from a research heavy school. Many people do. There is no suggestion that the primary care ranked schools do a better job at preparing their students for primary care, just that more go into it. And since many primary care fields are less competitive, it's hard to parse out who actually came out of these programs wanting primary care, and who defaulted into it.

So in short, you can use the research ranking as a very very loose gauge of prestige, and can't use the primary care ranking for anything of value. I wouldn't look at schools ranked #1 or, say, #35 and expect any major difference in med school experience, any major difference in residency opportunities, etc. There are only 125 or so US allo med schools, each with fairly small classes averaging about 150 people. Over half of all applicants to allo med school won't get in, and that is already a very self selecting group based on grades and MCAT scores, so the are all very very competitive and classes at all will be very very credentialed and solid. It's kind of silly to try to rank which is better/worse based largely on non-school related factors. So sure, use the research ranking loosely -- not to think the program ranked #1 is better than #5 or #25, or that you will be a better doctor, or will have better job expectancy, but to give you a loose sense of prestige. And that's pretty much it. Where you think you will work hard and will thrive and do well is more important than the rank. Someplace with nice infrastructure, good IT resources, a good library beats rank any day.
 
The rankings themselves are pretty meaningless. They are composed of factors that really don't affect you in med school, and certainly don't tell you which school is "better" in any useful measure. People on here use the research ranking, a ranking basically based on how much NIH funding a program gets, because it is a loose proxy for "prestige". The more prestigious places are the ones with more groundbreaking reasearch going on, and hence more grants. You can go into research from any program -- it's not so much that the ones higher on this list are better for that, although research opportunities as a med student might be more plentiful at a better funded program, so if you are bent on research then sure the programs ranked 50-60 or higher might give you an edge on setting that up (although it's still not fatal, you can always spend your first year summer going elsewhere to do research). So no, it's not even a measure of which programs are "better" for research, it's a measure of funding which is a proxy for prestige. The primary care rankings aren't useful for anything. These rankings are based primarily on how many people go into primary care. So as a result, some DO schools find their way toward the top and some of the more prestigious programs on the research ranking list find themselves deeper in the list. But there is never an impediment to going into primary care from a research heavy school. Many people do. There is no suggestion that the primary care ranked schools do a better job at preparing their students for primary care, just that more go into it. And since many primary care fields are less competitive, it's hard to parse out who actually came out of these programs wanting primary care, and who defaulted into it.

So in short, you can use the research ranking as a very very loose gauge of prestige, and can't use the primary care ranking for anything of value. I wouldn't look at schools ranked #1 or, say, #35 and expect any major difference in med school experience, any major difference in residency opportunities, etc. There are only 125 or so US allo med schools, each with fairly small classes averaging about 150 people. Over half of all applicants to allo med school won't get in, and that is already a very self selecting group based on grades and MCAT scores, so the are all very very competitive and classes at all will be very very credentialed and solid. It's kind of silly to try to rank which is better/worse based largely on non-school related factors. So sure, use the research ranking loosely -- not to think the program ranked #1 is better than #5 or #25, or that you will be a better doctor, or will have better job expectancy, but to give you a loose sense of prestige. And that's pretty much it. Where you think you will work hard and will thrive and do well is more important than the rank. Someplace with nice infrastructure, good IT resources, a good library beats rank any day.

This.

The primary care rating only measures how many students at each school go into primary care! Sounds legit to me.

I would also caution anyone from believing that they know a medical school's "reputation." I'm sure "reputation" varies from one residency director to another because they are more aware of how each medical school operates and educates - definitely more aware than the average premed.

If your school has given a residency program an unusual number of shoddy residents, that might give it a poor "reputation" that you are entirely unaware of. Conversely, if they have had great residents from (for example) the University of Toledo, that might give that university a better reputation in the eyes of residency directors.
 
Orgo at Harvard is the same as orgo at XYZ state? My TA happen to give us some Harvard problems for extra practice - are these the same types of problems given at XYZ state? (except maybe the last one which is pretty easy)

I took O. Chem at a community college.

Yes, these problems are not far off from what we were given.

Like someone else here said, O. Chem is O. Chem is O. Chem.
 
Why are you set on doing residency there? What if the better programs in your field of interest aren't in CA? Are you going to choose to go there regardless? I applied to med school as a CA resident and ultimately chose to go elsewhere. I'm considering several CA programs for residency but ultimately I'll go wherever I feel the best fit is. You don't have to do residency in CA to practice there as an attending (if you even want to... the economics of medicine in CA are pretty terrible)

LOL

@ Drizz: One of our deans said that is one of the biggest downfalls of most students from California - they don't want to leave Cali even though there are amazing programs all over the country!
 
Why are you set on doing residency there? What if the better programs in your field of interest aren't in CA? Are you going to choose to go there regardless? I applied to med school as a CA resident and ultimately chose to go elsewhere. I'm considering several CA programs for residency but ultimately I'll go wherever I feel the best fit is. You don't have to do residency in CA to practice there as an attending (if you even want to... the economics of medicine in CA are pretty terrible)

I'd choose a less prestigious program in CA over a highly prestigious program outside of CA any day! Just as long as I can stay in CA as much as possible, I'm fine.
 
Speaking of things like ranking.....US news has a few other lists too. One list in particular caught my eye, Best Medical Schools - Whose Graduates Have the Most Debt. How can a school like Pritzker (hollllla!) have an average debt occurred of ~ 176K. I thought UChicago gave all their kittens a free ride? I'm a little confused (its cool though, Im blonde).
 
