men in ob/gyn

[Akamushi]

do they exist anymore?


can they have a sustainable practice?

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[jd807]

I hope so, cause I am applying for ob this year and I am a manly man. I have heard that programs are looking to increase the number of males to around 50%, which is actually not the norm for any program i have looked at. I might be stretching it here, but i would say that men have a slight advantage in the match so programs can meet their numbers.

 

[mailbuddy]

Really...?? Didn't know that they are supposed to increase % of men... Where did you hear this?
I am also applying to Obgyn, don't know where quite yet. Still missing step 2. Where R U applying to?

 

[Heathcliff]

Learn Spanish. The major concern of Spanish-speaking patients is the language barrier, NOT your gender. Check out this article from The Atlanta Journal and Constitution.

 

[ent_doc]

Originally posted by Akamushi
do they exist anymore?

There are men in OB/GYN?

 

[ent_doc]

Originally posted by Heathcliff
Learn Spanish. The major concern of Spanish-speaking patients is the language barrier, NOT your gender. Check out this article from The Atlanta Journal and Constitution.

Very good point. Even "medical spanish" can be very helpful. I spoke passable spanish before internship but did my internship in a facility where >50% of my patients spoke only Spanish. If you're in this boat, give serious consideration to this "immersion."

Speaking Spanish helps my practice tremendously.

 

[mailbuddy]

Interesesting... I do speak spanish since I am a South american medical graduate, although I am a US citizen.

 

[jlinn01]

Just to throw in my 2 cents on the original topic, the three teaching hospitals affiliated with the Ob residency program at my school have more women on staff than men. However, the chairs of the departments at all three hospitals are men, for whatever reason. Probably more significant, the busiest ob at each of the three hospitals is a man in each case.

 

[MacGyver]

Originally posted by jlinn01
Just to throw in my 2 cents on the original topic, the three teaching hospitals affiliated with the Ob residency program at my school have more women on staff than men. However, the chairs of the departments at all three hospitals are men, for whatever reason. Probably more significant, the busiest ob at each of the three hospitals is a man in each case.

Thats because women ob/gyns dont want to work the 80 hours/week that the chairmen do.

of course I'm sure we'll have people claim that theres some kind of anti-female bias in ob/gyn, which is dominated by women.

 

[SupportingOccam]

Originally posted by jd807
I hope so, cause I am applying for ob this year and I am a manly man. I have heard that programs are looking to increase the number of males to around 50%, which is actually not the norm for any program i have looked at. I might be stretching it here, but i would say that men have a slight advantage in the match so programs can meet their numbers.

I've heard from a senior ob/gyn that the program at Indiana University is aiming for at least 70/30 f/m distribution. Some joke that there's actually an affirmative action plan for the Y chromosome in a lot of programs.

On a related note, one OB/GYN told me that men are more attractive to a group practice as increasing numbers of women are choosing the specialty with an interest in less-than full-time work (for families or other interests). This favorability assumes that the male will more "full-time," able to anchor a practice or at least be often available. Maybe some other practicing OBs could comment.

 

[ent_doc]

Originally posted by SupportingOccam
I've heard from a senior ob/gyn that the program at Indiana University is aiming for at least 70/30 f/m distribution. Some joke that there's actually an affirmative action plan for the Y chromosome in a lot of programs.

On a related note, one OB/GYN told me that men are more attractive to a group practice as increasing numbers of women are choosing the specialty with an interest in less-than full-time work (for families or other interests). This favorability assumes that the male will more "full-time," able to anchor a practice or at least be often available. Maybe some other practicing OBs could comment.

Doesn't sound like a very appealing reason for a man to enter such a practice...picking up slack?

 

[Heathcliff]

I am not sure what Indiana University is thinking. Increasing the number of men will not decrease the number of patients who prefer to have a woman as their doctor.

And I don't think it is possible for either men or women to "pick up slack", at least not when it comes to delivering babies, because insurance companies limit the number of babies you can deliver per year, including any emergency room drop-ins.

Man, this is making me sick! Is the situation better outside of the U.S.?

 

[SupportingOccam]

Originally posted by Heathcliff
I am not sure what Indiana University is thinking. Increasing the number of men will not decrease the number of patients who prefer to have a woman as their doctor.

