Meeting with someone from medical board coming up - tips?

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IonClaws

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Hey guys,

After nearly 2 months I've been contacted about my medical license application from someone from the medical board (Ohio). We are going to meet in person.
I'm assuming this is about my probation and non renewal from residency, though the person who contacted me did not want to discuss it over the phone.
Any tips for how to prepare for or approach this?

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What did the lawyer that we all recommended you speak to say about it?
 
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Hey guys,

After nearly 2 months I've been contacted about my medical license application from someone from the medical board (Ohio). We are going to meet in person.
I'm assuming this is about my probation and non renewal from residency, though the person who contacted me did not want to discuss it over the phone.
Any tips for how to prepare for or approach this?
What?!? You literally did 3 years of training and successfully finished a PGY-1 year... OK. Guess I was wrong then. Sorry OP. Lawyer I guess. Out of curiosity, I know you get several emails include email confirming your medical school has been cleared, email confirming your residency has been cleared, email confirming your FCVS, etc. has been cleared. Did you already get an email aout your residency being cleared because it that's the case, then I'm not sure what's going on here.

EDIT:
The thing about the lawyer though is what questions are you going to have for them. This person’s going to ask what happened, etc. at the previous program and all that. What will the lawyer add to that? For the state of OH, you need a PGY-1 year which you have credit for and you need to have passed your Steps.

I’m not saying a lawyer is the wrong answer but any more guidance for OP and what lawyer to recommend and what exactly he needs to ask? This is completely bizarre.

EDIT 2: OP don’t step foot into that room without figuring out which lawyer to consult and what exactly to say when you go in there and if they need to accompany you or whatever. I still think this is fundamentally a non-issue, but I wouldn’t take that chance.

Last piece of advice is I wouldn’t try stirring the pot if the Ohio Medical board rejects your full license after seeking legal counsel. I get that you’re trying to find livelihood, but you’re ultimately going to pretty easily find another position and receive your training in occupational med like you told us at which point you’ll get the credentials you need. I suppose you may have to either find an entry level job and potentially take out loans for the current year. It’s a hard situation.
 
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What?!? You literally did 3 years of training and successfully finished a PGY-1 year... OK. Guess I was wrong then. Sorry OP. Lawyer I guess. Out of curiosity, I know you get several emails include email confirming your medical school has been cleared, email confirming your residency has been cleared, email confirming your FCVS, etc. has been cleared. Did you already get an email aout your residency being cleared because it that's the case, then I'm not sure what's going on here.

EDIT:
The thing about the lawyer though is what questions are you going to have for them. This person’s going to ask what happened, etc. at the previous program and all that. What will the lawyer add to that? For the state of OH, you need a PGY-1 year which you have credit for and you need to have passed your Steps.

I’m not saying a lawyer is the wrong answer but any more guidance for OP and what lawyer to recommend and what exactly he needs to ask? This is completely bizarre.

EDIT 2: OP don’t step foot into that room without figuring out which lawyer to consult and what exactly to say when you go in there and if they need to accompany you or whatever. I still think this is fundamentally a non-issue, but I wouldn’t take that chance.

Last piece of advice is I wouldn’t try stirring the pot if the Ohio Medical board rejects your full license after seeking legal counsel. I get that you’re trying to find livelihood, but you’re ultimately going to pretty easily find another position and receive your training in occupational med like you told us at which point you’ll get the credentials you need. I suppose you may have to either find an entry level job and potentially take out loans for the current year. It’s a hard situation.
If they give me anything other than a full, unrestricted license, I can't work in anything medical, my MD is useless, and I would be appealing that decision.
 
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If they give me anything other than a full, unrestricted license, I can't work in anything medical, my MD is useless, and I would be appealing that decision.

Well when are you meeting in person with the board? What happened after the non-renewal? Did you go onto another specialty?

Just as an aside, it does seem that I read more than average non-renwal posts. Are residency programs cracking down on residents these days?
 
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Well when are you meeting in person with the board? What happened after the non-renewal? Did you go onto another specialty?

Just as an aside, it does seem that I read more than average non-renewal posts. Are residency programs cracking down on residents these days?
Already met with them 3 weeks ago with my lawyer (I lawyered up with someone from a firm experienced in medical licensing). They have 90 days to gather information from my residency, family doc, and psychiatrist, then I guess the board will take their time in deciding. A spot opened up in an occ med program but I was rejected from it, so I am going to have to apply broadly this coming year.

I think this is the time of the year most residents who will get non-renewals generally get them, and threads asking for advice will concentrate on forums like these. I don't think it necessarily reflects a higher rate of terminations, but it has certainly disillusioned me to medicine.
 
