Medical school rescinded due to unintentional failure to disclose

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Unownunown802

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Unless you guys want the details, I'm going to gloss over them - it's painful to relive. Long story short, there were disclosure issues regarding criminal background checks, some of which my family and I were not aware of, and it ended up with my medical school acceptance being rescinded. It was a combination of a lack of knowledge in criminal law by my parents when I was a juvenile and some immature actions on my part as an adult.

It's been a long week and a half, but the reality is I have to move on. I've considered alternative careers simply because to reapply and to go through all the hoops (retake MCAT due to expiration, and soon bc of 2015 MCAT, etc) was a little overwhelming to swallow. However, I cannot find myself being happy in any of the alternative careers. As difficult as it would, I would definitely want to reapply this next cycle (2015-2016) and hope for my success - I don't think it is feasible for me to apply any later than that, aka waiting 3 years + for everything to settle down and to show maturity through time is not a realistic option. Meanwhile, I will hopefully acquire a job in the healthcare field (or any job at all really to support myself and significant others).

My questions is this, to help better prepare me for future applications:

I have essentially been told that my AMCAS ID serves as a record line, and that any potential school that will accept me will be able to see that I was 'accepted' into a school 2 years prior. They will not see that it was rescinded, only that I did not attend that school. An explanation will be needed. Obviously I will have to disclose then, but I wish to do so in a manner in which it will express my reality and maturity rather than raise a damn red flag (or raise it too high, if anything). Any advice on this?

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I just read through your previous thread. Did the secondary for the school ask about juvenile offenses?
 
If they did, it did not ring any bell because I did not even consider the possibility of it, in all honesty.
 
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If they did, it did not ring any bell because I did not even consider the possibility of it, in all honesty.

So sorry OP about what happened. You need to be clear whether this was something the school did not ask about. (i.e. nowhere on the secondary was juvenile records requested). If that was the case, then I think you might have a chance someday with another allopathic school. If juvenile records were asked about, then that will be a little more complicated and harder to defend.

Also as a DO application will not have the same stigma attached to that, you might want to consider it. The worst they can do is say no. Be open and honest throughout the process. If they ask about allopathic schools or other medical schools applied, then disclose that and the reason for non-attendance.

Specifically I am curious what the immature actions as an adult you are referencing.
 
Doesn't matter what the school asked you. Doesn't even really matter what you did. You signed something that authorized the school to do a background check, that check wasn't clean, and the school found out about the issue from the background check instead of from you. Done.

Not knowing your background check was dirty is no excuse in a profession where you have to be licensed to practice. And you can't blame your parents when there's a part where you were an adult. It's all yours. You have to just own it.

I think using the next 3+ years to reflect and learn and be a productive member of society and make enough money to hire a lawyer to tease all this apart is what you do now.

Best of luck to you.
 
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That's horrible. Unfortunately, you're going to have to explain to everyone from now on. It is extremely unlikely that you can get in a U.S. med school, when every school has literally thousands of applicants without a criminal record. Medicine is a very conservative field. Meanwhile it is time to consider another career.
 
Doesn't matter what the school asked you. Doesn't even really matter what you did. You signed something that authorized the school to do a background check, that check wasn't clean, and the school found out about the issue from the background check instead of from you. Done.

Not knowing your background check was dirty is no excuse in a profession where you have to be licensed to practice. And you can't blame your parents when there's a part where you were an adult. It's all yours. You have to just own it.

I think using the next 3+ years to reflect and learn and be a productive member of society and make enough money to hire a lawyer to tease all this apart is what you do now.

Best of luck to you.

In no shape or form did I blame my parents. I merely stated the fact that we were all told that the record would not be there and took it as such. We took the words of the police seriously and did not bother following through. To insinuate that I'm throwing all of this on my parents really infuriates me, as you 1) clearly do not understand my situation and 2) really posted this just to flame rather than answer my thread post.
 
You totally blamed your parents. You aren't even telling the story and you still took the time to call them out. Why would you even mention them unless you're trying to minimize your role in whatever happened?

