Medical Schools - Do We Really Have Choice?

[Silverfalcon]

This is mostly about the confusion that I'm going through, so hopefully this isn't a cliche topic (not too much that is). I'm a junior at undergrad now, done with all the pre-reqs, already took MCAT (will find the result in about a week), did some shadowing and volunteering in hospital, and got decent levels of extracurriculars. As everyone knows, since it's the junior year, there's already word about applying in the next summer (e.g. summer between junior and senior year).

I'm somewhat not so sure about the whole application process though. Like.. I'm not one of those people who chose to become pre-med because "I've always wanted to become a doctor since I was ** years old" (sorry for those who believe this way, but I just have somewhat dislike towards people who say that they want to be a doctor since like 8 years old). I chose to pursue medicine because I wanted to help people around me due to a personal event during a high school athletic game. So since then, I've just come forward, doing work necessary, and trying to do some research (nothing really firm to call a "research" though) to enhance my application. The idea of not pursuing medicine has never come to me seriously.

But recently, the issue of money has worried me. I guess that I'm not sure if I really have choice to pursue medicine. I mean, yes, I know that most medical students take loans, but my feeling is that they are usually from financially stable background. I'm not - I'm one of those students who was only able to go to college in first place because of strong academics and activities.

Lately, I've been thinking about pharmacology research, a PhD program that is. It ties up a lot of things I learned in pre-reqs and courses I'm taking now, and even though I won't actually get a research experience until next summer, I like the idea of knowing how drug can affect the body than just telling someone to take the drug because it's known to have certain effects. But more importantly, as in other grad school programs, if admitted, I'll receive funding to go and stipend to go along with it. Then once I graduate, I can work in a lab, a drug company, or even in academic settings.

I haven't even really discussed with anyone except one friend (who is also pre-med and applying), who gave me a funny look today that I'm considering research instead of medicine. This is why I'm posting on SDN - because I know that people around me are so hardcore driven medicine that if you choose to go something different, you are basically giving up medicine for an easier route and I don't want to hear that from everyone I see.

Am I just being crazy? I don't know... Even when I was studying for MCAT this summer, I felt like medicine was really for me. But when I actually got around the idea of applying and how scholarships are extremely rare in medical school levels (except for like MSTP which I am not obviously eligible), it feels like a reality check. There are many people who can become doctors in the world... but obviously not everyone can.. Right?

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[IvyHopeful20]

If you want to be a doctor, you'll get loans. I'm from a poor background, and I won't have any problems if I need (though I'm going for MD/PhD). You'll be fine - do it if you really want to be a doctor. Your financial background should not be what's keeping you.

 

[Barcu]

If you want to be a doctor, you'll get loans. I'm from a poor background, and I won't have any problems if I need (though I'm going for MD/PhD). You'll be fine - do it if you really want to be a doctor. Your financial background should not be what's keeping you.

Agreed. The money should not be the issue. You can find programs to pay for school, like the military or National Health Service, which is free med school plus a monthly stipend. Or, you take on debts. With physician salaries, these debts are large but they appear to be pretty manageable. How manageable depends on your specialty of course.

The real issue here is whether you want to pursue med or grad school. I looked into grad school for a while, and the stipend seems real nice. But, the job security is not nearly as good as medicine and neither is the salary (in most cases).

If you are trying to decide between grad school and med school, take time to come to the right decision. However, if it is mostly about the money, med school is the clear option because it sounds like that's the route you really want to go in.

 

[NickNaylor]

If you're truly interested in research and incorporating research significantly in your future career, consider MSTP programs. Note, though, that the money shouldn't be the reason for going into those.

 

[Richardh]

to silverfalcon-i would recommend you to do more research experience in pharmacology since you've already done some volunteer work in the medical field. by having both experience you can then decide which path is best for you. and as already mentioned money shouldn't be prohibiting you from entering medicine if that's your passion you should go for it! there are many support systems available through outside help, school-sponsored funds, government assistance, and so forth

 

[MJM09]