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Already met with them 3 weeks ago with my lawyer (I lawyered up with someone from a firm experienced in medical licensing). They have 90 days to gather information from my residency, family doc, and psychiatrist, then I guess the board will take their time in deciding. A spot opened up in an occ med program but I was rejected from it, so I am going to have to apply broadly this coming year.

I think this is the time of the year most residents who will get non-renewals generally get them, and threads asking for advice will concentrate on forums like these. I don't think it necessarily reflects a higher rate of terminations, but it has certainly disillusioned me to medicine.

Ok. Sorry if I missed it but you finished one year of residency? I would say apply to as many places as you can, not just in occuational medicine but in general. I hope you are able to get a license. Keep us updated on your progress!
 
Ok. Sorry if I missed it but you finished one year of residency? I would say apply to as many places as you can, not just in occuational medicine but in general. I hope you are able to get a license. Keep us updated on your progress!
I have actually already finished 2, will finish 3rd at the end of June. I would definitely follow the advice of applying to IM and FM programs, the issue is my PD is not willing to endorse me for those (only for Preventive and Occ Med).
 
I have actually already finished 2, will finish 3rd at the end of June. I would definitely follow the advice of applying to IM and FM programs, the issue is my PD is not willing to endorse me for those (only for Preventive and Occ Med).

2 what? 2 years? or two residencies? you say you will finish 3rd - third year? so why would you want to do another residency if you are finishing your 3rd year? what residency are you in?
 
2 what? 2 years? or two residencies? you say you will finish 3rd - third year? so why would you want to do another residency if you are finishing your 3rd year? what residency are you in?

OP hasn’t put in his full story/vignette because he’s actually started like 5 threads on this topic and losers like me who are always on SDN have seen them all.

I’ll summarize since this is readily available if you piece through the threads. OP, contact me if you want me to delete my post.

OP has received credit for 2 years of residency. They will have worked in residency for 3 years by this June (PGY-3 to PGY-4 promotion was not approved and OPs residency contract is not being renewed). This year it was decided OP was not up to par and unable to recognize urgent situations. His/her field is an advanced one with a total of 4 years of training. The contract was not renewed for this upcoming July so OP will not be promoted to fourth year. In this cases I am not sure why OP could not have repeated a year but we are well beyond that and OP has agreed with his PD that his current field isn’t a good fit so he can’t apply to that or IM with the information contained in his departing letters. That’s left Occupational Med as the best fit with discussions with his PD and personal preferences. He tried to find a occupational position for this year to start in July 2021 but it was fruitless. He will try again officially through the match this time and l think will be accepted for next match in July 2022 (hopefully).

In the meantime OP has no way to support his family for a little over a year. He is a US medical graduate. To add to the saga, even though OP has completed intern year, received PGY-2 credit, and actually did PGY-3, OP is not being granted a license in a state that traditionally only requires an intern year because I’m pretty sure there was some wording that the program (director) wrote about him not being able to practice unsupervised - which is understood if one doesn’t complete residency - so I’m not sure why it was written as an additional precaution in his paperwork to the board from the program’s end. Anyways, this makes it so that he can not practice any form of medicine in the US (without supervision) which is impossible to obtain unless you have a residency which OP can’t obtain until July 2022.

@Splenda88 You said you had some thoughts on possibilities if OP can’t get his unrestricted license. I am certain he’ll match to a residency in July 2022 but until then wt-expletive does he do?

Let’s start a discussion on that because we can’t control what happens with the board now and OP is hopefully in better hands with the counsel of a lawyer. I’m just going to post speculations. Please correct me.

1.) Missouri. What’s going on with that? Apparently medical school graduates can do stuff there supervised? Or is it unsupervised only?

2.) Work for insurance companies? This is out. You’re basically doing the job of a middle school student asking yes/no questions and filling out paperwork out ...apparently if doctors do it insurance companies can bill more and patients don’t have to see their PCPs. The companies even pay malpractice for doctors but it’s the cheapest version and you don’t even give medical advice during the visit which you basically drive to across the state. It can be profitable if all 8 patients are home for the day as you drive across the state to do these insurance assessment. The argument is this is for underserved areas.

3.) Prisons/Indian Reserves/VA - I think these are out. Vohra wound care is out. While they don’t say it explicitly on their website they’re essentially describing someone who has the unrestricted license.

4.) Test company consultant. OP, were your USMLE scores good? You may find something profitable working for Kaplan/etc. writing test bank questions or tutoring. This is until July 2022.

5.) OP, can you try to a different state to find a license?
 
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OP hasn’t put in his full story/vignette because he’s actually started like 5 threads on this topic and losers like me who are always on SDN have seen them all.

