Meharry and Howard Dental Schools

[mkhan27]

Do these 2 schools accept primarily minority groups or do they accept students from other races??

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[lr2014]

They do accept other races (white, etc) but if you read the ADEA Guide they try to focus on minority groups.

 

[Dgeorg6]

If you are white don't waste your money.

If you're not.. You should apply

 

[periopocket]

Don't waste your money if your not URM. They won't even bother looking at your app!

 

[mkhan27]

I'm actually Asian Indian, so most likely it won't help right??

 

[Dgeorg6]

Are you more Indian or more Asian?

 

[periopocket]

They have no interest in Asian Indians or ORMs= over represented minority's

 

[periopocket]

Indians, pakastanis, afghanis, srilankans and more are considered south Asians

 

[nikoness]

They do accept other races (white, etc) but if you read the ADEA Guide they try to focus on minority groups.

And that sort of racism is casually in their official guide?

I'm middle eastern, is there any school that blatantly says they prefer arabs over everyone else? or am i not given special priviledges because im not part of the right minority group

lol, and i can just imagine the backlash if a school stated that they prefer white students.

 

[periopocket]

Middle Eastern is considered white, unless you are Egyptian, Lybian or from one of those African Arabic countries! Then you get to pretend your African American and you get all there privileges ; )

 

[lr2014]

And that sort of racism is casually in their official guide?

I'm middle eastern, is there any school that blatantly says they prefer arabs over everyone else? or am i not given special priviledges because im not part of the right minority group

lol, and i can just imagine the backlash if a school stated that they prefer white students.

From the Guide:

"The mission of the Howard University College of Dentistry is to provide a dental education of exceptional quality to qualified individuals, with particular emphasis on recruiting promising African Americans and other historically underrepresented students."

 

[Screwtape]

I know someone who is white attending meharry starting this year. It was their only acceptance. They had low stats and were wait listed, but eventually got in to meharry... but talking to a few grads and the info on here, I wouldn't apply to meharry whoever you are. Unless low stats and little chance of going elsewhere.

 

[hahahigh]

Howard typically interviews and accepts a fair number of Asians per year (15-20% of their class, if memory serves). This is less so the case with Meharry.

 

[1stlady90]

Meharry and Howard are historically black universities so yes they have a preference to mainly African American students and other minorities that are considered underrepresented. If you are Caucasian you have a <1% chance of getting accepted here, but it is not uncommon to have at least 1-2 other minorities per class and 1 possible Caucasian. It is not because of discrimination trust me, but that is a different story. Apply to the other many dental schools and you'll have a better chance.

 

[gn4]

i've heard Meharry is a terrible school. Don't apply there. However, I know a white guy who is about to be a second year there, I believe.

I have Asian friends who got accepted to Howard last year.

 

[habiba]

is meharry consider (OOSF) out of state friendly or they prefer people from tennessee??

 

[Samsara21]

Meharry is impartial to OOS applicants. On my interview day only one person was from Tennessee.

I always find the vitriol towards these HBCU's graduate programs unsettling and perplexing. If you have no interest or understanding or consideration of people who are different from you both ethnically or socioeconomically then DO NOT BOTHER APPLYING. These programs have a specific mission and if your application in no way conveys interest in that mission then YES, don't waste your money. If your application reflects a desire or an interest in working with marginalized groups then you have a good shot. But don't apply with a 3.9/25AA, boasting about your leadership as captain of your row team/pre-dent club and QQ when you do not get an interview because really, who are you kidding, you do not want to be there.

Out of 13 interviewees on my interview day 1 was an ORM. 1 of Meharry's 4 or 5 dental student tour guides was a southern caucasian guy. Walking around campus I saw 2 additional ORM students. And if I am not mistaken, Howard has significant population (i.e. ~50%) that more students that are not african american.

So to reiterate, if you are interested in their mission, apply and be sure to articulate what aligns you with their mission. If not, do not waste your money.

 

[rnco]

I wasn't aware that discrimination can be rephrased as "their mission."

Discrimination is discrimination.

 

[Reefboss]

These schools accept Asians and whites. I know two students who are asian who attend and graduated from Howard

 

[gn4]

i've heard Meharry is a terrible school. Don't apply there. However, I know a white guy who is about to be a second year there, I believe.

I have Asian friends who got accepted to Howard last year.

I want to edit this. I didn't know much about the school when I made this statement. It's actually a pretty good school. I was just going based off what my dentist told me. It's actually a good school.

 

[peacelove&TX]

I wasn't aware that discrimination can be rephrased as "their mission."

Discrimination is discrimination.

It's not. chill out and read a dictionary. If you dont like it apply else where. As a Pre-dental student if you actually are this ignorant statement is kind of disgusting.

Do better.

 

[thirstyscholar]

I want to edit this. I didn't know much about the school when I made this statement. It's actually a pretty good school. I was just going based off what my dentist told me. It's actually a good school.

It's not.

 

[yko0584]

It's not.

