Men's Interview Clothing #2

[FlowRate]

Alright, I will admit it. I did not go through all 16 pages, so I apologize if this was already answered...

What's wrong with a black suit?

Also, is a suit < absolutely > necessary? Cannot just deal with a decent button-down shirt and pants?

Men's warehouse is quoting me $1,500 for a custom tailored suit. Getting multiple suits would get really pricey...

What can I say, I am a freak of nature

From,
Abi

Black suits do not complement White men's complexions. (I don't know what nationality you are, doesn't matter). In fact, it doesn't complement any complexions. Furthermore, it's super serious and people in the hospital will laugh as you and the other 20 funeral processors walk past (happened at my interview last week, although we actually had a large number of grey and navy in that group).

Suit is absolutely necessary. Technically, you really only need wear the jacket during portions of the day when you meet with faculty. However, it was once said that a gentleman never* removes his jacket.

You can probably get a made-to-measure suit for $750-$1000. It will look great on you. I'm slightly doubtful that it's completely impossible to find your size. Have a tailor measure you and get back to us. (What's your chest size and waist size are the most important parts)

Until you get one of our resident fashion gurus to chime in I'll fill you in on what I've learned from them so far this interview season.

Nothing is "wrong" with a black suit. In fact, if you are attending a funeral or a formal event...black is the way to go! The reason many frown upon wearing a black suit to an interview is that it is considered too formal. That being said...you'll no doubt see a few black suits at your interviews. I think about 99% of the females at my interviews were wearing black, it was very somber (though at my last interview there was a girl wearing a navy pin...I was a big fan, looked sharp).

Not exactly sure why you starting talking about how much McDonald's you've eaten. I suppose it's to point out your belief that you have a rather unique body shape.

Well, regardless of how normal/abnormal your body...you MUST get your suits tailored. It's a must. Period. If you can buy a suit off the rack and it fits you perfectly...that's the exception, definitely not the rule (and even then I would bet that a professional tailor could improve its fit). You do not need to spend $1500 on a suit (though I would prefer 1 really good suit to 2 or 3 crappy ones).

Check out Jos A. Bank...they're having sales like they're going out of business. Their "traveler's" series of suits are tapered for people who have thinner waists. Get a suit that fits and then get it tailored. Hope this holds you over until a professional can chime in

This might be shocking, but a lot of girls really don't understand proper style, especially business style. That's why there's also a thread for women's interview clothing. Even then, their stuff is more difficult than ours--more subject to the whims of fashion.

Jos Bank sales are the norm. Any article for JAB is worth at most 50-60% off of its tag price. 70% off is usually a decent deal. Clearance (85% off) is what you should aim for if possible.

For suits, Jos A Bank is a good recommendation. For dudes with weird metrics, get a suit separate. I personally would not have it tailored in store. I have a tailor who runs a dry-cleaner. She does superb alterations for half the cost of getting it done in a department store.

Your whole suit + alterations does not need to cost you more than $250.

Yep. However, if you get it done at Jos Bank, they will have to redo it if they did it wrong, especially since there's a corporate overlord and a manager to talk to. Solo tailors can just say "meh"

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[LEUNIT]

I was the only one that wore gray in my interview group and got complements from both my interviewers. I'm cool.

 

[Torr]

This might be shocking, but a lot of girls really don't understand proper style, especially business style. That's why there's also a thread for women's interview clothing. Even then, their stuff is more difficult than ours--more subject to the whims of fashion.

I agree to some extent. I've seen more girls mess up the business "look" than guys. I think they're trying to balance out the masculinity of their suits by throwing in some sexy. One girl I interviewed with did a pretty bad job and you could see her bra through her shirt. Most of the panel members were men though so may not have minded so much?

Don't know if it really comes down to what you're wearing but if that were the case a lot more guys would get in than girls

 

[captainnerd]

Black suit is a bad investment.

If you're going to believe that the color of your suit (nor what you wear) doesn't matter, then go ahead and buy a black suit. But just remember that once you're in med school, med school is just a part of your life.

You may have to go to business meetings, events, parties, funerals, etc, that may require a suit. A black suit will be acceptable at one of those.