And I don't think it is possible for either men or women to "pick up slack", at least not when it comes to delivering babies, because insurance companies limit the number of babies you can deliver per year, including any emergency room drop-ins.

Man, this is making me sick! Is the situation better outside of the U.S.?

Just how many women don't want a male OB-GYN? I'm sure someone has studied this... From discussion with others in life on this subject, it seems like at least 20% of women want a male for whatever reason. Reasons that women have told me (I'm a male) include (I'm NOT supporting these views, but they among others are out there):

1) Some women just trust male physicians more than females for ~oldschool/paternalistic reasons
2) Some women think that female physicians are less understanding of complaints than male physicians, or feel that men are less likely to be judgemental regarding the complaint
3) Some women see female physicians as more prone to taking a "honey we all have to deal with it" approach. I've seen this first-hand as a student, especially in OB (not GYN)
4) Some women see men as more aggressive in taking care of pain issues
5) Some percentage of women simply don't care if their doc is male or female

At the same time: A high percentage of women never will want a male OB-GYN under any circumstances. . I know one patient who had to have an all-female pre-op, operative, and post-op staff with zero males...including physicians. I respect her wishes...and would have never guessed she was so concerned having had another interaction with her in different primary care setting. Any woman who falls into this category should disclaim this position when talking about this issue

Again, I don't have numbers, but a 70/30 f/m split doesn't seem unreasonable, but I may be wrong.

 

[Heathcliff]

A survey was done in 2001 that stated:

"The issue of physician gender is also an important criterion for women," Dr. Miller said. According to the Gallup survey, about half (47%) of the women surveyed prefer a female ob/gyn, while 15% state a preference for a male ob/gyn, and 37% say they have no preference.

"Women under age 55, especially those under 30, are more likely to say they prefer a female than those age 55-65 (53% among those age 18-29 vs. 39% among women age 55-65)," according to Dr. Miller. "One in every five women age 55-65 say they prefer a male ob/gyn. However, across all age groups, more than one-third say they have no gender preference.


Personally, I think the percentages are way off target. If you want to read the entire article, which includes additional statistics, click here.

 

[SupportingOccam]

Personally, I think the percentages are way off target.

How so? Specifically why? Those numbers seem to make jive with people I've spoken to. Do you think that Gallup conducted a poor survey?

Do you fall into the group who could never have a male ob-gyn, and can't imagine for the life of you how some other woman could? If so, please don't try to recreate the rest of us in your image.

 

[Heathcliff]

Obviously your experiences have been different, so I won't bore you with the things my upper level colleagues have gone through. I will say this:

The information was posted by ACOG (American College of Obstetricians and Gynecologists). Do you really think they would post anything that would discourage males from applying to the specialty?

The trend now is the "all-female practice." An article about this also came out in 2001. I have not seen, read, or heard about any complaints from the 15% of patients who prefer men. You can read the article here.

By the way, I am a guy.

 

[AZDOC]

I am a male applying for OB/GYN this year and have attended ACOG and spoke with many program directors. The "trend" right now is to increase the percentage of males in OB/GYN. Many practices are starting to ask for male to hire after residency. If you are a male and interested in OB/GYN you should apply and not worry about the female to male ratio that will exist.

 

[MacGyver]

I dont have a problem with men being discriminated against in ob/gyn.

But if thats the game we're going to play, then women have NO RIGHT to bitch about discrimination in urology--I'd better not hear a word from them about how its a male dominated field and hard for women to break into.

What works for women also works for men.

 

[Heathcliff]

Even if you choose to ignore the female to male ratio, Ob/Gyn still has problems (see the ACOG article, "Dissatisfaction Up, Residency Applications Down, in Ob-Gyn"). I am beginning to wonder if the specialty is worth all of the hassles.

Don't get me wrong. I applied to medical school specifically to become an Ob/Gyn. I chose my user name because Dr. Heathcliff Huxtable was an obstetrician on "The Cosby Show" and this sparked my interest in the specialty (along with "The Miracle of Life" episode on NOVA). Although I am a man, I think learning Spanish will be the key to my success in Ob/Gyn, if I still decide to go into it.