I’ll summarize since this is readily available if you piece through the threads. OP, contact me if you want me to delete my post.

OP has received credit for 2 years of residency. They have worked in residency for 3 years. This year it was decided OP was not up to par and unable to recognize urgent situations. His/her is an advanced one with a total of 4 years. The contract was not renewed for this upcoming July so OP will not be promoted to fourth year. In these cases I am not sure why OP could not have repeated a year but we are well beyond that and OP has agreed with his PD that his current field isn’t a good fit so he can’t apply to that and IM with the information in his letters. That’s left Occupational Med as the best fit with discussions with his PD and personal preferences. He tried to find a occupational position for this year but they’ve all tried up. He will try again and likely be accepted for next match in July 2022.

In the meantime OP has no way to support his family for a little over a year. He is a US medical graduate. To add to the saga, even though OP has completed intern year, received PGY-2 credit, and actually did PGY-3, OP is not being granted a license in a state that traditionally only requires an intern year because I’m pretty sure there was some wording that the program wrote about him not being able to practice unsupervised which is understood if one doesn’t complete residency so I’m not sure why it was written as an additional precaution in his paperwork to the board from the program’s end. Anyways, this makes it so that he can not practice any form of medicine in the US (without supervision) which is impossible to obtain unless you have a residency which OP can’t obtain until July 2022.

It’s freaking ridiculous. @Splenda88 you had some thoughts on possibilities of OP can’t get his unrestricted license. I am certain he’ll have a residency in July 2022 but until then wt-expletive does he do?

Let’s start a discussion on that. I think it’s be very helpful to OP and the masses kin this situation. I’m just going to post speculations. Please correct me.

1.) Missouri. What’s going on with that. Apparently medical school graduates can do stuff there supervised? Or is it unsupervised?

2.) Work for insurance companies? This is out. You’re basically doing the job of a middle school student filling out paperwork but apparently if doctors do it insurance companies can bill more and patients don’t have to see their PCPs. The argument is this is for underserved areas.

3.) Prisons/Indian Reserves/VA - I think these are out. Vohra wound care is out. While they don’t say it explicitly on their website they’re essentially describing someone who has the unrestricted license.

4.) Test company consultant. OP, were your USMLE scores good? You may find something profitable working for Kaplan/etc. writing test bank questions or tutoring. This is until July 2022.

5.) OP, can you try to a different state to find a license?

Thank you that was helpful. I would say try a different state license? It seems rather rough that the program would put that in his paperwork. Unless OP did something really far out it seems inappropriate but anyways. Research fellowship for a year? What about that one "critical care" fellowship being touted on here somewhere? I think even for med evals a license is required but it's non clinical work. So OP should be able to do something like that no?
 
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Thank you that was helpful. I would say try a different state license? It seems rather rough that the program would put that in his paperwork. Unless OP did something really far out it seems inappropriate but anyways. Research fellowship for a year? What about that one "critical care" fellowship being touted on here somewhere? I think even for med evals a license is required but it's non clinical work. So OP should be able to do something like that no?
I think the different state is a good idea but I would say from anecdotal evidence the state OP is in is a particularly simple one.

The med evals by insurance companies require the unrestricted license even though you’re spot on that they’re doing nothing. I believe they can bill more for it.

Tell us more about the critical care “fellowship”? I’m assuming by the “” you’re denoting it’s not a traditional fellowship in that it does not require a residency? If something like this exists it would be very ideal.

On that note, OP can you go around and see if there’s any open prelim spots in IM/Surgery remaining from the match? Yes, you probably won’t get into the categorical program but it’s a year that you can do clinical work which I think will be seen the most favorably relative to the non-clinical options to program directors.

I think a research year is a good idea too if it can pay enough to support a family. I don’t think research is really going to help him match Occ Med.
 
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I think the different state is a good idea but I would say from anecdotal evidence the state OP is in is a particularly simple one.

The med evals by insurance companies require the unrestricted license even though you’re spot on that they’re doing nothing. I believe they can bill more for it.

Tell us more about the critical care “fellowship”? I’m assuming by the “” you’re denoting it’s not a traditional fellowship in that it does not require a residency? If something like this exists it would be very ideal.

On that note, OP can you go around and see if there’s any open prelim spots in IM/Surgery remaining from the match? Yes, you probably won’t get into the categorical program but it’s a year that you can do clinical work which I think will be seen the most favorably relative to the non-clinical options to program directors.