Black also doesn't match with much. Maybe white? Although the contrast of black with white is a bit stark and should be reserved for black and white tie events. Black with gray? Gray shirt isn't acceptable business attire.

Black with light pink?
Black with light business blue?

Think about it. Black is a horrible choice.

I would rather wear a medium to dark gray suit to a funeral than wear black.

 

[kmnguyen1124]

Do any of you guys have advice on how to dress for second look visits that ask for business casual attire?

 

[slatermd]

Ha Ha! Business. Casual.

The business casual standard for guys is "shirt and tie."

I personally rock a suit minus tie, because it looks a little bit less computer programmer:

If you are young and/or slightly nerdy, the programmer look can be to your advantage.

 

[FlowRate]

Ha Ha! Business. Casual.

The business casual standard for guys is "shirt and tie."

I personally rock a suit minus tie, because it looks a little bit less computer programmer:

If you are young and/or slightly nerdy, the programmer look can be to your advantage.

+1; The Jacket, or a sweater/sweater-vest (steer clear of suit vests, unless you're gay), can differentiate you from the middle school dance crowd.

 

[slatermd]

+1; The Jacket, or a sweater/sweater-vest (steer clear of suit vests, unless you're gay), can differentiate you from the middle school dance crowd.

serious lol to the suit vests.

V-neck sweater + suit can be quite hot (I mean aesthetically but it is also true with regard to body temp).

When done poorly it can also be hilarious.

 

[FlowRate]

serious lol to the suit vests.

V-neck sweater + suit can be quite hot (I mean aesthetically but it is also true with regard to body temp).

When done poorly it can also be hilarious.

Solid, complimenting colors, usually with a thin, light wool/cashmere is my preference for wear with a jacket. Heavier fabrics for when only using the sweater.

Some people call it the no-iron trick, because only your cuffs are showing

 

[duke2121]

I definitely want to wear argyle socks, penny loafers, nice pair of khaki dress pants, navy blue blazer, tattersall white/blue dress shirt with a a nice vineyard vines tie, probably nautical themed,...damn that already sounds good

 

[Steeler7588]

I definitely want to wear argyle socks, penny loafers, nice pair of khaki dress pants, navy blue blazer, tattersall white/blue dress shirt with a a nice vineyard vines tie, probably nautical themed,...damn that already sounds good

so frat

 

[captainnerd]

Ha Ha! Business. Casual.

The business casual standard for guys is "shirt and tie."

I personally rock a suit minus tie, because it looks a little bit less computer programmer:

If you are young and/or slightly nerdy, the programmer look can be to your advantage.

Suit minus tie is a no go unless the suit fits well. If not, it can/will look horrible. This looks best with lighter suits because it also looks like you're on vacation in the bahamas and that you're just dropping by to see how the operations are going/where your endowment is going towards.

Loafers, no. Sorry.

For casual, sweater with suit is alright. But take off the suit and you risk looking too contrived like it is planned.

No planning. No effort. And still look good. That's the key to looking smart.

For business cashual, go with a more playful pattern. I recommend gingham shirt in white/navy (smaller gingham squares are more formal, larger is more casual. Too large beyond a certain size, it is unacceptable). with light gray tie. Prince of wales plaid pants. No jacket. Roll up your sleeves.

 

[slatermd]

Just to clear my name, I said nothing about loafers.

If I'm giving advice, it goes without saying that the suit is tailored to high hell, whether you're wearing it with a tie or not.

Regarding your advice, most premeds should not risk trying to pull off any sort of boss persona; proceed with caution when dressing down a business casual invite.

Finally, the more handsome you are, the less crazy you need to get with patterns. Understated solid colors can be a powerful look on an attractive man.

 

[tabascosauce]

hello
just make sure it fits and is tailored. three button is ok. i would go with 2 buttons just cause its more mainstream. good luck on the interview.

 

[addo]

1 extra button is unlikely to get you rejected.

 

[CougarMD]

Merging with Men's Interview Clothing Thread

 

[gravitywave]

Going to have a interview soon, but I don't wanna come too fancy or not fancy enough.
I'm thinking of going to wear a 3 button suit with a white button with a red tie and some patent leather dress shoes ?
My main question is ya or nay with 3 button suit? Any other good tips about inteview attire??

you mean real patent leather, as in tuxedo shoes? no, do not wear those.

