Medicine vs Other Healthcare Careers

[chem eng for now]

Hello non trads,

I've been working as an engineer for the past 4 years since I finished undergrad. For about the past year or so, I've been having a lot of thoughts about changing careers to something healthcare related. Working for a big oil/chemical company does nothing for me except provide a nice paychek. I find engineering work generally uninteresting and squeezing a few more $ of profit out of an old plant for a big company does not interest me. Also, I just learned that my company will be doing a round of layoffs in the next few months, so it looks like this is going to be an opportunity for me to get things moving.

Much of my desire to work in healthcare is due to my own medical history which is significant and a drive to help people in similar situations. I've been volunteering for the past 6 or so months at both a local hospital and the local Ronald McDonald House. I'm confident that a change is right thing for me.

However, I can't seem to decide if I want to pursue nursing or medicine. I think deep down a lot of my desire to be a doc is that I have this image in my head of someone overcoming what I have health wise and then becoming a doc being a great story. However, I don't really want my job or schooling to overtake my life (apologies if I offended anyone by this statement, but this is the general feeling I get from reading med school forums). Would love to hear if your experience has been otherwise. I am attracted to nursing due to shorter schooling, work life balance, and greater patient interaction time. Also the ability to fairly easily change specialties. I understand the difference in knowledge base and don't mind not being the one making the major decisions. Money is not a primary motivator for me.

When I weigh the pros and cons for me personally, I feel like nursing wins. However, I have this nagging thought that I am selling myself short by not pursing med school and going all the way. I realize this a not a positive way of thinking, but egos can be powerful things. Did any of you have similar thoughts about med vs other careers in healthcare when choosing your path? What tipped the scales in favor of med for you?

Thank you

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[deleted480308]

If you don't want it to consume your life for ~8yrs, go nursing

 

[Darth Doc]

Many intelligent nurses end up going the NP route because they don't actually like nursing anymore. Talk to some NPs and PAs too about what they like. PA school would be a shorter route for you than nursing. About a year of full-time work as an EMT, CNA, etc... plus a few prerequisites and you could apply to PA school since you already have the Bachelors degree. For me, I wanted to be able to do more for my patients, so I'm working my way from PA to MD. There are a lot of choices in the medical field, consider more than two before you make your final decision.

 

[NoTownPreMed]

Many intelligent nurses end up going the NP route because they don't actually like nursing anymore. Talk to some NPs and PAs too about what they like. PA school would be a shorter route for you than nursing. About a year of full-time work as an EMT, CNA, etc... plus a few prerequisites and you could apply to PA school since you already have the Bachelors degree. For me, I wanted to be able to do more for my patients, so I'm working my way from PA to MD. There are a lot of choices in the medical field, consider more than two before you make your final decision.

That's some of the problem my nursing peers are facing. Once they've chosen the RN to NP route, after practicing a few years, they regret not taking the MD/DO route.

 

[Darth Doc]

That's some of the problem my nursing peers are facing. Once they've chosen the RN to NP route, after practicing a few years, they regret not taking the MD/DO route.

It's only 2 more years of school. You get paid the same (about) in either nursing or residency, but when you're done there are so many more opportunities with an MD. I have legislative opportunities for change that I never had as a PA. The MD degree carries a degree of respect and knowledge that allows us to make a difference in fields outside of direct patient care. (I tried writing books as a PA, but no publisher was interested. I was told that if I had a MD then they would be published.)

 

[DrMidlife]

I've been talking to URM high school kids recently about health careers, so I've been working on some generalizations to try to help break this down.

1. You can only have one number one priority. Once you have a family to take care of, your career satisfaction, your contribution to society, your commitment to serve, your perception of the usefulness of the product of your work or its meaningfulness, these things can't be your prime directive anymore. For some people, your number one priority for your job is the ability to make a secure living. For some people, your ability to spend time with your family, or to drop everything to be able to take care of your family, becomes top priority. This can vary over time, day to day or year to year. But at the planning stages, before you have a family commitment or a career commitment, it's important to respect the way your priorities necessarily shift when you have a family.