Actually I have been there and it is actually a good school. It is not fair to make judgements if you know nothing about the school. Listening to rumors is not legitimate proof to talk down on any school.

 

[fatham878]

Actually I have been there and it is actually a good school. It is not fair to make judgements if you know nothing about the school. Listening to rumors is not legitimate proof to talk down on any school.

I concur. I will be attending in the Fall so obviously I am a little biased but I will be honest when I say I went to my interview a little wary due to what I had read on these forums about the school. I wasn't quite sure what to expect, but I can honestly say that I left feeling that I would get a quality education there. They pride themselves on their students' clinical skills and I am not surprised because both the facilities were quite nice, especially the new sim lab. I asked current students about problems I had read, such as not being able to get patients and they said that the school did a fine job getting them whatever they needed. I am not worried about the education that I will be receiving. The only thing that irks me are the people like Thirstyscholar and gn4's dentist (see his previous post) who continue to talk bad about the schools when they probably have no first-hand experience, or have "heard stories from their friend's friend" about Meharry dentists. Maybe things were bad in the past, but I was definitely impressed on my visit.

And just for the record, I am an Asian male, 3.42 GPA, 20AA DAT so they do admit more than just URM. I think in order to be considered at all you have to have something on your application that makes them think you would be willing to work with the under served, which makes a lot of sense. If you were trying to train dentists that will go into the inner city and work with the population that they want to reach, a class full of frat daddies and others from higher up on the socioeconomic scale wouldn't help you achieve your goals. Gross generalization because of course some of them might want to go that route, but I'd be willing to bet that is not the usual case.

If you do feel the school is such a bad place, extrapolate and explain to everybody why it is such an awful place to learn dentistry as opposed to just shooting down everyone who even slightly praises the school with a vague, unhelpful comment.

 

[gn4]

I agree. Those feelings came from my dentist's experience with a Meharry graduate. I think that dentist was just bad. It doesn't mean all of them are bad. I shadowed an oral surgeon who went to Meharry and she was a good dentist. She told me to visit the school and after I did, I was actually impressed. It's a good school. The students seem to be happy there as well. As @fatham878 said, it's not just a school for URM. I saw many Caucasians and Asians whilst there.

 

[Phuhseeshus]

Does anyone else get annoyed that people get special consideration because of their race/ethnicity? Why should an African American have any advantage over an Indian, Korean, or white American? Why should any race have an advantage over another? My white friends don't get an advantage because their melanin concentration is lower.

Why not just accept students into an institution based on their intellect, social ability, interest, involvement, and achievement? Shouldn't those be more important than race? My view isn't racist - it's fair. Americans in particular venerate race, unless you're white. Then nobody cares. In fact, then it's OK to be racist against whites with no repercussions - who cares if you call them a cracker, or some other derogatory term? But heaven help you if you even think about a black joke. RACIST! Why is there differential treatment in how we view select races? Am I advocating racism? Absolutely not. But the very idea of offering some advantages, based on skin color seems a bit... I don't know... racist.

 

[gn4]

Oh this should be a fun thread now

 

[Illfavor]

Does anyone else get annoyed that people get special consideration because of their race/ethnicity? Why should an African American have any advantage over an Indian, Korean, or white American? Why should any race have an advantage over another? My white friends don't get an advantage because their melanin concentration is lower.

Why not just accept students into an institution based on their intellect, social ability, interest, involvement, and achievement? Shouldn't those be more important than race? My view isn't racist - it's fair. Americans in particular venerate race, unless you're white. Then nobody cares. In fact, then it's OK to be racist against whites with no repercussions - who cares if you call them a cracker, or some other derogatory term? But heaven help you if you even think about a black joke. RACIST! Why is there differential treatment in how we view select races? Am I advocating racism? Absolutely not. But the very idea of offering some advantages, based on skin color seems a bit... I don't know... racist.

It's more about the historical prejudices (social, economic and otherwise) associated with their melanin concentration.

 

[yko0584]

Does anyone else get annoyed that people get special consideration because of their race/ethnicity? Why should an African American have any advantage over an Indian, Korean, or white American? Why should any race have an advantage over another? My white friends don't get an advantage because their melanin concentration is lower.

Why not just accept students into an institution based on their intellect, social ability, interest, involvement, and achievement? Shouldn't those be more important than race? My view isn't racist - it's fair. Americans in particular venerate race, unless you're white. Then nobody cares. In fact, then it's OK to be racist against whites with no repercussions - who cares if you call them a cracker, or some other derogatory term? But heaven help you if you even think about a black joke. RACIST! Why is there differential treatment in how we view select races? Am I advocating racism? Absolutely not. But the very idea of offering some advantages, based on skin color seems a bit... I don't know... racist.

Every school has a mission. This is what a faculty member in the admissions committee told me, Meharry is not interested in students who have 3.6-4.0. They are looking for those average students who have volunteered in an underserved community or has a disadvantaged status. The reason for not choosing smart kids is that they learn everything themselves, the teacher would not be as sufficient. They want to take those 3.0-3.5 students and polish them to be great dentists. The reason for choosing minorities comes from the history of the school where Samuel Meharry, a white man built the school for African Americans to learn, when it was unfavored back then in the 1880's. It has an interesting history and you should look into it.