 

[drizzt3117]

I agree to some extent. I've seen more girls mess up the business "look" than guys. I think they're trying to balance out the masculinity of their suits by throwing in some sexy. One girl I interviewed with did a pretty bad job and you could see her bra through her shirt. Most of the panel members were men though so may not have minded so much?

Don't know if it really comes down to what you're wearing but if that were the case a lot more guys would get in than girls

Id tend to agree simply because men's business formal clothing is nearly impossible to mess up. Navy, charcoal, or dark medium grey suit, light blue or other pastel shirt, dark blue or red tie, black laceups. If you want to be fashion forward, brown shoes or white linen pocket square, pretty tough...

 

[captainnerd]

1 extra button is unlikely to get you rejected.

Depends on who/what is rejecting you. Admissions panel, maybe not. Getting passed over for the corner office? It is possible you don't deserve the corner office. People who deserve the corner office pay attention to details.

A hot young lass... I wouldn't risk the extra button. 2 buttons or 1 buttons. 3 roll 2. But never 3. And most definitely not 4.

Id tend to agree simply because men's business formal clothing is nearly impossible to mess up. Navy, charcoal, or dark medium grey suit, light blue or other pastel shirt, dark blue or red tie, black laceups. If you want to be fashion forward, brown shoes or white linen pocket square, pretty tough...

Are you kidding me? The girls look way better than guys. But that's because they can do whatever they want. You'd think with the strict rules in men's dress code, it'd be easy for guys. But guys are just stupid. It's like they have GPS but still get lost.

 

[FlowRate]

Depends on who/what is rejecting you. Admissions panel, maybe not. Getting passed over for the corner office? It is possible you don't deserve the corner office. People who deserve the corner office pay attention to details.

A hot young lass... I wouldn't risk the extra button. 2 buttons or 1 buttons. 3 roll 2. But never 3. And most definitely not 4.

Are you kidding me? The girls look way better than guys. But that's because they can do whatever they want. You'd think with the strict rules in men's dress code, it'd be easy for guys. But guys are just stupid. It's like they have GPS but still get lost.

I think you're both right. Men's clothing should be easy. But there's a lot of misinformation and bad clothes out there. Men need tutoring in color/pattern combination and fit more than which items constitute a suit.

 

[drizzt3117]

Are you kidding me? The girls look way better than guys. But that's because they can do whatever they want. You'd think with the strict rules in men's dress code, it'd be easy for guys. But guys are just stupid. It's like they have GPS but still get lost.

I'm not saying guys don't mess it up, just that it's easy. There are plenty of idiots out there.

 

[TOcho118]

Anyone looking to get a new interviewing suit should absolutely check out a company I used to work for, Astor and Black. They will make you a custom, Bespoke suit starting at $499. Although this is more than you will pay at your typical suit outlet, it will be absolutely worth it. A sales rep will come to YOU and help you customize every last detail of the suit. Plus it will fit you perfectly no matter your size/build (turn around time is approx. 4 weeks). Since working at Astor and Black, I have never come across a custom tailored suit of such quality for such a price. Oh and did I mention that hand-picked stitching, functioning buttonholes and Bemberg silk linings are standard on all garments (most companies charge extra).

Feel free to PM me if you would like more info...I can also put you in direct contact with a sales rep if you'd like...

 

[FlowRate]

Anyone looking to get a new interviewing suit should absolutely check out a company I used to work for, Astor and Black. They will make you a custom, Bespoke suit starting at $499. Although this is more than you will pay at your typical suit outlet, it will be absolutely worth it. A sales rep will come to YOU and help you customize every last detail of the suit. Plus it will fit you perfectly no matter your size/build (turn around time is approx. 4 weeks). Since working at Astor and Black, I have never come across a custom tailored suit of such quality for such a price. Oh and did I mention that hand-picked stitching, functioning buttonholes and Bemberg silk linings are standard on all garments (most companies charge extra).

Feel free to PM me if you would like more info...I can also put you in direct contact with a sales rep if you'd like...

That is actually really cool--I think I have heard of A&B before. When I find out where I'll be living over the summer, I may look into setting up an appointment. I wouldn't mind a truly well done suit, please PM me some more info!