I'd choose a less prestigious program in CA over a highly prestigious program outside of CA any day! Just as long as I can stay in CA as much as possible, I'm fine.

so you're probably aware that there's only 15 spots in CA a year in radonc then, and 25% of those are in community hospitals that aren't affiliated with a med school, right? And that 70% of the residents in training in CA are MD/PhD?

Would you do IM -> heme-onc in CA rather than radonc in a different state? :confused:
 
If you work hard enough, even if you go to a caribbean school, you can still be matched into the residence you want.
 
If you work hard enough, even if you go to a caribbean school, you can still be matched into the residence you want.

It'd be nice if that were true... Glance at the match lists for top programs in competitive fields sometime, it's pretty interesting. For example, last time I looked (not sure if they have the 2010 ppl up yet) of the ~50 residents in rads at sf, ~75% were from top 25 schools and ~50 from top 10, clearly equal opportunity. The ones that weren't from the top 25 were almost all from CA schools.
 
I'd choose a less prestigious program in CA over a highly prestigious program outside of CA any day! Just as long as I can stay in CA as much as possible, I'm fine.

Why is it that most Californians are so afraid to see what it is like outside of Cali? Fine with me!!!

You do realize going to a top school outside of Cali WILL NOT hurt your chances in matching in to a top residency program.


FAIL!!!!!! :smuggrin:
 
Why is it that most Californians are so afraid to see what it is like outside of Cali? Fine with me!!!

You do realize going to a top school outside of Cali WILL NOT hurt your chances in matching in to a top residency program.


FAIL!!!!!! :smuggrin:

Haha I currently go to a Northeastern private school, so I know what it's like... IT'S TERRIBLE. Makes me never want to leave Cali again! I actually took Cali for granted until I went to New England for college.

@docelh: you're the idiot kthxbai
 
so you're probably aware that there's only 15 spots in CA a year in radonc then, and 25% of those are in community hospitals that aren't affiliated with a med school, right? And that 70% of the residents in training in CA are MD/PhD?

Would you do IM -> heme-onc in CA rather than radonc in a different state? :confused:

So let me get this straight: matching into rad/onc isn't hard as long as I have good board scores, solid grades, and research, so having a good med school reputation background is not important. But matching into rad/onc in California is so difficult that having a good med school reputation background isn't going to help enough for me to have a decent chance?

I was aware of the statistics of those matching into rad/onc in California. I guess if I decide I really want to do rad/onc, and I don't have a choice, I'll go somewhere else for the residency. But since I do want to do a Cali rad/onc residency, I guess med school rep might indeed make a difference.
 
Orgo at Harvard is the same as orgo at XYZ state? My TA happen to give us some Harvard problems for extra practice - are these the same types of problems given at XYZ state? (except maybe the last one which is pretty easy)

those look pretty damn similar to the ones i had at my state school
 
So let me get this straight: matching into rad/onc isn't hard as long as I have good board scores, solid grades, and research, so having a good med school reputation background is not important. But matching into rad/onc in California is so difficult that having a good med school reputation background isn't going to help enough for me to have a decent chance?

yes, there are 49 other states besides CA. Obviously that increases your chances of getting in. Also of the spots in CA, 7/15 of the spots are at Stanford, UCSF, UCSD, and UCLA, among the most competitive radonc programs, although location has a lot to do with that.

What I meant by good grades/solid board scores are top 1/3 and 240+, for the record, good research means 10+ research experiences with at least one oral presentation at a national meeting (astro or rsna) and one first author pub in a major journal.

I was aware of the statistics of those matching into rad/onc in California. I guess if I decide I really want to do rad/onc, and I don't have a choice, I'll go somewhere else for the residency. But since I do want to do a Cali rad/onc residency, I guess med school rep might indeed make a
difference.

there's no question it does for the top programs, and affects your chances of matching into the most competitive specialties (if marginally) but there's a gigantic difference between saying you want to do a specialty and saying you want to do it in a specific state, ESP the most competitive state in the us.
 
yes, there are 49 other states besides CA. Obviously that increases your chances of getting in. Also of the spots in CA, 7/15 of the spots are at Stanford, UCSF, UCSD, and UCLA, among the most competitive radonc programs, although location has a lot to do with that.

What I meant by good grades/solid board scores are top 1/3 and 240+, for the record, good research means 10+ research experiences with at least one oral presentation at a national meeting (astro or rsna) and one first author pub in a major journal.



there's no question it does for the top programs, and affects your chances of matching into the most competitive specialties (if marginally) but there's a gigantic difference between saying you want to do a specialty and saying you want to do it in a specific state, ESP the most competitive state in the us.

Give the guy a break already. I think he knows how competitive it will be, but he's just stating he REALLY wants to stay in CA and going to a top med school may help this. I see nothing wrong with his thinking. I've many classmates who chose NYC programs over better programs elsewhere in the country. To each their own...
 
Give the guy a break already. I think he knows how competitive it will be, but he's just stating he REALLY wants to stay in CA and going to a top med school may help this. I see nothing wrong with his thinking. I've many classmates who chose NYC programs over better programs elsewhere in the country. To each their own...

Yeah, that makes sense. I don't disagree, I just think there's the perception on SDN at times that people can get whatever they want and that everyone gets their first choice in the match :rolleyes:
 
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