Medicine for the Money?

[mcatjelly]

It may depend on the patient population. You might see some different "ailments" working in the rural/burb areas vs. an urban city hospital. I wouldn't be surprised at their being a much higher concentration of serious pathology in the latter, where you can practice in that highly rewarding fashion you've described.

Often times in the burbs at least it can simply just be dealing with 1st world problems all day. I could think of very few people that would tolerate such a patient population day in and day out. However, if you would still find this enjoyable, more power to you. You are definitely needed.

Working inpatient will give you severe pathology no matter where you go!

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[StudyLater]

Working inpatient will give you severe pathology no matter where you go!

Sorry. I should have said I was referring to outpatient pp.

 

[Seth Joo]

You should specify which issues you are talking about

A good loving traditional family would help a lot of people, also good spirituality. This is something that is sorely missing in this modern society where divorce is over 50 percent and many kids grow up with only one parent, many people live alone without a good community.

 

[Glazedonutlove]

That's a cultural difference. Not sure how much impact mental illness may have. @Mad Jack would probably know more

 

[Mad Jack]

That's a cultural difference. Not sure how much impact mental illness may have. @Mad Jack would probably know more

I'd love to discuss it more, but not in this thread. Let's stick to the topic at hand, medicine and money.

 

[Glazedonutlove]

That reminds me, I should stop procrastinating on sdn and get back to work

 

[StudyLater]

A good loving traditional family would help a lot of people, also good spirituality. This is something that is sorely missing in this modern society where divorce is over 50 percent and many kids grow up with only one parent, many people live alone without a good community.

Yeah being alone is f*cked up. You wake up ready to take on the world, then you fail and have no one to talk to about how much you suck, then you cry into your pillow for an hour swearing you're worthless, then you slap yourself out of it, then you work out, do your hw (if you feel like it but it could probably wait until tomorrow cuz you've got like 2hrs before class in the morning), watch some TV/netflix, then go to bed. All in a day's work for the average isolated person. Wouldn't know about that personally, though. I have friends, family, and a God that loves me.

I'd love to discuss it more, but not in this thread. Let's stick to the topic at hand, medicine and money.

I would go psych if they gave me a discount on adderall.

 

[Seth Joo]

Yeah being alone is f*cked up. You wake up ready to take on the world, then you fail and have no one to talk to about how much you suck, then you cry into your pillow for an hour swearing you're worthless, then you slap yourself out of it, then you work out, do your hw (if you feel like it but it could probably wait until tomorrow cuz you've got like 2hrs before class in the morning), watch some TV/netflix, then go to bed. All in a day's work for the average isolated person. Wouldn't know about that personally, though. I have friends, family, and a God that loves me.



I would go psych if they gave me a discount on adderall.

That is why traditional societies are superior, you have lower rates of Psychiatric disorders in countries with more traditional cultures than in Western countries. Psychiatry has become a replacement for traditional family support systems in America and other Western nations, hence the high levels of the population with Psychiatric disorders in developed nations vs developing nations. Gee I wonder why?

 

[Glazedonutlove]

Do you think it could be because people in developed nations actually have money/opportunity/less stigma and more support to take care of psychological needs? I actually agree that in developing countries psychological needs are not as emphasized. But a part of that could be because they have much more pressing worries to address.

The marriage thing though is a culture thing in my opinion. In other cultures, you stick it out for children/upholding reputation in society. Here, personal happiness>> all of that. Not saying either one is more correct, just a difference in culture expectations.

 

[el_duderino]

That is why traditional societies are superior, you have lower rates of Psychiatric disorders in countries with more traditional cultures than in Western countries. Psychiatry has become a replacement for traditional family support systems in America and other Western nations, hence the high levels of the population with Psychiatric disorders in developed nations vs developing nations. Gee I wonder why?

Oh like Japan? They're known for their extremely low rates of mental illness, depression, etc.

Seriously, you have to be careful comparing psychiatric conditions between nations. Mental illness has a stigma virtually everywhere, but it's extremely variable. Some places grossly underdiagnose or even fail to acknowledge mental disorders. People in developing nations also have to worry about infectious disease, clean water, shelter, and violence before they worry about ADD or something.

 

[Psai]

I have a hard time viewing Psychiatrists as Physicians, it seems like people who undergo Psychiatric care usually wind up worse rather than better. Our society seems fond of pushing drugs to solve problems in place of social and spiritual solutions that can help people with emotional problems.

Sounds like someone who has never done a psych rotation

 

[Seth Joo]

Oh like Japan? They're known for their extremely low rates of mental illness, depression, etc.

