Medical University of the Americas

[bpiccian]

Hello everyone! I am about 2 months away from leaving home and starting medical school in Nevis. I was just wondering if anyone on here is also going to MUA or someone who graduated or is currently enrolled. I just want to know some day to day things about Nevis and MUA like internet speed and other things!

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[zobay]

Nope, but I would recommending seeing what kind of blogs you can find or stuff on their Facebook page.


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[795722]

The real question is, why are you going there? Do you want to be a doctor of debt or doctor of medicine?

 

[the argus]

The real question is, why are you going there? Do you want to be a doctor of debt or doctor of medicine?

Posts like this are better in the pre-allo/osteo forums. It's there that you will get the likes and feeling of superiority that you're striving for.

 

[795722]

Posts like this are better in the pre-allo/osteo forums. It's there that you will get the likes and feeling of superiority that you're striving for.

No wonder you on probationary status.

 

[bpiccian]

The real question is, why are you going there? Do you want to be a doctor of debt or doctor of medicine?

It is cheaper than most US schools I was interested in going too. And it has some really quality residency placements. So I mean a doctor from MUA and a doctor from any US school is a doctor nonetheless

 

[PossibleDOC?]

PROVIDED you make it into the quality residency the n=1 have made it into

 

[bpiccian]

PROVIDED you make it into the quality residency the n=1 have made it into

Their match rates for fist time applicants are in the upper 90%'s, thats just as good if not better than some US schools. It all boils down to if you are smart enough there are dumb people in US schools and smart people in Caribbean schools, and vice versa. People allow the stigma of a scary Caribbean school to overwhelm them when it reality all the schools are virtually the same

 

[795722]

Their match rates for fist time applicants are in the upper 90%'s, thats just as good if not better than some US schools. It all boils down to if you are smart enough there are dumb people in US schools and smart people in Caribbean schools, and vice versa. People allow the stigma of a scary Caribbean school to overwhelm them when it reality all the schools are virtually the same

All schools are not the same and there are no dumb people in US schools. You have to be smart with good grades to get in US schools. Dude and you are a joke if u think their match rate is above 90. You aren't even in the so called Top 4 school.

 

[treefriend]

All schools are not the same and there are no dumb people in US schools. You have to be smart with good grades to get in US schools. Dude and you are a joke if u think their match rate is above 90. You aren't even in the so called Top 4 school.

some students in Caribbean schools ARE smarter than US MD students. So many students going to the Caribbean have 515+ scores on MCAT but low GPAs (for a myriad of reasons).

Some US MD students are also dumb, but hard workers. Many MD schools' average MCAT scores are literally 502 (some like Howard even lower). People may not have tried in undergrad, but certainly everyone tries at least a little on MCAT.

 

[deleted274002]

some students in Caribbean schools ARE smarter than US MD students. So many students going to the Caribbean have 515+ scores on MCAT but low GPAs (for a myriad of reasons).

Some US MD students are also dumb, but hard workers. Many MD schools' average MCAT scores are literally 502 (some like Howard even lower). People may not have tried in undergrad, but certainly everyone tries at least a little on MCAT.

When applying to residency, being "smarter" is essentially irrelevant. An IMG from the Caribbean with a genius IQ will still, for the most part, be considered an inferior applicant for any residency when compared to the USMD graduate with a lower IQ provided that their scores are similar.

Is that unfortunate? Absolutely. Unfair? I don't think so. The end goal is always to be licensed, board certified, and practicing. I've met neurosurgery residents at my institution that were as dumb as rocks and I've met residents in less competitive specialties that will make everyone else look dumb. You should attend a medical school that would give you the greatest probability of matching. Your intelligence may make that easier, but where you go is far more important.

 

[WGSgrad]

some students in Caribbean schools ARE smarter than US MD students. So many students going to the Caribbean have 515+ scores on MCAT but low GPAs (for a myriad of reasons).

Some US MD students are also dumb, but hard workers. Many MD schools' average MCAT scores are literally 502 (some like Howard even lower). People may not have tried in undergrad, but certainly everyone tries at least a little on MCAT.

1) I think your example is specious. Someone with a 515 MCAT and a low GPA would find themselves in a U.S. DO school.

2) There is no consistency to your logic... The same "myriad of reasons" that would possibly affect a student's performance throughout undergrad could most certainly affect their performance in the MCAT. The MCAT is not a test of intelligence but is meant to test your understanding of concepts and theories. It also test your ability to take test.

3) Howard is a mission focused school that targets students from underserved communities...you know...students who may not have the money to shell out for MCAT prep, etc.

4) "People may not have tried in undergrad, but certainly everyone tries at least a little on MCAT." Whaaaat? What does that even mean? That somehow you didn't try to understand the material as an undergrad but somehow when it came to test time you could have done well, not having understood the material, if you just tried?

5) I'm old enough to recognize these responses for what they are but...I'm human.

So to answer your original question, there is a poster in another thread, a recent poster that went to MUA, so they should be able to give you some insight: https://www-forums.studentdoctor.ne...ty-of-the-Americas,-Withdraw-myself..1242143/


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[treefriend]

1) I think your example is specious. Someone with a 515 MCAT and a low GPA would find themselves in a U.S. DO school.

2) There is no consistency to your logic... The same "myriad of reasons" that would possibly affect a student's performance throughout undergrad could most certainly affect their performance in the MCAT. The MCAT is not a test of intelligence but is meant to test your understanding of concepts and theories. It also test your ability to take test.

3) Howard is a mission focused school that targets students from underserved communities...you know...students who may not have the money to shell out for MCAT prep, etc.

4) "People may not have tried in undergrad, but certainly everyone tries at least a little on MCAT." Whaaaat? What does that even mean? That somehow you didn't try to understand the material as an undergrad but somehow when it came to test time you could have done well, not having understood the material, if you just tried?

5) I'm old enough to recognize these responses for what they are but...I'm human.

So to answer your original question, there is a poster in another thread, a recent poster that went to MUA, so they should be able to give you some insight: https://www-forums.studentdoctor.net/index.php?threads/Failed-Comp-3x-at-Medical-University-of-the-Americas,-Withdraw-myself..1242143/


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@Wobblie, I agree. That was only in response to "there are no dumb students at US MD schools).