2. Most people have a family. Most? Wait, am I maybe going to decide I don't want to have kids, or forget to have them, or just end up not having them? Should I factor this into my career decisions? Much hand-wringing, and much bet-hedging, and much bafflement happens here. I try to communicate that something like 1 in 10 or 1 in 5 people don't have kids, and that some of those folks do so by choice. Here's an article with some good tables. As per usual, the focus is on women not men, but if you look around you'll see that men average 10-15% childlessness and women average 15-20% childlessness. http://www.pewsocialtrends.org/2015...amily-size-grows-among-highly-educated-women/

3. There's no good way to predict how you'll feel 10 years from now, whether you're in residency 10 years from now, or you're in nursing practice 10 years from now. For men who are less concerned about the viability of ovaries, it's less of a quandary to consider delaying parenthood in favor of taking on a minimum of 11 years of additional training to get to the goal income and goal responsibility. It's less of a quandary to contemplate failing on the way to med school, or to contemplate regret for not "aiming higher" than nursing.

4. I'm finding that if you take the gender out of the stereotype, the stereotypes are more helpful for career planning. Are you going to be a deeply involved parent who wants to stay home with a newborn, coach soccer, maybe homeschool, and/or be willing to depend on a spouse for income? Are you going to be a less deeply involved parent who concentrates on income for the family in lieu of hands-on parenting, possibly at the risk of alienating your spouse/children if your communication and nurturing skills are not so great? (The whole other can of worms here is "if you know now that you would prioritize job over family, what responsibility do you bear to communicate that to a future spouse?")

5. The stepwise nature of nursing is a profound difference in the nursing vs. medicine choice. For a high schooler considering a health career, they can make progress in 2 year chunks, with greater income at the end of each chunk (LP, CNA, RN, BSN, CRNA, NP, DNP etc). If medicine is the goal, you effectively "go away" for 11-20 years before you see income from all that training. Taking a lengthy pause on the path to NP/PA/CRNA is normal. Taking a lengthy pause in med school or in residency, relatively speaking, can close a lot of doors.

6. You can always change your mind. But changing your mind means a loss of investment. To some extent you can make good initial bets on which investments will hold their value as your life priorities change. Such as: nobody can take an earned degree or its benefits away from you. Finishing a bachelors, with a commitment to that bachelors a stronger goal than the planned career on the other side, is an excellent investment regardless of life changes. For the OP with an engineering degree and a resume, this initial investment is already in the can.

tl;dr: for the OP, 7-10 years from now you can be practicing medicine, paying off debt, and putting money away, if you focus on medicine at the cost of other things you don't yet know you might want to do during those 7-10 years. Or, 2-6 years from now you can be practicing as an NP or PA, paying off less debt, making about the same money as you are now, and you can reasonably assume success in that RN/NP/PA/CRNA career with concurrent major life priorities.

I have no idea if the above is helpful as generic advice in this forum, and I'd love feedback from other "elders" on the truth in it.

 

[bornunderatree]

As a male cardiac critical nurse (for three years) accepted to medical school this upcoming fall, I'll share my thoughts.

Nursing is amazing. The barrier to entry is much lower than medicine (fiscally and temporally). The opportunities that exist are immense, as nursing envelopes so many different specialty areas (med-surg to critical care to community to OR to leadership to research). The potential to make a real tangible difference in men and women's lives in real. You can find the niche you love, no matter what.

That said, education will take longer than "two years" even at the associates level. As an engineer, I anticipate that at a minimum it would take three years. (1 year for random biology / anatomy / microbio / organic chem / human development / nutrition pre-reqs)

Many of these prerequisites overlap with medicine. You are in a unique position as an engineer. You would likely spend similar time preparing for prerequisites for medicine vs nursing.