I think a research year is a good idea too if it can pay enough to support a family. I don’t think research is really going to help him match Occ Med.

in the area up above where the open spots/residency/fellowships are mentioned there is someone saying they have a non accredited fellowship. i kinda mocked it but given the situation who knows. do we know the op will match in occ med? i would say op should apply to as many places as they can. occ med tends to be less competitive but not that many spots, i guess environmental med/might be an options, as well as maybe psych?
 
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in the area up above where the open spots/residency/fellowships are mentioned there is someone saying they have a non accredited fellowship. i kinda mocked it but given the situation who knows. do we know the op will match in occ med? i would say op should apply to as many places as they can. occ med tends to be less competitive but not that many spots, i guess environmental med/might be an options, as well as maybe psych?
That’s true. While psych is competitive it is not a medical emergency and typically (and no offense) psych prelims are the ones with the least expectations. OP, that’s another option I guess...
 
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OP hasn’t put in his full story/vignette because he’s actually started like 5 threads on this topic and losers like me who are always on SDN have seen them all.

I’ll summarize since this is readily available if you piece through the threads. OP, contact me if you want me to delete my post.

OP has received credit for 2 years of residency. They will have worked in residency for 3 years by this June (PGY-3 to PGY-4 promotion was not approved and OPs residency contract is not being renewed). This year it was decided OP was not up to par and unable to recognize urgent situations. His/her field is an advanced one with a total of 4 years of training. The contract was not renewed for this upcoming July so OP will not be promoted to fourth year. In this cases I am not sure why OP could not have repeated a year but we are well beyond that and OP has agreed with his PD that his current field isn’t a good fit so he can’t apply to that or IM with the information contained in his departing letters. That’s left Occupational Med as the best fit with discussions with his PD and personal preferences. He tried to find a occupational position for this year to start in July 2021 but it was fruitless. He will try again officially through the match this time and l think will be accepted for next match in July 2022 (hopefully).

In the meantime OP has no way to support his family for a little over a year. He is a US medical graduate. To add to the saga, even though OP has completed intern year, received PGY-2 credit, and actually did PGY-3, OP is not being granted a license in a state that traditionally only requires an intern year because I’m pretty sure there was some wording that the program (director) wrote about him not being able to practice unsupervised - which is understood if one doesn’t complete residency - so I’m not sure why it was written as an additional precaution in his paperwork to the board from the program’s end. Anyways, this makes it so that he can not practice any form of medicine in the US (without supervision) which is impossible to obtain unless you have a residency which OP can’t obtain until July 2022.

@Splenda88 You said you had some thoughts on possibilities if OP can’t get his unrestricted license. I am certain he’ll match to a residency in July 2022 but until then wt-expletive does he do?

Let’s start a discussion on that because we can’t control what happens with the board now and OP is hopefully in better hands with the counsel of a lawyer. I’m just going to post speculations. Please correct me.

1.) Missouri. What’s going on with that? Apparently medical school graduates can do stuff there supervised? Or is it unsupervised only?

2.) Work for insurance companies? This is out. You’re basically doing the job of a middle school student asking yes/no questions and filling out paperwork out ...apparently if doctors do it insurance companies can bill more and patients don’t have to see their PCPs. The companies even pay malpractice for doctors but it’s the cheapest version and you don’t even give medical advice during the visit which you basically drive to across the state. It can be profitable if all 8 patients are home for the day as you drive across the state to do these insurance assessment. The argument is this is for underserved areas.

3.) Prisons/Indian Reserves/VA - I think these are out. Vohra wound care is out. While they don’t say it explicitly on their website they’re essentially describing someone who has the unrestricted license.

4.) Test company consultant. OP, were your USMLE scores good? You may find something profitable working for Kaplan/etc. writing test bank questions or tutoring. This is until July 2022.

5.) OP, can you try to a different state to find a license?
I should point out I haven't actually been denied a license, I just have to give the board more time to do their investigation.
 
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I should point out I haven't actually been denied a license, I just have to give the board more time to make their decision.

Right, aware of that, just brainstorming just in case. Hopefully it's a non issue.
 
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If you're looking at VHA jobs the USAjobs postings generally include the two following paragraphs:
  • Current, full and unrestricted license to practice medicine or surgery in a State, Territory, or Commonwealth of the United States, or in the District of Columbia.
  • Completion of residency training, or its equivalent, approved by the Secretary of Veterans Affairs in an accredited core specialty training program leading to eligibility for board certification.
 
That’s true. While psych is competitive it is not a medical emergency and typically (and no offense) psych prelims are the ones with the least expectations. OP, that’s another option I guess...
There's no such thing as a psych prelim, is there?
 
If you get the impression the medical board is going to deny the license, you may want to ask for the option of withdrawing your application before they deny it. You don't want to have to put a denial on future license applications in other states.