@WGSgrad, 1. Refer to above. See what I'm responding to, before you jump to defend US schools.
2. Depression, homesickness, no supervision at 18 leading to wasting away crucial years drinking and partying, not knowing how to limit themselves, any other medical condition, so you know, many many reasons why atudents may not perform well throughout 4 years.
3. The reason I said someone may not have tried in undergrad but may have on MCAT is because 1. The MCAT is usually taken at an older age (21-22). Most premed students likely have their life sorted by now. Undergrad is continuous effort and studying for 4-5 years, MCAT can be studied for in 1-2 months and if someone is smart enough, is good at sciences and critical thinking, and finally a good test taker (which all grad schools require you to be anyway, the worthy ones anyway), they can perform really well with a month/2 month prep.

Also about a 515 and low GPA but going to a DO school for med, I don't know why other students don't choose that route, but for me, I want to start practicing young (i.e. I don't want to wait and apply for multiple rounds) and I'm Canadian. Being American surely seems like winning a lottery sometimes lol.

And again as wobblie said, smarter or not, US MD students do get all the best residencies, there is nothing to argue there.

@OP, there are many past student blogs about life on the caribbean islands. A few examples: https://mg2ms.wordpress.com/page/4/
There are many others if you look up. The girl who wrote this blog did match, but please keep in mind success at the Top 4 and especially other Caribbean schools is not commonplace. If you will be happy with the knowledge that you're serving people AND making good 6 figures ($200,000+), look into podiatry schools. Some students got in with a 488 MCAT score!!!! NUTS!!! My point is, if it is money, there are easier and more assured ways of making it. Otherwise, that blog is good but 5-6 years old, so things could only have improved lifestyle wise.

 

[WGSgrad]

@Wobblie, I agree. That was only in response to "there are no dumb students at US MD schools).

@WGSgrad, 1. Refer to above. See what I'm responding to, before you jump to defend US schools. - I did. I read the entire thread, including the post by TimeTraveller, before responding. While I would agree that there are certainly students who may not be entirely prepared for the rigors of medical school AND/OR that there are students who will find out that the study of medicine is not a good fit for them AND/OR that there will be students who despite there best efforts will not succeeded, I do not believe that there are any "dumb" students at U.S. medical schools.
2. Depression, homesickness, no supervision at 18 leading to wasting away crucial years drinking and partying, not knowing how to limit themselves, any other medical condition, so you know, many many reasons why atudents may not perform well throughout 4 years. - All of these issues can affect students well into their early twenties. Additionally, students can be impacted by poor financial support, parenthood, pregnancy, the need to provide financial support for their families, abusive relationships, cycles of communal violence, etc. But this isn't where the real tension in our arguments is...
3. The reason I said someone may not have tried in undergrad but may have on MCAT is because 1. The MCAT is usually taken at an older age (21-22). Most premed students likely have their life sorted by now. Undergrad is continuous effort and studying for 4-5 years, MCAT can be studied for in 1-2 months and if someone is smart enough, is good at sciences and critical thinking, and finally a good test taker (which all grad schools require you to be anyway, the worthy ones anyway), they can perform really well with a month/2 month prep. - I stand by my earlier argument. Most students who perform well on the MCAT, 515+ well, are either good test takers or students who performed well in prerequisite coursework, or some combination of both. Yes, there will always been students who are "smart but lazy" but they aren't the norm. The material point is that it is very unlikely for someone to bomb the entirety of their undergrad (all 4-5 years as you point out) and then perform exceptionally well on the MCAT without there being a "story" that would probably get them into a DO program anyway if they have sufficiently matured as you suggested and are willing to own their past and do necessary remedial work (i.e. a DIY or formal post bacc or SMP).

Also about a 515 and low GPA but going to a DO school for med, I don't know why other students don't choose that route, but for me, A) I want to start practicing young (i.e. I don't want to wait and apply for multiple rounds) and B) I'm Canadian. C) Being American surely seems like winning a lottery sometimes lol. - A) That's fine. But I think you, and most students who make this choice, are being short sighted. That one additional year could cost you thousands of dollars on the front and back end. On the front end its the additional expense you will pay to attend a Caribbean school (it's not just about tuition dollars, it about all the money you will spend as a result of your location there) and on the back end its possibly not getting a residency spot during your first application cycle and the missed earnings that result from that. The difference between waiting out a year now as opposed to having to do it later is huge. This doesn't even begin to include the money you might lose if you end up practicing primary care when you had the step scores to practice in a more lucrative specialty (Note: I want to do primary care so I'm certainly not knocking it.) B) Canadians get into U.S. MD/DO programs all the time. It's one of the few benefits to being our northern neighbor. C) Being an American, or a citizen of any developed nation in the global north is certainly like winning the lottery.

And again as wobblie said, smarter or not, US MD students do get all the best residencies, there is nothing to argue there. - Agreed. I would take it even a step further and say US MD (and DO) students have the best shot at getting ANY residency in the U.S. Which is why it makes no sense to me that someone who is young, and has time on their side, wouldn't set themselves up for the best possible opportunities in the long run.

That being said, I am a semi-Kantian in that I respect you as another rational creature who has the ability to reason and to set ends for themselves. I wish you the best of luck.

@OP, there are many past student blogs about life on the caribbean islands. A few examples: https://mg2ms.wordpress.com/page/4/
There are many others if you look up. The girl who wrote this blog did match, but please keep in mind success at the Top 4 and especially other Caribbean schools is not commonplace. If you will be happy with the knowledge that you're serving people AND making good 6 figures ($200,000+), look into podiatry schools. Some students got in with a 488 MCAT score!!!! NUTS!!! My point is, if it is money, there are easier and more assured ways of making it. Otherwise, that blog is good but 5-6 years old, so things could only have improved lifestyle wise.

 

[PossibleDOC?]

@Wobblie, I agree. That was only in response to "there are no dumb students at US MD schools).