You asked a question and some people took the time to offer insights. Are you going to be a brat about everybody's comments or just pick the parent-blaming thing to be a brat about? There's tons more you could be offended by.
 
You totally blamed your parents. You aren't even telling the story and you still took the time to call them out. Why would you even mention them unless you're trying to minimize your role in whatever happened?

You asked a question and some people took the time to offer insights. Are you going to be a brat about everybody's comments or just pick the parent-blaming thing to be a brat about? There's tons more you could be offended by.
Read my old posts. You will understand the situation then. Don't resort to name calling in an attempt to seem superior when you really are just flaming.
 
Nobody cares about your depiction of events when there's an official record such as a transcript or MCAT score or criminal record.

As your future colleague, I care about whether you're good at taking responsibility for your actions. Whether you understand the consequences of your decisions. Whether you can work within a complicated and frequently ridiculous system. Whether you're a good communicator.

Or not.

As do med schools.

Be the grownup.
 
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Nobody cares about your depiction of events when there's an official record such as a transcript or MCAT score or criminal record.

As your future colleague, I care about whether you're good at taking responsibility for your actions. Whether you understand the consequences of your decisions. Whether you can work within a complicated and frequently ridiculous system. Whether you're a good communicator.

Or not.

As do med schools.

Be the grownup.
You really not helping, this is an unfortunate situation in which you have to sympathize rather than be a ass. You wouldn't do this if the OP was your family member you heartless beast
 
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You really not helping, this is an unfortunate situation in which you have to sympathize rather than be a ass. You wouldn't do this if the OP was your family member you heartless beast

DrMidlife speaks the unvarnished truth.

Almost every "Help! I've Been Robbed!!!" story on SDN has some kind of missing information which, upon further questioning, often reveals something quite different from the original presentation.
 
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I agree with the above poster. Although blunt, DrMidlife raises good points. Name-calling doesn't accomplish anything.
 
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You made a mistake with the last application/process, just don't do it again for this application process.

Fill out applications/secondaries truthfully, if you try leave things out thinking "They may not find this" - if they do, you are done again.

Without specifics I wonder how/if this would affect you getting a medical license. Most states do background checks when you apply for a license during your residency, and they have the right to refuse licenseship based on their rules/criteria.
 
You wouldn't do this if the OP was your family member
You bet I'd do this if it was my family member. I'd advise him/her to postpone med school and seriously consider doing something else, for legal consequences that show up on a background check. Or credit history problems. Or health problems. Or maturity problems. Or transcript problems.

I worry about my family members in the opposite direction. What screening do you want the physician who takes care of your grandmother to go through? Do you want it to be easy to get into med school?
 
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You bet I'd do this if it was my family member. I'd advise him/her to postpone med school and seriously consider doing something else, for legal consequences that show up on a background check. Or credit history problems. Or health problems. Or maturity problems. Or transcript problems.

I worry about my family members in the opposite direction. What screening do you want the physician who takes care of your grandmother to go through? Do you want it to be easy to get into med school?
Haha, that first sentence showed your age. :)

While I agree DrMidlife's words are harsh, his/her tone is not. It's just the fact of the situation. It sucks, and I don't doubt DrMidlife agrees it sucks and sympathizes with OP. However, the OP did not request sympathy, but what to do.

If the OP wanted people to tell him that it's not his fault, and we should shame the medical school, he should have asked that instead.

BTW, OP, really sucky situation. If I were in your shoes, I have found that it never hurts to ask things. So, while I doubt it will bear any fruit, I would email and ask to speak to admissions about your application and the rescinded acceptance. In person, things may swing your way. They always do with me, so hopefully you come off as a genuine, caring person who made a silly mistake.
 
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In what state do you live?
You can seal juvenile records when you reach 18 in most states.

Were you ever convicted?
In your previous thread it sounds like you were charged but never convicted. Did you see a judge? An arrest/charge should be like nothing ever happened.
 