 

[fatham878]

Does anyone else get annoyed that people get special consideration because of their race/ethnicity? Why should an African American have any advantage over an Indian, Korean, or white American? Why should any race have an advantage over another? My white friends don't get an advantage because their melanin concentration is lower.

A lot of you are seeing nothing except race in their admissions processes. Please refer to my earlier post; I will repost my thoughts for your convenience...

I think in order to be considered at all you have to have something on your application that makes them think you would be willing to work with the under served, which makes a lot of sense. If you were trying to train dentists that will go into the inner city and work with the population that they want to reach, a class full of frat daddies and others from higher up on the socioeconomic scale wouldn't help you achieve your goals. Gross generalization because of course some of them might want to go that route, but I'd be willing to bet that is not the usual case.

Okay, there, now that's out of the way. Let's get to what you want to argue about. Race and equality. Let's play a hypothetical game. Let's say that screw it, Meharry and Howard no longer want to be HBCU and no longer give preferences to URM. How many URM students do you see at the nonHBCU schools? Somewhere around 10% now I would guess(it was 11.72 in 2003). So Meharry and Howard's student population would now reflect the average. So the amount of URM practitioners drops. What would happen to access for those in lower socioeconomic areas? I am quoting this study: http://www.jdentaled.org/content/68/10/1112.full.pdf

ADEA Senior Survey fro 2002 reported that African Americans planned practice locations where the majority of patients
will be from inner-city or underserved populations in a higher percentage of white students; the percentage for AA students was 68.7 percent, while that of white students was 20 percent.

The data is a little old but I assume the average white/Asian/Indian practitioner still does not go into dentistry for the noble reason of treating the poor in Detroit or Tucson.

So where does this hypothetical situation put us now? All dental schools have a "fair" student body class ("fair" being subjective because we all know how confusing the whole admissions process is anyways) and everything is find and dandy right? Who cares if access to care is equal, as long as admissions into dental school is a fair game right?

Let me ask another question. How do you rate the "best qualified" dental students? Those with the best scores? Those with the best social skills? I'm not 100% sure how it works, but I assume that dental schools admit students that they feel fit with their school's mission and philosophy. Race isn't the only thing that gets discriminated in dental school admissions (nor in life).

 

[Phuhseeshus]

School admissions is only a small part of what I was referring to. Historically, there was indeed a huge degree of discrimination against many non-whites, but especially blacks. Consequently, it was quite understandable that some institutions made an effort to combat this blatant racism by offering greater opportunities for minorities. Is this still the case today though? Or have we put so much emphasis on political correctness that it, at (increasingly frequent) times, is more of a societal blight than an instrument for the nobler purpose of its origins?

As for Meharry's selectivity, I have no problem with this statement, "They are looking for those average students who have volunteered in an underserved community or has a disadvantaged status" by yko0584. But how does this justify a racial preference? Can this not apply to any race? We'll say (whether true or not), @fatham878, that a majority of African Americans entering the dental field do indeed want to help the underserved. But let's expand our scope of examination to all university institutions, regardless of discipline (or beyond to a majority of sociopolitical and economic entities). A majority of careers are not aimed at helping the underserved. What then can partiality do in the name of fairness? I'm all about helping those who are "underserved" or are lacking financially, but this isn't limited to any one race. How far can we proceed before it isn't "fair" any longer? For example, a good friend of mine, who is very intelligent, upper middle class, and a minority, has nearly a full ride at her undergraduate school. $9,000+ of that/year is simply due to her "cultural diversity" (race) - unrelated to anything she has done aside from being born. Is this fair?

By all means, recruit those who seek to help the underserved. Offer assistance to those who wouldn't normally be able to afford an education. But beyond specific instances where it is actually applicable, please - don't show preference to some because of their race. We're all supposed to be equal as Americans, right?

 

[djd0516]

@fatham878 It's hard see anything but race when the it's part of the school's mission statement. It's one thing to focus on URM, but focusing on a specific race is...well...racist.

Imagine the outrage if Meharry's "vision statement" favored caucasians alone:

"To identify, mentor, train and educate a diverse group of the next generation of dental practitioners, faculty and researchers, placing special emphasis on Caucasians and other people not of color from privileged backgrounds, who will lead our communities nationally and internationally in the advancement of oral health care."

It's an interesting argument, but I couldn't really care less about Meharry and Howard. I mean, come on, does anyone go to these schools because they're good schools or do they go because that's the only place they can get in?

To answer the OP's question: watch this YouTube video from Meharry and I doubt you'll still want to apply.

 

[MasterDental]

I don't know why people don't like Meharry. I went there for an interview , and felt at home. Everyone was super nice and the vibe coming from students and staff members was incredible. Aside form being expensive, I wouldnt mind going to Meharry. I liked it.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[fatham878]

@djd0516 Let's be honest, you didn't read anything but my first sentence did you? That's okay. I'll pick and choose what I want to reply to from your post as well, just to return the favor.