@WGSgrad, 1. Refer to above. See what I'm responding to, before you jump to defend US schools.
2. Depression, homesickness, no supervision at 18 leading to wasting away crucial years drinking and partying, not knowing how to limit themselves, any other medical condition, so you know, many many reasons why atudents may not perform well throughout 4 years.
3. The reason I said someone may not have tried in undergrad but may have on MCAT is because 1. The MCAT is usually taken at an older age (21-22). Most premed students likely have their life sorted by now. Undergrad is continuous effort and studying for 4-5 years, MCAT can be studied for in 1-2 months and if someone is smart enough, is good at sciences and critical thinking, and finally a good test taker (which all grad schools require you to be anyway, the worthy ones anyway), they can perform really well with a month/2 month prep.

Also about a 515 and low GPA but going to a DO school for med, I don't know why other students don't choose that route, but for me, I want to start practicing young (i.e. I don't want to wait and apply for multiple rounds) and I'm Canadian. Being American surely seems like winning a lottery sometimes lol.

And again as wobblie said, smarter or not, US MD students do get all the best residencies, there is nothing to argue there.

@OP, there are many past student blogs about life on the caribbean islands. A few examples: https://mg2ms.wordpress.com/page/4/
There are many others if you look up. The girl who wrote this blog did match, but please keep in mind success at the Top 4 and especially other Caribbean schools is not commonplace. If you will be happy with the knowledge that you're serving people AND making good 6 figures ($200,000+), look into podiatry schools. Some students got in with a 488 MCAT score!!!! NUTS!!! My point is, if it is money, there are easier and more assured ways of making it. Otherwise, that blog is good but 5-6 years old, so things could only have improved lifestyle wise.

She matched into Psych....easiest residency to match in....visited the school's website.....strange how theres only a handful of alumni profiles........and they all seem to only be top performers, I'd like to see the classic average medical student and where they placed, probably never placed because in the caribbean either you're the best or you don't match end of story.

 

[ScottTenorman54]

Is there really any reason to troll this guy's post with random carib bashing? The man's decided to go, he's looking for other students / info about the island. Good god, give it a rest.

 

[treefriend]

@WGSgrad I really don't have time for needless arguments lol.
Stay on your high horse for all I care.

 

[WGSgrad]

Is there really any reason to troll this guy's post with random carib bashing? The man's decided to go, he's looking for other students / info about the island. Good god, give it a rest.

See the the 6th post (from the OP) in which they state the below. I think if the OP had just ignored TimeTraveller the responses might have been a bit different. Instead, the OP offered warrants as to the argument underlying their logic, which invited at least of some of the above responses which I don't necessarily think are Caribbean bashing but a challenge to the warrants the OP put forth in their post. For what it's worth, I did direct the OP to a recent thread from a poster from that university.

It is cheaper than most US schools I was interested in going too. And it has some really quality residency placements. So I mean a doctor from MUA and a doctor from any US school is a doctor nonetheless

@WGSgrad I really don't have time for needless arguments lol.

Stay on your high horse for all I care.

I am genuinely confused...but as I stated in my previous post, I genuinely wish you the best. The world needs more good physicians, if you become a good physician, no matter what path you took, you have my respect.

 

[bpiccian]

Yes I agree we need to chill on the bashing. Im not here to say which schools are better or worse, and for that one guys information Saba and MUA are sister schools so essentially MUA is in the "Big 4". But US and Caribbean schools are all in the same. I was just looking for some info on the island, I don't really know what that guy has to gain by bashing Caribbean schools. As long as you can practice medicine in the end that is all that matters. I just want to say get rid of the bashing of Caribbean schools, either way it is our own decision where we want to go, if you want to go US go there. This was my first post on here looking for people with similar interests and stuff like that and to be greeted with all this hostility and bickering it really makes me question if I am surrounded by like minded future doctors or internet trolls.

 

[bpiccian]

See the the 6th post (from the OP) in which they state the below. I think if the OP had just ignored TimeTraveller the responses might have been a bit different. Instead, the OP offered warrants as to the argument underlying their logic, which invited at least of some of the above responses which I don't necessarily think are Caribbean bashing but a challenge to the warrants the OP put forth in their post. For what it's worth, I did direct the OP to a recent thread from a poster from that university.





I am genuinely confused...but as I stated in my previous post, I genuinely wish you the best. The world needs more good physicians, if you become a good physician, no matter what path you took, you have my respect.

https://www.mua.edu/images/residency/2016_MUA_Residency.pdf

 

[treefriend]

See the the 6th post (from the OP) in which they state the below. I think if the OP had just ignored TimeTraveller the responses might have been a bit different. Instead, the OP offered warrants as to the argument underlying their logic, which invited at least of some of the above responses which I don't necessarily think are Caribbean bashing but a challenge to the warrants the OP put forth in their post. For what it's worth, I did direct the OP to a recent thread from a poster from that university.





I am genuinely confused...but as I stated in my previous post, I genuinely wish you the best. The world needs more good physicians, if you become a good physician, no matter what path you took, you have my respect.

Lol i'm SOOOO VERY SORRY, GENUINELY ACTUALLY SORRY i didn't read your full reply. I read the first bit, saw you were challenging everything I had said, and decided to drop it. Again sorry. I don't know other people's stories tbh, I only know mine, I didn't get into US DO schools.
I did get a really good scholarship for SGU so I'm probably biased lol. Again sorry!

As for your arguments, I guess we probably are saying the same things but to different degrees. I don't get how a student with 3.9 GPA ends with a 502 MCAT score. The only explanation I can think is their uni inflated grades. But they do deserve their spots regardless. They dedicate thousands of hours doing research during undergrad, volunteering in ERs, and definitely should be rewarded. I guess my point was that Carib doesn't get only the bottom of the pile. i.e. relatively speaking, some US MD admits are "dumber".

 

[Shinken]

I'm amazed at the ability of Caribbean medical schools to market themselves so effectively, that you have people truly believing and being passionate about their deceiving "statistics" of match rates, etc.

I used to get into these long discussions about MD/DO vs Caribbean many years ago on SDN. Now, I realize that whatever people want to do they'll do it, no sense in trying to talk them out of this mistake.

 

[WGSgrad]

https://www.mua.edu/images/residency/2016_MUA_Residency.pdf

I did a search on Google and Youtube and, unfortunately, medical students aren't the bloggist bunch and SGU is much better represented than MUA. Perhaps you might consider piling a list of names and starting to reach out to folks directly?