Turns out I was never actually charged. Just arrested for a couple hours under the presumption of said charge. Apparently there's a difference.
Thank you type12 for saying what I was not able to articulate into words. I have pretty much ignored Mr. Midwife because I did not ask for a lecture, but on the next step. I did not ask for hindsight, but rather getting back on my two feet and moving on.
 
Pay very careful attention people, background checks reveal these things, expunged or not. Juvenile or not.

In what state do you live?
You can seal juvenile records when you reach 18 in most states.

Were you ever convicted?
In your previous thread it sounds like you were charged but never convicted. Did you see a judge? An arrest/charge should be like nothing ever happened.
 
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See, now, I did offer you constructive advice about what to do next, but your ass got chapped real darn fast. Here it is again.
I think using the next 3+ years to reflect and learn and be a productive member of society and make enough money to hire a lawyer to tease all this apart is what you do now.
 
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Pay very careful attention people, background checks reveal these things, expunged or not. Juvenile or not.
True. An FBI background check (requires fingerprint card) will uncover everything. This can be a hurdle down the line for licensure.

AMCAS uses a 3rd party private company for their background checks. Sealed juvenile records should not show up. Most states' expunged adult records will not show either (BUT in some places TX? CA? expungement results in "dismissal" of charges, so the court record will still show the NC/guilty plea with the dismissal coming much later).
 
I have a strong feeling that it was not the juvenile record but the adult record after AMCAS was submitted that sunk the OP.

I would like to believe this too. Did you not disclose the adult convictions either?

If the medical school took the acceptance away for the juvenile record (as explained in OPs previous thread), that is incredibly harsh; especially if the school didn't ask for juvenile records to be disclosed. I'm sorry this happened to you man.
 
You totally blamed your parents. You aren't even telling the story and you still took the time to call them out. Why would you even mention them unless you're trying to minimize your role in whatever happened?

You asked a question and some people took the time to offer insights. Are you going to be a brat about everybody's comments or just pick the parent-blaming thing to be a brat about? There's tons more you could be offended by.
Your post fits your avatar perfectly.
 
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I have a strong feeling that it was not the juvenile record but the adult record after AMCAS was submitted that sunk the OP.

Yeah, OP kinda ignored my question about that. OP, it's hard to give advice if you don't have all your cards on the table.
 
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I have a strong feeling that it was not the juvenile record but the adult record after AMCAS was submitted that sunk the OP.

I looked through his first thread a couple of days late - did he admit to adult offenses, then later edit them out? I don't remember seeing anything about adult offenses in the thread, and I'm wondering if by "immature actions...as an adult" he's trying to own up to the fact he should have worked this out before applying, instead of relying on his parents.

Unless you guys want the details, I'm going to gloss over them - it's painful to relive. Long story short, there were disclosure issues regarding criminal background checks, some of which my family and I were not aware of, and it ended up with my medical school acceptance being rescinded. It was a combination of a lack of knowledge in criminal law by my parents when I was a juvenile and some immature actions on my part as an adult.

It's been a long week and a half, but the reality is I have to move on. I've considered alternative careers simply because to reapply and to go through all the hoops (retake MCAT due to expiration, and soon bc of 2015 MCAT, etc) was a little overwhelming to swallow. However, I cannot find myself being happy in any of the alternative careers. As difficult as it would, I would definitely want to reapply this next cycle (2015-2016) and hope for my success - I don't think it is feasible for me to apply any later than that, aka waiting 3 years + for everything to settle down and to show maturity through time is not a realistic option. Meanwhile, I will hopefully acquire a job in the healthcare field (or any job at all really to support myself and significant others).

My questions is this, to help better prepare me for future applications:

I have essentially been told that my AMCAS ID serves as a record line, and that any potential school that will accept me will be able to see that I was 'accepted' into a school 2 years prior. They will not see that it was rescinded, only that I did not attend that school. An explanation will be needed. Obviously I will have to disclose then, but I wish to do so in a manner in which it will express my reality and maturity rather than raise a damn red flag (or raise it too high, if anything). Any advice on this?