I hope you know what you're getting yourself into, AZDOC. Good luck!

 

[AZDOC]

I am well aware of what I am getting myself into Heathcliff. I have done 5 ob/gyn rotations and a couple of them were at very busy hospitals. I have been on call q 3 for a month. It is a great field and you have to work hard, but if you love it go for it. Make sure that you do a few rotations as a 3rd and 4th year to be sure that you love it. After residency you can taylor you schedule. Plus, during residency the hospitals that I have been at are great about the 80 hour rule and the 30 hour rule. These rules have made ob/gyn appealing to more people.

 

[leviathan]

Just curious...why DO males want to practice in OB/GYN? In my own opinion as a guy, I don't see practicing in this field as being very exciting unless you were doing it for perverted reasons. Not trying to make anyone angry by saying that, because I know nobody would do it for that reason...I'm just lost on what is captivating about it...can any males in or planning to enter OB/GYN let me know why they chose to do so?

 

[neilc]

i am interested in it for the following reasons:
1. very rewarding, with relatively healthy patients...start with a healthy mom and wind up with a healthy baby also!
2. lots of procedures
3. lots of primary care

not many other specialties have such a nice blend of office/OR. i do also like gen surg, and i am seriously considering it as well.

i really don't think being a male does (or should have) anything to do with it...in almost any specialty you are going to come into contact with the oppostite sex pretty regularly. i don't see why people make such a big deal out of it. really baffles me.

 

[ZanMD]

Originally posted by leviathan
Just curious...why DO males want to practice in OB/GYN? In my own opinion as a guy, I don't see practicing in this field as being very exciting unless you were doing it for perverted reasons. Not trying to make anyone angry by saying that, because I know nobody would do it for that reason...I'm just lost on what is captivating about it...can any males in or planning to enter OB/GYN let me know why they chose to do so?

How very chauvanistic of you. As someone pointed out, if you see it all day, you don't want to go home and eat bread. So obviously this requires a certain commitment. No matter how interested in sex I am, I wouldn't want to overkill for perverted reason. How sad that you have that viewpoint.

 

[PTCA]

Originally posted by Heathcliff
I am not sure what Indiana University is thinking. Increasing the number of men will not decrease the number of patients who prefer to have a woman as their doctor.

And I don't think it is possible for either men or women to "pick up slack", at least not when it comes to delivering babies, because insurance companies limit the number of babies you can deliver per year, including any emergency room drop-ins.

Man, this is making me sick! Is the situation better outside of the U.S.?

The status of this specialty in the US is an absolute mystery to me !
UK
20% women (and although I have no data my personal experience would be that men tend to get more respect)
Competitiveness 5/5 (among the most difficult Sprs to get into. Recently they had to reduce recruitment due to its large popularity)
Pay comparable to optho or ortho!

 

[dkwyler94]

Originally posted by leviathan
Just curious...why DO males want to practice in OB/GYN? In my own opinion as a guy, I don't see practicing in this field as being very exciting unless you were doing it for perverted reasons. Not trying to make anyone angry by saying that, because I know nobody would do it for that reason...I'm just lost on what is captivating about it...can any males in or planning to enter OB/GYN let me know why they chose to do so?

I am glad that you don't think anyone would do it for perverted reasons. I would think the reasons a male wants to practice OB/GYN would be identical to the reasons a female would. I am thinking of it because it has a good mixture of clinic and surgery. I really don't like working around people where I have to worry about catching something(talking about the cold, flu and stuff of FP and Peds), it is really a lot of fun to share in the excitement of someone having a child, and I can get into a residency. (Hey, I'm not the smartest guy around )

To each their own though. One field isn't right for everyone. While I enjoy my FP rotation I am on now, I would drop out of medical school before I would consider doing it for a career. And Derm... something about Hell and an icestorm comes to mind.

 

[jmarra03]

I know the OBGYN I shadowed with ( who is a DO) has a great practice) he is in a group practice and also does surgical rounds at a local hospital.

 

[leviathan]

How very chauvanistic of you. As someone pointed out, if you see it all day, you don't want to go home and eat bread. So obviously this requires a certain commitment. No matter how interested in sex I am, I wouldn't want to overkill for perverted reason. How sad that you have that viewpoint.