Your statement about the quality of the schools, though, is bothersome. What experience with either schools do you have? Have you visited either, met any alumni? Or are your opinions on the school based solely on the tales you've heard from others? Strong support, that.

In response to the video you posted, it is a video that they play at their annual ball/dance/whatever you want to call it. It's not supposed to advertise the school's merits (or in your opinion, their lack thereof), but it was meant as an enjoyable, playful reflection on their experiences in dental school thus far. I met some of the students in the video, and while I can't say for certain, it seems to me that most if not all of the students are acting at least to some extent. A lot in the video was exaggerated for humor, I would guess. Taken out of context, the video makes the school like silly, yes. But then again, doesn't the say something about the atmosphere of the school? There are even faculty members that participated in the video if I remember correctly, so again doesn't that say something about the relationship between the professors and their students?

I am worried about the message you are sending when you say "Look at this video, look at these people. This is why you don't want to go to Meharry." What's so bad about the video? Are you offput by the dialects of some of the students? When I watched the video, I saw a tight-knit class of students who had just gone through some of the toughest years of their lives relieving some stress and having some fun.

@Phuhseeshus You and I have similar views, but I think something has been lost in translation. Your friend's situation irks me as well, but I still think it's different than the Meharry/Howard situation because she is receiving the scholarship solely due to race. Admissions to these schools is not solely due to race. It makes discussion about the topic tougher when we broaden it to include all other institutions/professions/selective processes/etc. Though I definitely appreciate the friendly debate

 

[gn4]

@djd0516 I know two people who got into other schools and still chose Howard. The girl got into LECOM, ASDOH, and NYU. She still chose Howard. Her dad graduated from dental school there too. The guy is from N. Carolina and got into ECU. He chose to go to Howard. He also went to Howard for undergrad. So, what you're saying is not true. Dunno if you just trolling.

 

[LaughingGas]

Phuhseeshus, to consider only selecting applicants based on intellect, social ability, interest, involvement, and achievement would not be fair. It all goes to socioeconomic background; people with $$ have more chance to become more "knowledgeable", which often is confused with intellect, obviously more chance to have involvement (including volunteering for the underserved) and achievements. Sure, there are people that can handle both work and school, but obviously applicants that can only focus in school can have more things done, instead of worrying how to feed their family or not lose their home. I understand where you are coming from. I work with URM students, that have great potentials, but many unseen factors that also limit their potentials. Plus, if you go by "stereotype", Asians and Indians would be the majority of student body for health professions, but caucasians are the majority in the student body. Isn't that more racist?

 

[tooth knockn]

Does anyone else get annoyed that people get special consideration because of their race/ethnicity? Why should an African American have any advantage over an Indian, Korean, or white American? Why should any race have an advantage over another? My white friends don't get an advantage because their melanin concentration is lower.

Why not just accept students into an institution based on their intellect, social ability, interest, involvement, and achievement? Shouldn't those be more important than race? My view isn't racist - it's fair. Americans in particular venerate race, unless you're white. Then nobody cares. In fact, then it's OK to be racist against whites with no repercussions - who cares if you call them a cracker, or some other derogatory term? But heaven help you if you even think about a black joke. RACIST! Why is there differential treatment in how we view select races? Am I advocating racism? Absolutely not. But the very idea of offering some advantages, based on skin color seems a bit... I don't know... racist.

It is fair, it is obvious that this country was built on racism and the use of colored people as slaves.
That was before, and now it is time to give back and allow advantages for those groups of people who were victims of racism and other types of looked down upon behavior by the whites of this country.

It is beautiful that there is such a school.


Posted using SDN Mobile

 

[Ferneezy]

ITT: people fail to recognize white privilege has been and still is a very real thing

To answer the OP's question: watch this YouTube video from Meharry and I doubt you'll still want to apply.

watch this YouTube video from Harvard and I doubt you'll still want to apply.

 

[Phuhseeshus]

It is fair, it is obvious that this country was built on racism and the use of colored people as slaves.
That was before, and now it is time to give back and allow advantages for those groups of people who were victims of racism and other types of looked down upon behavior by the whites of this country.

It is beautiful that there is such a school.


Posted using SDN Mobile

You're trying to use satire right? Because this country was established long before the slaves were transported here. Also, I never enslaved anybody, nor have 99.999% of people in America in this day and age. Oh, and the people whose ancestors were slaves... that was their ancestors, not them. But if I'm wrong, please point out all people today, in America, that are currently slaves in the same respect as the African Americans of the 1800s.

 

[fatham878]

You're trying to use satire right? Because this country was established long before the slaves were transported here. Also, I never enslaved anybody, nor have 99.999% of people in America in this day and age. Oh, and the people whose ancestors were slaves... that was their ancestors, not them. But if I'm wrong, please point out all people today, in America, that are currently slaves in the same respect as the African Americans of the 1800s.