However, temporally, you would be at the bedside "touching people" much faster as a nurse.
Fiscally, you would be at the bedside with much less money as a nurse.

With those barriers addressed, the main difference between nursing vs medicine is who is the captain of the ship. Advance practice nurses still answer to a physician when the clinical picture is gray.

If your goal is to make a difference in men and women's lives, go nursing. If your goal is to exercise clinical judgement in unclear situations go medicine.

 

[chem eng for now]

Thanks for the responses everyone

Many intelligent nurses end up going the NP route because they don't actually like nursing anymore. Talk to some NPs and PAs too about what they like. PA school would be a shorter route for you than nursing. About a year of full-time work as an EMT, CNA, etc... plus a few prerequisites and you could apply to PA school since you already have the Bachelors degree. For me, I wanted to be able to do more for my patients, so I'm working my way from PA to MD. There are a lot of choices in the medical field, consider more than two before you make your final decision.

I should have specified in the OP, I'm in Canada which affects a couple things. From what I understand PA is not nearly as common or established in the healthcare system here as it is in the US, and it's still unclear how the government wants to fund PA positions. At this point I understand my options to be nursing, MD, Pharm, or some sort of tech. Pharm and tech roles do not interest me. Am I missing any other choices?

tl;dr: for the OP, 7-10 years from now you can be practicing medicine, paying off debt, and putting money away, if you focus on medicine at the cost of other things you don't yet know you might want to do during those 7-10 years. Or, 2-6 years from now you can be practicing as an NP or PA, paying off less debt, making about the same money as you are now, and you can reasonably assume success in that RN/NP/PA/CRNA career with concurrent major life priorities.
.

Thanks DrMidlife. Lots there to think about

As a male cardiac critical nurse (for three years) accepted to medical school this upcoming fall, I'll share my thoughts.

Nursing is amazing. The barrier to entry is much lower than medicine (fiscally and temporally). The opportunities that exist are immense, as nursing envelopes so many different specialty areas (med-surg to critical care to community to OR to leadership to research). The potential to make a real tangible difference in men and women's lives in real. You can find the niche you love, no matter what.

That said, education will take longer than "two years" even at the associates level. As an engineer, I anticipate that at a minimum it would take three years. (1 year for random biology / anatomy / microbio / organic chem / human development / nutrition pre-reqs)

Many of these prerequisites overlap with medicine. You are in a unique position as an engineer. You would likely spend similar time preparing for prerequisites for medicine vs nursing.

However, temporally, you would be at the bedside "touching people" much faster as a nurse.
Fiscally, you would be at the bedside with much less money as a nurse.

With those barriers addressed, the main difference between nursing vs medicine is who is the captain of the ship. Advance practice nurses still answer to a physician when the clinical picture is gray.

If your goal is to make a difference in men and women's lives, go nursing. If your goal is to exercise clinical judgement in unclear situations go medicine.

You're right, I'll need a year of prereqs no matter which way I go. Nursing would be a year of prereqs, then hopefully get into a competitive 2 year RN compressed program. With med, it would be a year of prereqs/gpa boosting, and then hopefully get into med school. I would be able to apply to either midway during my year of prereqs. I also feel like my chances of getting into each are fairly similar, making the decision a little more blurry.

Do you mind expanding on the comment about making a difference in people's lives vs exercising clinical judgment?

What was the primary driver for you making the switch?

Thanks

 

[bornunderatree]

Do you mind expanding on the comment about making a difference in people's lives vs exercising clinical judgment?

What was the primary driver for you making the switch?

Sometimes the most important thing a patient needs is their legs shaved, or hair washed. Or to be comfortable when dying. Or to be quickly defibrillated when they are in VF. Nurses do those things. Not doctors.

On the other hand, deciding to take a patient to emergent bypass surgery who might die from the surgery vs taking the chance they might die without taking them to surgery is truly the work of a physician.

