undergrad13

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I was thinking of applying to the premed for the summer of 2018.
I was wondering I mean MUA is cheapest out of all Caribbean schools and the transition to MD program from premed is smooth. Is it not a good choice? Their admission officer and website shows actual students who got into specialty residencies in the states. What's a good choice for this option? They are accredited by the California. If I could hear former students from mua or the likes, then that would be awesome. Anybody??
 

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GOOD GOD man do not go to MUA. You are asking for trouble. Read my very first post and it will tell you all you need to know. Straight A students in my class did not even make it to the fifth and final term.
 
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GOOD GOD man do not go to MUA. You are asking for trouble. Read my very first post and it will tell you all you need to know. Straight A students in my class did not even make it to the fifth and final term.
I'm guessing you are a former student there?
Why do they fail? I heard the curriculum has been changed in 2016. So what do you think about the new one?
 
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I'm guessing you are a former student there?
Why do they fail? I heard the curriculum has been changed in 2016. So what do you think about the new one?
As I said, read my first post and it should tell you all you need to know about MUA and the "new" curriculum.

If you must go to the Caribbean, go to SGU. All these other schools exist primarily to take your money and offer you the absolute slimmest chance that you will actually practice as an MD. MUA will be the biggest mistake of your life if you go there and I mean that very sincerely.
 
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As I said, read my first post and it should tell you all you need to know about MUA and the "new" curriculum.

If you must go to the Caribbean, go to SGU. All these other schools exist primarily to take your money and offer you the absolute slimmest chance that you will actually practice as an MD. MUA will be the biggest mistake of your life if you go there and I mean that very sincerely.
Hey. I tried searching for your first post and I could not find it, maybe due to my crappy phone. But I'm really interested in what you have to say, you potentially could save my future. I spoke with the school and some students also say it's a smooth process to get in and out. The residency is difficult but what carib. School isn't.
So what's the issue? Is it the curriculum failing you? Is it that the material is too hard and too much for students that they end up dropping?
We're you a student there?

Please help
 

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Hey. I tried searching for your first post and I could not find it, maybe due to my crappy phone. But I'm really interested in what you have to say, you potentially could save my future. I spoke with the school and some students also say it's a smooth process to get in and out. The residency is difficult but what carib. School isn't.
So what's the issue? Is it the curriculum failing you? Is it that the material is too hard and too much for students that they end up dropping?
We're you a student there?

Please help
List your stats or rough stats and then we can have a better discussion. Regardless, I am going to encourage you to go elsewhere.
 
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I have a 3.5/3.6ish GPA. I'm a nontraditional. Degree in psych/linguistics. I didn't take any mcat. I have not taken the preqs but i understand orgo and biochem (nevermore generals Chem and bio). I took some practice exams in the mcat an averaged out like a 498. So im not having issues with the sciences I just wish to start medical right away. I'm tired of these commands from med schools to take prereqs. And then there is an off year. I can't wait 2 years to start medical school it's insane.
 

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Here's is aformerstudent long-winded, rambling, stream-of-consicious (and potentially racist) post about MUA:

Medical University of the Americas

And, I quote...

Most of the professors speak with a heavy accent and worse, they write the exam questions in broken English or use phraseology that you may not be accustomed to as an American or Canadian citizen. You might not think that is a big deal but it is a huge deal in practice and when you encounter it on a daily basis.
Care to clarify yourself? You do know that rougly 25% of all practicing physicians in the U.S. are foreign-trained, many of whom have accents that you would (apparently unfortunately for you) have to "encounter", right?

-Skip
 
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Here's is aformerstudent long-winded, rambling, stream-of-consicious (and potentially racist) post about MUA:

Medical University of the Americas

And, I quote...

Most of the professors speak with a heavy accent and worse, they write the exam questions in broken English or use phraseology that you may not be accustomed to as an American or Canadian citizen. You might not think that is a big deal but it is a huge deal in practice and when you encounter it on a daily basis.
Care to clarify yourself? You do know that rougly 25% of all practicing physicians in the U.S. are foreign-trained, many of whom have accents that you would (apparently unfortunately for you) have to "encounter", right?

-Skip
Lol. That's funny.
Hey are you a student at MUA? You think you can help me?
 

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Here's is aformerstudent long-winded, rambling, stream-of-consicious (and potentially racist) post about MUA:

Medical University of the Americas

And, I quote...