I figured I would do some fact checking. From http://www.history.com/topics/black-history/slavery ...
Jamestown, first permanent English colonial settlement, founded 1607
First slaves arrived in 1619. I don't think the country was established in 12 years.

Also, it is true that nobody today was is a slave in the same respect as those in the 1800s. How does that translate to being able to say that slavery isn't affecting people today? Did you ever consider that their history of being enslaved could have contributed to the lives of the African Americans today? While American was rapidly developing into the great country it is today, black families had less of a chance (if any) to get a piece of the monetary pie. Even when slavery was abolished, the African American community in America had a lot of catching up to do, economically, socially, academically... in all areas, I would say.

From http://www.hist.umn.edu/~ruggles/Articles/Af-Am-fam.pdf (a little old, from 1994, but I don't feel like doing a deep, deep research inquiry as you haven't done any)

Since the turn of the century, social theorists have argued that slavery resulted in disorganization and instability in black families (DuBois 1899, 1909; Elkins 1963; Frazier 1932, 1939; Myrdal 1944)

Do you disagree with that?

EDIT: I noticed that this thread has a ridiculous amount of views, and I think a large part of it is because there is scant information about the school elsewhere. I know that when I was researching Meharry I could not find much of anything to help me make a decision. Most of the previous posts have been similar to gn4 old post or djd's post; "Meharry is bad. End of story, don't go there." They don't offer any argument as to why or how. I would be surprised if any of the authors of these posts have ever tried to learn anything about the school, other than what they've heard from others (resulting in a vicious cycle of misinformation!)

For anybody reading this thread to learn about Meharry, please notice that the people who have interviewed or visited the school have said positive things about the school.

 

[hitmans45]

I hope people do realize that blatant racism was common just one generation ago. My father is 61, meaning he grew up in a time where things were not ideal for blacks. Racial violence was common and even institutionalized since police brutality was so prevalent. (Reference point: The movie Remember the Titans took place in the 70's!) People see videos of Martin Luther King Jr. and think that was such a long time ago. The father of a black student our age did not only face persecution but was not given the same opportunities as others. Less chance for education, less chance of making a decent living, even if he were as hard working and intelligent as anyone else. His father before him (or the student's grandfather) was around when lynching was a large issue (last recorded lynching actually happened in 1998) and he had zero chance for an education. So this obviously affects the socioeconomic status of today's student, not to mention their state of mind. White privilege isn't a term to make white people feel guilty, its for people to realize that before a child is even born they are given privileges that others are not afforded. Not solely based on their skin color, but their history. If your father's poor, your'e more likely to be poor and if your'e father is less educated....just look at each dental school; most schools have 0-2 black students. Its easy to tell an individual to worker harder and overcome but a whole people? It isn't fair for these schools to consider race? The reason these schools even exist is because the world is not fair. And to state that no one today is affected by slavery is mind blowing.

 

[djd0516]

@djd0516 I know two people who got into other schools and still chose Howard. The girl got into LECOM, ASDOH, and NYU. She still chose Howard. Her dad graduated from dental school there too. The guy is from N. Carolina and got into ECU. He chose to go to Howard. He also went to Howard for undergrad. So, what you're saying is not true. Dunno if you just trolling.

I was referring to the majority of applicants to Meharry/Howard. Knowing one person who chose Howard over more expensive schools, who will also be a legacy, isn't the typical situation. As far as the NC resident, I respect the decision to choose Howard over ECU because ECU is still a very new school with some major kinks to work out. That being said, I understand your disagreement with my opinion and that's okay. It doesn't mean I'm wrong, and it doesn't mean you're wrong.

@fatham878 I apologize for offending you with my post. It was not my intention. I'm simply saying that I believe it's unfair and blatantly racist for schools to focus on accepting applicants based on their race. Why is the average GPA at Howard/Meharry 3.00 and DAT 17? That's outrageous and doesn't give the schools much credibility from my perspective. Are they ignoring the basic criteria all dental schools use to rate applicants and using race a more important factor? You are correct that I haven't met alumni or students from Meharry so I agree that I am ignorant in that aspect. Maybe my opinion would change if I visited the school. Their mission statement cries "diversity" but do you see diversity in that video? I don't. Why are other schools pressured to be politically correct while HBCU can do as they wish? Just my opinion, not an attack.


Hey @Ferneezy, black people can be privileged too.

 

[fatham878]

@djd0516 Thanks for apologizing. I probably overreacted a little, but it is a heated topic so of course tempers will flare. It's really refreshing to see that we can be civil when it's threatening to go a little too far though. I am with you though in that the averages of the incoming classes are something to be concerned about. Yet I think board passing rates would be more telling, and the current senior class told me that only 1 or 2 had issues with the boards and that was because of personal reasons/procrastinating. I will probably never know how important of a role race plays in their admissions, but I am sure that they do not just blatantly ignore all other criteria. Surely they believe that everyone they accept has the potential to graduate and be successful.