I'm incredibly satisfied being part of defining moments of life and death in patients lives. However, I want to make hard decisions.

I want to feel what it's like to have made a gamble and it didn't play out. How do you sleep at night? How do you do better next time? Those are my motivations for going into medicine.

Pursuing medicine for me will be an opportunity to grow spiritually. To have an enlightened and burdened view of life and death.

 

[Crayola227]

Hello non trads,

Thank you

Nothing you said makes me think you should change fields to medicine.

Go do work in hospice, memory care, elderly caregiving (and I mean asswiping) for a significant # of hours per week, and tell me you feel a soul-deep connection with the incurable disgusting bodily and mental suffering of others, to where you are finding consistent fulfillment in just whatever you can do to alleviate that, even in the most seemingly inane or not even directly related ways. That for every minute you might lay hands on something and affect it, you will do at least 30 of bull**** paperwork for the privilege.

It's not enough to have a good story and overcome your own health struggles.

After literally years of ~40-80 hrs per week of self-neglect, occupational stress, and never-ending human suffering, you really can picture still deriving some satisfaction out of getting off your butt for the 10,000 step that day that decade just to bring someone ice chips, (goes for MD or RN)

then do it

If you don't do medicine for Mother Teresa-like reasons, then it will just be another well-paying job, which you already have. You may think that the nature of the work will fulfill you in a way that the bottom line of an engineering company won't, but depending on a lot of things, you might actually find this change more distressing.

Medicine is the hardest on those that don't care enough, that care too much, and care for the wrong reasons.

Do it because you are called to it. Because it is an addiction to be a caregiver in this particular manner (continued pursuit in the face of increasing harms). It is something you would do if you weren't paid. Because 9/10 times if it's a choice between any single thing that matters to you, including your loved ones, you'll still pick to help a stranger like this. Do it because you were born to do it. Do it because you can't die not having done it, because you would rather die than not do it. This is like joining the military, there is no guarantee you make it back alive or in any kind of shape. I'm serious.

I've been working as an engineer for the past 4 years since I finished undergrad. For about the past year or so, I've been having a lot of thoughts about changing careers to something healthcare related. Working for a big oil/chemical company does nothing for me except provide a nice paychek. (medicine can easily become this for people who often find themselves disillusioned at how much they can actually effect in medicine vs what the potential is that is unrealized because society & reality = bitch) I find engineering work generally uninteresting (medicine can easily become this. Boredom with current career the WORST reason to ever switch to medicine) and squeezing a few more $ of profit out of an old plant for a big company does not interest me. Also, I just learned that my company will be doing a round of layoffs in the next few months, so it looks like this is going to be an opportunity for me to get things moving

Much of my desire to work in healthcare is due to my own medical history which is significant and a drive to help people in similar situations. I've been volunteering for the past 6 or so months at both a local hospital and the local Ronald McDonald House. I'm confident that a change is right thing for me.
(Change is not enough. Your own history could be a good reason, could be crappy reason. Being a patient and being a provider are not as related as some think).

However, I can't seem to decide if I want to pursue nursing or medicine. I think deep down a lot of my desire to be a doc is that I have this image in my head of someone overcoming what I have health wise and then becoming a doc being a great story. However, I don't really want my job or schooling to overtake my life (apologies if I offended anyone by this statement, but this is the general feeling I get from reading med school forums). Would love to hear if your experience has been otherwise. (nope, that's not how it works) I am attracted to nursing due to shorter schooling, work life balance, and greater patient interaction time. Also the ability to fairly easily change specialties. I understand the difference in knowledge base and don't mind not being the one making the major decisions. Money is not a primary motivator for me.

When I weigh the pros and cons for me personally, I feel like nursing wins. However, I have this nagging thought that I am selling myself short by not pursing med school and going all the way. I realize this a not a positive way of thinking, but egos can be powerful things. Did any of you have similar thoughts about med vs other careers in healthcare when choosing your path? What tipped the scales in favor of med for you?