Most of the professors speak with a heavy accent and worse, they write the exam questions in broken English or use phraseology that you may not be accustomed to as an American or Canadian citizen. You might not think that is a big deal but it is a huge deal in practice and when you encounter it on a daily basis.
Care to clarify yourself? You do know that rougly 25% of all practicing physicians in the U.S. are foreign-trained, many of whom have accents that you would (apparently unfortunately for you) have to "encounter", right?

-Skip
Racism? Are you ill?
 

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I have a 3.5/3.6ish GPA. I'm a nontraditional. Degree in psych/linguistics. I didn't take any mcat. I have not taken the preqs but i understand orgo and biochem (nevermore generals Chem and bio). I took some practice exams in the mcat an averaged out like a 498. So im not having issues with the sciences I just wish to start medical right away. I'm tired of these commands from med schools to take prereqs. And then there is an off year. I can't wait 2 years to start medical school it's insane.
I apologize that the thread was hijacked but unfortunately that's how things work on this site. To answer your question, I don't feel you would be a good candidate for that school. I say this because you have to factor in how their program works. If you read my post you will see that this school has mandatory attendance which is a killer. If you are not a strait-A student, that will guaranteed pose a problem because you will guaranteed not learn in class. Now that the school has California approval, that may change but my understanding is Saba still has a mandatory attendance policy and both of these schools have the same curriculum.

There are checkpoints at MUA that will trip a lot of people up. You have a basic sciences curriculum with mandatory attendance which is bad enough as it is, you have a variety of NBME shelf exams during each of the five terms; some which count for half your grade that can potentially screw you over even if you are passing the class. You have to pass 3/4 NBMW shelf exams during the fifth term BEFORE you can sit for the comp shelf, you have a bull**** paper you have to get approved AFTER passing the comp shelf BEFORE taking STEP 1 which makes you wonder if that "paper" is nothing more than a gatekeeper. On top of that, MUA students apparently don't have the greatest rep during clinicals. We got punished in basic sciences with more work because apparently our third years don't know ****.

Who am I to stop you. I'm just saying that MUA opened my eyes to the Caribbean med school business and it wasn't for me. I wasn't that desperate to become a doctor. Regardless, I would say anybody going to MUA specifically is taking a giant risk.
 

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Racism? Are you ill?
Did you or did you not say those things? I'm not putting words in your mouth. You wrote that. You apparently have a significant problem with 1/4th of the physicians practicing in this country who, I'll interpret what you said if I may, might not speak English to your personal standards.

Racist? Maybe. Certainly you clearly have difficulty embracing multiculturalism. Shame on you.

(You said it. Are you now denying that? Or, are you now going to go back and edit your post... again?)

-Skip
 
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I apologize that the thread was hijacked but unfortunately that's how things work on this site. To answer your question, I don't feel you would be a good candidate for that school. I say this because you have to factor in how their program works. If you read my post you will see that this school has mandatory attendance which is a killer. If you are not a strait-A student, that will guaranteed pose a problem because you will guaranteed not learn in class. Now that the school has California approval, that may change but my understanding is Saba still has a mandatory attendance policy and both of these schools have the same curriculum.

There are checkpoints at MUA that will trip a lot of people up. You have a basic sciences curriculum with mandatory attendance which is bad enough as it is, you have a variety of NBME shelf exams during each of the five terms; some which count for half your grade that can potentially screw you over even if you are passing the class. You have to pass 3/4 NBMW shelf exams during the fifth term BEFORE you can sit for the comp shelf, you have a bull**** paper you have to get approved AFTER passing the comp shelf BEFORE taking STEP 1 which makes you wonder if that "paper" is nothing more than a gatekeeper. On top of that, MUA students apparently don't have the greatest rep during clinicals. We got punished in basic sciences with more work because apparently our third years don't know ****.

Who am I to stop you. I'm just saying that MUA opened my eyes to the Caribbean med school business and it wasn't for me. I wasn't that desperate to become a doctor. Regardless, I would say anybody going to MUA specifically is taking a giant risk.
You say I wouldn't Be A good candidate. Is it because of my grades too low?

I will think about this. I'm sure you're right about this. It's no reason Caribbean schools get bad rep. I will just go through the Atlantic bridge and take the MCAT ASAP.