Another thing to think about regarding the GPA/DAT scores is the fact that those who are applying to dental schools and are considering Meharry/Howard probably do some research on the schools, and trust me, I know that if you do a search for Meharry or Howard on the pre-dent forums, you would be pretty discouraged from going there. So students with higher stats don't even consider them/accept their offers. Again, it's a vicious cycle!

As for the diversity thing... Take a look at this picture of the Class of 2017.

https://scontent-b-iad.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ash3/t1.0-9/1797336_617054790947_1662559920_n.jpg

Looks pretty diverse to me. I hate to post their picture on here, but I think it really does demonstrate the school's diversity.

 

[rnco]

Cliff Notes:

1) Black people cannot be racists.

2) Nothing compares to the "black experience" with respect to slavery and racism.

3) When non-black people experience economic hardships, the appropriate response is the following:

a) tough ****

b) typical immigrant story, you're not special

c) who cares?

4) When non-black people overcome economic hardships, it's nothing to be proud of and it is to be trivialized because they had a 350 year head start and in no way does it compare to the "black experience."

 

[rnco]

@fatham878 It's hard see anything but race when the it's part of the school's mission statement. It's one thing to focus on URM, but focusing on a specific race is...well...racist.

Imagine the outrage if Meharry's "vision statement" favored caucasians alone:

"To identify, mentor, train and educate a diverse group of the next generation of dental practitioners, faculty and researchers, placing special emphasis on Caucasians and other people not of color from privileged backgrounds, who will lead our communities nationally and internationally in the advancement of oral health care."

It's an interesting argument, but I couldn't really care less about Meharry and Howard. I mean, come on, does anyone go to these schools because they're good schools or do they go because that's the only place they can get in?

To answer the OP's question: watch this YouTube video from Meharry and I doubt you'll still want to apply.

Dey beez getting deyz learn on!!!!!

 

[Phuhseeshus]

I figured I would do some fact checking. From http://www.history.com/topics/black-history/slavery ...
Jamestown, first permanent English colonial settlement, founded 1607
First slaves arrived in 1619. I don't think the country was established in 13 years.

Also, it is true that nobody today was is a slave in the same respect as those in the 1800s. How does that translate to being able to say that slavery isn't affecting people today? Did you ever consider that their history of being enslaved could have contributed to the lives of the African Americans today? While American was rapidly developing into the great country it is today, black families had less of a chance (if any) to get a piece of the monetary pie. Even when slavery was abolished, the African American community in America had a lot of catching up to do, economically, socially, academically... in all areas, I would say.

From http://www.hist.umn.edu/~ruggles/Articles/Af-Am-fam.pdf (a little old, from 1994, but I don't feel like doing a deep, deep research inquiry as you haven't done any)


Do you disagree with that?

EDIT: I noticed that this thread has a ridiculous amount of views, and I think a large part of it is because there is scant information about the school elsewhere. I know that when I was researching Meharry I could not find much of anything to help me make a decision. Most of the previous posts have been similar to gn4 old post or djd's post; "Meharry is bad. End of story, don't go there." They don't offer any argument as to why or how. I would be surprised if any of the authors of these posts have ever tried to learn anything about the school, other than what they've heard from others (resulting in a vicious cycle of misinformation!)

For anybody reading this thread to learn about Meharry, please notice that the people who have interviewed or visited the school have said positive things about the school.

My apologies - you're correct, I was wrong about the timing of slavery, and didn't look it up at all. In fact, it seems that almost 10% of the population were slaves by the year 1700 (based on some rough wiki demographics). However, to say that the United States was founded on slavery is an exaggeration at best (I realize you're not the one who said that though). The very reason America even began was for freedom from tyranny. I don't deny that there was a time when blacks were disadvantaged because of prejudice/racism/etc. - and there is still racism today to be sure, but it goes both ways. This still doesn't change my thoughts from the beginning though: that we should all be given equal opportunity, no matter what race we are.

I do disagree with your reasoning, because this article isn't about economic effects faced by blacks from slavery. It's about degradation of the black family infrastructure, which it says may have been affected by slavery, but also by black culture. It doesn't talk as much about socioeconomic status, but rather family status. It would be dangerous to say that this led to the hardship they faced in the past with lacking monetarily, because the article makes a point of saying that the infrastructure of white families (AKA, being 2 parent homes) was/is actually weaker than black family infrastructure. This leads us to the conclusion that the hardships they faced were NOT due to slavery, but to discrimination. Once again, I don't deny that they have faced discrimination in the past; but today, if anything, they are favored over white individuals in many instances - such as education - which brings us back to my main frustration (see paragraph below). This article isn't about them trying to clench "a piece of the monetary pie." Slavery isn't the reason. However, if you provide another article that proves otherwise, I'd be happy to read it.

Again though, I'd just like to say that I think it's great to support those who are lacking financially/underprivileged to get an education. I just don't think that race should play any part in this. Help out blacks, whites, and every other race equally.