And for any interns or med students reading this: as soon as you complete your state's minimum requirements, highly recommend applying for your independent medical license in case you are ever in a similar situation down the road. Having that medical license in hand might save you a lot of headache.
 
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in the area up above where the open spots/residency/fellowships are mentioned there is someone saying they have a non accredited fellowship. i kinda mocked it but given the situation who knows. do we know the op will match in occ med? i would say op should apply to as many places as they can. occ med tends to be less competitive but not that many spots, i guess environmental med/might be an options, as well as maybe psych?
That’s what I’d like to know too. @Redpancreas is so confident that OP will match next cycle but I don’t know where that confidence is coming from.
 
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OP hasn’t put in his full story/vignette because he’s actually started like 5 threads on this topic and losers like me who are always on SDN have seen them all.

I’ll summarize since this is readily available if you piece through the threads. OP, contact me if you want me to delete my post.

OP has received credit for 2 years of residency. They will have worked in residency for 3 years by this June (PGY-3 to PGY-4 promotion was not approved and OPs residency contract is not being renewed). This year it was decided OP was not up to par and unable to recognize urgent situations. His/her field is an advanced one with a total of 4 years of training. The contract was not renewed for this upcoming July so OP will not be promoted to fourth year. In this cases I am not sure why OP could not have repeated a year but we are well beyond that and OP has agreed with his PD that his current field isn’t a good fit so he can’t apply to that or IM with the information contained in his departing letters. That’s left Occupational Med as the best fit with discussions with his PD and personal preferences. He tried to find a occupational position for this year to start in July 2021 but it was fruitless. He will try again officially through the match this time and l think will be accepted for next match in July 2022 (hopefully).

In the meantime OP has no way to support his family for a little over a year. He is a US medical graduate. To add to the saga, even though OP has completed intern year, received PGY-2 credit, and actually did PGY-3, OP is not being granted a license in a state that traditionally only requires an intern year because I’m pretty sure there was some wording that the program (director) wrote about him not being able to practice unsupervised - which is understood if one doesn’t complete residency - so I’m not sure why it was written as an additional precaution in his paperwork to the board from the program’s end. Anyways, this makes it so that he can not practice any form of medicine in the US (without supervision) which is impossible to obtain unless you have a residency which OP can’t obtain until July 2022.

@Splenda88 You said you had some thoughts on possibilities if OP can’t get his unrestricted license. I am certain he’ll match to a residency in July 2022 but until then wt-expletive does he do?

Let’s start a discussion on that because we can’t control what happens with the board now and OP is hopefully in better hands with the counsel of a lawyer. I’m just going to post speculations. Please correct me.

1.) Missouri. What’s going on with that? Apparently medical school graduates can do stuff there supervised? Or is it unsupervised only?

2.) Work for insurance companies? This is out. You’re basically doing the job of a middle school student asking yes/no questions and filling out paperwork out ...apparently if doctors do it insurance companies can bill more and patients don’t have to see their PCPs. The companies even pay malpractice for doctors but it’s the cheapest version and you don’t even give medical advice during the visit which you basically drive to across the state. It can be profitable if all 8 patients are home for the day as you drive across the state to do these insurance assessment. The argument is this is for underserved areas.

3.) Prisons/Indian Reserves/VA - I think these are out. Vohra wound care is out. While they don’t say it explicitly on their website they’re essentially describing someone who has the unrestricted license.

4.) Test company consultant. OP, were your USMLE scores good? You may find something profitable working for Kaplan/etc. writing test bank questions or tutoring. This is until July 2022.

5.) OP, can you try to a different state to find a license?

The second option is decent for making money, but could potentially require travel and being away from the family for extended periods of time. I did that for a little while when I was looking for a job out of training. It was pretty mind-numbing, but did allow me the opportunity to have days off when needed to be able to do interviews.
 
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The second option is decent for making money, but could potentially require travel and being away from the family for extended periods of time. I did that for a little while when I was looking for a job out of training. It was pretty mind-numbing, but did allow me the opportunity to have days off when needed to be able to do interviews.

What type of job is this? I have a little free time until I start my next gig and wouldn't mind doing something to fill the gap until then.
 
That’s what I’d like to know too. @Redpancreas is so confident that OP will match next cycle but I don’t know where that confidence is coming from.

This is my reasoning.

1.) OP has received credit for 2 years of ACGME training and has 1 year of additional experience.
2.) He is aiming for a less competitive specialty overall. Has a gap in medical education, but can explain it.
3.) Is a US MD without until all this
4.) He did not actually apply ERAS this year but imagine reached out to a few places. Next year I anticipate he'll apply to formally to occupational medicine, preventative medicine, potentially psych, etc. programs.
5.) OP has a compelling motive for doing Occupational Medicine. I think his neurology experience and discomfort in the inpatient setting and affinity for clinic will be well received by program directors of occupational medicine.