These last two paragraphs scream at me, RUN FROM THE MEDICAL PROFESSION. Prestige is a great perk, it cannot sustain you in any way shape or form in this field.

All of the bolded are red flags to me.


*OP asked for thoughts and opinions. The above is food for thought.

 

[BombsAway]

Nothing you said makes me think you should change fields to medicine.

Go do work in hospice, memory care, elderly caregiving (and I mean asswiping) for a significant # of hours per week, and tell me you feel a soul-deep connection with the incurable disgusting bodily and mental suffering of others, to where you are finding consistent fulfillment in just whatever you can do to alleviate that, even in the most seemingly inane or not even directly related ways. That for every minute you might lay hands on something and affect it, you will do at least 30 of bull**** paperwork for the privilege.

It's not enough to have a good story and overcome your own health struggles.

After literally years of ~40-80 hrs per week of self-neglect, occupational stress, and never-ending human suffering, you really can picture still deriving some satisfaction out of getting off your butt for the 10,000 step that day that decade just to bring someone ice chips, (goes for MD or RN)

then do it

If you don't do medicine for Mother Teresa-like reasons, then it will just be another well-paying job, which you already have. You may think that the nature of the work will fulfill you in a way that the bottom line of an engineering company won't, but depending on a lot of things, you might actually find this change more distressing.

Medicine is the hardest on those that don't care enough, that care too much, and care for the wrong reasons.

Do it because you are called to it. Because it is an addiction to be a caregiver in this particular manner (continued pursuit in the face of increasing harms). It is something you would do if you weren't paid. Because 9/10 times if it's a choice between any single thing that matters to you, including your loved ones, you'll still pick to help a stranger like this. Do it because you were born to do it. Do it because you can't die not having done it, because you would rather die than not do it. This is like joining the military, there is no guarantee you make it back alive or in any kind of shape. I'm serious.

All of the bolded are red flags to me.
*OP asked for thoughts and opinions. The above is food for thought.

That was a really great post. I often wonder though, when reading these sorts of sentiments from physicians, if they are aware that other jobs suck as well? Firefighters get called out of bed at 2AM, mcdonalds workers get treated poorly by their customers, janitors work hard to clean the spots they know will be freshly soiled the next day.

I agree with everything you said. I just wonder if maybe you had it dialed to a 10 rather than the 8 it deserved.

 

[Crayola227]

That was a really great post. I often wonder though, when reading these sorts of sentiments from physicians, if they are aware that other jobs suck as well? Firefighters get called out of bed at 2AM, mcdonalds workers get treated poorly by their customers, janitors work hard to clean the spots they know will be freshly soiled the next day.

I agree with everything you said. I just wonder if maybe you had it dialed to a 10 rather than the 8 it deserved.

They suck, but there are a few differences:

One, the expectation for how AWESOME being a doctor is, is pretty high. It's not that I think being a doc is sooooooo much worse than McDs, firefighting, janitorial, it's that it ISN"T by NATURE so much BETTER. I'm not trying to sell it as the worst job in the world, but it's often not as bright shiny future as people seem to think going in.

I expected that when I was told I would do a lot of work, and have a lot of stress, that I would. What I didn't expect, was the "stress" that I now call the disheartening-ness of ineffectualism. The stress over being powerless to affect that which matters to you most to affect.

When I went to work as a dishwasher, I felt like I could do a good job, even though the outcomes maybe didn't matter.
When I go to work as a physician, I feel like all I can do is an inadequate job, even though the outcomes hold the highest meaning ever for me.

Certain jobs are more or less difficult to transition from one career/job to another. Being a physician is a dead end. You can quit McDs and start again more easily, trust me.

What I said above isn't universally true, just more food for thought.