Do you know of schools in USA, Ireland, Canada, and UK that accept students with good MCAT scores and GPA but no science preqs?
 
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You say I wouldn't Be A good candidate. Is it because of my grades too low?

I will think about this. I'm sure you're right about this. It's no reason Caribbean schools get bad rep. I will just go through the Atlantic bridge and take the MCAT ASAP.

Do you know of schools in USA, Ireland, Canada, and UK that accept students with good MCAT scores and GPA but no science preqs?
Non-science major and if you're scoring low on a practice MCAT then MUA will not be a good fit as that school has more standardized exams than a lot of other schools. The irony with all of this is that the student that would be a good fit for MUA should be in a US or Canadian program.

Having gone down that route myself and having friends who are both succeeding and struggling, I would think long and hard why you wanted to go to MUA in the first place.

Good luck.
 
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Non-science major and if you're scoring low on a practice MCAT then MUA will not be a good fit as that school has more standardized exams than a lot of other schools. The irony with all of this is that the student that would be a good fit for MUA should be in a US or Canadian program.

Having gone down that route myself and having friends who are both succeeding and struggling, I would think long and hard why you wanted to go to MUA in the first place.

Good luck.
I spoke with the admission officer. She said that as long as my GPA is good I would be a good candidate for the premed program. And If I did well in that then I would be great to smoothly transition into the MD program.
She told me that I would need to take the mat before I got into the MD program. Scoring average and above would be great.

That's what interested me
 

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I spoke with the admission officer. She said that as long as my GPA is good I would be a good candidate for the premed program. And If I did well in that then I would be great to smoothly transition into the MD program.
She told me that I would need to take the mat before I got into the MD program. Scoring average and above would be great.

That's what interested me
Lol, was her name Sarah? What else did she tell you?
 
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Lol!

Do not go to MUA my friend. I am saving you a ****load of money.
I'll take that advice. I'm gonna take that mcat soon once I average higher points

Do you know of any programs in USA Canada that take students without preqs but fine mcat scores
 

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I'll take that advice. I'm gonna take that mcat soon once I average higher points

Do you know of any programs in USA Canada that take students without preqs but fine mcat scores
My advice is this man. It's honest advice...

Do not take any shortcuts down this route. Also, if you are Canadian just be warned that things are going to be more stringent for you so tread cautiously.

BTW, how are you taking the MCAT without taking your pre-req's?

Your approach already does not sound right.
 
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My advice is this man. It's honest advice...

Do not take any shortcuts down this route. Also, if you are Canadian just be warned that things are going to be more stringent for you so tread cautiously.

BTW, how are you taking the MCAT without taking your pre-req's?

Your approach already does not sound right.
I already know the material. I averaged on practice mcat with 498. That pretty good considering I didn't take preqs. So as of now I'm studying still
 

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I already know the material. I averaged on practice mcat with 498. That pretty good considering I didn't take preqs. So as of now I'm studying still
If you want to go to MUA, I can't stop you. It's an opportunity and most people would not throw the opportunity away. Even though I'm telling you not to go there, if you can go there with the attitude that you will do ABSOLUTELY EVERYTHING needed to pass that program, then that's a different story but that's really easier said than done and I've seen many students come in with that attitude and end up failing in the end. That's where the risk comes from.

BTW, were you Canadian? If you're Canadian, I would definitely tell you not to go.
 
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If you want to go to MUA, I can't stop you. It's an opportunity and most people would not throw the opportunity away. Even though I'm telling you not to go there, if you can go there with the attitude that you will do ABSOLUTELY EVERYTHING needed to pass that program, then that's a different story but that's really easier said than done and I've seen many students come in with that attitude and end up failing in the end. That's where the risk comes from.

BTW, were you Canadian? If you're Canadian, I would definitely tell you not to go.
No I'm not Canadian.
I'M from (Murica)
 
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Keep us posted if you end up going.
I will buddy. I appreciate your advice.
Seeing that you went there. I will take this advice. It's really a big risk.

Before I thought of mua I was thinking if DO schools but the DO degree isn't as prestigious and famous as the MD degree outside USA. I was thinking of working in africa, middle east and southeast Asia once I finish school but having a DO wouldn't be great choice. What do you think about DO?
 