--

Another thing OP is your training license will still be active in the state of your first residency for another year. If you do not get a license (or even while you get that worked out) have you considered filling one of the many presumably open preliminary spots? It will provide a year's work & pay. The downside if you may ultimately be restricted in applying to and interviewing to as many places as you'd like in ERAS 2021-22 and I don't know if that's worth the risk.
 
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Thanks. I hope OP keeps this thread updated It is very interesting and I hope he lands on his feet. But I’m not confident that he will easily get another residency. I hope I’m wrong. He has lots of baggage that any PD /program is going to have to sift through.
 
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This is my reasoning.

1.) OP has received credit for 2 years of ACGME training and has 1 year of additional experience.
2.) He is aiming for a less competitive specialty overall. Has a gap in medical education, but can explain it.
3.) Is a US MD without until all this
4.) He did not actually apply ERAS this year but imagine reached out to a few places. Next year I anticipate he'll apply to formally to occupational medicine, preventative medicine, potentially psych, etc. programs.
5.) OP has a compelling motive for doing Occupational Medicine. I think his neurology experience and discomfort in the inpatient setting and affinity for clinic will be well received by program directors of occupational medicine.

--

Another thing OP is your training license will still be active in the state of your first residency for another year. If you do not get a license (or even while you get that worked out) have you considered filling one of the many presumably open preliminary spots? It will provide a year's work & pay. The downside if you may ultimately be restricted in applying to and interviewing to as many places as you'd like in ERAS 2021-22 and I don't know if that's worth the risk.

I think you should fill out OP's application! lol. :)
 
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Maybe wound care? That seems like another option too.
Thanks. I hope OP keeps this thread updated It is very interesting and I hope he lands on his feet. But I’m not confident that he will easily get another residency. I hope I’m wrong. He has lots of baggage that any PD /program is going to have to sift through.
 
Maybe wound care? That seems like another option too.
I don't think he can do it without the unrestricted license. Vohra Wound Care is the main place looking for physicians. Basically they're looking for 2 years of residency experience (which OP has) but then they say "Depending on when a physician leaves residency, their options for next steps may be limited. To apply for a medical license, doctors must have completed at least an internship, and must have passed all three United States Medical Licensing Examination (USMLE) or COMLEX board exams. The third USMLE exam, referred to as Step 3, is typically taken at the end of intern year and calls upon knowledge gained during clinical training."

This implies to me that they're looking for that medical license even though they haven't explicitly said that. OP can call and clarify. You can easily sign up for a 15 minute interview without much advanced notice with them where you can discuss this.

Source:
 
There is someone on here that i think was in a similar situation and they were able to go on to do wound care successfully. i dont recall the details. i think if op can get a license, then a lot of these issues go away. hoping for the best!
I don't think he can do it without the unrestricted license. Vohra Wound Care is the main place looking for physicians. Basically they're looking for 2 years of residency experience (which OP has) but then they say "Depending on when a physician leaves residency, their options for next steps may be limited. To apply for a medical license, doctors must have completed at least an internship, and must have passed all three United States Medical Licensing Examination (USMLE) or COMLEX board exams. The third USMLE exam, referred to as Step 3, is typically taken at the end of intern year and calls upon knowledge gained during clinical training."

This implies to me that they're looking for that medical license even though they haven't explicitly said that. OP can call and clarify. You can easily sign up for a 15 minute interview without much advanced notice with them where you can discuss this.

Source:
 
This is my reasoning.

1.) OP has received credit for 2 years of ACGME training and has 1 year of additional experience.
2.) He is aiming for a less competitive specialty overall. Has a gap in medical education, but can explain it.
3.) Is a US MD without until all this
4.) He did not actually apply ERAS this year but imagine reached out to a few places. Next year I anticipate he'll apply to formally to occupational medicine, preventative medicine, potentially psych, etc. programs.
5.) OP has a compelling motive for doing Occupational Medicine. I think his neurology experience and discomfort in the inpatient setting and affinity for clinic will be well received by program directors of occupational medicine.

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Another thing OP is your training license will still be active in the state of your first residency for another year. If you do not get a license (or even while you get that worked out) have you considered filling one of the many presumably open preliminary spots? It will provide a year's work & pay. The downside if you may ultimately be restricted in applying to and interviewing to as many places as you'd like in ERAS 2021-22 and I don't know if that's worth the risk.

His training license likely ends when his employment ends in June.
 