Seriously, you have to be careful comparing psychiatric conditions between nations. Mental illness has a stigma virtually everywhere, but it's extremely variable. Some places grossly underdiagnose or even fail to acknowledge mental disorders. People in developing nations also have to worry about infectious disease, clean water, shelter, and violence before they worry about ADD or something.

Japan is a modern country for your information, I am talking about traditional societies. Modernization in many ways has screwed up Japanese society, and yes they have a high rate of mental illness there. I think France has the most depressed people of any country out there, it really puzzled me because I thought France was a nice place.

 

[Glazedonutlove]

Oh like Japan? They're known for their extremely low rates of mental illness, depression, etc.

Seriously, you have to be careful comparing psychiatric conditions between nations. Mental illness has a stigma virtually everywhere, but it's extremely variable. Some places grossly underdiagnose or even fail to acknowledge mental disorders. People in developing nations also have to worry about infectious disease, clean water, shelter, and violence before they worry about ADD or something.

Maybe you were only referring to a specific population but I just need to point out something. Do people here honestly believe developing nations are nothing but villages that lack running water and basic shelter? There are many developed cities that (surprise!) have showers, air conditioning, cars, and other measures of comfort. These people, middle class citizens like most of you, go to college/grad schools and become doctors, engineers, respectable educated people.

When I said they have other pressing needs, I meant in terms of inflation, financial struggles paying for children's education, corruption. Many, many people do struggle for water and electricity but just wanted to clarify that this is not the case for everyone. They are called developing countries for a reason.

 

[Seth Joo]

Maybe you were only referring to a specific population but I just need to point out something. Do people here honestly believe developing nations are nothing but villages that lack running water and basic shelter? There are many developed cities that (surprise!) have showers, air conditioning, cars, and other measures of comfort. These people, middle class citizens like most of you, go to college/grad schools and become doctors, engineers, respectable educated people.

When I said they have other pressing needs, I meant in terms of inflation, financial struggles paying for children's education, corruption. Many, many people do struggle for water and electricity but just wanted to clarify that this is not the case for everyone. They are called developing countries for a reason.

Its more common to see a traditional family structure in a developing country today in 2015 than in the United States or many Western European nations, somehow I do not think many children growing up in single parent divorced homes are going grow up into happy adults. I am so thankful that I grew up in a traditional household, my mother respected my father, many of my friends were not so lucky.

 

[Glazedonutlove]

Its more common to see a traditional family structure in a developing country today in 2015 than in the United States or many Western European nations, somehow I do not think many children growing up in single parent divorced homes are going grow up into happy adults. I am so thankful that I grew up in a traditional household, my mother respected my father, many of my friends were not so lucky.

I don't even know why you are quoting me when our posts are completely unrelated.

Anyways, maybe "traditional" for you means a wife who blindly respects her husband (your words came off that way) but yay for you.

 

[Seth Joo]

I don't even know why you are quoting me when our posts are completely unrelated.

Anyways, maybe "traditional" for you means a wife who blindly respects her husband (your words came off that way) but yay for you.

Well its actually true that children who come from divorced homes tend to have more issues, particularly psychological and other social issues growing up and into adulthood, many wind up with a negative view of marriage and other forms of family as a result. My dad respected my mom too. I was watching this documentary about children in divorced families, man it was depressing.

 

[mimelim]

I love psychiatric patients, personally. Most of them anyway.

I agree that many medical students could fare as well or better outside of medicine, but I feel like medicine is also a field that attracts people that are smart but often not creative enough to be trailblazers in business and the like. People that are drawn to established paradigms rather than those that would choose to make their own. For those types, it's their big shot at being the boss with a clear, established path to success, without all the guesswork and risk of the business or financial world. There's certainly a good number of medical students that would be wildly successful in such endeavors, but there's probably just as many that would not, hence the risk aversion that sent many to medicine in the first place (but again, not all, because many are drawn to the non-financial aspects of medicine).

I believe you. I think that for the right people, psychiatry can be tremendously rewarding. And further, it is one of the most necessary specialties out there. From a cynic's perspective, it allows for others in healthcare to focus on other things knowing that someone else is handling the psychiatric issues. From a humanist perspective, it is one of the areas that we as a society historically have needed to do a lot better.

@mimelim My friend told me I would a total ***** for even considering spending 6k to apply to med school in the first place lol
(reading average costs of 5-8k)

Depending on your stats/application, I would agree or disagree with them. There are a large number of pre-meds applying to medical school who have less than a 50% chance of ever matriculating. Should they still apply? Debatable, but if you have the funds, people can do whatever they want. But, what about the people with less than 30%? What about less than 5%? At least with tuition, you can bank on knowing that your school is going to try to drag you along to graduate and get into residency because it is in their interests to do so. Even though it is a lot more than application fees are, you are going to be an MD at the end of the day and be able to pay down your loans and live comfortably with few exceptions. But, at least 3-4 times a year I have told pre-meds (and their parents) in person that they would be better served by gap years, SMPs, etc. It just depends on the applicant.