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Before I thought of mua I was thinking if DO schools but the DO degree isn't as prestigious and famous as the MD degree outside USA. I was thinking of working in africa, middle east and southeast Asia once I finish school but having a DO wouldn't be great choice. What do you think about DO?
MSF considers DO and MD equivalent degrees.
If you are considering working with such an aid agency, there is no problem serving in the regions listed as a DO.
Also see:
https://www.westernu.edu/bin/ime/international-practice-rights.pdf
 

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I was thinking of applying to the premed for the summer of 2018.
I was wondering I mean MUA is cheapest out of all Caribbean schools and the transition to MD program from premed is smooth. Is it not a good choice? Their admission officer and website shows actual students who got into specialty residencies in the states. What's a good choice for this option? They are accredited by the California. If I could hear former students from mua or the likes, then that would be awesome. Anybody??
Good choice if you like the idea of never becoming a doctor, being deeply in debt, and driving for Uber. Here's why:

As long as you have a pulse and can write an up-front tuition check, chances are excellent of getting accepted.

The point here isn't that there are successful Carib grads. The point is how many additional obstacles to success you face by going to a Carib school.


Quoting the wise gyngyn: "The pool of US applicants from the Caribbean is viewed differently by Program Directors. The DDx for a Caribbean grad is pretty off-putting: bad judgment, bad advice, egotism, gullibility, overbearing parents, inability to delay gratification, IA's, legal problems, weak research skills, high risk behavior. This is not to say that all of them still have the quality that drew them into this situation. There is just no way to know which ones they are. Some PD's are in a position where they need to, or can afford to take risks too! So, some do get interviews.


Bad grades and scores are the least of the deficits from a PD's standpoint. A strong academic showing in a Caribbean medical school does not erase this stigma. It fact it increases the perception that the reason for the choice was on the above-mentioned list!


Just about everyone from a Caribbean school has one or more of these problems and PDs know it. That's why their grads are the last choice even with a high Step 1 score.


There was a time when folks whose only flaw was being a late bloomer went Carib, but those days are gone. There are a number of US med schools that will reward reinvention.

It's likely you'll be in the bottom half or two thirds of the class that gets dismissed before Step 1. The business plan of a Carib school depends on the majority of the class not needing to be supported in clinical rotations. They literally can't place all 250+ of the starting class at clinical sites (educational malpractice, really. If this happened at a US school, they be shut down by LCME or COCA, and sued.

The Carib (and other offshore) schools have very tenuous, very expensive, very controversial relationships with a very small number of US clinical sites. You may think you can just ask to do your clinical rotations at a site near home. Nope. You may think you don't have to worry about this stuff. Wrong.

And let's say you get through med school in the Carib and get what you need out of the various clinical rotation scenarios. Then you are in the match gamble. I don't need to say a word about this - you can find everything you need to know at nrmp.org.

You really need to talk to people who made it through Carib threshing machine into residency (like Skip Intro or mikkus) , and hear the story from them. How many people were in their class at the start, how many are in it now? How long did it take to get a residency, and how did they handle the gap year(s) and their student loans? How many residencies did they apply to, how many interviews did they get, and were any of the programs on their match list anything like what they wanted?

A little light reading:

https://milliondollarmistake.wordpress.com/

http://www.tameersiddiqui.com/medical-school-at-sgu
 
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You really need to talk to people who made it through Carib threshing machine into residency (like Skip Intro or mikkus) , and hear the story from them.
This guy kills me. The above makes me lose my faith in humanity. Why on earth do you only need to hear advice from a graduate only lol? Those are the last people you would want to ask because they will be biased because they freaking graduated from the damn school lol. Case in point look at this guy Skip who is a decade behind in this argument. Also, if you were to talk to a GRADUATE, don't you think that defeats the purpose of trashing the Caribbean in the first place if it is producing said GRADUATES? Beyond stupid and plain arrogant.

You can take the advice of Larry, Moe, and Curly but you're better off hearing it from someone like me who won't give you that BIAS and will tell it to you like it is. Besides, I was just there and I am going out of my way to report what my friends are showing me from other programs. For example, I shared that AUA only passed 20% of the first semester class last term. That's information you should know.

Remember, Caribbean medical education comes in two parts. Pre-clinical and clinical. If you make it to clinicals, you have to be stupid not to make it out. For everyone else, the problems start in basic sciences where you will either fail out of a grueling program or be unprepared for and take STEP1 and get a low score which will set you up for failure ahead. For my discussions, I limit them to the basic sciences portion as that is the biggest risk. If you're a B or B+ student out of basic sciences, I think you will match somewhere at some point if you go to some reputable school. Getting there is another story however.