Vijay Aswani - He go this MD at MUA and taught there as well. (I have included a link to his blog, LinkedIn, and provider site). Given his time on the island, he should be a wealth of information and it looks like it would pretty easy to track him down.

http://vijayaswani.blogspot.com/2010/07/mua-where-i-went-to-medical-school.html
https://www.linkedin.com/in/vijayaswanimd
https://www.marshfieldclinic.org/Doctors/Vijay-H-Aswani-MD-PhD


As I said above to treefriend, I genuinely wish you the best. If I stumble across any MUA grads/blogs/vlogs in my neurotic obsession to figure out how to survive in medical school, I will send them your way.

 

[bpiccian]

I'm amazed at the ability of Caribbean medical schools to market themselves so effectively, that you have people truly believing and being passionate about their deceiving "statistics" of match rates, etc.

I used to get into these long discussions about MD/DO vs Caribbean many years ago on SDN. Now, I realize that whatever people want to do they'll do it, no sense in trying to talk them out of this mistake.

I have spoken to several doctors an internal medicine specialist, a pain management specialist, and a Harvard fellowship gastroenterologist before I made this decision because I too was skeptical, but all of them told me not only do they have collages from the Caribbean but they also hear highly from the schools and recommend that if accepted I should go because it is essentially the same thing. I mean I am in no way trying to be rude or mean to you but these schools do not lie about statistics, these matches are verifiable and true. Maybe back when you went to medical school if that was years ago then it was different. But I encourage you to explore the modern scope of the medical school field. You might be one of those people who for some reason have this disdain towards Caribbean medicine for some reason but like I said just go look some stuff up. I wish you the best!

 

[bpiccian]

I did a search on Google and Youtube and, unfortunately, medical students aren't the bloggist bunch and SGU is much better represented than MUA. Perhaps you might consider piling a list of names and starting to reach out to folks directly?

Vijay Aswani - He go this MD at MUA and taught there as well. (I have included a link to his blog, LinkedIn, and provider site). Given his time on the island, he should be a wealth of information and it looks like it would pretty easy to track him down.

http://vijayaswani.blogspot.com/2010/07/mua-where-i-went-to-medical-school.html
https://www.linkedin.com/in/vijayaswanimd
https://www.marshfieldclinic.org/Doctors/Vijay-H-Aswani-MD-PhD


As I said above to treefriend, I genuinely wish you the best. If I stumble across any MUA grads/blogs/vlogs in my neurotic obsession to figure out how to survive in medical school, I will send them your way.

Well thank you for posting all those links they are very helpful! Also MUA is a bit newer than SGU, both of them are good schools SGU just has a wider known reputation! Like I said above Saba and MUA are practically the same school, both are held to the same standards.

 

[npappasan]

I have spoken to several doctors an internal medicine specialist, a pain management specialist, and a Harvard fellowship gastroenterologist before I made this decision because I too was skeptical, but all of them told me not only do they have collages from the Caribbean but they also hear highly from the schools and recommend that if accepted I should go because it is essentially the same thing. I mean I am in no way trying to be rude or mean to you but these schools do not lie about statistics, these matches are verifiable and true. Maybe back when you went to medical school if that was years ago then it was different. But I encourage you to explore the modern scope of the medical school field. You might be one of those people who for some reason have this disdain towards Caribbean medicine for some reason but like I said just go look some stuff up. I wish you the best!

You have to consider that the majority of people who have these criticisms of the Carib school process have never actually been to medical school. It reminds of the pre-med club we had at my undergrad school. EVERYONE in that club was an expert on what med schools were looking for. The advisor for the club was one of the chemistry professors, as if he had any clue also. The president of the club was a smug douchebag. I remember him bombing the MCAT. He would say "I did ok considering I didn't study for it". Yeah, because that's what you do for the exam that will potentially shape your educational career; you DON'T study for it. The truth of the matter is that the majority of the pre-meds who opine on here about all things med school in the US vs anywhere else, will only actually make it into a med school if they donate their bodies as cadavers.

 

[bpiccian]

You have to consider that the majority of people who have these criticisms of the Carib school process have never actually been to medical school. It reminds of the pre-med club we had at my undergrad school. EVERYONE in that club was an expert on what med schools were looking for. The advisor for the club was one of the chemistry professors, as if he had any clue also. The president of the club was a smug douchebag. I remember him bombing the MCAT. He would say "I did ok considering I didn't study for it". Yeah, because that's what you do for the exam that will potentially shape your educational career; you DON'T study for it. The truth of the matter is that the majority of the pre-meds who opine on here about all things med school in the US vs anywhere else, will only actually make it into a med school if they donate their bodies as cadavers.

Hey thanks man for what it is worth you are the first person on this thread to make any sense!

 

[738177]

Well thank you for posting all those links they are very helpful! Also MUA is a bit newer than SGU, both of them are good schools SGU just has a wider known reputation! Like I said above Saba and MUA are practically the same school, both are held to the same standards.

One is 50 state accredited, while the other isn't accredited in 7-8 states.
So no, in the eyes of US residency programs, these schools will not be held to the same standards regardless of how related they are. You severely decrease the # of residencies you can apply to by picking MUA over SABA. And i wouldn't bet on MUA getting California approval before you graduate considering how stringent and lengthy the California accreditation process is.
Now you can say "oh well i'll just apply to other states for residency". Sure you can, but keep in mind that more and more states are starting to follow the California accreditation process.
This isn't a Caribbean bash post. I'm just pointing out the big elephant in the room that wasn't discussed in this thread.

Good luck!

 

[NotAProgDirector]

These Carib / Not Carib threads tend to devolve into extreme viewpoints, not unlike our current political climate.

1. The carib schools are not a "scam". They teach the same medicine that other medical schools teach. People who graduate and get residencies become docs in the US and do just fine.
2. Calling them "the same" as US schools is not correct. Their graduates do not do as well in the match as US grads. When you look at the match list you've posted, you'll see that it's mostly FM and IM, with a few in other fields. Perhaps that's because that's what all these students wanted. More likely, they were unable to compete for more competitive spots. You'll also note that most of the programs listed are community programs. There's nothing wrong with this, just making sure you (or anyone reading this thread) understands that's the deal. A few people break the mold and end up with great spots, but they are the outliers.
3. As far as match statistics, that's complicated. There are about 80 people on that match list. MUA says they have 80 people per class. BUT, they have three class starts per year -- so I assume that's 80 per start. If that's the case, 1/2 to 2/3 end up failing out before they get a chance to match. It's possible that MUA only accepts a total of 80 students, with ~25 per start, but that seems unlikely. The MUA website is not clear.
4. As mentioned above, MUA and Saba are only "sister" schools because they are owned by the same people. Equating their status / outcomes is like equating Harvard and Harvard Extension.