 

[MilkIsGood]

Anyone looking to get a new interviewing suit should absolutely check out a company I used to work for, Astor and Black. They will make you a custom, Bespoke suit starting at $499. Although this is more than you will pay at your typical suit outlet, it will be absolutely worth it. A sales rep will come to YOU and help you customize every last detail of the suit. Plus it will fit you perfectly no matter your size/build (turn around time is approx. 4 weeks). Since working at Astor and Black, I have never come across a custom tailored suit of such quality for such a price. Oh and did I mention that hand-picked stitching, functioning buttonholes and Bemberg silk linings are standard on all garments (most companies charge extra).

Feel free to PM me if you would like more info...I can also put you in direct contact with a sales rep if you'd like...

i went to their website. i dont see anything starting at $499

 

[TOcho118]

i went to their website. i dont see anything starting at $499

You can pretty much bet that any high end fashion company is not going market it's lowest price point items on the front page of their site Trust me though, they exist. I have two A&B suits that I got for $499 each and they are impeccable.

 

[KickedOut]

Can a cardigan be worn as business casual? Thought about wearing slacks, simple pattern button-down, tie, and cardigan. I thought the tie might be too much, but I don't think I'd want to wear the cardigan without one.

Input?

 

[FlowRate]

Can a cardigan be worn as business casual? Thought about wearing slacks, simple pattern button-down, tie, and cardigan. I thought the tie might be too much, but I don't think I'd want to wear the cardigan without one.

Input?

Yeah, if they all fit and look good, that's a perfectly fine business casual look. Make sure you wear nice shoes.

 

[captainnerd]

So in the interest of educating people who are in the market for interview clothing, I just want to make very clear that you should do your research.

This Astor and Black former sales rep is trying to shill his wares and has been PMming me trying to get me to buy his stuff. Well, it is pissing me off.

Through his PMs, it appears he has very little understanding of style.

Secondly, their business practices are laughable. On StyleForum, someone mentioned that they had a horrible experience with Astor and Black. The Astor and Black representative went on StyleForum and completely listed the guy's purchase history. Another mentioned that his two pockets were off by more than 2 centimeters in height.

Their sales representatives who measure you are not trained tailors or cutters and have so little experience, it is not hard to imagine why so many people find Astor and Black a laughing stock.

Astor and Black is a fictitious name. There is no Mr. Astor and no Mr. Black. The company is based in China and the names are there to make it appear as if the company has a history in England. This is the kind of marketing ploy Italians are known for.

They have partnered with companies like Bentley and Peugeot to market to a clientele that is rich and uneducated. They are seen in the pages of GQ and Esquire.

Also, from what I've seen of their clientele, it is usually young flashy folks. Either they love flashy pinstripes or flashy pinstripes is all Astor and Black carry.

Unfortunately, those who know better don't go anywhere near them.

As for the $499 suit, their suits average around $1,400 for what is considered a good fabric, something like Scabal or an equivalent. For $499, you'll probably get some slick ****.

The biggest complaint I've heard: suits fit like crap. Probably not the fault of the cutters and seamstresses in China. It is most likely the fault of really, really, really inept sales reps who aren't taking proper measurements.

At a good firm, the head cutter will also measure you. Cutters tend to work their way up from shirt-makers, to pants-makers, to seamstresses (or seam-men?), to finishers, etc ad nauseum. Therefore, a good cutter knows what he is measuring because he knows how the measurements will be used in each of the processes.

The sales reps at Astor and Black have no experience in any of this. They are not mercers or drapers. They don't sew or cut. They have very little training.

Anyone looking to get a new interviewing suit should absolutely check out a company I used to work for, Astor and Black. They will make you a custom, Bespoke suit starting at $499. Although this is more than you will pay at your typical suit outlet, it will be absolutely worth it. A sales rep will come to YOU and help you customize every last detail of the suit. Plus it will fit you perfectly no matter your size/build (turn around time is approx. 4 weeks). Since working at Astor and Black, I have never come across a custom tailored suit of such quality for such a price. Oh and did I mention that hand-picked stitching, functioning buttonholes and Bemberg silk linings are standard on all garments (most companies charge extra).