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OP hasn’t put in his full story/vignette because he’s actually started like 5 threads on this topic and losers like me who are always on SDN have seen them all.

I’ll summarize since this is readily available if you piece through the threads. OP, contact me if you want me to delete my post.

OP has received credit for 2 years of residency. They will have worked in residency for 3 years by this June (PGY-3 to PGY-4 promotion was not approved and OPs residency contract is not being renewed). This year it was decided OP was not up to par and unable to recognize urgent situations. His/her field is an advanced one with a total of 4 years of training. The contract was not renewed for this upcoming July so OP will not be promoted to fourth year. In this cases I am not sure why OP could not have repeated a year but we are well beyond that and OP has agreed with his PD that his current field isn’t a good fit so he can’t apply to that or IM with the information contained in his departing letters. That’s left Occupational Med as the best fit with discussions with his PD and personal preferences. He tried to find a occupational position for this year to start in July 2021 but it was fruitless. He will try again officially through the match this time and l think will be accepted for next match in July 2022 (hopefully).

In the meantime OP has no way to support his family for a little over a year. He is a US medical graduate. To add to the saga, even though OP has completed intern year, received PGY-2 credit, and actually did PGY-3, OP is not being granted a license in a state that traditionally only requires an intern year because I’m pretty sure there was some wording that the program (director) wrote about him not being able to practice unsupervised - which is understood if one doesn’t complete residency - so I’m not sure why it was written as an additional precaution in his paperwork to the board from the program’s end. Anyways, this makes it so that he can not practice any form of medicine in the US (without supervision) which is impossible to obtain unless you have a residency which OP can’t obtain until July 2022.

@Splenda88 You said you had some thoughts on possibilities if OP can’t get his unrestricted license. I am certain he’ll match to a residency in July 2022 but until then wt-expletive does he do?

Let’s start a discussion on that because we can’t control what happens with the board now and OP is hopefully in better hands with the counsel of a lawyer. I’m just going to post speculations. Please correct me.

1.) Missouri. What’s going on with that? Apparently medical school graduates can do stuff there supervised? Or is it unsupervised only?

2.) Work for insurance companies? This is out. You’re basically doing the job of a middle school student asking yes/no questions and filling out paperwork out ...apparently if doctors do it insurance companies can bill more and patients don’t have to see their PCPs. The companies even pay malpractice for doctors but it’s the cheapest version and you don’t even give medical advice during the visit which you basically drive to across the state. It can be profitable if all 8 patients are home for the day as you drive across the state to do these insurance assessment. The argument is this is for underserved areas.

3.) Prisons/Indian Reserves/VA - I think these are out. Vohra wound care is out. While they don’t say it explicitly on their website they’re essentially describing someone who has the unrestricted license.

4.) Test company consultant. OP, were your USMLE scores good? You may find something profitable working for Kaplan/etc. writing test bank questions or tutoring. This is until July 2022.

5.) OP, can you try to a different state to find a license?
Possibility is for OP to get an AP license in Missouri but I was told it's hard to get a job with such license. OP can try other states like WI, MN, MI, GA and even PR. You can work for the fed (eg., IHS etc) with a PR license as one of my friend is doing that right now in the mainland. He is doing EXTREMELY well ~200k/yr + student loan help and crazy benefits.
 
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If you get the impression the medical board is going to deny the license, you may want to ask for the option of withdrawing your application before they deny it. You don't want to have to put a denial on future license applications in other states.

And for any interns or med students reading this: as soon as you complete your state's minimum requirements, highly recommend applying for your independent medical license in case you are ever in a similar situation down the road. Having that medical license in hand might save you a lot of headache.
YESSSSSSSSSSSSSSS. I did that and people thought I was crazy. You never know what curveball life can bring you. I think your advice should be all over SDN.

It cost me ~$700 to be licensed after PGY1 but I had a peace of mind after I did it.
 
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His training license likely ends when his employment ends in June.
I know of someone in the state OP is looking into who resigned from their residency and their training license was active until their graduation date. I looked it up.
 
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YESSSSSSSSSSSSSSS. I did that and people thought I was crazy. You never know what curveball life can bring you. I think your advice should be all over SDN.

It cost me ~$700 to be licensed after PGY1 but I had a peace of mind after I did it.

I guess that's an interesting thought. althought not everyone takes step 3 intern year.
 
YESSSSSSSSSSSSSSS. I did that and people thought I was crazy. You never know what curveball life can bring you. I think your advice should be all over SDN.

It cost me ~$700 to be licensed after PGY1 but I had a peace of mind after I did it.