Silverfalcon- this always sounds crazy I know, but money really isn't a factor when it comes to medical school.
I come from a very poor family who is able to provide no financial support, and I have no appreciable savings to put towards school. I'm currently receiving a few small scholarships (I think for a total of $5,000 a year or so... not very much in the grand scheme of things), but the rest is all loans for me. I had no trouble getting the loans, and met with a financial aid counselor here about the process, who walked me through it and was very reassuring. I had previously been very stressed about this issue and looked at all kinds of options- I went through the whole Air Force HPSP and was about ready to "sign the dotted line" when I realized the only reason I was doing the program was for the finances, which believe me, is not the right reason to do a program like that. I declined the program and took out the loans. In most branches of medicine, you shouldn't have any difficulty paying back your loans in the long-run. If you go into a rural/underserved setting, there are often subsidies to help pay back your loans since your salary would likely not be as high. The bottom line is: No, doctors may not make as much in the future as they do now, and yes, med school does keep getting more expensive, but it will all balance out and if you get into medical school and it is what you want to do, money shouldn't be a deciding factor.

 

[kevster2001]

Unless you have a lot of kids and/or need to support your parents, the loans you are offered in med schools will be more than enough to cover your day to day expenses, especially if you live frugally.

But from a larger financial perspective, I would advise against going to med school in carib since they cost an arm and a leg and you're fighting a huge uphill battle to match into anything that might help you recoup those costs

 

[fizzgig]

i don't see why mstp is something you wouldn't be eligible for. but read about the programs because their focus may not be what you want (some of them are not meant to train a clinical doctor + researcher as you might assume... they are meant to train primary researchers who have more freedom and authority to organize/writegrants/get data from the clinical side of things).

also, if you have doubts, definitely go get your research experience. make sure this is what you really want. but if it is, don't appease your money nervous breakdown by doing something else that you think might 'suffice'. research is great, but it is not going to be 'like medicine' or 'right there alongside medicine' - it's a whole different job. if you really want to do med, you'll just end up with a grad degree later - not in debt, yes, which is great - headed for med school in a different year. just feel it out and don't let the giant debt monster be the ONE thing that turns you away.

 

[mvenus929]

But recently, the issue of money has worried me. I guess that I'm not sure if I really have choice to pursue medicine. I mean, yes, I know that most medical students take loans, but my feeling is that they are usually from financially stable background. I'm not - I'm one of those students who was only able to go to college in first place because of strong academics and activities.

Most of my college education was paid for by scholarships. My mom paid a very small portion out of pocket (something like 5K over the three years I was in college). I did another program after college and took out loans for it. I managed to pay off those loans with the job that I got, and saved up a very small amount that I'm going to use to travel during winter break and next summer. Otherwise, I pulled out loans. My school is very generous, though... I got a 17K grant that significantly cut down on my costs. Still, I will graduate with a couple hundred thousand dollars in loans. (The interest is already making me cringe. I've been in school a month and I've already gotten $75 in interest tagged on to my account).

Federal loans, with the exception of Grad Plus loans (which you would want to avoid taking out) are credit blind... they don't care about your financial background. Of course, the downside to that is that the loans will never go away... even if you die.

You're right... not everyone can become a physician. But money is not the limiting factor. Only like 45% of applicants in any given year get in to medical school... so less than half of those who try actually get in.

If you want to do pharmacology or some other graduate program, go for it. But money should not be your motivation one way or the other. You will be able to get loans to finance your education, and you will be able to pay them back with your salary as a physician.

 

[tweek125]

Federal loans, with the exception of Grad Plus loans (which you would want to avoid taking out) are credit blind... they don't care about your financial background. Of course, the downside to that is that the loans will never go away... even if you die.

Federal loans are discharged upon death. they don't pass to your family members like privatized loans. at least the federal ones i'm familiar with for financial aid are like this. but i'm not a banker though.

 

[QuizzicalApe]

I'm paying for medical school with magical FutureBucks (tm), as yet unearned.

 

[Silverfalcon]

to silverfalcon-i would recommend you to do more research experience in pharmacology since you've already done some volunteer work in the medical field. by having both experience you can then decide which path is best for you. and as already mentioned money shouldn't be prohibiting you from entering medicine if that's your passion you should go for it! there are many support systems available through outside help, school-sponsored funds, government assistance, and so forth

Definitely. I'm already looking into SURP in Pharmacology and trying to see if I can get one.

Thanks everybody for the responses. I agree with fizzgig that MSTP is not really for me since based on what I read, it does seem to be more into research than clinical areas. It seems like they don't want people who can't afford medical schools to jump in MSTP without having a true interest in research.