I'm totally with you, though. I have colleagues that came in from crappy jobs, and they all still seem to find medicine the most challenging and stressful of anything they've done. It seems to me, that the trade-off or gain in "meaning" found, is the big offsetter for whether or not it was a good move, if the challenge and stress is seen as worth it, fullfilling, meaningful. The other side of that coin, being that if you find more meaning in the work, than you also tend to be more invested in the job that you do, and have more distress when you can't do a good job for reasons beyond your control.

Basically, if you come in with a realistic sense of the job you would LIKE to do and the job that is POSSIBLE to do, then I think you're less likely to suffer the severe bubble bursting that happens to everyone in medical training. I haven't met a single med grad that no matter how "jaded" and "eyes wide open" they could have possibly been going in, didn't come out 4 years later less idealistic. The question is to what degree and to what degree of distress.

Certainly all your other "public service" careers I think have this too - military, teaching, police, firefighting, priesthood, social work, politics, etc

Does that make any sense?

 

[BombsAway]

They suck, but there are a few differences:

One, the expectation for how AWESOME being a doctor is, is pretty high. It's not that I think being a doc is sooooooo much worse than McDs, firefighting, janitorial, it's that it ISN"T by NATURE so much BETTER. I'm not trying to sell it as the worst job in the world, but it's often not as bright shiny future as people seem to think going in.

I expected that when I was told I would do a lot of work, and have a lot of stress, that I would. What I didn't expect, was the "stress" that I now call the disheartening-ness of ineffectualism. The stress over being powerless to affect that which matters to you most to affect.

When I went to work as a dishwasher, I felt like I could do a good job, even though the outcomes maybe didn't matter.
When I go to work as a physician, I feel like all I can do is an inadequate job, even though the outcomes hold the highest meaning ever for me.

Certain jobs are more or less difficult to transition from one career/job to another. Being a physician is a dead end. You can quit McDs and start again more easily, trust me.

What I said above isn't universally true, just more food for thought.

I'm totally with you, though. I have colleagues that came in from crappy jobs, and they all still seem to find medicine the most challenging and stressful of anything they've done. It seems to me, that the trade-off or gain in "meaning" found, is the big offsetter for whether or not it was a good move, if the challenge and stress is seen as worth it, fullfilling, meaningful. The other side of that coin, being that if you find more meaning in the work, than you also tend to be more invested in the job that you do, and have more distress when you can't do a good job for reasons beyond your control.

Basically, if you come in with a realistic sense of the job you would LIKE to do and the job that is POSSIBLE to do, then I think you're less likely to suffer the severe bubble bursting that happens to everyone in medical training. I haven't met a single med grad that no matter how "jaded" and "eyes wide open" they could have possibly been going in, didn't come out 4 years later less idealistic. The question is to what degree and to what degree of distress.

Certainly all your other "public service" careers I think have this too - military, teaching, police, firefighting, priesthood, social work, politics, etc

Does that make any sense?

Another great post! I'm off to class, so I can't write anything lengthly, but i'm picking up what you're laying down. makes perfect sense.

 

[chem eng for now]

Nothing you said makes me think you should change fields to medicine.

Go do work in hospice, memory care, elderly caregiving (and I mean asswiping) for a significant # of hours per week, and tell me you feel a soul-deep connection with the incurable disgusting bodily and mental suffering of others, to where you are finding consistent fulfillment in just whatever you can do to alleviate that, even in the most seemingly inane or not even directly related ways. That for every minute you might lay hands on something and affect it, you will do at least 30 of bull**** paperwork for the privilege.

It's not enough to have a good story and overcome your own health struggles.

After literally years of ~40-80 hrs per week of self-neglect, occupational stress, and never-ending human suffering, you really can picture still deriving some satisfaction out of getting off your butt for the 10,000 step that day that decade just to bring someone ice chips, (goes for MD or RN)

then do it

If you don't do medicine for Mother Teresa-like reasons, then it will just be another well-paying job, which you already have. You may think that the nature of the work will fulfill you in a way that the bottom line of an engineering company won't, but depending on a lot of things, you might actually find this change more distressing.