Go back, open your eyes, and read this time *verrry slowly*... I made it clear I didn't have this viewpoint. *Sigh* why do some people in this world have a complete lack of reading comprehension.

 

[Popoy]

i am interested in it for the following reasons:
1. very rewarding, with relatively healthy patients...start with a healthy mom and wind up with a healthy baby also!
2. lots of procedures
3. lots of primary care

not many other specialties have such a nice blend of office/OR. i do also like gen surg, and i am seriously considering it as well.

i really don't think being a male does (or should have) anything to do with it...in almost any specialty you are going to come into contact with the oppostite sex pretty regularly. i don't see why people make such a big deal out of it. really baffles me.

I agree....
1) Relatively healthy patients
2) Surgical procedures
3) Primary care

 

[Oats]

Just how many women don't want a male OB-GYN? I'm sure someone has studied this... From discussion with others in life on this subject, it seems like at least 20% of women want a male for whatever reason. Reasons that women have told me (I'm a male) include (I'm NOT supporting these views, but they among others are out there):

1) Some women just trust male physicians more than females for ~oldschool/paternalistic reasons
2) Some women think that female physicians are less understanding of complaints than male physicians, or feel that men are less likely to be judgemental regarding the complaint
3) Some women see female physicians as more prone to taking a "honey we all have to deal with it" approach. I've seen this first-hand as a student, especially in OB (not GYN)
4) Some women see men as more aggressive in taking care of pain issues
5) Some percentage of women simply don't care if their doc is male or female

At the same time: A high percentage of women never will want a male OB-GYN under any circumstances. . I know one patient who had to have an all-female pre-op, operative, and post-op staff with zero males...including physicians. I respect her wishes...and would have never guessed she was so concerned having had another interaction with her in different primary care setting. Any woman who falls into this category should disclaim this position when talking about this issue

Again, I don't have numbers, but a 70/30 f/m split doesn't seem unreasonable, but I may be wrong.

From a females point of view here. My first OB/GYN was female and I saw her for 4-5 years. I never felt comfortable with her, so I decided to try a male OB/GYN. He has been my doctor now for 6 years and I would never even CONSIDER going back to a female doc. I agree with #'s 2,3,and 4 above. Also, even though the exam is a medical procedure and NOT of a sexual nature, I found it 'strange' and almost 'unnatural' having a woman examine me. I TRULY hope I don't offend any female OB/GYN by saying that, but it's just my personal feelings. I have just found that I feel more comfortable with a male vs. a female, and I can assure you, I know many, many women who feel the same as me. So, in all seriousness guys, don't get discouraged. Keep doing what you're doing, achieve a great bedside manner, and you will never suffer a lack of pts.
Oh...forgot to mention. My one and only problem with him is that he won't give me that magical pill that cures PMS. I KNOW he's stashing it somewhere. The jerk.

 

[drbizzaro]

wow! i've never heard that side of it...

talking to various girls, i've heard there are quite a few girls who dont want to let a strange male touch their areas because they start feeling aroused.... (these are girls who haven't dated much), and therefore have decided to only go to female gyn..

 

[MacGyver]

talking to various girls, i've heard there are quite a few girls who dont want to let a strange male touch their areas because they start feeling aroused.... (these are girls who haven't dated much), and therefore have decided to only go to female gyn..

I'm calling BS on that. Its incredibly rare for a woman to become "aroused" by an ob/gyn exam. Now, a male having his genitals examined by a female doc on the other hand....

 

[drbizzaro]

I'm calling BS on that. Its incredibly rare for a woman to become "aroused" by an ob/gyn exam. Now, a male having his genitals examined by a female doc on the other hand....

i'm dead serious about this man.... dead serious!

i KNOW girls who have been very aroused by male doctors touching them (young male doctors).... however, one of them felt gross by having an "older" doctor touch her... it's all in the mindset of the girl... if she hasn't been touched there before, she may look away... and then when the doctor touches her, she may get aroused...