I think you guys are right about what you say. Money shouldn't be an issue as long as that's what I want to do. It is - but with costs of education rising so much each year, I guess the fear of not being able to afford it is a bit hard to overcome. For me at least, if I go into research, I'm pretty sure that I won't become that non-trad who applies to medical schools later. It's not like I'm thinking about making a U-turn in the future back to medicine.

What's everyone's thoughts on people getting Master's and then applying to med schools? Obviously, for me, a part of reason on this route would be to gain more experiences in research or academics (probably former more if I can) since as I said before, I'll have only one summer of research if I apply on next July/August. This route too, however, makes me wonder if having that extra year or two of research or experience does make a difference or not.

 

[pianola]

You CAN be a doctor regardless of your financial situation - loans are generally credit-blind as someone above noted.

You don't want a bank to own your soul, though. So don't just dismiss the cost of your medical education because you WILL pay it back, one way or the other. Unless you are starting medical school at age 89, or going to flee the country in 5 years, or have some plans of getting hit by a bus in the next few years you WILL pay it back.

Consider ways of keeping your costs down. My last roommate had a cost of living (not including tuition) of nearly $40,000 a year. Mine was about $12,000 last year. You can see kind of a big difference there.

Just be smart. Going to medical school is: (1) not a time to buy a brand new car (2) not a time to find an apartment where you have to pay $2000 a month* (3) not the time to eat out every day (4) not the time to take expensive vacations around the world.

Look into scholarships and scholarship programs.

*obv it's diff if you live in NY or maybe SF or a few other select places in the country

 

[pianola]

What's everyone's thoughts on people getting Master's and then applying to med schools? Obviously, for me, a part of reason on this route would be to gain more experiences in research or academics (probably former more if I can) since as I said before, I'll have only one summer of research if I apply on next July/August. This route too, however, makes me wonder if having that extra year or two of research or experience does make a difference or not.

I did a master's before applying to medical school - it made a difference for me, but my background wasn't really in science. So I was able to get in a LOT of experiences I hadn't - like research, more upper level science courses, time to do volunteering, and fulfill the one pre-req I hadn't taken.

Try to find a master's program that will waive tuition and pay your expenses. If possible.

 

[gravitywave]

i hear people in here talking about how OP should get more research experience. to me, the issue sounds more like OP is worried about his/her commitment level to medicine relative to the likely debt load, which is very smart. every pre med should be taking stock of the financial issue in this day and age.

i suggest OP get more direct clinical experience to better test suitability for a medical career. interacting with patients is the bread and butter of this work, and also the biggest difference between a research career and medicine. OP, how hands-on do you want to be?

 

[Silverfalcon]

i hear people in here talking about how OP should get more research experience. to me, the issue sounds more like OP is worried about his/her commitment level to medicine relative to the likely debt load, which is very smart. every pre med should be taking stock of the financial issue in this day and age.

i suggest OP get more direct clinical experience to better test suitability for a medical career. interacting with patients is the bread and butter of this work, and also the biggest difference between a research career and medicine. OP, how hands-on do you want to be?

I know that based on my skills with hands-on things in daily life, I would be more inclined for internal medicine rather than say, a general surgeon. This past summer, I shadowed a podiatrist for two days (I know, podiatrists are DPM so they are not MD), and while I briefly considered that profession as an alternate method, I soon threw it out because it's all hands-on materials.

Like, I can survive four years of medical schools for hands-on, but I do not think I'm the most deft person that you want to see as a doctor. It's just the way I'm born with, haha.

 

[45408]

Like.. I'm not one of those people who chose to become pre-med because "I've always wanted to become a doctor since I was ** years old" (sorry for those who believe this way, but I just have somewhat dislike towards people who say that they want to be a doctor since like 8 years old). I chose to pursue medicine because I wanted to help people around me due to a personal event during a high school athletic game.

Oh good, that's much less cliche.

 

[gravitywave]

Like, I can survive four years of medical schools for hands-on, but I do not think I'm the most deft person that you want to see as a doctor. It's just the way I'm born with, haha.

i wasn't so much referring to manual dexterity as i was the difference between research and medicine. both careers help patients, but research does so in a more indirect fashion. doctors who practice are dealing directly with patients. by "hands-on" i meant your preference for involvement. more clinical time might help to sharpen that preference and clarify things for you.