OP, you have no chance of getting into medical school for at least several years, if this sticks. Med schools *will* dig this up, and *will* blacklist you. Your only hope at this point is to get the decision overturned. If the truth is that it was rescinded explicitly because you failed to report your juvenile affairs, and that said affairs explicitly did *not* need to be reported on primary OR secondary, then it appears to me you have a reasonable argument that the school is out of order. If you're leaving anything out or misrepresenting it though, we can't help you.

Do you think you could forward the email/scan the letter rescinding your offer (as well as the warning shot that they were onto you) to a senior SDN member in a private message? That is what people have done in the past, when they want people's informed advice without airing their dirty laundry to everybody.
 
Pattycake,
Thanks for your help. You are correct regarding your first statement, for the most part. Your second comment, though harsh, is understandably realistic as well.
There are some things I wish to remain private as it might reveal my identity, so I think I will work things about my own way for the time being. Thank you Pattycake, LizzyM, and a few others from this thread who have been straightforward to me.
 
Unless you guys want the details, I'm going to gloss over them - it's painful to relive. Long story short, there were disclosure issues regarding criminal background checks, some of which my family and I were not aware of, and it ended up with my medical school acceptance being rescinded. It was a combination of a lack of knowledge in criminal law by my parents when I was a juvenile and some immature actions on my part as an adult.

If "immature actions" were criminal in nature involving sex, drugs, violence or theft, then it is Game Over.
 
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If "immature actions" were criminal in nature involving sex, drugs, violence or theft, then it is Game Over.
Wow, Game Over in propercase, that's like, advanced game over.
tumblr_m814cpC1pe1qb1ou4.png
 
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If "immature actions" were criminal in nature involving sex, drugs, violence or theft, then it is Game Over.

Should I assume it's game over for me? I was charged (eventually dismissed/no convictions) of possessing a joint 12 years ago. nothing since. is med school out of the question?
 
Should I assume it's game over for me? I was charged (eventually dismissed/no convictions) of possessing a joint 12 years ago. nothing since. is med school out of the question?
No.
 
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What were you guilty of? Nothing. So you have nothing to report that relates to drugs.

Well, often times, these applications ask about charges. I have to answer yes if I'm being honest. Rather than say, oh I was charged but it was just a set up, I'm honest and upfront about it. I say although I was never convicted and the charges were eventually dismissed, I do own up to my behavior which lead to the charges in the first place, etc etc.
 
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Read carefully. Don't volunteer what isn't asked. Also review the AMCAS instructions as there are state laws restricting what you are required to report. Also were you underage at the time? Again, read carefully.
 
Yanks, for application purposes, like a week in politics, 12 years ago was an eternity. No one is going to care about your charge. We were all young and stupid once too.

Now, if it was 12 weeks ago, different story.

Should I assume it's game over for me? I was charged (eventually dismissed/no convictions) of possessing a joint 12 years ago. nothing since. is med school out of the question?
 
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To me, "disclosure issues" is a fancy way of saying you answered no to a question that you should have answered yes to. If you have dismissed/expunged charges, you can truthfully answer no on the AMCAS question regarding criminal history because they give you the option to say no. However, if you are asked this exact question again in a secondary (without the dismissed/expunged option), you have to say yes and explain yourself. They wouldn't ask the same question on the secondary that was already asked on the primary if they didn't expect full disclosure. However, now that you have had an acceptance rescinded, I think any MD school will be able to see that it happened. If you answered everything truthfully and they still rescinded your acceptance, then that is a different story and seems to be a bit unfair IMHO, because where were you supposed to report that offense? Do they expect you to volunteer information that you weren't asked about? If this is the case, it seems like a very tough situation for you OP.
 