 

[kwakster928]

i am currently working in the dental field as a side job.

seeing a disgusting mouth is one thing but seeing a disgusting woman private part is just even beyond me. i have great respect for the OB/GYN either male or female. i dont think i can look at it all day for rest of my life. yikes.

 

[drbizzaro]

i am currently working in the dental field as a side job.

seeing a disgusting mouth is one thing but seeing a disgusting woman private part is just even beyond me. i have great respect for the OB/GYN either male or female. i dont think i can look at it all day for rest of my life. yikes.

yeah, but alot of younger women do trim down there, and make sure its well groomed and nice....

 

[asherah]

From a females point of view here. My first OB/GYN was female and I saw her for 4-5 years. I never felt comfortable with her, so I decided to try a male OB/GYN. He has been my doctor now for 6 years and I would never even CONSIDER going back to a female doc. I agree with #'s 2,3,and 4 above. Also, even though the exam is a medical procedure and NOT of a sexual nature, I found it 'strange' and almost 'unnatural' having a woman examine me. I TRULY hope I don't offend any female OB/GYN by saying that, but it's just my personal feelings. I have just found that I feel more comfortable with a male vs. a female, and I can assure you, I know many, many women who feel the same as me. So, in all seriousness guys, don't get discouraged. Keep doing what you're doing, achieve a great bedside manner, and you will never suffer a lack of pts.
Oh...forgot to mention. My one and only problem with him is that he won't give me that magical pill that cures PMS. I KNOW he's stashing it somewhere. The jerk.

You don't realise that you find it unnatural and strange to be examined by a woman, because this is in fact a sexual oriented examination in which you play a passive role . Unconsciously you find it ok to sexually submit yourself to a man. In your case you find it more natural to be examined by a man, for indeed paternalistic reasons, which you are not aware of on a conscious level. It's not because this is a medical exam that it is not sexual.

Why do you think that when children play 'doctorgames' that it is to feel sexually aroused?

You have adopted all the rational arguments that physicians always use to laugh the feelings of their patients away. Though patients can have heavily strong feelings during a medical exam that can have a deep effect on their subconscious mind for the rest of their lives.

 

[Drakensoul]

You don't realise that you find it unnatural and strange to be examined by a woman, because this is in fact a sexual oriented examination in which you play a passive role . Unconsciously you find it ok to sexually submit yourself to a man. In your case you find it more natural to be examined by a man, for indeed paternalistic reasons, which you are not aware of on a conscious level. It's not because this is a medical exam that it is not sexual.

Why do you think that when children play 'doctorgames' that it is to feel sexually aroused?

You have adopted all the rational arguments that physicians always use to laugh the feelings of their patients away. Though patients can have heavily strong feelings during a medical exam that can have a deep effect on their subconscious mind for the rest of their lives.

RoFL this just gets more and more awesome

Please, asherah, continue to tell Oetzi more about herself. You've never met her, you don't even know her name, but by all means, you have her all figured out, don't you. You don't know anything about her at all, yet you presume that you have pegged down exactly how she thinks, even if she doesn't know. Just can't stand the idea that there might be women who don't give a testicle about GYN exams, can you?

What you're basically doing is defining yourself as a "real" woman, and saying that all women have to hate GYN exams as much as you do. You're saying that there can't possibly be a woman who doesn't feel negatively about them, or she isn't really a woman because she "doesn't have respect for herself," thereby removing her from the group of "women," and further isolating yourself from anyone who might disagree with you. Either that, or you'll say that she really does have a problem with it, but she just doesn't know because it's subconscious... of course you, being telepathic and all, do know, because you can read her subconscious mind.

Let me know how that works out!

 

[Sweet Tea]

You don't realise that you find it unnatural and strange to be examined by a woman, because this is in fact a sexual oriented examination in which you play a passive role . Unconsciously you find it ok to sexually submit yourself to a man. In your case you find it more natural to be examined by a man, for indeed paternalistic reasons, which you are not aware of on a conscious level. It's not because this is a medical exam that it is not sexual.

Why do you think that when children play 'doctorgames' that it is to feel sexually aroused?

You have adopted all the rational arguments that physicians always use to laugh the feelings of their patients away. Though patients can have heavily strong feelings during a medical exam that can have a deep effect on their subconscious mind for the rest of their lives.

wow. that's all i have to say. wow.