Bottom line: For those that can't get into a US school, going to the carib is a reasonable option to consider. But, there is a significant chance of failing out, leaving big debt that is difficult to discharge. And specialty and program choices for residency will be much more limited. Whether this is carib schools giving people a "fair second chance" or "preying on the desperate" depends upon your viewpoint. As you move down the quality scale of schools, it's more fair to question their motives.

 

[bpiccian]

One is 50 state accredited, while the other isn't accredited in 7-8 states.
So no, in the eyes of US residency programs, these schools will not be held to the same standards regardless of how related they are. You severely decrease the # of residencies you can apply to by picking MUA over SABA. And i wouldn't bet on MUA getting California approval before you graduate considering how stringent and lengthy the California accreditation process is.
Now you can say "oh well i'll just apply to other states for residency". Sure you can, but keep in mind that more and more states are starting to follow the California accreditation process.
This isn't a Caribbean bash post. I'm just pointing out the big elephant in the room that wasn't discussed in this thread.

Good luck!

MUA is only not accredited in California, not 7-8 states just that 1.

 

[738177]

MUA is only not accredited in California, not 7-8 states just that 1.

Nope.
7-8 states currently follow the California accreditation system. If your school isn't California accredited, you're banned from applying to those states for residency as well.

 

[795722]

MUA is only not accredited in California, not 7-8 states just that 1.

I seriously fear for you. You don't seem to know a lot. While I wish you nothing but success I am really scared for you.

 

[aformerstudent]

I don't know why but I created an account to respond to your post so that I can warn you and others about this school. I believe you are not properly informed about this school and I'll at least try and give you a heads up.

I withdrew from MUA Nevis last year because the school is a scam. I fell for the trap that somehow I was going to become a doctor in their program when I admittedly was not a strong candidate and was still accepted.

Here is the irony with a school like MUA and almost every other Caribbean program. They will take almost anybody as long as you just MEET the requirements save for maybe SGU or Ross. Even SGU was taking people with sub 3.0 cumulative GPA's in the last five years. Getting in is the easy part. The hard part is actually getting off the island. And I will tell you why...

The students that actually match into a residency are THE TOP students at the school. From my experience I would say these students are on par with US and Canadian applicants. The problem is that is a minuscule percentage of the overall class. The clinical dean comes to the island and sneakily tells us that we will probably graduate with people from three maybe four other classes and that's because not everyone matches on their first shot. That match list is bogus, it doesn't tell you anything about the student. For all you know, someone could be matching into IM for FM when they graduated two or three years ago!

Pay close attention to the curriculum. You will be taking 34 credits in med 2 with mandatory attendance. Until you experience that, you will never understand how that plays out. It is a recipe for disaster. Where in the US do you take 34 credit hours of basic sciences in 15 weeks? If you drop one course, they will put you on academic probation for not one but TWO terms and you are on probation THE DAY YOU DROP so it's more like 2.5 terms. If you drop a course or fail a course on probation, you are dismissed. And say goodbye to your financial aid if you are taking under 17 credits; another way for them to get you to leave. The policies are designed to weed out at least half the student body and then get a nice little number by med 5 where they can weed you out some more so that the student body size correlates w/ their available clinical spots. I was trying to upload some pics but the system is flagging them as spam. But, and this is hilarious, the med 5 class room is 1/2 the size of the med 1 classroom. Anybody in their right mind should know why that is. Beyond that, administration on the island is useless. You'll be in a foreign country and the school will tell you to address your concerns with the office in Massachusetts. I knew someone who got dismissed and was sitting in their dorm room calling Massachusetts regarding the dismissal policies when the admin office was literally two blocks away.

Dr. C is the Dean of Basic Sciences. He is not accessible...you will never get to talk to him and he doesn't want to talk to you because he knows most of the students won't even make it. He is there to crack the whip. He will like you if you are one of the top students but like I said earlier that is a tiny exclusive group. Most of the students at the school are immature, have no relevant medical experience, and quite honestly don't even look like medical students. Most are really nice though but they just don't look like medical students for some reason. It's weird, if you go there you will see.

I'm saying all of this because I really am trying to convince you or anybody not to go to this school. It is HELL ON EARTH. Apparently 10 or so people out of 50 or so in the med 5 class passed the NBME comp. Do the math on that. 20% of the med 5 class move on to sit for STEP1 while the rest have to return to Nevis to write the comp again. But they tell you they have a >90% first time pass rate for STEP. Yeah >90% for THOSE THAT MAKE IT TO STEP. What did I tell you about the exclusive bunch? Those are the students that make up that 90% number. Oh and MUA has a sneaky med 6 class that you probably don't know about. After comp, you have to write a research paper for "med 6." If the school does not accept the paper, you DO NOT SIT FOR STEP! So you can pass the five terms, pass the comp, but they will screw you with the paper which you have no control over all because they are short on clinical spots.

Also, class was just harder than it should have been. Most of the professors speak with a heavy accent and worse, they write the exam questions in broken English or use phraseology that you may not be accustomed to as an American or Canadian citizen. You might not think that is a big deal but it is a huge deal in practice and when you encounter it on a daily basis. They also play around with the test scores to make sure that they hit their quotas. For example, we didn't get our anatomy final grades back for five days and when we ran into the professors they just kept saying "we're working on the numbers." They were working on the numbers because they had to fail like 10 people by putting a higher weight on the shelf and a lesser weight on the in-house final. Keep in mind, we were not told how much each exam would be worth. That decision was made after the scores were in. Since most people failed the shelf, that was given more weight because the in-house final average was actually a pass. Get used to those politics at these schools. They also constantly change the curriculum. There is a course taken during the first term called "scientific foundations." One term it will contain genetics, the next no genetics. One term they taught anatomy one term and then embryo the next term. The next term they taught them together in one term. I never met one person at that school who had a rock solid system down. Everybody just kept saying "man that was hard." Well medical school is hard but it should not be impossible or you shouldn't be stressing the way some of these students are during finals. It was just an overall weird experience and to this day I believe there is a system to all of it and that system is to fail out a significant amount of the class.