Feel free to PM me if you would like more info...I can also put you in direct contact with a sales rep if you'd like...

If a company claims they are bespoke but charge you extra for hand-picking, functioning buttonholes and bemberg lining, they are not bespoke. Bad-mouthing other bespoke companies for something they generally don't do just goes to show what little understanding Astor and Black associates have.

Most bespoke firms never charge for hand-pick stitching, functioning buttonholes, and the Bemberg is a commodity even at Mervyn's.

This is why I rarely recommend a particular company.

In the case of Astor and Black, their marketing is slick. Very slick. They even have a price point that fools customers into thinking they're paying top dollar. $1,400 is not cheap. So you think they must be good. Problem is, the people who get fooled into buying them, got fooled into the process of suit fittings ("OoooOOooh, a sales associate actually meets me at my home!?!?! Wow, this is top notch service"). They're simply unaware that they look crappy. They just like getting the individualized measurements.

And lets face it. Most Americans simply don't know when they look like crap. Or they reach a certain threshold of decent-ness and they upgrade their impressions to "spectacular".

To sum it all up, Astor and Black are marketing geniuses. They manipulate psychology and prey on the ignorant.

Caveat emptor. And stop learning stuff from the internets from random strangers.

EDIT: So I just found a blog of an Astor and Black sales associate. And he has photos of clients' fit pics. Some of it is alright. Some of it is absolutely atrocious. If I didn't have exams to study for, I would post them.

Okay, here's a tease:

Someone tell me what is wrong with this pic.

 

[captainnerd]

Just so you don't think I'm biased, here's the blog: http://milanoandco.blogspot.com/

You can peruse it yourself and see if you like anything.


Maybe he learned from his past mistakes and overcompensated a bit too much (the sales associate is on the left with his pants too long, all in black, the client on the right):

And apparently, people who enjoy Astor and Black also enjoy chains.

So far, the only one I like (even if it looks like the jacket waist is too small for the shoulders which is slightly too big and sleeves are slightly long. Also, the very prominent pick-stitching is awful, another "look at me" marketing thing. Bespoke can't possibly be this wrong):

 

[FearAndInsomnia]

Someone tell me what is wrong with this pic.

Sleeve length is an obvious issue. Shoulders look off. Buttons and pockets are horrible (at least I think so.)

 

[FlowRate]

Once I heard "makes suits for professional sports players" and checked the website, which noted that the "pocket squares" are "built in" and "matched to the lining" I noticed what was up. Oh well. Mytailor.com is probably a much better resource.

The sleeves look like one of my suits, which I tried to have fixed. But the tailors in this town are hit or miss. I can't wait till I move somewhere with decent tailors.

 

[rhcarolina]

I wore a bowtie to my interviews, mainly because I have always worn them and feel more comfortable in one. Other applicants at the interviews have commented that a bowtie was a bold choice. Have any of you guys ever choose the bowtie?

 

[captainnerd]

I wore a bowtie to my interviews, mainly because I have always worn them and feel more comfortable in one. Other applicants at the interviews have commented that a bowtie was a bold choice. Have any of you guys ever choose the bowtie?

Bowties are not recommended for interviews. It says you march to your own beat. Which also means that instead of removing a kidney like planned, you're gonna go ahead and do a vasectomy while you're at it cause you think the patient looks like a real piece of work.

I actually like the bowtie but for other events.

Now that I'm more awake than when I posted that rant on Astor and Black, I realize it is probably not good business to post photos of your clients' faces. Just completely wrong. And probably just pure ignorance about proper fit that would make you post every single piece of work instead of posting only your best results. Or maybe he thinks these are his best results because he simply doesn't have any idea how a suit should fit.

 

[TOcho118]

"So in the interest of educating people who are in the market for interview clothing, I just want to make very clear that you should do your research.
This Astor and Black former sales rep is trying to shill his wares and has been PMming me trying to get me to buy his stuff. Well, it is pissing me off.
Through his PMs, it appears he has very little understanding of style."