I'm sure I missed some response somewhere, there's a lot of writing in this thread to sift through.

Edit: I repeated myself a couple of times in here, but am too lazy and tired to change anything to be more grammatically appetizing.

Edit 2: Also, I agree with whoever said that even if they wanted to recruit only minorities with the assumption that they're more likely to help the underprivileged, they shouldn't lower their GPA and DAT standards so far below other schools. However, it is at least some consolation that their board passage rates seem to be good.

Edit 3: @rnco, as blunt and rude as your post sounds, from the general public's perspective it might seem like there is truth to it. But that's likely because we don't hear much about others' struggles. Blacks have definitely faced many well documented struggles such as slavery, but many other races have faced hardships as well - and those may seem to just get blown off/trivialized in comparison. (Edit 4: see Fatham's post below)

 

[fatham878]

@Phuhseeshus Just got home from work, so am too tired to respond to everything but found you your article. http://sf.oxfordjournals.org/content/90/3/713.full
If you can't download the PDF, PM me. If you'd rather not, here's an article that's based off of the study and discusses the issue.
http://blogs.berkeley.edu/2012/05/31/slaverys-heavy-hand/

Actually, here's a quote from the blog that sums up the study

Now, a just-published study reinforces the point, showing that the deeper a southern county’s immersion in slavery in 1860, the greater the black-white inequality in that county in 2000.

Also, @rnco , your comments seem purely inflammatory and really add nothing to the conversation. Did you have a bad day or something? Or are you just sick of all these black people with all their privileges and benefits that they receive due to their history of slavery that doesn't impact their life in anyway today whatsoever?

I also don't think that anybody is trying to say that blacks have had it tougher. Never have I had anybody say to me or even suggest "oh, your dad escaped Vietnam during the war with nothing to his name, on a raft, at age 16, and then made his way to the US and now has a college degree and a stable income that allows for him to provide for his family? Tough ****. His ancestors weren't slaves." Actually, I've never heard anybody suggest anything even close to that idea. Are you saying that other races' plights have been brushed aside because they don't get special treatment? I'm not following.

Either way, I think a large part of your idea of the "trivialization of other races' plights" has to do with the fact that African Americans are the second largest racial/ethnic group in the U.S., by a decent margin. From Wiki, AA's make up 12.4% of the US population. The next closest minority group is Asian Americans, at 4.4% (of which 10% live in Hawaii, where they are actuality the plurality). The Hispanic population is a little tricky to decipher. By numbers, "Hispanics" outnumber African Americans by about 12 million people. However, 62.4% of these Hispanic/Latino Americans identified as white in the census. Native Americans make up 0.8% of the population. I think these numbers explain why white-black inequality is a more prominent in our country versus white-whatever inequalities.

And finally, your comment on the video is pretty damn distasteful and trust me, I am in no way a prude or a fan of being overly PC.

Edit: I went through your previous posts, and it seems you post absolutely nothing helpful and you're just arrogant, rude, and disrespectful. I will never understand people like you who get joy from antagonizing others. I feel sorry for the people who have to put up with you on a daily basis. I hope one day you'll be able to find joy in helping others and just not being an ass in general

 

[tooth knockn]

My apologies - you're correct, I was wrong about the timing of slavery, and didn't look it up at all. In fact, it seems that almost 10% of the population were slaves by the year 1700 (based on some rough wiki demographics). However, to say that the United States was founded on slavery is an exaggeration at best (I realize you're not the one who said that though). The very reason America even began was for freedom from tyranny. I don't deny that there was a time when blacks were disadvantaged because of prejudice/racism/etc. - and there is still racism today to be sure, but it goes both ways. This still doesn't change my thoughts from the beginning though: that we should all be given equal opportunity, no matter what race we are.

I do disagree with your reasoning, because this article isn't about economic effects faced by blacks from slavery. It's about degradation of the black family infrastructure, which it says may have been affected by slavery, but also by black culture. It doesn't talk as much about socioeconomic status, but rather family status. It would be dangerous to say that this led to the hardship they faced in the past with lacking monetarily, because the article makes a point of saying that the infrastructure of white families (AKA, being 2 parent homes) was/is actually weaker than black family infrastructure. This leads us to the conclusion that the hardships they faced were NOT due to slavery, but to discrimination. Once again, I don't deny that they have faced discrimination in the past; but today, if anything, they are favored over white individuals in many instances - such as education - which brings us back to my main frustration (see paragraph below). This article isn't about them trying to clench "a piece of the monetary pie." Slavery isn't the reason. However, if you provide another article that proves otherwise, I'd be happy to read it.

Again though, I'd just like to say that I think it's great to support those who are lacking financially/underprivileged to get an education. I just don't think that race should play any part in this. Help out blacks, whites, and every other race equally.

I'm sure I missed some response somewhere, there's a lot of writing in this thread to sift through.

Edit: I repeated myself a couple of times in here, but am too lazy and tired to change anything to be more grammatically appetizing.