A lot of people transfer out of MUA after the comp and do clinicals at other schools so maybe that's why you don't see a whole lot of MUA grads out there even though the school has been around since 1998. It's a real ****t show at this school and most everybody has been groomed to accept it. I can write you a book about all the crap I saw over there and the unrealistic expectations administration had. During my final term there, the Dean instituted a policy where they started to test us on pre-reading assignments because word got back that the clinical students were lacking in general knowledge of basic sciences concepts. Do you see the cycle?

I will repeat it again, MUA was HELL ON EARTH. Straight A students were struggling once they got to the path, physio, and pharm in the upper terms and every day was stressful and I felt like I had a gun to my head all the time. It was no walk in the park and I honestly didn't feel like I was learning; I felt like I was cramming. The short story is it's not a good school and you will be taking a huge risk. The program is designed to push you till you can be pushed no more. It is by no means realistic when you compare it to even other established Caribbean programs and certainly US MD or DO programs.

If you don't have a 3.5+ and a high MCAT score/or excellent test-taking skills coming in, you will guaranteed not make it out of this school in four years if you do at all because you just won't be able to keep up. The irony is with those stats, you should be applying to a US school in the first place. On a side note, I have the utmost of respect for anyone who has made it out of MUA in four years and matched...regardless of specialty.

A few more things...

My definition of "scam" is to swindle. MUA fits my definition of the word scam and that is why I choose to call the school a scam.

If you are Canadian, clinical dean said something like this..."things will be harder for Canadians."

Don't compare MUA to Saba, rejected Saba applicants are automatically sent to MUA...there are a bunch of them there. MUA is not big 4 or 5 and not even close. California doesn't matter unless you plan on practicing in California. I don't even know why some people make a big fuss about this. You're an IMG and yet people still bitch about California like somehow it makes the IMG stigma less of an issue. You will do just fine in the world of medicine as an IMG from a school w/o California approval so don't lose sleep over it. And I hope you know you can still practice in California even if you're not from a California approved school. I forget the process but I called the California board in 2013 so yeah it can happen.

Pre-clinical grades DO MATTER. If you fail one course at MUA, say goodbye to any chance at surgery. In the US you can just pass, in the Caribbean administration will tell you 82 or better = the start of success/interviews.

It's more than hard work. There is a system to succeeding here. If you don't understand that system and how to be efficient, you'll just be lost because the program is abnormal. I still have the grades stats for med 1-4. They are all over the place. There are only 4-5 people consistently getting A's and I don't even know if it's the same people!

You CANNOT study basic sciences in 20 months. Department chairperson said "we need five years to teach you this stuff." All Caribbean programs are accelerated.

One professor broke it down to me like this..."When I was teaching at a US school, we taught them more [material] but here we only teach you guys what you need to know because there isn't a lot of time."

Oh and the guy from MUA who got the surgery spot at Hopkins?...OUTLIER. You'll end up in primary care from this school.

 

[Study_Hard]

I also created an account to reply to these posts. I MATCHED into an residency that is considered "competitive". I was not a TOP student but a hard hard worker.

MUA will accept students who should not even be in medical school. Thus many people "withdraw" or simply fail out. Taking thousands of dollars from students who they know will fail is the agenda of MUA and a lot of these "for profit" Caribbean schools. So Don't Blame the School...Blame Yourself. Okay... Blame both

With that being said, Please try to avoid MUA or Caribbeans schools. The school will make your life a living hell but it is possible to succeed. Retake MCAT, apply to US medical school again, do a post-bacc something, apply to DO --> if not then apply to a Caribbean school.

1. It is untrue that only the TOP students match. Students do Match, however their are a great deal who do not. I know great students who have the same if not better scores than their US counterparts who have not matched.. which is very unfortunate. However, when they apply again several students match their 2nd time. And then you have those students who have applied 3+ years, spent thousands (200K+) and still no success. It is the risk one takes when being a FMG. I've meet US Students who have failed Multiple Step exams (Yes.. Multiple) and they may still match (probably not in a competitive field) before a FMG.

2. Yes... The courses of Med 1 to Med 5 are condensed into one semester while a US student courses are done throughout the entire year.
Focusing on classroom size, the inability to drop classes, credit hours, medical students not looking like medical students, having to go to 90% of classes blah blah..
Do what you have to do --> You will finish your first 2 years. Focusing on those things is obvious why someone would not make it.

3. Yes, there is a research paper. I wouldn't label it as Med 6. You can't do clinical spots without completing the paper and having it approved. Yes, its probably because they have limited clinical spots. Just do it and get it over with. It's tedious and time consuming and time could and should be spend studying for step. But you have to do, what you have to do... to do what you want to do. The end

4. Prior to leaving the island we have to take a "Comp" exam. Comp exam is suppose to simulate Step 1. If you can't pass Comp you probably won't pass Step 1. That simple. Plenty of people do not pass comp and have to return to the island 3.5 months later to take it again. Yes, it may feel like the end of the world but plenty of people have done it before you.. so why can't you. You are good enough, with hard work and prayer you will pass. I believe you have 3 chances to pass Comp. If you don't then you are kicked out.

5. You will never meet the executive dean or associate dean. They are just names for status. They may appear at graduation and you will wonder who the hell are these people. MUA gives them some money to put their picture and name on their website. They have no idea what is going on at MUA and they surely do not care. Dr. T****man is the clinical dean who you will have contact with and She is the Devil. Whatever you experienced on the island was child's play compared to the hell she can put you through.