 

[Oats]

You don't realise that you find it unnatural and strange to be examined by a woman, because this is in fact a sexual oriented examination in which you play a passive role . Unconsciously you find it ok to sexually submit yourself to a man. In your case you find it more natural to be examined by a man, for indeed paternalistic reasons, which you are not aware of on a conscious level. It's not because this is a medical exam that it is not sexual.

Why do you think that when children play 'doctorgames' that it is to feel sexually aroused?

You have adopted all the rational arguments that physicians always use to laugh the feelings of their patients away. Though patients can have heavily strong feelings during a medical exam that can have a deep effect on their subconscious mind for the rest of their lives.

OMG. You can't POSSIBLY be serious. Paternalistic reasons of which I'm not aware? Are you trying to insinuate that at some point in my life I was molested by my FATHER? Before you even THINK about going down that road, I would strongly advise you to re-think it. This is a post about men in the OB/GYN profession. DO NOT turn this into an assault on my life, lady. YOU KNOW NOTHING ABOUT ME OR WHERE I COME FROM. AND DON'T YOU EVER DARE TO PRESUME THAT YOU DO. You would be WELL advised to bring your posts back down a notch.
As for everything else you said......

 

[DrMom]

since you two ladies are so opposed to gyn exams, why are you hanging out in a gyn forum?

 

[Global Disrobal]

They're trying to convert us Rapists... oh wait, you are not a male like me, sorry!

I for one have begun re-examining my ways and am considering a switch to psychiatry to do away with my rapist ways.

 

[drbizzaro]

wow... this thread has turned crazy!

however, i still think women (some of them) will and are turned on by male gyn....during the exams... especially if they've never been touched there before

 

[Sweet Tea]

wow... this thread has turned crazy!

however, i still think women (some of them) will and are turned on by male gyn....during the exams... especially if they've never been touched there before

er, no. not quite.

 

[Drakensoul]

wow... this thread has turned crazy!

however, i still think women (some of them) will and are turned on by male gyn....during the exams... especially if they've never been touched there before

Oh, lord, you can't even imagine the hell that you've unearthed upon us by saying that. Janice and her newfound posse will be along to grind you to a fine minced meat soon.

 

[asherah]

RoFL this just gets more and more awesome

Please, asherah, continue to tell Oetzi more about herself. You've never met her, you don't even know her name, but by all means, you have her all figured out, don't you. You don't know anything about her at all, yet you presume that you have pegged down exactly how she thinks, even if she doesn't know. Just can't stand the idea that there might be women who don't give a testicle about GYN exams, can you?

What you're basically doing is defining yourself as a "real" woman, and saying that all women have to hate GYN exams as much as you do. You're saying that there can't possibly be a woman who doesn't feel negatively about them, or she isn't really a woman because she "doesn't have respect for herself," thereby removing her from the group of "women," and further isolating yourself from anyone who might disagree with you. Either that, or you'll say that she really does have a problem with it, but she just doesn't know because it's subconscious... of course you, being telepathic and all, do know, because you can read her subconscious mind.

Let me know how that works out!

It's typical for a group that is and has been for long time oppressed by another group, that this first group doesn't stand strong as a unit due to misconceptions spread by their oppressors. Only logical that there are disagreements amongst women about female issues. Not that we have to agree about everything, but a lot of standard ideas about women in general has it's roots in the false ideas that were and are spread by men.
And this again, has certainly not changed in the gynecology industry which I already explained in another posting.

You just simply can't deny that the past doesn't have any influence on the present time.

You're pleasure only is to increase those disagreements amongst women, put them against each other even more by making them believe that the emancipation of women is already fulfilled and that all that patriarchal domination is something of the past.(which you can not have an opinion about as a man)
Not because we women have accomplished already a lot, that we don't need to question anything anymore about general ideas about ourselves, that would only be stupid.

You need to redicule those other thinking women, to prevent other women from starting to think critically about these issues as well, because you have all the benefits to prevent women from becoming a strong unit and convince those who still believe your sexistic ideas about women, that this is the norm. Your status as a male ob/gyn is in danger and you know it. You wouldn't be spending so much energy otherwise on my postings.