Medicine is the hardest on those that don't care enough, that care too much, and care for the wrong reasons.

Do it because you are called to it. Because it is an addiction to be a caregiver in this particular manner (continued pursuit in the face of increasing harms). It is something you would do if you weren't paid. Because 9/10 times if it's a choice between any single thing that matters to you, including your loved ones, you'll still pick to help a stranger like this. Do it because you were born to do it. Do it because you can't die not having done it, because you would rather die than not do it. This is like joining the military, there is no guarantee you make it back alive or in any kind of shape. I'm serious.



All of the bolded are red flags to me.


*OP asked for thoughts and opinions. The above is food for thought.

I appreciate the honest response.

My desire to change careers is more than boredom with the current situation. I've reached this point after serious reflection on my own values and what I need to do to find meaning from my work and life. I've decided that I need to make a difference for people that are sick like I was, I'm just not sure in what capacity yet. It may be RN, working at a non profit, continuing working as an engineer but volunteering at places I care about. However, as you picked up from the wording of my OP, I'm trying to convince myself that medicine is what I want for some backwards reason (prestige, image, ego etc). A good chunk of my adolescent years/early 20's were significantly affected by my own illness and as a result I've missed out on a lot of experiences. I'm not willing to give up my 30's to school/residency/work, no matter what the occupation is. I think that is enough to rule it out right there.

An honest question- your last paragraph about the reasons to do it- is that how you feel? I'm genuinely curious. Thanks

 

[Crayola227]

I appreciate the honest response.

My desire to change careers is more than boredom with the current situation. I've reached this point after serious reflection on my own values and what I need to do to find meaning from my work and life. I've decided that I need to make a difference for people that are sick like I was, I'm just not sure in what capacity yet. It may be RN, working at a non profit, continuing working as an engineer but volunteering at places I care about. However, as you picked up from the wording of my OP, I'm trying to convince myself that medicine is what I want for some backwards reason (prestige, image, ego etc). A good chunk of my adolescent years/early 20's were significantly affected by my own illness and as a result I've missed out on a lot of experiences. I'm not willing to give up my 30's to school/residency/work, no matter what the occupation is. I think that is enough to rule it out right there.

An honest question- your last paragraph about the reasons to do it- is that how you feel? I'm genuinely curious. Thanks

Yes, it is.

Some of what I said I think applies to nursing, frankly you don't invest as much in a nursing career, and can switch up your job or even walk away, much more easily than a physician can.

I could not do nursing because I knew there would be times when I would have to carry out orders I did not agree with, and that I could be wrong in that opinion (I witnessed this first hand when I was younger the MD vs RN conflict at times). I wanted to be higher on the chain in making decisions and having more power to do advocate for what I thought was right for the patient (recognizing that there are still limits on the physician and medicine is a team sport), and also having the most education to do so.

Medicine is the worst thing that ever happened to me that I can't bring myself to regret. I gave it my entire adult life from 18 and on forward. When I think of what it cost me, I rationally can't believe that I would do it all over again. I won't list for you the ways it has destroyed my life and the things it has taken from me.

I tell people to run from it if they can.

There's plenty of doctors for whom it all goes well. The issue is that the stakes are high, and if it goes poorly.... dropping out of medicine to another career, just there's very few occupations that are more difficult to do so.

OTOH, I think under the right circumstances success could be.... as close to a perfect life as you can get, depending on how that's defined for you.

 

[gallons]

Why not PA? Spend a year getting tons of clinical exposure full time someplace then apply and after two years you're done. Not sure if the hospital stuff you mentioned will count since it's not really hands-on. Think more medical assistant CNA type experience.

You will never be top dog as a PA but then again if that's not important then that's not important.