To me, "disclosure issues" is a fancy way of saying you answered no to a question that you should have answered yes to. If you have dismissed/expunged charges, you can truthfully answer no on the AMCAS question regarding criminal history because they give you the option to say no. However, if you are asked this exact question again in a secondary (without the dismissed/expunged option), you have to say yes and explain yourself. They wouldn't ask the same question on the secondary that was already asked on the primary if they didn't expect full disclosure. However, now that you have had an acceptance rescinded, I think any MD school will be able to see that it happened. If you answered everything truthfully and they still rescinded your acceptance, then that is a different story and seems to be a bit unfair IMHO, because where were you supposed to report that offense? Do they expect you to volunteer information that you weren't asked about? If this is the case, it seems like a very tough situation for you OP.

I concur.
 
OP, I am so sorry about what happened.

But did the school's secondary ask anything along the lines of "have you EVER been charged with ANY crimes"?

To me, this is a fairly straight-forward issue. If the secondary did ask the above question and you answered no, then there's not much you can do. But if the secondary did NOT ask the above question, then you have an excellent case. I would consider hiring an attorney if it's the latter case.
 
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If they did, it did not ring any bell because I did not even consider the possibility of it, in all honesty.

Why can't you just check the secondary application and determine whether or not they asked for this particular issue?
 
RVU doesn't even just look at convictions, the background check looks at ARRESTS as well, because that is part of the state of CO requirements to be in a hospital as a provider. If I can't get a job after I graduate because of a crime, why would the school accept me? This is where the state to state thing poses a problem. If you have arrests, charges, or convictions of crimes, they can be found in a background check, expunged or not. My school has to vouch for all my speeding tickets (my only criminal offenses), and if someone has a DUI, certain rotations are off limits to them because some hospitals don't accept them... These are just facts of the system. The biggest thing is to realize that you have to look back and honestly disclose ANYTHING that might be found.
 
RVU doesn't even just look at convictions, the background check looks at ARRESTS as well, because that is part of the state of CO requirements to be in a hospital as a provider. If I can't get a job after I graduate because of a crime, why would the school accept me? This is where the state to state thing poses a problem. If you have arrests, charges, or convictions of crimes, they can be found in a background check, expunged or not. My school has to vouch for all my speeding tickets (my only criminal offenses), and if someone has a DUI, certain rotations are off limits to them because some hospitals don't accept them... These are just facts of the system. The biggest thing is to realize that you have to look back and honestly disclose ANYTHING that might be found.

The only problem is that IF the secondary application did NOT ask for charges or arrests, but these were later found on a background check, the school really shouldn't rescind its acceptance. You can't fault someone for not reporting information that was NEVER requested.
 
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OP, imo, the best bet for you is to hire a reputable attorney, who is able to address this, along with other important/relevannt issues. Juvie records and expungements can stand closed, but they can only be used one time, I believe. I am not 100% sure, and different states do things differently. But I don't remember you said you went through any process to expunge the arrest, so. . . Listen, pay the money and get the advice of a good attorney that knows about these sort of things, and who has the ability to research and advise you with state issues kept in mind. The first set of legalities you have know about is the state in which the arrests transpired. If you seek to have the arrests expunged, I think this can take a while--juvenile issues notwithstanding. Recording federally-based inquiry, that is something you have to discuss in full, and the lawyer might have to go the extra mile on researching this.

Why in the world you put this on a message board, as complicated as your situation is (since there was a second arrest) I believe, is beyond me. Arrests are different obviously from convictions. You can be arrested for anything, but if charges are dropped or if there is no conviction, that is quite different, b/c you were not found guilty of anything, or the charge by the other persons (your parents) was taken away and a judge accepted the dismissal of the charge. But neither anyone else nor I can give you sound, confidential legal advice. I mean a lawyer here would be better than me, b/c I have not attended law school and am not qualified to advise you--except to say, get a sound attorney. But even then she or he would be limited, unless you really want to put your whole identity and so forth on a message board--evening pming someone. . . Geez. There is no legally recognized agreement of confidentiality on a message board--even if pming is used. And how would you assess their ability and soundness in advising you regarding your specifics and the law? That's why you find a reputable attorney, get references, and make a consultation with them. You don't have to retain them until you research and speak with them. You will have to pay for their time; b/c generally, that is how they charge.