And for your information, I don't need to define myself as a "real" woman, since I am a woman and real, and I do not consider any other woman not to be real. What else could they be then?

 

[asherah]

OMG. You can't POSSIBLY be serious. Paternalistic reasons of which I'm not aware? Are you trying to insinuate that at some point in my life I was molested by my FATHER? Before you even THINK about going down that road, I would strongly advise you to re-think it. This is a post about men in the OB/GYN profession. DO NOT turn this into an assault on my life, lady. YOU KNOW NOTHING ABOUT ME OR WHERE I COME FROM. AND DON'T YOU EVER DARE TO PRESUME THAT YOU DO. You would be WELL advised to bring your posts back down a notch.
As for everything else you said......

Oetzi, you don't even know what the word 'paternalistic' means. It doesn't have anything to do with YOUR father.

paternalistic/paternalism is the attitude of people in authority that subordinates should be controlled in a fatherly way for their own good.

And please, don't feel so attacked when somebody gives her view on certain issues, if you don't accept it, it doesn't mean you have to get inflamed like this.

Try to react in a mature way, before you let your emotions run high, after all this is a discussion board.

 

[DrMom]

Your status as a male ob/gyn is in danger and you know it. You wouldn't be spending so much energy otherwise on my postings.

I can guarantee you that nobody here is responding to your/Janice's posts because they feel threatened. Many are trying to educate you two about women's health. Others are trying to figure out if you really think this stuff or if you are just here yanking our chains. And some just pop in for the entertainment value of it all.

 

[Drakensoul]

Your status as a male ob/gyn is in danger and you know it. You wouldn't be spending so much energy otherwise on my postings.

These types of statements are basically the childish "I know you are, but what am I?!" rhetoric. No, no one is in any danger of losing his job as an OB/GYN here. Certainly not because of people with your mentality. OBs have no problem filling their schedules with 35+ patients a day and howevermany procedures a week.

We're trying to help you, and I'm sorry you aren't willing to see that.

It's really no effort at all to respond to your posts. I'd be sitting here staring at my desktop during the time that I write these, anyway. I would, however, appreciate it if you'd stop telling me that you know how I think and why I do the things that I do. No, I have no desire to nor do I take any form of 'pleasure' in causing disagreements between women. Like I have said previously, that's simply your attempt to make it seem like there couldn't possibly be a woman who, of her own volition, doesn't agree with you. You just can't concieve of it.

If your "side" of the issue is filled with people (in this case, women) who are so naiive that they can't read for themselves and come up with their own conclusions; if they're so naiive that someone like me makes them outright believe one way or another about any situation (in this case the "emancipation of the female"), then you need to find some better posterpeople. I wouldn't want those people on my "side," anyway.

That's your problem, not mine. Life through a myopic looking-glass.

The main reason, in my opinion, that no OB on this board feels 'threatened' by you is this: when they wake up in the morning, they get dressed, go to work, do several procedures, and then go and see 40 patients. Most of whom they have a good working relationship with. Most of whom are happy to see the doctor; they chat a bit about life, share their concerns with their health, have an exam to ensure that they're doing fine, and then they're done. Forty people who are, for the most part, okay about being there, and are happy to get to see the doctor again. Then the doctor goes home, not to some dungeon with women chained to walls, but more likely to a loving home with a wife who he considers an equal, and a kid or two.

You may think that you're some huge influence on us by being inflamatory and that you are making us worry about 'losing our status as male OB/GYN,' but you're not. Male OBs are doing just fine, and a day at work wipes out pretty much everything you've said.

You, on the other hand, have to wake up with the same attitude you went to bed with--living in fear that you might need to go to a GYN, because you consider it rape. Doesn't sound like much of a way to live, to me. There are enough things to worry about (and far more important things) in the world without adding this to it.

So, yeah, no one here in the field is actually threatened by you in any way.
They're trying to help you. Apparently that isn't possible.

With that in mind: I'm sure you're a great person in real life, and I wish you all of the best.