Regarding the TameerSGU blog, that is the most stupid reading you can offer to someone. She clearly admits she failed because she slacked off. Well, she doesn't admit it; she actually whines about the school not being fair but it doesn't help her cause that she was so involved in extracurricular activities on campus that she flunked her classes. What about the people in her class that did not slack off? And this guy wants you to read that blog to knock a Caribbean school? Not very helpful if you ask me.

What I want a prospective Caribbean applicant to understand is that you need to work at a certain level at these schools. If you can do that, you very well can succeed. Additionally, I feel that if you are looking at becoming a doctor via the Caribbean, you really should only be considering SGU and absolutely nothing else.

The other guys just have diarrhea of the mouth.
 

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I reiterate that to SDNers considering this pathway, as pointed out by survivors of the thresher, that rejects, dropouts and withdrawn students from Carib schools offer only a little insight to surviving the entire process, which is the perspective one needs. After all, one doesn't trust an MS1 or MS2 who hasn't yet to take USMLE to offer expertise on what is actually on USMLE, would you?

Some more reading:
I graduated from Carib, ask me why you should stay away

The truth about Caribbean medical schools
 

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I reiterate that to SDNers considering this pathway, as pointed out by survivors of the thresher, that rejects, dropouts and (1)withdrawn students from Carib schools offer only a little insight to surviving (2)the entire process, which is the perspective one needs. After all, one doesn't trust an MS1 or MS2 who hasn't yet to take USMLE to offer expertise on what is actually on USMLE, would you?
1. I see we're making progress
2. It's hard to experience the entire process when the student doesn't even make it out of basic sciences. Hence, why my advice is useful...should they choose to take it.

It is preposterous to think that a graduate is the only person that can give advice on the matter as my experience and others would count for something. To put this into some better perspective that I hope you all can relate to...Kanye is not the only one who can attest to Kim K's goods; there are plenty of bf's that are well qualified to offer their input regarding that matter.
 

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[QUOTE="Why on earth do you only need to hear advice from a graduate only lol? [/QUOTE]

Not necessarily "listening to only them" but they successfully navigated the caribbean, which is not an easy feat. So they know what it takes to be successful there and completed all phases of their education and board exams successfully. They also probably had friends who failed or didn't match so can offer insight into that. People who withdraw or dropout are more likely to have an ax to grind against the school and be disillusioned about it.
 
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[QUOTE="Why on earth do you only need to hear advice from a graduate only lol?
[/QUOTE]Not necessarily "listening to only them" but they successfully navigated the caribbean, which is not an easy feat. So they know what it takes to be successful there and completed all phases of their education and board exams successfully. They also probably had friends who failed or didn't match so can offer insight into that. People who withdraw or dropout are more likely to have an ax to grind against the school and be disillusioned about it.[/QUOTE]

You are assuming both of these things. That's where all of you are failing to make strong arguments. Nobody has an axe to grind here. What would that get me? I don't get my money back either way right?

Secondly, if you take the advice of a graduate they would be biased and tell you it's a great school lol. Am I right?
In the US, most people graduate. In the Caribbean, your story is not my story and my story is not the next guys. That's why the Caribbean is a crazy business. Some people succeed, some fail, some lose their minds but you can't predict who.

Think big my friend.
 
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OP I just want to state one thing, you're getting a 498 on the MCAT using JUST the review books. Think about it, anyone who has taken the MCAT usually has prereqs and even then some can't even break a 500. You are probably a good test taker which is great, so just think of the opportunities that open up if you wait a year or two and do this the traditional way with the prereqs and a stronger foundation in the sciences . You may find yourself in a US MD school in a few years especially with a good testing ability and at the end of the day thats a golden ticket, so honestly if you can hold off why not just wait. You're already a nontraditional student why bother making it harder on yourself.
 