Most are going to have to do it for moonlighting/IM fellowship in PGY-2/3 anyways. Might as well do it as soon as you are eligible and in good standing. I wish I had as I cited have found gainful employment faster in interim of my transition. OP wouldn’t be in this position if he had done it PGY-2. Let this be an example for others.
 
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I guess that's an interesting thought. althought not everyone takes step 3 intern year.
They should. I took it after intern year but applied for licensure the day my result came out.
 
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Most are going to have to do it for moonlighting/IM fellowship in PGY-2/3 anyways. Might as well do it as soon as you are eligible and in good standing. Let this be an example for others.
I did it because I saw how much my friend's life who work for IHS has changed once he was able to get a license...

He graduated from a carib school and was unsuccessful in getting a FM residency for 3 yrs. The guy was working as a patient care assistant. He did an unaccredited ACGME internship in PR (they call them internado) and a lot Spanish IMG docs in FL do that and got ACN (area of critical need) license, so they can work in designated facilities by the state (rural areas, Health department, clinics for low income individuals, prisons etc...).

Now he has been working for IHS for ~6 yrs with a PR license in the mainland. He loves his job.

The system has loopholes but you have to do a little bit of homework to know these loopholes.

Unfortunately, every Hispanics know that PR/FL loophole so these INTERNADO are hard to get now.


Links for ACN license and designated facilities in FL


 
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I did it because I saw how much my friend's life who work for IHS has changed once he was able to get a license...

He graduated from a carib school and was unsuccessful in getting a FM residency for 3 yrs. The guy was working as a patient care assistant. He did an unaccredited ACGME internship in PR (they call them internado) and a lot Spanish IMG docs in FL do that and got ACN (area of critical need) license, so they can work in designated facilities by the state (rural areas, Health department, clinics for low income individuals, prisons etc...).

Now he has been working for IHS for ~6 yrs with a PR license in the mainland. He loves his job.

The system has loopholes but you have to do a little bit of homework to know these loopholes.

Unfortunately, every Hispanics know that PR/FL loophole so these INTERNADO are hard to get now.


Links for ACN license and designated facilities in FL


yeah which unrelated to this topic but this loophole makes me personally sad because it suppresses Florida prison physician wages. I'm from Florida and I did correctional health care as an RN and potentially wanted to return as a physician. But being Board certified residency trained in IM with 400K in student loan debt and getting underpaid isn't really going to work for me.
 
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yeah which unrelated to this topic but this loophole makes me personally sad because it suppresses Florida prison physician wages. I'm from Florida and I did correctional health care as an RN and potentially wanted to return as a physician. But being Board certified residency trained in IM with 400K in student loan debt and getting underpaid isn't really going to work for me.

Can I ask - and this is not a judgement just out of curiosity - how do you have 400k in student loan debt?
 
yeah which unrelated to this topic but this loophole makes me personally sad because it suppresses Florida prison physician wages. I'm from Florida and I did correctional health care as an RN and potentially wanted to return as a physician. But being Board certified residency trained in IM with 400K in student loan debt and getting underpaid isn't really going to work for me.
I worked a few months at a correctional facility as well as a RN. The docs there had a cool job. It was a 9-5pm M-F job and NP/PA take after hours call. Don't know how much these docs were making, I doubt they were making >250k.

Florida overall is a touch market for IM, especially south FL, Orlando metro and Tampa metro. It took me a good 4 months to get hospitalist job offers in south FL and the offers were ridiculous, so I gave up and said will be back to FL when I am financially independent.
 
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Can I ask - and this is not a judgement just out of curiosity - how do you have 400k in student loan debt?
Most people graduating med school these days have >300k student loan debt.

I went to what one would consider a school with ok tuition and my loan is 330k. But it would have been in the 270-280k if I did not borrow extra $$$.
 
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I worked a few months at a correctional facility as well as a RN. The docs there had a cool job. It was a 9-5pm M-F job and NP/PA take after hours call. Don't know how much these docs were making, I doubt they were making >250k.

Florida overall is a touch market for IM, especially south FL, Orlando metro and Tampa metro. It took me a good 4 months to get hospitalist job offers in south FL and the offers were ridiculous, so I gave up and said will be back to FL after I am financially independent.
I hate south FL and there's several places I would live here. But I'm leaving the state for residency anyway, and Im open to settling down where I'm going because I kinda love the area.
 
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You felt comfortable driving to people's houses and doing exams? it pays like $100/eval? is it even worth the drive?

When I did it, it was $100/patient, up to 9 in a day. Plus you got a rental car, hotel room, and $55 per diem for food a day. You were considered an independent contractor, so you did have to do estimated taxes quarterly. You could contribute to a solo 401k, though, and save a bunch for retirement.
 
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