 

[Sage880]

You need to redicule those other thinking women, to prevent other women from starting to think critically about these issues as well, because you have all the benefits to prevent women from becoming a strong unit and convince those who still believe your sexistic ideas about women, that this is the norm. Your status as a male ob/gyn is in danger and you know it. You wouldn't be spending so much energy otherwise on my postings.

Wow, I am actually sorry for you Ob/Gyn's that you have to read this kind of stuff. The fact that you can listen to this and not get pulled into a flame war is a real testament to what kind of people you are! I badly want to respond to this kind of stuff and I'm not even an Ob/Gyn!

It almost makes me a little angry to think of all the lives you've saved (and will save) during your lives and all the woman you've helped and then hear someone call you nothing better then a bunch of rapists and challenge your right to even be in your chosen profession.

Man, I even have a good family friend who is a male Ob/Gyn and he is such a professional I would feel embarrassed even showing him some of the stuff that is written on here. This male Ob/Gyn bashing stuff is almost as bad as the old "Are DO's even real doctors?" posts. It must be infuriating to have to read this kind of stuff. But, I guess your lives consist of helping people, saving the lives of babies, being part of the miracle of birth, and making good money for doing the job you love so I guess you get the last laugh!

 

[Oats]

Oetzi, you don't even know what the word 'paternalistic' means. It doesn't have anything to do with YOUR father.

paternalistic/paternalism is the attitude of people in authority that subordinates should be controlled in a fatherly way for their own good.

And please, don't feel so attacked when somebody gives her view on certain issues, if you don't accept it, it doesn't mean you have to get inflamed like this.

Try to react in a mature way, before you let your emotions run high, after all this is a discussion board.

Well is it any wonder WHY I assumed you were speaking of my father (paternal?)? With opinions as screwed up as yours, it made perfect sense to me that that was what you were insinuating. You know, us women being so "submissive" to men and all. I don't get inflammed just because I don't agree with somebody elses opinions. I get pissed with people like you who have already expressed their views over and over and over and over again, and continue to express them to people when they're no longer welcome. However, your views and opinions, as entitled as you may be to them, are without question some of THE most insulting that I have ever heard. Yet we have continued to try and explain what WE believe only to be told by you that we are "rapists" and "submissive" and "getting off" if, #1: you're a male OB/GYN #2: you're a woman who prefers/allows a male OB/GYN to examine us. You try real hard to dissect me. You tell me what I sub-consciously think and feel. Who the hell do you think you are? Do you know anything at all about me other than my screenname? Do you know anything at all about anybody else on here? No, Asherah, you don't. You have labeled every single male OB/GYN on the face of this earth, a rapist. What do you think of Catholics as a whole? Is EVERY priest a child molester? How about AIDS? Did they ALL get it because they are "dirty little homosexuals" or drug users? Does EVERY person that takes an anti-depressant belong in a straight jacket locked in a padded room? I don't think so. You cannot label an entire group of people. There are bad apples everywhere, in every community, in every profession. No exceptions. But we have never said otherwise. You have refused to discuss anything on this forum in an intelligent manner, and berate us for not agreeing with you. You have been asked time and time again what your experience and education consists of. We may not have "joked" about whatever they may be, but you refuse to back anything that you say up with any sort of credentials. Nobody else on here has kept theirs a secret. After all it's a student-doctor forum. But you have come in here with your views and COMPLETELY taken the topics off of where they should be. And that is education and friendship. So, until you are able to offer EITHER, please, take note... We have heard you. You have heard us. We do not agree on this subject whatsoever, and never will. There are students and doctors on here who would like to come and speak with each other about other, much more important subjects. Please have enough respect for them to do that and go elsewhere.

 

[Oats]

Oetzi, you don't even know what the word 'paternalistic' means. It doesn't have anything to do with YOUR father.

paternalistic/paternalism is the attitude of people in authority that subordinates should be controlled in a fatherly way for their own good.

And please, don't feel so attacked when somebody gives her view on certain issues, if you don't accept it, it doesn't mean you have to get inflamed like this.

Try to react in a mature way, before you let your emotions run high, after all this is a discussion board.

Asherah, you don't even know what the word 'rapist' means. It doesn't have anything to do with an OB/GYN.

rapist is defined as someone who forces another to have sexual intercourse.

www.webster-dictionary.org