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OP I just want to state one thing, you're getting a 498 on the MCAT using JUST the review books. Think about it, anyone who has taken the MCAT usually has prereqs and even then some can't even break a 500. You are probably a good test taker which is great, so just think of the opportunities that open up if you wait a year or two and do this the traditional way with the prereqs and a stronger foundation in the sciences . You may find yourself in a US MD school in a few years especially with a good testing ability and at the end of the day thats a golden ticket, so honestly if you can hold off why not just wait. You're already a nontraditional student why bother making it harder on yourself.
Yes you have an amazing point. Thanks.
Thanks to all of you I'm convinced. It's better if just take the USA route rather than Caribbean. There is no reason I should take that huge risk. There's is a big chance I won't get things all lined up if I go to Caribbean. I'm going to take the MCAT and take some more courses (maybe? :)). Worse case scenario I will end up in a DO school which really isn't a bad thing considering they are the same As MD. I actually see the full picture. I researched this after @aformerstudent told me about the risks. I seriously don't want to be in debt and without a degree.
Thanks everybody especially @aformerstudent
 
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Yes you have an amazing point. Thanks.
Thanks to all of you I'm convinced. It's better if just take the USA route rather than Caribbean. There is no reason I should take that huge risk. There's is a big chance I won't get things all lined up if I go to Caribbean. I'm going to take the MCAT and take some more courses (maybe? :)). Worse case scenario I will end up in a DO school which really isn't a bad thing considering they are the same As MD. I actually see the full picture. I researched this after @aformerstudent told me about the risks. I seriously don't want to be in debt and without a degree.
Thanks everybody especially @aformerstudent
No problem man. Glad to help. I think you're making the right decision.
 
Mar 19, 2018
5
0
I was thinking of applying to the premed for the summer of 2018.
I was wondering I mean MUA is cheapest out of all Caribbean schools and the transition to MD program from premed is smooth. Is it not a good choice? Their admission officer and website shows actual students who got into specialty residencies in the states. What's a good choice for this option? They are accredited by the California. If I could hear former students from mua or the likes, then that would be awesome. Anybody??


I am going to be honest and realistic. I know MUA quite well. There are 5 semesters on Nevis and 5 clinical semesters in the US. One class size began at 65 in semester 1 by the beginning of 5 there were 40. Most of the 25 failed out. In order to take step 1 you must pass the comprehensive shelf on Nevis at the end of Med 5. If you do not, you have 2 more tries every 4 months on Nevis. You have to fly back, find a place to stay, and buy food. It sounds ok, right? What they do not tell you is how many people pass the Comprehensive final the first time. The highest pass rate is 33% of students. The second time less will pass and by the third only a couple. I know many people that made it past med 5 but never passed comp. A waste of time and tens of thousands of dollars in debt.

The I just want you to be realistic. If you did really well on the MCAT and had decent grades it will not be impossible, but beware you will need to teach yourself. MUA does not prepare students well. The majority of people that pass comp had to teach themselves.
 

cinjarn

2+ Year Member
May 20, 2017
13
2
I am going to be honest and realistic. I know MUA quite well. There are 5 semesters on Nevis and 5 clinical semesters in the US. One class size began at 65 in semester 1 by the beginning of 5 there were 40. Most of the 25 failed out. In order to take step 1 you must pass the comprehensive shelf on Nevis at the end of Med 5. If you do not, you have 2 more tries every 4 months on Nevis. You have to fly back, find a place to stay, and buy food. It sounds ok, right? What they do not tell you is how many people pass the Comprehensive final the first time. The highest pass rate is 33% of students. The second time less will pass and by the third only a couple. I know many people that made it past med 5 but never passed comp. A waste of time and tens of thousands of dollars in debt.

The I just want you to be realistic. If you did really well on the MCAT and had decent grades it will not be impossible, but beware you will need to teach yourself. MUA does not prepare students well. The majority of people that pass comp had to teach themselves.
I'd like to confirm this but honestly I cant, the highest 1st time pass rate I've seen is 20%
 
Mar 19, 2018
5
0
I was thinking of applying to the premed for the summer of 2018.
I was wondering I mean MUA is cheapest out of all Caribbean schools and the transition to MD program from premed is smooth. Is it not a good choice? Their admission officer and website shows actual students who got into specialty residencies in the states. What's a good choice for this option? They are accredited by the California. If I could hear former students from mua or the likes, then that would be awesome. Anybody??
I hope it isn't too late. DO NOT go. The accept 100s of students and only like 40% get into med 5 and 1/3 of the 40 pass comp. So unless you scored extremely well on the MCAT do it. If not, find something else to do
 
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