Edit 2: Also, I agree with whoever said that even if they wanted to recruit only minorities with the assumption that they're more likely to help the underprivileged, they shouldn't lower their GPA and DAT standards so far below other schools. However, it is at least some consolation that their board passage rates seem to be good.




blown off/trivialized in comparison.

The Future Dentist.




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[Phuhseeshus]

@Phuhseeshus Just got home from work, so am too tired to respond to everything but found you your article. http://sf.oxfordjournals.org/content/90/3/713.full
If you can't download the PDF, PM me. If you'd rather not, here's an article that's based off of the study and discusses the issue.
http://blogs.berkeley.edu/2012/05/31/slaverys-heavy-hand/

Actually, here's a quote from the blog that sums up the study


Also, @rnco , your comments seem purely inflammatory and really add nothing to the conversation. Did you have a bad day or something? Or are you just sick of all these black people with all their privileges and benefits that they receive due to their history of slavery that doesn't impact their life in anyway today whatsoever?

I also don't think that anybody is trying to say that blacks have had it tougher. Never have I had anybody say to me or even suggest "oh, your dad escaped Vietnam during the war with nothing to his name, on a raft, at age 16, and then made his way to the US and now has a college degree and a stable income that allows for him to provide for his family? Tough ****. His ancestors weren't slaves." Actually, I've never heard anybody suggest anything even close to that idea. Are you saying that other races' plights have been brushed aside because they don't get special treatment? I'm not following.

Either way, I think a large part of your idea of the "trivialization of other races' plights" has to do with the fact that African Americans are the second largest racial/ethnic group in the U.S., by a decent margin. From Wiki, AA's make up 12.4% of the US population. The next closest minority group is Asian Americans, at 4.4% (of which 10% live in Hawaii, where they are actuality the plurality). The Hispanic population is a little tricky to decipher. By numbers, "Hispanics" outnumber African Americans by about 12 million people. However, 62.4% of these Hispanic/Latino Americans identified as white in the census. Native Americans make up 0.8% of the population. I think these numbers explain why white-black inequality is a more prominent in our country versus white-whatever inequalities.

And finally, your comment on the video is pretty damn distasteful and trust me, I am in no way a prude or a fan of being overly PC.

Edit: I went through your previous posts, and it seems you post absolutely nothing helpful and you're just arrogant, rude, and disrespectful. I will never understand people like you who get joy from antagonizing others. I feel sorry for the people who have to put up with you on a daily basis. I hope one day you'll be able to find joy in helping others and just not being an ass in general

Unfortunately I wasn't able to open the PDF, but I did read the blog and tried to look into one of the articles it linked. What I did read seemed to indicate that areas with larger amounts of slavery bred cross-racial discrimination, which has endured in some places today. Some of the areas where blacks suffer the most today were places where slavery was the most prolific, and the racial gap never healed. So yeah, slavery is in part responsible for some of the negative attitudes we see today. Thanks for educating me on that.

This does bring up another question though. Some other cultures, such as Native Americans, have very similar difficulties. I don't know whether or not they were slaves to anyone at any time, but I do know about how they were basically forced into reservations. I think I might do some research of my own; it just seems strange to me that some ethnic groups have had so much trouble recovering, while others have had awful experiences and recovered in healthier ways (the first thing I thought of is the heavy racism against Jews from many different angles, from many different groups worldwide, at many different points in history [but I understand there is also heterogeneity in these events]). There's also the inner-city problems many minorities face, but that's a whole different topic about the culture of poverty.

I think the conclusion I've arrived at from this discussion is that past events can indeed influence society today - I was thinking about it from a one-sided perspective though. What I've heard before is basically, "you should have to pay for what you did to my great great great (insert relative here)!" And that view I wholeheartedly reject, because I did nothing to their relative, nor do they have the least of ideas of the terrible struggles their ancestors actually went through. However, when one rationally examines the implications of the event on a specific racial class, I can at least better understand some of the benefits those races receive. But, stubborn as I am, I still think this should only apply in certain cases where individuals are actually at a disadvantage (see the example I provided several posts up with my $9,000 friend).

The Future Dentist.

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Actually, I don't recall this account ever stating what I was going to do with my life - and I have no obligation to do so. You'll find that I frequent both the medical and dental forums - as they are the most interesting. However, if I was going to be a dentist, or any other health care provider, I don't see what your problem is. You're angry that I don't agree with your view, so you mock me. Would you rather just have a group of thoughtless cyborgs for your healthcare providers that are unable to think critically and all conform to the same view? All professions need different minds to provide checks and balances. I'm allowed to disagree with you, or any other, and that doesn't make me a bad professional unless it affects how I treat those I interact with. I believe I've made it clear through my past posts that all people, regardless of race, should be treated equally. Do you have a problem with this?

 

[tooth knockn]

To PHASEEJASUS

You are entitled to your opinion.

You can post what you want.

We are all equal.

I don't know what else to say to you, but it seems that you were upset that several minority groups had an advantage over 'people with less melatonin in there skin'.













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