These kinds of questions here are just as bad as people asking for physicians here to diagnose their ailment or physical condition. Now, come on. I betcha you knew before you even posted that you'd get a lot of opinions, but you wouldn't be able to know how reliable and applicable they would be to your situation? There is no solid, free, personal legal or medical advice on SDN or the Internet. You'd have to get down with the nitty, gritty specifics. And other peoples cases/situations are different.

Who would ever post such things expecting best practices re: their personal situation on an Internet forum? People have a little bit of knowledge, and then they think they can give you the whole low down on your situation. You have to eat the time, research, and money to do this for you. Maybe ask your parents to support and help, if they will and can. Sounds like a goofy adolescent kind of episode colliding with conflicting cultural issues. If it was truly as benign as you say, a solid lawyer should know the process or be able to further investigate, given all the details.

What would they do with arrests for PETA demonstrations or the like? Requiring arrest records, unless there is some pattern, is problematic for employers or schools. Convictions are a different order of magnitude. They can certainly ask about arrests; but they might end up opening a can of worms for themselves, legally--regardless of what their wording and paperwork says about their rights to inquiry. Being arrested doesn't make anyone a criminal necessarily. For the love of Oprah!

Depending on your details, it might be at least a year or so until you can effectively sort this out from a legal protection perspective.
Ask your lawyer to get the specifics re: the revocation of your acceptance--to the letter. He can call or meet or correspond with them. Seems like a sucky situation. The best to you.

(Corrected)
 
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That's horrible. Unfortunately, you're going to have to explain to everyone from now on. It is extremely unlikely that you can get in a U.S. med school, when every school has literally thousands of applicants without a criminal record. Medicine is a very conservative field. Meanwhile it is time to consider another career.

This is ignorant. I have a criminal history, disclosed it on my application, I had numerous interviews and got in to my top choice. Stop spreading false info.
 
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@crossfit4lyfe

I think you are misunderstanding what this thread is about. Criminal records will absolutely NOT keep someone out of medical school, as long as the crimes are minor and that the applicant truthfully discloses the incident(s) whenever asked. No one is denying this crucial fact.

But the problem with the OP and the rescinding of his application has to do with that fact that the OP did not seem to answer truthfully on a secondary question regarding criminal backgrounds. From what the OP has said, he was charged with a crime as a juvenile, but he never disclosed this charge on the application, which supposedly asked for charges as well as convictions.

Still, I think rescinding an acceptance is too extreme of a move, especially considering the mitigating circumstances in the OP's situation.
 
@crossfit4lyfe

I think you are misunderstanding what this thread is about. Criminal records will absolutely NOT keep someone out of medical school, as long as the crimes are minor and that the applicant truthfully discloses the incident(s) whenever asked. No one is denying this crucial fact.

But the problem with the OP and the rescinding of his application has to do with that fact that the OP did not seem to answer truthfully on a secondary question regarding criminal backgrounds. From what the OP has said, he was charged with a crime as a juvenile, but he never disclosed this charge on the application, which supposedly asked for charges as well as convictions.

Still, I think rescinding an acceptance is too extreme of a move, especially considering the mitigating circumstances in the OP's situation.

I understand that is what this post is about, but I was responding to the specific post that I quoted.

The person said it's unlikely a person with a criminal record will get into med school since thousands of people applying do not, why would they choose someone with a record.
 
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I understand that is what this post is about, but I was responding to the specific post that I quoted.

The person said it's unlikely a person with a criminal record will get into med school since thousands of people applying do not, why would they choose someone with a record.

My bad!

But you are definitely right...a criminal record will not keep someone out of medical school if the record is relatively minor and the person does a good job explaining what happened. Congrats on your acceptance, btw!
 
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Mine was not necessarily "minor"- was actually kind of serious, but it was far enough in the past and I changed the direction of my life since then! But thank you! Congrats to you too.
 
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