6. After you pass step 1 (hopefully well) you start rotations. The hospitals may be the worst but its seriously what you make it. You can BS and get an A.. you can work hard and get an A. After each core you have a Shelf exam. Even if you get an A in your actual rotation, if you fail your shelf... You fail. You have to retake the shelf and sometimes it can take 2-3 months to reschedule it. This process will frustrate you. Then you wonder does this place even have my best interest, do they actually want you to be successful and become a doctor. Also, you do not know the passing score of the shelf exam and they consistently change it. I've asked some of my US med school friends and there passing shelf score was lower which is ridiculous. After you successfully pass all shelf exams and do your "homework assignments" you can sit for Step 2. Now, I believe their is some rule that if you did not get a min 250 on Step 1, you also have to take a Comp for step 2 at a prometric center. Does it hold you back... hell yea. But I am a firm believer that if you can't pass Comp... you won't pass the real Step 2. You also have to take a Step 2 CS practice course through Kaplan which requires you to fly to New Jersey (no matter where you are located). Kaplan is located everywhere... yet you have to waste more money to fly to New Jersey for a day. If you do not pass the Practice Step 2 CS through Kaplan.. you have purchase the full course which is like 1,500 or something.

7. I am not sure how or why PRE-Clinical grades matter. I mean you obviously shouldn't do terrible. If you do terrible, you will be kicked out anyway. But no one sees your pre-Clinical grades until your MSPE. And MPSE is not important for a FMG (according to a PD). It is about your scores, scores, scores, scores, then research/other post-grad degrees etc. Some American schools have pass/fail but not all.

8. MUA is not a Big 4/5. But it is the closet to it. The best and only good thing about the school are the students. Once you weed out the students who should have never been there in the first place.. they are really hard working. You have to be on another level mentally, self-motivator, have family/friend support..... to finish from this f***ked school. With that being said, I've heard horror stories from plenty of Caribbean schools.

9. Yes.. Getting surgery at Hopkins coming from MUA is rare. Hell it's rare for any school.. it is Hopkins. I personally know people who have matched in much more than FM and IM. Meds-Peds, Anesthesiology, Path, Neurology, ER to name a few. Yes, it may have taken more than one ERAS application but that is the risk you take.

If you put in the work and Make it ALL the way through, you will be successful. Yes, it may take an extra year or two but it will happen.
At the end of the day.. the biggest barrier is Step scores. If you do well on Step 1 and 2, you will Match. It may not be into Dermatology or Neurosurgery (if you wanted those you probably should not have became a FMG anyway) but you can still get a residency that is considered competitive.

All The Best.. on your future endeavors.

 

[PossibleDOC?]

I also created an account to reply to these posts. I MATCHED into an residency that is considered "competitive". I was not a TOP student but a hard hard worker.

MUA will accept students who should not even be in medical school. Thus many people "withdraw" or simply fail out. Taking thousands of dollars from students who they know will fail is the agenda of MUA and a lot of these "for profit" Caribbean schools. So Don't Blame the School...Blame Yourself. Okay... Blame both

With that being said, Please try to avoid MUA or Caribbeans schools. The school will make your life a living hell but it is possible to succeed. Retake MCAT, apply to US medical school again, do a post-bacc something, apply to DO --> if not then apply to a Caribbean school.

1. It is untrue that only the TOP students match. Students do Match, however their are a great deal who do not. I know great students who have the same if not better scores than their US counterparts who have not matched.. which is very unfortunate. However, when they apply again several students match their 2nd time. And then you have those students who have applied 3+ years, spent thousands (200K+) and still no success. It is the risk one takes when being a FMG. I've meet US Students who have failed Multiple Step exams (Yes.. Multiple) and they may still match (probably not in a competitive field) before a FMG.

2. Yes... The courses of Med 1 to Med 5 are condensed into one semester while a US student courses are done throughout the entire year.
Focusing on classroom size, the inability to drop classes, credit hours, medical students not looking like medical students, having to go to 90% of classes blah blah..
Do what you have to do --> You will finish your first 2 years. Focusing on those things is obvious why someone would not make it.

3. Yes, there is a research paper. I wouldn't label it as Med 6. You can't do clinical spots without completing the paper and having it approved. Yes, its probably because they have limited clinical spots. Just do it and get it over with. It's tedious and time consuming and time could and should be spend studying for step. But you have to do, what you have to do... to do what you want to do. The end

4. Prior to leaving the island we have to take a "Comp" exam. Comp exam is suppose to simulate Step 1. If you can't pass Comp you probably won't pass Step 1. That simple. Plenty of people do not pass comp and have to return to the island 3.5 months later to take it again. Yes, it may feel like the end of the world but plenty of people have done it before you.. so why can't you. You are good enough, with hard work and prayer you will pass. I believe you have 3 chances to pass Comp. If you don't then you are kicked out.

5. You will never meet the executive dean or associate dean. They are just names for status. They may appear at graduation and you will wonder who the hell are these people. MUA gives them some money to put their picture and name on their website. They have no idea what is going on at MUA and they surely do not care. Dr. T****man is the clinical dean who you will have contact with and She is the Devil. Whatever you experienced on the island was child's play compared to the hell she can put you through.

6. After you pass step 1 (hopefully well) you start rotations. The hospitals may be the worst but its seriously what you make it. You can BS and get an A.. you can work hard and get an A. After each core you have a Shelf exam. Even if you get an A in your actual rotation, if you fail your shelf... You fail. You have to retake the shelf and sometimes it can take 2-3 months to reschedule it. This process will frustrate you. Then you wonder does this place even have my best interest, do they actually want you to be successful and become a doctor. Also, you do not know the passing score of the shelf exam and they consistently change it. I've asked some of my US med school friends and there passing shelf score was lower which is ridiculous. After you successfully pass all shelf exams and do your "homework assignments" you can sit for Step 2. Now, I believe their is some rule that if you did not get a min 250 on Step 1, you also have to take a Comp for step 2 at a prometric center. Does it hold you back... hell yea. But I am a firm believer that if you can't pass Comp... you won't pass the real Step 2. You also have to take a Step 2 CS practice course through Kaplan which requires you to fly to New Jersey (no matter where you are located). Kaplan is located everywhere... yet you have to waste more money to fly to New Jersey for a day. If you do not pass the Practice Step 2 CS through Kaplan.. you have purchase the full course which is like 1,500 or something.