2 things. First, I am not trying to "sell" anything to anyone. Secondly, I was never a sales rep at A&B. I currently have ZERO vested interest in this company. I simply had a good experience with this company and I know many other people who have felt the same way. This is a blog about men's interviewing suits and all I did was post about what I perceived to be beneficial information to all those interested. Say what you want about the company, you are entitled to your opinion. But for you to publicly call me out just shows how much of a complete d-bag you really are. You are not the ultimate authority on fashion and anyone can find articles/blogs/pictures to back up their opinions on the internet these days.

And to you, nerd, I wrote you saying that "i see that you're interested in men's fashion. I know of this company A&B...you should check it out." Sound like a sales pitch anyone? I think not. Simply me trying to be friendly and share with you some information about a company I thought you would like. Yet for some reason you feel the need to go on a rant. What is wrong with you?

 

[sgtbrushes]

What is wrong with you?

I drive too fast.

 

[LEUNIT]

What is wrong with you?

I pay too much rent.

 

[gravitywave]

What is wrong with you?

I care too much.

 

[SilentSoldier]

I've got this rocking blue suit that's is pretty much like the colors of this forum and I love it. Don't think its med school interview material though, although I'm pretty sure I'd stand out.

 

[captainnerd]

2 things. First, I am not trying to "sell" anything to anyone. Secondly, I was never a sales rep at A&B. I currently have ZERO vested interest in this company. I simply had a good experience with this company and I know many other people who have felt the same way. This is a blog about men's interviewing suits and all I did was post about what I perceived to be beneficial information to all those interested. Say what you want about the company, you are entitled to your opinion. But for you to publicly call me out just shows how much of a complete d-bag you really are. You are not the ultimate authority on fashion and anyone can find articles/blogs/pictures to back up their opinions on the internet these days.

And to you, nerd, I wrote you saying that "i see that you're interested in men's fashion. I know of this company A&B...you should check it out." Sound like a sales pitch anyone? I think not. Simply me trying to be friendly and share with you some information about a company I thought you would like. Yet for some reason you feel the need to go on a rant. What is wrong with you?

Okay, you win. I will go buy some. Thanks.

 

[Obliquity]

For what it's worth I did a little experiment... I wore the same charcoal suit/white shirt combo, but used two different ties during my interview cycle. Tie A (more conservative) had a medium-sized-diamond pattern on it with a muted green and silver. Tie B (much less conservative) was of the Jerry Garcia line, with bright yellows, reds, blues, and greens, with random swooshes of color.

I got many comments (all positive), both from fellow interviews and adcom members, about Tie B. And the main point of the experiment: each produced multiple acceptances along with 1 waitlist each. Therefore, my conclusion is that you cannot go wrong by standing out with a bright, snappy tie.

 

[TOcho118]

Soo...at my last interview, some guy wore his formal army uniform. Looked something like this guy but in gray:

Thoughts captain?

 

[FlowRate]

Soo...at my last interview, some guy wore his formal army uniform. Looked something like this guy but in gray:

Thoughts captain?

It's pretty standard military protocol. Most military uniforms are well cut and properly tailored. Can't go wrong with that. Dunno about wearing the formal/full dress instead of the standard dress, however. That's a little strange.

 

[captainnerd]

It's pretty standard military protocol. Most military uniforms are well cut and properly tailored. Can't go wrong with that. Dunno about wearing the formal/full dress instead of the standard dress, however. That's a little strange.

I understand some people are gonna try to play the "patriot" card. It's an easy way of using attire/uniform to produce a psychological effect on the admissions board. Nothing wrong with it just like there's nothing wrong with using the "money" card or the "old money" card by wearing a three piece suit or bold pinstripes.

But if you're gonna play that card, you accept the fact that the card brings with it all the other stereotypes that the military brings.

I think it is okay to list military service. But don't let it define you.

 

[rHinO1]

I understand some people are gonna try to play the "patriot" card. It's an easy way of using attire/uniform to produce a psychological effect on the admissions board. Nothing wrong with it just like there's nothing wrong with using the "money" card or the "old money" card by wearing a three piece suit or bold pinstripes.

But if you're gonna play that card, you accept the fact that the card brings with it all the other stereotypes that the military brings.

I think it is okay to list military service. But don't let it define you.

I would love for you to expand upon this, please.

 

[BushidoBrown]

Soo...at my last interview, some guy wore his formal army uniform. Looked something like this guy but in gray:

Thoughts captain?