 

[StudyLater]

That is why traditional societies are superior, you have lower rates of Psychiatric disorders in countries with more traditional cultures than in Western countries. Psychiatry has become a replacement for traditional family support systems in America and other Western nations, hence the high levels of the population with Psychiatric disorders in developed nations vs developing nations. Gee I wonder why?

The rate of psychiatric disorders in the 15th century was zero. Therefore, we should go back to warring aristocratic societies with church rule. I'd be happy to pay a 30% tithe for the sake of eradicating all psychological dysfunction in my fellow citizens.

Clearly this line of logic is sound.

 

[el_duderino]

Maybe you were only referring to a specific population but I just need to point out something. Do people here honestly believe developing nations are nothing but villages that lack running water and basic shelter? There are many developed cities that (surprise!) have showers, air conditioning, cars, and other measures of comfort. These people, middle class citizens like most of you, go to college/grad schools and become doctors, engineers, respectable educated people.

When I said they have other pressing needs, I meant in terms of inflation, financial struggles paying for children's education, corruption. Many, many people do struggle for water and electricity but just wanted to clarify that this is not the case for everyone. They are called developing countries for a reason.

No, but on an epidemiological scale those things are highly significant.

 

[StudyLater]

I am so thankful that I grew up in a traditional household, my mother respected my father

I love the blatant omission of the inverse statement. I know I know I'm sure he respected her but....this just made me laugh sorry.

Anyways, maybe "traditional" for you means a wife who blindly respects her husband (your words came off that way) but yay for you.

Darn. I can't abuse my SO/spouse and expect her to stay with me. What the hell happened to modern society? No values.

 

[Glazedonutlove]

No, but on an epidemiological scale those things are highly significant.

Nice save

 

[Dr.Sticks]

@mimelim Yeah I agree with you..
That's why I'm being really obsessive about my grade/EC activities at the moment. I wouldn't be able to afford a 2nd cycle.. no way

 

[StudyLater]

@mimelim Yeah I agree with you..
That's why I'm being really obsessive about my grade/EC activities at the moment. I wouldn't be able to afford a 2nd cycle.. no way

Unless...

 

[writing]

Man 40hrs in the library studying for calc. Med school is going to be a breeze after that.

Does med school involve analysis and proofs? I've never heard of med students being given a 2 hour exam with 5 problems...

From what I've read, the material not that difficult. Volume of information is the problem.

 

[Petrichor1]

30-40k a year is enough income. My point was that comparing oneself to the average american isn't really fair; best to compare yourself to someone who has gone through similar training and pursuits.

200k is enough, but depending on your specialty it's on the lower end. Personally, if I do become a physician, I would want the skills and experience to push for the highest wages possible.

I do understand that salary is not a direct result of skill. Business and market conditions also play a role.



I agree. Here's a better way to phrase it; there is a greater demand for specialists (and physicians in general) than there is for most careers the average american is in.

30-40k is really hard to digest after taxes buddy. You can't survive on that everywhere you go. Most jobs pay that amount after a lot of exhausting toil.

 

[writing]

30-40k is really hard to digest after taxes buddy. You can't survive on that everywhere you go. Most jobs pay that amount after a lot of exhausting toil.

I will never understand this. There are families that live on 30k. What do you think people outside of medicine or white collar professions (law, engineering, etc.) do?
I grew up in a rural area, and won't be moving to NYC or LA anytime soon, but let's look at the salaries there.

Here is New York:
http://data.newsday.com/long-island/data/business/personal-income/
Average state salary is $50k and depending on the county, it dips to $30k.

I won't be living in Manhattan on 40k, but I certainly won't be worrying about food or water.

 

[Petrichor1]

I will never understand this. There are families that live on 30k. What do you think people outside of medicine or white collar professions (law, engineering, etc.) do?
I grew up in a rural area, and won't be moving to NYC or LA anytime soon, but let's look at the salaries there.

Here is New York:
http://data.newsday.com/long-island/data/business/personal-income/
Average state salary is $50k and depending on the county, it dips to $30k.

I won't be living in Manhattan on 40k, but I certainly won't be worrying about food or water.

you live, and that is the benefit from such an income. After taxes, most you take home is usually sub 29k. If you consider a family of 4 with 2 children heading to college, and consider the fact that neither of the kids are bright enough to obtain much funds or whatever, what are their prospects? On top of that, I will garner that your place of residence may not be the best growing up either. For wherever you have grown, your parents must have saved up quite a bit, maybe never taken you to disneyland or whatever because they must have worried about giving you the needful.