7. I am not sure how or why PRE-Clinical grades matter. I mean you obviously shouldn't do terrible. If you do terrible, you will be kicked out anyway. But no one sees your pre-Clinical grades until your MSPE. And MPSE is not important for a FMG (according to a PD). It is about your scores, scores, scores, scores, then research/other post-grad degrees etc. Some American schools have pass/fail but not all.

8. MUA is not a Big 4/5. But it is the closet to it. The best and only good thing about the school are the students. Once you weed out the students who should have never been there in the first place.. they are really hard working. You have to be on another level mentally, self-motivator, have family/friend support..... to finish from this f***ked school. With that being said, I've heard horror stories from plenty of Caribbean schools.

9. Yes.. Getting surgery at Hopkins coming from MUA is rare. Hell it's rare for any school.. it is Hopkins. I personally know people who have matched in much more than FM and IM. Meds-Peds, Anesthesiology, Path, Neurology, ER to name a few. Yes, it may have taken more than one ERAS application but that is the risk you take.

If you put in the work and Make it ALL the way through, you will be successful. Yes, it may take an extra year or two but it will happen.
At the end of the day.. the biggest barrier is Step scores. If you do well on Step 1 and 2, you will Match. It may not be into Dermatology or Neurosurgery (if you wanted those you probably should not have became a FMG anyway) but you can still get a residency that is considered competitive.

All The Best.. on your future endeavors.

Just out of pure curiosity, what did you match into? just specialty no name or anything obviously

 

[aformerstudent]

This is great to hear! I mean that you think the school sucks too and you're a graduate!

1. It is untrue that only the TOP students match. Students do Match, however their are a great deal who do not. This does not inspire any confidence. How much is a great deal?

2. Yes... The courses of Med 1 to Med 5 are condensed into one semester while a US student courses are done throughout the entire year.
Focusing on classroom size, the inability to drop classes, credit hours, medical students not looking like medical students, having to go to 90% of classes blah blah..
Do what you have to do --> You will finish your first 2 years. Focusing on those things is obvious why someone would not make it. I wouldn't call it focusing. I mean those things are there and they would be questioned by any reasonable person.

3. Yes, there is a research paper. I wouldn't label it as Med 6. You can't do clinical spots without completing the paper and having it approved. Yes, its probably because they have limited clinical spots. Just do it and get it over with. It's tedious and time consuming and time could and should be spend studying for step. But you have to do, what you have to do... to do what you want to do. The end You know it's not as easy as you are making it to seem. I personally think that paper screws A LOT of people over.

4. ...I believe you have 3 chances to pass Comp. If you don't then you are kicked out. You are leaving out the part where you have to score a certain percentage higher on each subsequent exam and the exam already has a very high minimum score. My sources say it is at 70 as of today.

5. You will never meet the executive dean or associate dean. They are just names for status. They may appear at graduation and you will wonder who the hell are these people. MUA gives them some money to put their picture and name on their website This explains it all! They have no idea what is going on at MUA and they surely do not care. Dr. T****man is the clinical dean who you will have contact with and She is the Devil. I know she is, I met her a few times. Something was off with her. Whatever you experienced on the island was child's play compared to the hell she can put you through. Good to know I left that hellhole!

6. After you pass step 1 (hopefully well) you start rotations. The hospitals may be the worst but its seriously what you make it. You can BS and get an A.. you can work hard and get an A. After each core you have a Shelf exam. Even if you get an A in your actual rotation, if you fail your shelf... You fail. You have to retake the shelf and sometimes it can take 2-3 months to reschedule it. This process will frustrate you. Then you wonder does this place even have my best interest, do they actually want you to be successful and become a doctor. Also, you do not know the passing score of the shelf exam and they consistently change it. I've asked some of my US med school friends and there passing shelf score was lower which is ridiculous. After you successfully pass all shelf exams and do your "homework assignments" you can sit for Step 2. Now, I believe their is some rule that if you did not get a min 250 on Step 1, you also have to take a Comp for step 2 at a prometric center. Does it hold you back... hell yea. But I am a firm believer that if you can't pass Comp... you won't pass the real Step 2. You also have to take a Step 2 CS practice course through Kaplan which requires you to fly to New Jersey (no matter where you are located). Kaplan is located everywhere... yet you have to waste more money to fly to New Jersey for a day. If you do not pass the Practice Step 2 CS through Kaplan.. you have purchase the full course which is like 1,500 or something. This section has to be read very slowly by any prospective student.

7. I am not sure how or why PRE-Clinical grades matter. Current Dean of Students said they mattered and they mattered a lot. Proactive as I am, I met with a PD through one of my connections and she said she screens by pre-clinical grades as well. That's a program filled by IMG's and FMG's too. I mean you obviously shouldn't do terrible. If you do terrible, you will be kicked out anyway. But no one sees your pre-Clinical grades until your MSPE. And MPSE is not important for a FMG (according to a PD). It is about your scores, scores, scores, scores, then research/other post-grad degrees etc. Some American schools have pass/fail but not all.

8. MUA is not a Big 4/5. But it is the closet to it. The best and only good thing about the school are the students. Once you weed out the students who should have never been there in the first place. Well everybody comes there with a dream so that's not fair. they are really hard working. You have to be on another level mentally, self-motivator, have family/friend support..... to finish from this f***ked school. True, no offense to you or anything but I've worked with US MD and DO students and I've gone to school with MUA students; I would never compare an MUA student to a US student; I pointed it out before, they look trashy for some reason. And I'm being serious, I don't know where they recruit some of these kids. With that being said, I've heard horror stories from plenty of Caribbean schools.

9. Yes.. Getting surgery at Hopkins coming from MUA is rare. Hell it's rare for any school.. it is Hopkins. I personally know people who have matched in much more than FM and IM. Meds-Peds, Anesthesiology, Path, Neurology, ER to name a few. Yes, it may have taken more than one ERAS application but that is the risk you take. All outliers. I even want to know how many of those IM spots are community-based.

If you put in the work and Make it ALL the way through, you will be successful. Yes, it may take an extra year or two but it will happen. Yes, but how will you explain that to the PD's?

It's good to hear from someone on the other side but your experience seems downright scarier than I even imagined.

 

[treefriend]

The truth of the matter is that the majority of the pre-meds who opine on here about all things med school in the US vs anywhere else, will only actually make it into a med school if they donate their bodies as cadavers.

LOL..