TBH wearing the mess uniform (the one pictured) is usually reserved for formal dinners and black/white tie events. Essentially it was the equivalent of the guy wearing a tuxedo to the interview.

I believe it's perfectly acceptable to wear your uniform to an interview, as long as its just the 'regular' service uniform, which includes a more traditional coat and tie. However, I would go expecting for them to ask questions about your military service, including WHY you decided to wear your uniform to the interview.

 

[OSU2015]

I would love for you to expand upon this, please.

+1,000,000

I understand some people are gonna try to play the "patriot" card. It's an easy way of using attire/uniform to produce a psychological effect on the admissions board. Nothing wrong with it just like there's nothing wrong with using the "money" card or the "old money" card by wearing a three piece suit or bold pinstripes.

But if you're gonna play that card, you accept the fact that the card brings with it all the other stereotypes that the military brings.

I think it is okay to list military service. But don't let it define you.

I never like to chime in on things like this, but I was caught rather off guard by this post...I usually like your (and FlowRate's) comments on fashion-related things. I know you said some people are going to play the patriot card, but you make it seem as if most people who wear their uniform to an interview have some subversive intention of producing some psychological effect.

I think it's rather common for military individuals to wear their uniform when they are not required. Go to a place of worship during the holidays. I am sure that you'll see at least one military uniform in attendance, probably someone who hasn't been home in over a year. When I was active duty, I had lots of friends get married. Some went the traditional route, but most elected for military weddings (i.e., wearing their uniform during the service). I don't think anyone in either of these examples was trying to produce some "psychological effect" on the parishioners or the wedding attendees. I know, when asked, LizzyM recommended that an individual wear their uniform. Plus military uniforms look pretty sharp, something I'd think that you'd appreciate.

Now, the person who posted the picture has no knowledge of the military. He said the uniform "Looked something like this guy but in gray". The only gray uniforms that I'm aware of are Army cadets (i.e., West Point). Some one feel free to correct me. Now, if this guy wore his mess dress I'd chalk that up to "cluelessness" long before "playing some card". Granted, you said it was perfectly fine for an individual to play that card, but I'm suggesting that it's most likely not the reason they wore their uniform. I'll concede that at least one person has worn their uniform to interviews because they think it may give them some advantage, but they have earned the right to make that decision.

I listed my military service on AMCAS and, I have to admit, it was pretty tough to overcome "all the other stereotypes that the military brings." All my interviewers just "expected" me to be a hard-worker, have integrity, strive for excellence in everything I attempt, and be a distinguished leader with excellent communication skills.

 

[captainnerd]

+1,000,000



I never like to chime in on things like this, but I was caught rather off guard by this post...I usually like your (and FlowRate's) comments on fashion-related things. I know you said some people are going to play the patriot card, but you make it seem as if most people who wear their uniform to an interview have some subversive intention of producing some psychological effect.

I think it's rather common for military individuals to wear their uniform when they are not required. Go to a place of worship during the holidays. I am sure that you'll see at least one military uniform in attendance, probably someone who hasn't been home in over a year. When I was active duty, I had lots of friends get married. Some went the traditional route, but most elected for military weddings (i.e., wearing their uniform during the service). I don't think anyone in either of these examples was trying to produce some "psychological effect" on the parishioners or the wedding attendees. I know, when asked, LizzyM recommended that an individual wear their uniform. Plus military uniforms look pretty sharp, something I'd think that you'd appreciate.

Now, the person who posted the picture has no knowledge of the military. He said the uniform "Looked something like this guy but in gray". The only gray uniforms that I'm aware of are Army cadets (i.e., West Point). Some one feel free to correct me. Now, if this guy wore his mess dress I'd chalk that up to "cluelessness" long before "playing some card". Granted, you said it was perfectly fine for an individual to play that card, but I'm suggesting that it's most likely not the reason they wore their uniform. I'll concede that at least one person has worn their uniform to interviews because they think it may give them some advantage, but they have earned the right to make that decision.

I listed my military service on AMCAS and, I have to admit, it was pretty tough to overcome "all the other stereotypes that the military brings." All my interviewers just "expected" me to be a hard-worker, have integrity, strive for excellence in everything I attempt, and be a distinguished leader with excellent communication skills.

You better be damned sure that's what the general stereotype is before you decide to go with your military uniform. If you want to have an adult conversation about the ethics of stereotyping, we can do that. But like it or not, they exists and not all of them are the typical ra-ra bulls#it news networks tend to cover.

The military does produce discipline and hard work. But so does so many other things.

We had a guy interview in his uniform. I wasn't there but from what my friend told me (who was there), one of the professors asked him why he decided to wear the uniform. In fact, it was the first topic breached. The guy said it was something that defined him. The professor asked him what he meant by that.

He gave the typical ra-ra answer of serving his country. I don't have the entire transcript of what happened, but the guy was asked some very tough questions about the philosophy of military service and was unable to answer them very well. I think he went in thinking that if he defined him as a "patriot" it would help his chances. The only problem is that he was a grunt and he was talking to some very intelligent civilians who may view the military in a different light. He spent time in Afghanistan and later Iraq. I think it also didn't help that those are both unpopular wars.

The moment they saw him in his military uniform, the interview took a military turn for the worse. My friend told me he tried to ask questions about optometry but the applicant kept talking about how in the military this and in the military that, in the military we all get Lasik and ugly glasses, and blah blah.

In the end, the kid still had a military mindset. He wasn't ready for civilian life. He was denied.

THe way our admissions work is that if you meet a certain numerical algorithm based on test scores and GPA, you're automatically granted an interview and the interview is a yes/no based only on the interview. Pass the interview and you're in.

The kid was smart enough. He just wasn't the right fit.

In the complexity of all that is reality, how do I know he wasn't the right fit? How does anyone know? He probably could have done very well here. The answers he gave could have worked well in some other country that had a military optometry school (if one exists). If the school was military based, he would have been a perfect fit. The military defined him after all.

In the end, the military defined the applicant. And for some reason, the members of the panel on that day rejected him. Call it stereotyping if you want, call it poor understanding of the military by applicant/panel if you want. But in the end, you're talking politics. And that's a loaded gun.

I have a professor who took the military scholarship. He has very bad things to say about it. Maybe it was because he was a civilian who went to four years of prestigious Ivy League university followed by 4 more years of opto school and then was thrown into the military world. Who knows why he didn't enjoy it? All I know is that during lectures, he talks crap about his enlisted times of his life.

The civilian world doesn't understand the military world. For better or for worse.

I'll end there.

If you want to discuss military stereotypes, I can do that. Just understand that the Ra-Ra will be balanced by the No-No.

 

[captainnerd]

The above is a rant on stereotyping. Here's my advice on military uniforms:

If you're an officer and have leadership duties in the military, you're intelligent and capable of discussing the pros and cons of military philosophy (volunteer military vs mandatory conscription, a military based economy, etc, etc), then go ahead and wear your uniform. Express an interest in taking medicine back onto the battlefield (even if it is a lie).

If you're a grunt who entered the military out of high school because it was the "logical route" &#8212;as is the majority of military enlistments&#8212; then wear a suit. It'll be a good sign you've transitioned to the civilian world quite nicely. List your military service, but wear a suit. And talk about your time in college and jobs. Discuss your interest in medicine/optometry/nursing.

Do not mention the time you got drunk/high with your buddies. Or the time you gutted a goat in the deserts of Mesopotamia because you were starving, regardless of your military status of PFC, captain, officer, etc.

Serve your country and do it quietly.

 

[rHinO1]

Captainnerd, just stfu bro, and stick to the world of internet fashion advice. Oh, and cool story/anecdote . The truth is the military demands a level of discipline and teamwork not seen in the civilian world. The people who serve in the military deserve our respect and appreciation, regardless of our country's current politics/foreign policy.

You can rationalize your beliefs all you want, but they are truly ignorant.

Edit: Also, your words diminish and insult generations of people who have done more for all of us than you could ever hope to do.

 

[FlowRate]

Captainnerd, that was a very well reasoned response. In fact, I'd agree with all of it. My family has a very heavy military background and I would say the majority of what you just said is true... I would add one other thing; a potential health student has to be able to reconcile the fact that the military is expressly a violent organization with the idea that a physician (or other allied health person) is supposed to "do no harm" and what not.